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Help Me Please x 7- the continuation
January 11, 2002
11:58 am
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gingerleigh
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Is it possible? Well, anything is possible... just not probable *grin* Seriously, no two people have the same relationship agenda or speed. Someone is always more head over heels prone than the other.

The problem with "dating" is that there are very few women who honestly view dating as simply a date, not an interview. I have to be honest here. Those people are out there, but I don't think that this is the general tendency, especially in women between the ages of 35 and 50. I don't know if it's biological or social conditioning, but nevertheless I see it every day.

So Randy, since I do like and respect you from what I read on these threads, may I pose some odd questions to you... what do you want to get out of dating? The social companion you say... so why does it have to be a woman? Is it to leave things open to the possibility of physical intimacy? Is it to leave things open to the possibility of building a relationship? If it is simply to go out and do things with someone, then why not a male friend?

You say that you aren't leading her on verbally, and I believe you whole-heartedly. Are there non-verbal signals that you are sending? Special glances, touches? Could she (and other women) be misinterpreting you? Think of the scenario where a man thinks that a woman wants sex, where "her lips say no no no, but her eyes say yes yes yes!" Is your body language saying something different than what your mouth says?

And, I'm sure you are aware of this, but as soon as physical intimacy enters the picture, you've pretty much blown the entire "I don't want a relationship" facade with a woman. You may still not want one, but physical intimacy can give her hope that the possibility for a relationship exists if only she can keep you satisfied.

Just one viewpoint from your resident recovering codependent. 🙂

January 11, 2002
12:45 pm
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Ladeska
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And a good perspective from Gingerleigh, something to think about. We are such strange little creatures, aren't we? (smile) Yep, have to check in every now and then and go - okay, lemme turn it up this way and stand on my head and at this angle - DID I DO THAT?

January 11, 2002
12:45 pm
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Ladeska
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And a good perspective from Gingerleigh, something to think about. We are such strange little creatures, aren't we? (smile) Yep, have to check in every now and then and go - okay, lemme turn it up this way and stand on my head and at this angle - DID I DO THAT?

January 11, 2002
12:51 pm
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Ladeska
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DANG IT, double post and hit send to fast to boot. Oh well, don't need to write much anyways, no novellas today maybe!! (grin) Yup, you go, Randy, give it to her straight.

The only other thing I would add to the mix here is that - so many times we get screwed up in the head when we do something like - "I tell them where I am, what I want, blah, blah"...and they still do so and so...

I think what we do here is we "assume" they have the same code as we do about things, when in all reality - when we speak something like this - you may be talking to a person that doesn't have that same code at all, so you may say it and they may hear it - but to them - it may not matter.

Can't tell you how many times I've been so upset at someone because I was trying them in the jury room of my own moral code about things. Telling them this and that and expecting them to adhere to the same guidelines in their conscience, etc. And much to my surprise, people don't often do that. But, the problem is - I should realize that up front when I'm spouting or when I'm expecting and assuming that "they are with me" because I have spoken whatever and they have smiled and nodded...

This is the point in the road where we have to know - right up front - I'm dealing with someone I don't know here - at all really, at least not intimately, so I will speak, project whatever and assume nothing on their part, but be ready to defend my boundaries at all times when they cross them with signs of "other than" what I have stated I need. Too many times we just assume incorrectly that they are "on board" with us, when in all reality - they lied their head off to us, didn't want to spook us off.

January 11, 2002
1:58 pm
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Molly
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I still don't think you should go in person, its going to be a drama scene. Since there is no implication by you, so you say, and haven't responded to gl's words of wisdom, why after only one date do you feel the need to personally deliver the message ? don't worry about her pain or dissapointment, she created this, its not the first time. Yea people who are ex addicts are impatient, but in my experience most of the underlying causes of addiction, or alcoholism is co-dependency, and for some reason that gets over looked in the recovery process thus the dry drunk syndrome. I understand the need for companionship, and especially that thrust of lust, that damn, just like 16 feeling you must have gotten on your visit, that she picked up on, but know experienced, and believe, that inner journey that alone time is so important. I say, screw the drive, go to the sports bar, have a few cold ones and watch sports, aren't the Lakers playing ?

January 11, 2002
4:53 pm
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ranmar
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First off to Gingerleigh. I have male friends I go out with, it's just not the same perspective you get on life. Some of the male friends are on a booty hunt, slam bam, thank you mam. Unfortunately, my best male friend is currently on the prowl, with what seems like a scorecard. It's nice to be able to go out to a nice restaurant and just kick back and enjoy the company of a nice woman, who wants to do the same. I know it's awkward to go into a place by yourself, although, with all the traveling I do, I'm quite use to it. But nevertheless, I sit there by myself in a booth, stare around the dining room, and make small talk with the waiter, while everyone else looks at you wondering what the deal is.
As far as woman in my age category, surely there must be some out there that have no ulterior motive, other than to be able to try new places with a friend of the opposite sex.
I won't fool myself here, yes, if I met someone I was attracted to, I'd probably enjoy it that much more, and hopefully they would feel the same. AS far as non verbal messages, versus true intent, I can't be concerned too much about how the other person is interpreting what I am putting out there. I've been honest with them, expressed myself, and pretty much drawn a clear picture verbally of where I am at. How they recieve that message, and then interpret it is beyond my control, such as with Ms. Pushy. I don't need easy sex, or meaningless gestures. Nice when young, but hell, I'm 48 and not a kid anymore. My counselor says I may be setting my standards too high, and unachievable by anyone......Maybe....and maybe that's the answer, nobody may fill the void, if indeed there is a true void. For now, I can do this on my own, but again, it would be nice to have a non threatening relationship too.
By the way, it's beautiful today here in Dallas, probably mid 70s.
Randy

