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Help Me Please x 3- Randy
August 8, 2001
11:29 am
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ranmar1
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Hi guys. Hope this is easier. So long Help Me Please x 2. Randy

August 8, 2001
12:46 pm
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Okay guys, here is the latest. The wacko woman is off to Mexico today until Sunday, supposedly with her ding dong girlfriend, the one that went out with Earl, without her still knowing it. Yesterday, I came home and found a book I was reading from my counselor, Narcissism and Intimacy, missing from my bed. I had marked it at a chapter on affairs. After wacko came home, miraculously the book reappeared on the bed where I left it. She had come back from her counseling session that day. I didn't say anything. This morning, I asked her if she took it, and she said yes, she wanted to show her counselor, and thought I purposely left it open on my bed for her to see. I said if I wanted her to see it, I would have given it to her. Also, yesterday, my oldest daughter got a call from the daughter of Earl, asking her if she wanted to go to the movies together. My oldest daughter says they are friends from dance. She was also out in the desert over spring break with her dad, Earl and my family. They went to the movies together, and when it was time to pick her up, she called us saying she was in Earl's car waiting for us. My wacko went flying out the door to get her. This is the first time I know of that my daughter has socialized with Earl's daughter outside of the spring break vacation. Maybe Earl and my wacko are trying to get them together more so they can plan accordingly, who knows. My question is, when is it appropriate to let my girls know what their mom has really been doing behind all of our backs, at what age? My oldest one asked me what really happened to cause this separation and my wacko partner and I both said it was adult things, that can't be brought up. When is it appropriate for them to know? Yes, maybe it's revenge on my part, but don't they have a right to know some day, what their mother really is? I feel like wacko and Earl are just rubbing it into my face. Am I reading more into this or what? Molly, Gingerleigh, Alena and everyone else, what do you think? Randy

August 8, 2001
1:04 pm
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Randy, the truth is I have fought the war of silence for over 16 years. That is why I thought it was a good idea for you to write wako's parents, a sort of clearing, speaking your end of things. Your girls are old enough to not be stupid. Let them draw their own conclusions, wakos defense of what ever you tell the girls would most like be a best seller. Don't influence them, any psych would call it brainwashing, that is what they called it when I said what kind of bike do you want, go figure. See, they could never have a bike where we had lived before, the psych said that the father would have to buy the bikes to even out the damage that I did, in creating a fantasy, and white washing the move, and seperation. Could be correct, what ever. I hear your rage, and it is appropriate, just not ok, to enroll the kids. Sure they are making their moves, wako and Earl, games people play. There are enough movies, and TV shows, to help them formulate their opinions, the dress, the activities, the boobs, yada yada yada. What you will soon see, in the girls own way, is some caretaking efforts on their parts, that was one of the things my youngest asked Who will take care of daddy now? Of course I wanted to suggest all of the bimbos that had been while he was on the road, but said Dad is a grown up and can take care of him self, the truth is she truly created a bond with him, that possibly never otherwise would have existed. See, they never got the truth, and supposedly now that they are adults, and when I get freaky, and feel guilt, or the want to speak the truth, when I feel slighted by there lack of attention to me, I just want to shout from the roof tops, but what would that look like to them? What good would it really serve? More feelings for them to process, when it is my rage that I must deal with. Alena reminded me the other day, that the parent that they feel closest to, is the one that they feel they can take for granted, I know that and let it be until the next wave of feelings come over me. Just an example of the long term consequence that we never think about, just let things fall into place, and go play racket ball, put her face on the thing and smack it.
healthier processing. Now if you won't do that, plan your new business accounts, but keep your mind focused.

