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Help Me Please x 3
May 9, 2001
7:18 pm
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gingerleigh
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I'm in Seattle Molly, I could have delivered your message personally!

May 9, 2001
7:48 pm
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Molly
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Sure you most likely wanted to get in line. he he

May 9, 2001
8:37 pm
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Alena
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Yeah, okay Gingerleigh, take a number.... šŸ™‚

May 11, 2001
10:42 pm
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ranmar
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Gingerleigh, Molly and Alena,
Well, I'm down in Portland tonight, ending a week of travel. Here I am, Mr. Swinger, sitting in my hotel room at 7:40 Friday night. What an exciting life this is....Anyways, you guys keep me going (and laughing at times..thanks). My "wife" went to her counselor yesterday, with the following feedback she gave me. She said her counselor told her she expected everything to be perfect, the house neat, the kids perfect in school and social skills, etc.. and when something is not going the way she thinks it should, she rebels and becomes all upset. Her counselor told her she probably has done this with me too, and so she pulls away instead of discussing her disappointment or discontent. Her counselor told her she is setting herself up for constant disappointment. I think I'm starting to like her counselor. I'm anxious to meet her. She told my "wife" that based on everything she has told her about me so far, she is asking my "wife" what is the problem, and that I am obviously a special person that she has described to her. Obviously, the problem is with my wife. She has to learn to either deal with it, or she will have to constantly be on the move, looking for the next "perfect" situation. I'm amazed at looking at my past postings, and realizing that yeah, I know I have faults, but you know what, I'm not so anal that I can't admit it and move on. I took the time to see some sights up here while working and life in general is okay. I only hope I can share this with my "wife".Molly, you are always so helpful with everyone's situation, I have seen your postings in other threads. I can't believe that you are at a roadblock in your relationship. What is the deal? I hope I can give back to you what all of you have given to me. Stay in touch. I have a 6am. flight tomorrow morning (Sat.) so I can be home in time for my youngest daughter's softball game. I look forward to hearing from all of you. Have a great weekend .....:)

May 12, 2001
12:39 am
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lost soul
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Hi Ranmar, it's great to hear that everthing is progressing well so far.Again, I felt that your wife is lucky to have a husband like you,patient & working throught all ways & means to save the marriage. I am always following your thread and it's happy to see the progress so far.

May 12, 2001
12:04 pm
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ranmar
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Lost Soul,
Thank you for your continuous support. It really has been beneficial to write. I just bought the book, Who Moved My Cheese, and read it on the plane. Easy reading, so insightful. I'm realizing that my wife has some major self worth problems that probably were always there, just suppressed because we were always kept so busy. But now, it is coming up and she is having to deal with it. More to come......

May 13, 2001
4:07 pm
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Molly
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Ranmar,
Thanks for your kind words. Yea, my world got rocked last week. I'm good, my head is on straight, nothing a winning lotto ticket wouldn't compliment. I wish I could say, ah, such a surprise, but my denial only goes so far!!! šŸ™‚ I am curious how you got self esteem issues out of the book, who moved my cheese, but for some reason, maybe I should get the book. Will write more later.

May 14, 2001
6:09 pm
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ranmar1
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Molly,
I think a lot of the book shows how just sitting still and not rocking the boat is safer, but eventually, it comes back to haunt you. I think my wife kept a lot of crap inside not wanting to rock her world, so she just went along until now. Now she has to deal with herself and how much of her self esteem is intact. What happened, if I may be so nosy, last week that blindsided you? (Or is it a case of thinking everything is okay, where in fact, deep down inside you know something is wrong?) I guess in retrospect I should have seen signs along the way that should have spelled out problems or trouble. I guess we are all blind to the real world at times, when we are emotionally involved. I wonder if I was the rescuer, having taken my wife out of her old world and into mine, where you work to earn everything, and strive to do better, and enjoy things along the way. I put too much empasis into trying to make her life better, and now look where it got us? I cared too much about her, without remembering myself first.