January 11, 2002
5:24 pm
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gingerleigh
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Just to make sure that you understand what I mean, I'm not saying that you have to worry about how other people might interpret you. Like you said, that's their responsibility, to interpret. *But* it *is* in your best interest to be aware of all the messages you send, both verbally and physically. I heard somewhere that the messages we send are only 20% verbal, and 80% physical. (Why do you think companies waste so much money on flying people to division meetings rather than just doing everything via conference call?)

Let me use an example from a book, "Dark Side of the Light Chasers". The writer conducts seminars, and during one of them, an attendee got to get up to give a presentation about her hopes and dreams in life. (The presentations were video-taped.) During her presentation, what she was saying verbally was that she wanted to help people through counseling, and actually outlined her business plan for making her dreams a reality. All of it was very compelling, *verbally*. When she finished, she got feedback from the audience. No one really heard or cared about the verbal message she delivered. All of the men in the audience were thinking that they'd like to go out with a drink for her later, and all the women in the audience were extremely threatened by her. She was absolutely shocked. Why? So she watched the video tape with the rest of the audience... while she was giving her compelling argument as to how she wanted to help people who were in emotional pain, her body langauge was saying that she wanted to "get it on". Her body would sway to and fro continuously, sensually, she would tuck her hair back behind her ear, purse her lips slowly, allow her hand to linger on her hips... she was showing off her (rather attractive) body, and nonverbally advertising that she was looking for a mate. She had NO idea she was doing this.

I'm not saying that you should video-tape yourself Randy, but just be aware of the vibrations you project to the world. Like the woman in the example above who is unknowingly casting out "take me home" vibes, you might be unknowingly casting out "take me home to mother" vibes.

And I must second Molly's opinion on not doing your confrontation in person. Being a woman, I know all of the tricks that she might play to get you to change your mind... she *will* play on your sympathies if she is as pushy as you say. And although I know you're a strong guy, you are also good-hearted and very reluctant to hurt another person's feelings. It's much easier to hang up a phone than it is to walk out a door and drive away.

Good luck, take care of yourself this weekend.

January 11, 2002
5:50 pm
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Ladeska
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God, life gets so friggin' complicated sometimes, doesn't it? I sit here and look at all this and where we've all been, come from and sometimes - it's just gets LOUD, doesn't it? It's like Geez, Louise, why does being grown-up have to have so many bells and whistles attached to it? Can't people just "hang"? And do it with respect? I know, I know, what was I thinking, Er-duh!!!?

Yeah, a nice companion of the opposite sex is nice when you're used to the other stuff with friends and the scorecard business...boring... Kinda funny at times, interesting to watch and then it's like - Oh shut the hell up and go get laid, will ya? You're worse than a chihuahua looking for a bare leg to hump!!! (did I say that?)

It's 82 degrees in sunny so. callie and spring has sprung! It's about time for me to go get into massive Trouble! (he-he) Quittin' time!!! Go have fun, Randy, take it EZ and just let the women "want you", 'kay? Be Aloof and Drive em Crazy, Babee! (smile)

January 11, 2002
11:05 pm
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ranmar
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Ladeska, I love your style. I don't want the chihuhua, (hate the little biches anyways)humping mentality. I just want sincerity, honesty and fun. Gingerleigh, I read Debbie Ford's book too. I also read her book, Spiritual Divorce, which was fantastic. It actually got me through some pretty rough times early on, as I know you followed and helped me through as well. I am going to the desert. We plan on going out to dinner, and at that time, I 'm going to tell Valerie that this isn't something I want or can handle right now. I need my own time for now, not another situation to deal with. I am going to be honest enough to tell her that we need to back away from each other for now, and allow me to figure out my direction. She has already figured hers out. I need to do this in person, and not hide from her by just making a phone call. I am so insistent on doing this the right way, and moving away from a situation that I contributed to. If after that, she continues, then in my mind, I know I've done all the right things, and I will be justified in ignoring any future calls or whatever. But for now, I have to do this.
Oh, what a weird life we live. First, the ex doesn't pay any attention to me, but takes care of herself, and now, Valerie pays way too much attention to me, and smothers, causing this uncomfortable situation to be.
Ah, Ladeska, to be back in Sunny So.Cal. I'm in Laguna Niguel, and missing it every time I look out a hotel window. However, everytime I look out the hotel window, I count my lucky stars that I am able to travel, work and get paid an okay amount for doing so, and still be able to have my daughters all to myself at least every other week. I truly am one lucky dude..................
Off into the wild blue yonder tomorrow, and then out to the desert to confront the sex/ committed maniac..............Where's the bullhorn, the whips and the chains.....to beat her away..........
Randy