May 14, 2001
8:13 pm
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Molly
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Ok, this is number 6. I am trying to relate to you the what is up, with out the life story of Molly or sounding so STUPID.

I feel in my heart that you and your wife will work it out, she is having an identy crisis, and you have done all the right things. I can so completely relate to your situation, it is almost identical to what my first marriage was, including the time frame, its just that my first husband forgot to keep his pants zipped during the turmoil, and asked me to do things, that drove my self esteem in a spiral. I walked and should not have. We never went to counseling.

I walked right into the arms of a controlling manipulator. I made many mistakes over the years with him, and spent most of my hope, energy, and money in my escape to paradice. I truly saw different behavior in his plea's for my return, and in many ways it is not anything like it was before I left, however.......
I have had for the last year a passive wait and see attitude, in a way I had everything to gain, and not much else to loose. I am a believer in committment, which makes it hard, like a born again, maybe all the effort in the wrong place and time?
It wasn't two weeks back and the truth of his plans were showing, then his health. Any MD, would agree that it was critical, but I don't know if it was his mind over matter or what, but I supposedly exaggerated things!!
He was mr social, during our seperation, and new court ship, all of a sudden that ended due to his medication. We were supposed to move to the beach, while behind my back he bought this house which is not in either of our name, no I did not agree to this. he is self employed, and has personal tax liens that I did not know about, all else is in the name of the corporation. Its a small business, and he has his sons working there, of course he couldn't move the business which is real estate realated, due to HIS childrens dependency . I am not on any of his accounts. I discovered two days after we were married in mexico, that he had made a will, declaring himself a single man, so I said if I can't trust you we will keep it seperate. All was to become joint upon our reconcilliation, but noooooooooooo he had some story. There is no savings, there is no retirement, there is no insurance, upon his declaration,and my immediate fear,I went back to work at the clinic when they called, but the truth is no one could live on what they were offering, and when the position became permanent, I declined, things were smooth at home, and the market was taking off in real estate again I thought financially it would be better, I was burned out with MediCal rip off's, and forgot how hard it was to re-establish your self in this business. He is paying all the bills, including some of his kids, and they are making great money, but WHAT ABOUT US? I am told I am selfish and materialistic. Its not what I want, but I have all that I sorta need. The weekend trips not happening, the plans of what I would like to do, are not up for discussion, his life is complete with sports on television for some reason, and his now I guess routine of taking his sons to the RIVER of all places, for his family vacation. The worst thought of all is never leaving this town, which is ok, but I don't like it one bit, and waited 10 years to move, and he lied.
With the reality of this nothing life, and nothing to look foreward to, and the abundance of security, he drops on me not attending my daughters birthday, no big deal, but it was, then he states he is not going to attend my reunion with me, on top of never going out to dinner or a movie, or the recent decline in making a garden with me, doing nothing with me as was previously promised, things are adding up to hey Molly what is wrong with this picture, then the BOMB. His license is going to be revoked, or suspended with a fine. I am told that its none of my business, and besides he has a plan. so, its like reality check. I feel like I am married to Tony Sopranno, and need to see what Carmella is going to do in the final episode. Its all about him, it always has been, there is no communication, no trust, and I guess I am tired of the denial. On the other hand, he has been loving, supporting of my bills, and I guess my efforts in real estate, although he has encouraged me to work for a different office, with a new on- line approach. His oldest son and daughter in law are pissed at me because I refuse to do full time child care, when they have the income, bills paid, and every one else taking care of their needs. His youngest son, who was kicked out of college and is going to be a rock star , with the piercings, tatoos, and hate monger music, thinks I am the greatest, and I want to tell his darling girl friend to get the hell out while she still can, she is graduating next week with a double major BA degree . Heathen, thinks its cool that I go to his concerts in Hollywood, but the truth is its the only time I get to get dressed up.. I detest the fact that my husband pays for his hotel bills to take the girl, or when we went on the two trips to where I didn't want to go, he pays for all the hotel bills, I don't think we should support shack ups, so the youngest can deal with the same shit, the oldest did. so I hate this life when I look at it. My daughters are so far removed, from this level of life, and the longer I am distant from them, the longer I stay here, the less we have in common. They struggle, with no help from me, working their way through college, and paying off their own loans. They are your typical Santa Barbara ites... They are polite, but have lost respect for my acceptance, I feel it, I hear it. I thought I was showing loyalty and committment. They are not aware of the details. thank God.
The day to day, my car payment is made, I can go to the market and buy what ever I want, make a garden and have my dog, it is ok most of the time. It is just so lonely, when I look at the entire picture ,can't go there. I could be gone more, but that would rock the boat, I could make lots of money then what , hit the road, get to start all over again, I am just stuck, and got the wind knocked out of me. I know that this is as good as the relationship is going to get, its not a counseling issue, its a question for me to decide, what is right for me, what I guess I am willing to have, and fight for, and what I am willing to do about it. gurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr So I languaged a few things last week, and got the routine, it seemed to familiar in an almost staged like setting. Like if he was romantic Friday night, took me to a spontaneous lunch, actually went to the garden center with me , this should do her till she flips out next time, It was the routine, like the 10 years before I left, no answers, no change, just a few motions to calm the sea. I have asked my self just what would it take to get me to go, do I need zoloft???????????? Nice man, but wrong partner. Brock used to be on this thread a while ago, told me not to go back, but nooooooooo I had to give it a chance, and now I feel more trapped than ever. Can't believe it huh?

May 15, 2001
9:47 am
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Molly
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I was so incomplete after writing this, and it took so long too. What a vent!!! Sorry, didn't mean to sound like a victim, but hey that is what I get for not taking more ascertive action, and being comfortable. My ugh ugh man is wounded, I tried to communicate with respect to the future and he is numb, I can't blame him. But what I don't get, and where the frustration begins and ends is the lack of communication. In my efforts to discuss trends in Real Estate, and his thoughts for the future, its like we are completely seperate. Its like I am supposed to either take the bull by the horns, and he can drag his feet kicking and resenting, or sitting, or I am just supposed to sit here and wait for the walls to come tumbeling down

May 16, 2001
9:15 pm
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ranmar1
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Molly,
What are you doing selling yourself short like this? I should talk, but at least, I feel, that there is a possibility of my wife coming to her senses. Since this is all new to me, I don't know what to expect. You, on the other hand, has been through all of this, and it sounds like a long time. I guess we all get into a comfort level, compromising our self esteem and respect, because it is too hard to move toward the alternative. I have already explored my options and know what my responsibility would be to my wife and kids, so I have mentally prepared for a worse case scenario. I know it sounds fatalistic, but it's also a defensive mechanism, that allows me to function. Maybe it's time you start exploring how you would live and survive without. Monitor what your living expenses would be without him, think about how it would be to be alone for a while (God knows..I have). You know, it may not be as bad as we think if it came to that. It also will give you the confidence to face here and now, while thinking about possible alternatives. Keep writing to me.......

May 16, 2001
9:39 pm
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Molly
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Thank you for being kind. I don't know if my response to me would have been. I most likely should have kept the small but steady pay check with the clinic, to have secured an emergency fund, but I didn't. My reserves are beyond low, and this business costs more, more often than you make especially starting over again. I know I can't be in two places at the same time, mentally, but my heart says if you have to start all over AGAIN then do it where you want!! But right now that is totally unreasonable, but then I think just what would it take? There is a part of me that says I am really wasting time, with out trust, where are you? Then I wonder if it is all in my head. I am certainly not fearful of being alone, the time I had was the best in years, its just so exhausting, started there in 99, here in 2000, and to pack up and go again where? I am tired, and I guess that is part of why it has been so easy to accept and be comfortable. Help I am trapped in someone elses life!!!! šŸ™‚ I'll keep you posted, and again thanks

May 17, 2001
12:05 pm
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Cici
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ranmar, I just wanted to jump in and resopnd to one thing you said because I JUST talked about this with my own therapist. You said "I have mentally prepared for a worse case scenario. I know it sounds fatalistic, but it's also a defensive mechanism, that allows me to function."