January 13, 2002
11:34 pm
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ranmar1
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Success!!!!!!!!!!!I'm back from my travels, and I have done what I said I was going to do with Ms. Pushy. I got out there, we went to dinner, where I was going to tell her to back off or good bye. Couldn't though, too noisy in restaurant. Came back and fell asleep........Left in the morning, and then she called 10 minutes after I left. I was pretty distant when I was there, and she knew I wanted to talk, so we had scheduled it for a phone call tomorrow. However, she called me 10 minutes after leaving, and told me she thought I was going to "dump" her that night. She said she knows we enjoyed each others company, and she could tell by me emails, that I was backing away because of her planning and her agenda. She said she knows she made a mistake, and was so caught up in the excitement, and to please not make any drastic or quick decisions is leaving her behind. I responded by telling her that I was nowhere where she was, and I am still working my way through everything, as I had been telling her all along, and that if she couldn't handle that, and needed more, with all her planning and the "future together", I would have to cut it off now. She said she would be willing to accept our "relationship" at what ever degree I was wanting it to be for now, and that she would not be calling three times a day anymore, and expect me to go out with others or nobody, but to just allow me to work through where I want to go with all this. I think her agenda got shot out of the water, and mine got placed back in the water.........even if it is a bluff, I still was honest, up front and precise as possible, as I thought I was all along. Meanwhile, wacko calls me today, to tell me about some trivia with the girls, which could have waited. Yeah, her way of keeping herself there..........I'm just going to continue to sit back and see where everything lands......I'm in no hurry for anything, and not wanting anything. This episode with Ms. Pushy was actually intimidating to me, and something I certainly don't need in my life...................hoooorayyyyy.
Have a great week, everyone......I'm home for four days, then up to San Francisco for a trade show on Thurs, back Sunday............
Randy

January 14, 2002
11:44 am
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Ladeska
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Good for you! Sounds like it all worked out the way it needs to be for now and time will tell, it always does.... Saying something and doing it - is most often - two different things and Ms. Pushy will have to prove her words now. Sound be interesting. (smile)

I really think that along the path of "knowing yourself" realizing your own needs, your individuality, and maybe listening to yourself closely for the first time ever - along with that naturally comes a sort of protective force field. As if saying - hey, back up, I've got something valuable here that has to be protected so Back away from the Dude! (or Dudette as the case may be) But, it just happens.

All of a sudden you're not following some cookie cutter path just because that's the way you should go because everyone else is and because someone else is pulling you along or you're being driven by your hormones. You walk the road less travelled because it has "your name" on it, no one else's. And the more you get into it - the more you really don't care if someone understands or not - because their approval isn't necessary for you anymore.

As I often say - for some people to approve of me is an insult anyways! (chuckle) Is true though. And, what you will also find is - great light attracts great darkness. Is an envy kind of thing and an equation in this life that is tried and true. One thing that disturbs me greatly, whether it is in our families, our schools, our churches, wherever - we are not taught that if you are do to good in this world - you'd better learn how to be a warrior, at the same time because just as sure as you stand for what is right - you are going to get the ugliest ugly aimed right at you - just because of that.

Envy is an ugly thing and we should never under estimate it's ability to destroy us when generating from ourselves or being aimed at us. But, what is dying.....hate's life. Hate's liveliness, hates laughter, hates innocence, hates truth, hates honor, hates courage, hates wisdom, etc., etc. What we do not teach is how to protect that, how to anticipate the enemy of your life in whatever form as it approaches you and how to defend against it. Our ego, instead, most often takes over and dictates to us a false belief that we can walk through the forest - unarmed, untrained as a soldier of life. Very big mistake. We don't teach our children this and we gravely endanger them. Just because you do good, doesn't mean - you become less attentive to the scent in the wind, or the rattle in the bushes. In fact, you become "more aware" because what you protect is very valuable and the wolves that will come your way and infiltrate your life - are dressed to the nines - with sheepskin.

I'm sure you understand my drift here.....while you grow in personhood here, just be aware of your need to protect it. Carry a tool in one hand and a weapon in the other. Just like the book of Nehemiah teaches.

January 14, 2002
4:56 pm
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ranmar1
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Ladeska,
This experience was a real eye opener. To allow someone to push their personal agenda on to another, and then think it is okay, is absurd. It's ashame we have to go through life, with a guard up, protecting ourselves from the selfishness of others. But, I guess for self survival, if we don't, we will get swept away by the currents of someone elses actions and wants..........Thank you once again for sticking with me through this one.......You are right, time will tell. So far, no phone call today....Usually three calls a day......maybe the message got through...
Okay, so is it time to start a new thread, x 8 the continuation?
Let me know.........Randy

January 14, 2002
5:16 pm
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mari
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Start a new one Randy. This one is quite long now.

January 14, 2002
6:28 pm
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ranmar1
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Okay guys, we are off to a new thread here. Thanks for joining me from Help Me Please x 7 the continuation.......please go to:
Help Me Please x8-the continuation
Thanks.
Randy

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