I admitted this to my therapist on Monday, because this has always been my tride and true defense mechanism, the one I always returned to because I thought, it's better to prepare for the worst because that way you don't get disappointed.

But one thing you have to watch out for is the whole concept of "self-fulfilling prophecy". Because what we think will happen can influence our judgements and activities on such a subtle, pre-conscious level that we don't even realize it. So when you do prepare yourself for the worst you can sometimes allow for the worst to happen.

I think it all goes back to fear. And the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. Because that fear can shape our behavior in so many ways if we allow it to. Sometimes it is better to expect the best and be disappointed, because then you know you can survive. I mean, bizarrely enough, suffering a lot is pretty much the only way human beings ever learn about their own depths, and when you go out of your way to avoid suffering, you short-change yourself.

Just a thought. Still praying for you and thinking about you!

C

May 17, 2001
7:03 pm
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Alena
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Molly, I havent written to anyone in the last week, trying to sort through my own junk going on here, thinking I should keep my mouth shut on how to live happily ever after since I can't seem to find that happy ending myself.

But for you, if you can do it, I think you should go. What exactly is he adding to your life? Is he? Is he making your daily life better or worse? Is "tired" the only reason you don't go? I'm not making light of it, I know what you mean by tired. It's exhausting trying to make yourself happy with a situation that isn't.

Perhaps you watched Oprah today? She had on an author of another book on how to survive a marriage. It was something like " Surrendering to your Marriage". In a nutshell, it was finally giving in to the fact that you are married and the fantasy that there is someone else out there who can make you happier is just that, a fantasy. I didn't see the entire program, but to me, what I did see, was "settling". It's a good theory, finally stop looking and searching for that thing that's going to be the answer to all of your marriage problems. Just be happy with what you have.Give in....then you'll be able to see that what you want is right here. Kinda like "The Wizard of Oz" theory, you had it all right here Dorothy, there's no place like home.

Bull. I think that's what I've done for 26 years. I am equally confused.
What I wouldn't give for the opportunity to try it on my own. I would like to know if it IS being married that smothers me, or if it's all in my head....a fantasy.

I get so tired of giving in. To avoid an arguement I wont win.

But, what I wanted to tell you is that I hear that exhaustion in your posts. Stop apologizing for venting. Everyone here respects your opinions and heart. You always sound as if you have so much to offer and you're being stifled. You have 2 options as far as careers go...you wont be pennyless. You can do it yourself. Don't sit around and be unfullfilled Molly. You need to rustle up the energy to be all you can be. (Navy?)

Hope you're feeling better today, getting stronger.

May 17, 2001
10:52 pm
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Molly
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Thank you Alena,
I think that I had Ranmars wife's syndrom the perfect thing, then Surrendered to the marriage, and your right it is bull, and that is what I am trying to sort. Not to sell Cici short either, there is that language your future truth as well. I can honestly admit, that I have given it my best shot, with loyalty and integrity. I know in many ways my mate has risen to the occasion, but I know he is holding back, there is no excuse for not creating a more secure financial situation for his life partner. its like today, I heard there was a collison close to home with a suv, where there were fatalities, and I tried to call of course no answer, so you go through that stuff, of what if??? I don't even have a key or the security code to his office, far less a blank check to a bank account!!!!! That is no way to live and I know better, but I can't argue the point with him. I am seriously considering my options. You know just how hard it would be, and yes, although I do have two professions that I can fall back on, one costs so much and the industry is at a crossroads here in California, the energy things are allready effecting people, the lay offs, its a scarey time. If I do come to the decision to leave, I must do it very slow, and carefully. Today was a good day, and tommorow, is going to be the first fun I have had in a while, one of the Title companies is taking a bus load of us to Palm Springs for the day, so I am going to sit by the pool and bake like a lizzard.

May 18, 2001
7:28 pm
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ranmar1
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Molly,
I too, am in So. Calif (Orange Cty). I know all too well about the roving blackouts, etc.. But so what, we know it's going to come to an end, and we are told to prepare for it. Doesn't this sound a little like your situation? We can bury our heads in the sand, like my wife seems to have done, or we can make things happen, as painful as they may be initially. We don't know the outcome of our situations, true. But we do have control over here and now. My wife is at a timeshare in Florida, by herself, because she says she needs a break. She really is quite conflicted with herself, and I'm just a small part of her total problem...But so what, my life goes on, with my daughters. If she chooses to be a part of it, great. If not, then why try to fight for something that's not there. (Sounds familiar?)
Don't bake too much. It's over 100 out there. Medium well...........

May 19, 2001
12:11 pm
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Molly
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Ahhhhhhhhhhhh there is nothing like the smells of the spa, soaking in the waters, sunshine, a little wine and free food !! Such a wonderful day, don't know exactly how hot it was, but it was perfect. Re read my life stratgies book by Phil McGraw, and yea, got to be a better life manager. I so needed a day of fun, I got a case of the giggles on the way home, just an explosion of repressed joy. I am glad that I had that frame of mind when I walked in the door, mr bad mood was just sitting there, out on the patio when I got home, full of the blahs, and yucks of the day, its no wonder I have such a hard time having fun with him he is so stuck. His problem šŸ™‚

May 19, 2001
8:37 pm
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ranmar1
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Molly,
Do what I have done. Realize that the real underlying problems aren't with you, but with your spouse. Until they can deal with their own problems, they will never be able to deal with the relationship conflicts. My wife is busy trying to take a "vacation" from everything and everyone. She calls to say hi, sounding like nothing is wrong, and doing a lot of relaxing around the pool or watching tv. Today, I took the youngest to softball while my parents came down to watch it too, took all of them out to lunch, took a drive, and came back my home to visit. You know what, it's not that lonely or bad having this life without the Mrs. these past couple of days. I almost treat it as a dress rehearsal. It's suprising what you find when you aren't constantly under the pressure.

May 20, 2001
6:58 pm
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Molly
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I know, I know I know, but sometimes I forget, and get comfortable. I don't care what any one says though it all comes down to power, and the one with the money has the ultimate power. So, guess I just must earn it. Dress rehursal, but not quite, the girls will get older, and then there is her house and your house, where do they go for the holidays, and I tell you there is nothing worse than your first few holidays with a split family. All the traditions, replaced with lonliness, and acceptance, talk about anger, that is when it will cold cock you, right between the eyes.

May 22, 2001
3:44 pm
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Molly
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Ever see the cartoon of a co-dependent, holding on to the collar of a person while kicking them out the door? I want you to go but stay?
Yesterday, he got the letter from the state, I said all the supporting words, I tried to back him in the wrongness of it all. I said I am behind you 100%, and he said but...
I said no but. Now I have a deal which is on the edge of falling out, only one in escrow right now, I was venting and told to shut up. So I did, of course the lakers were playing, and the sole reason for his early return home. this morning, I get the personal attack, I get that they are tapes playing in his head, because I have done nothing but what I usually do, and have not complained on bit really about anything, and considering all the last two weekends have been really nice, so unless he is reading my e-mail, or reading this stuff, I don't get it. Its the old I feel small and so I guess I'll make her feel small. His stuff his process, but with all else, and no disscussion, this sure makes it hard. So I change my routine, and just focus on me, not like what I have done good comes out in these moments, so this will be an interesting few months, I know you guys are from Mars, but I guess even with training, there is relapse.

May 23, 2001
1:43 am
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Way to go Molly. It's so tough having to deal with that. Wish that I could offer you some more comfort, but all that any of us can really say is that we empathize and know what it is like to hurt that way.

Hey, anyone wanna take a break from reality and enjoy a vacation? Seattle has been lovely this week, weather straight from the hand of God. I also hear that Cancun is nice this time of year...

May 23, 2001
11:59 am
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Gotta get this deal closed, and then I for certain am going some where!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whoppeeeeeeeeeeeee

May 24, 2001
6:40 pm
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needing to vent, I will share that ,I am in total shock right this minuet, which I can't honestly tell is adding or replacing the anxiety I have had since this morning.
Last night was another personal attack night, old tapes that don't fit the present. I owned some stuff, and tossed back what didn't fit, and to be honest, never got the chance to say what I wanted to say, but figured, not the right time. Then of course this morning came the unbelievable invite for a day of fun Saturday, I turned it down, due to the holiday weekend, and traffic, he wanted to drive down to T.J. for lunch. Of course I also turned it down realizing something like this is always offered after an attack.
I talked to one of my friends this morning back up north, and she stated that she thought she knew of a job offering, and of course I can still do R.E. up there or counseling. I actually got excited about the possibility but felt guilty, knowing I can't be in two places at the same time. I did some work, and came home started stuff on line, and get a call from him on my cell. To return his call immediately at the office. I can't believe what he just asked me to do. For the second time in a week, he has asked me to sell a house behind my brokers back, who is his number one client! Like the first time I told his referred client, this is a small world, you don't bite the hand that feeds you. I explained to him that evening my response to her, and that I felt she wasn't a legitimate buyer, and he volunteered that it was his suggestion so that "WE" could get the full commission. Yea, like how would I collect? So, today he asks me directly, stating so WE, could get all the commission, and I wanted to ask who the we was, he and his son, or us? But I sat silent on the end of the phone, she has to be called right now and if you don't want to do it, I can, I said nothing, then I get this I completely understand, why you don't want to, and with attitude I'll call her. How could he ask me to do it?
I had suggested several times over the past months, for us to open an office, to try to do it together, but he had several excuses, including, What, go into competition with his clients?
Am I making more of this than what it really is? Am I looking for the last straw? Is this the hello, Molly in neon of the future months? Can I call him back and ask if it was a joke? A test? Is this why he doesn't trust me? That is a joke Ladeska.

May 27, 2001
3:38 pm
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ranmar1
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Molly,
We are not from Venus, we are from Mars, or is it the other way around? Who knows. Anyways, it sounds like your husband is scrambling in so many directions, he really doesn't know what he wants, or which way to go. Don't compromise your scrupples or reputation for his business practices. Ethics will come into play sooner or later. The ethics I have followed throughout my ordeal (and you know where I have been) has kept me sane, and from caving in and telling her to get the hell out. She now tells me that she pretty well has made up her mind what she wants (I felt she had made up her mind in the beginning...remember) but that she is afraid to act on her feelings. Now she ask if I am willing to put up with this lifestyle of both having our own life (it's been that way anyways) but staying together for the sake of the kids, until they are out of school, and maybe every once in a while, coming together (sexually I assume). I am not going to split up my family. She knows I am not walking out, so she has to make a move if that is what she wants. She knows I still love her, and that I still give and give to her, but that she doesn't feel the connection anymore. What do you think is going to happen here? You are such a great "counselor" I can't offer anything so profound to help you out of your situation, other than to do what you have done for me, just being there.

May 27, 2001
4:19 pm
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Molly
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September 30, 2010
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Trust me, I know that comprimising my license, would be the last chain of freedom for me, so noooooooo way. Besides it just is not my style. Like I have always stated once you cross a line, where does it end? I personally find comfort in never having to worry, or remember what I said to who, or look over my shoulder, integrity, and character its all we have.
I can't really worry about where he is and what he is up too, did that once and nearly drove me insane. I had hoped for different, so much for hope. we are just different people with different agendas in life, I'm guessing.
I posed a question to Ladeska regarding how marriage can work to day, maybe its just me, and a perfection thing living with a liar ?????:)
With respect to your wife, so like what would be different?
What are you supposed to do, roll over and fetch?
Hang on I'm willing to bet she does something stupid, you on the other hand, could have your entire world as it is now.

There will eventually come a power play. Hang on, your ok, I'm ok were just doing the best we can, right?

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