August 8, 2001
3:45 pm
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Molly,
You are right, what purpose would it serve to tell them the truth. Let them formulate their own conclusions. As the wacko's therapist said to me in one of my one on one sessions, if and when she hooks up with Earl, the kids will rebel. They will put two and two together, and then stand back. Ofcourse, Narissism Wacko has no feelings or cares, so it really won't affect her that much. I plan on enrolling the girls into couseling once we are physically separated. My older daughter has a lot of pent up rage, and I'm not sure what it is really directed at. I'm sure some of it is our situation, I just don't know how much of it. Meantime, Wacko/Narco is off to Mexico. Hooray. I am going to stay busy with my daughters over the next four days. Already have it planned out, with quality time together. Meantime, Wacko/Narco abandons everyone again.
Talk to you later......Randy

August 8, 2001
7:55 pm
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Randy, when the he$$ are you two getting actually physically seperated?? I cannot imagine living in the same house for as long as you have with the situation being what it is. Good grief!
I agree with Molly. You may feel all the rage you need to feel, you know what she has been doing. But they don't need to hear any of it from you. I've been there Randy, it doesn't work.
One week before my husband and I married, his ex wife informed him that she was giving their son to him, she did not want him. Now, they had been divorced for a couple years and this happened ONE week before we married. Can you imagine that? She did not want her 5 year old son. Period. 2 years later, she sued us for custody and lost. She did everything she could to make our lives miserable, yet treated him to Christmas every other weekend for her visitation. Do you think I didn't want to tell him what she was really like?? Every single time he came home throwing up, every time he blamed me for him not being with her? And the truth was, it was her doing. I loved him and held him and raised him and never said a bad word to him about her. But they learn, eventually, they are not deaf and blind. They just cannot hear it from the other parent. They will get defensive and blame you for whatever...because then they don't have to blame the guilty one.
Ya know? And besides that, someone once told me that you don't run down the other parent to a child because somewhere down the line, they may put it together that ..Parent is bad, kid is product of parent..therefore, kid is bad too?? Didn't want to do that.
Please don't say a word of how you feel. It's not necessary that they know all the garbage about her. They love you, regardless of anything else, and that's all you need to be concerned with right now. You and them. Forget her...and the quicker she gets out the quicker you can.

August 9, 2001
12:32 am
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Alena,
Thank you soooooo much for your reply. You are right, I don't have to add to their pressure of growing up. I'm sure, eventually, when they see the two of them together, they will put two and two together. As far as the physical separation, she says she is not leaving until our settlement agreement is finalized and signed and filed. The odd thing is that I'm the one putting it all together. She is the one that wanted out, and destroyed everything, but not doing any of the work. I, on the other hand, would like to get her out as soon as possible. I'm stuck with her for now. What a wacko/ bit#$%h. How smart can this other guy be putting up with this too. He's just as wacko as she is. I'm just starting to realize that I ought to send my wacko bit#$5h a thank you note, for getting out of my life, and allowing me to recover and recoup my own life back. Maybe I'm starting to see the light. Remember when I started all this back in Jan., I was fighting so hard to save this, but what would I have saved? Thanks again.....Randy

August 9, 2001
9:36 am
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Remember back in January when Molly said divorce is so bad and it has such lasting affects? Well, unfortunately that's true. But sometimes divorce is just inevitable. One person cannot save a marriage. This is a terribly difficult time for you and the girls, try to find peace for you and them as much as you can. Try not to get hung up in he-said, she-said, she did this, blah blah blah. It only leaves more scars than you can imagine. Kids get so much from us. They watch our faces, our reactions to something that scares them, and if we look like it's okay, then they will think, hey it's okay. And vice versa for the other way. Talk to your family, your friends, us, vent it out, but for the girls, put on the happy, strong dad face. I'm sure you do, and there will be times down the road where you will be forced to swallow some of her sh*&, but you just move on to a better and higher place with your new life and your girls. It'll be cool. Really..

August 9, 2001
11:25 am
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randy with out sounding like a hypacrite uh he isn't putting up with wacko right now you are.... it sounds like we need to get my hubby and your wife a place together... lol

I know what you would have saved I am living it..... SADNESS AND DESPERATE NEED TO GET IT TOGETHER and angry that you had a chance and blew it because you thought you were doing the right thing by getting back/staying together...Sue

August 9, 2001
8:48 pm
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So, Sue, are you with him, or all alone? Not that you can't be all alone with him, lol, but are you still in the same house?

Randy, its a loose loose situation here, I mean, if you had just tossed in the towel, you always would have wondered the if I had only tried. I think the completeness that you have from your efforts, just have to stand for something, so she is wako, like that wasn't in the game plan for the Relational Rescue, know what I mean, just can't do it by your self.

August 10, 2001
2:50 am
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Molly and Sue and everyone else,
Today I went for counseling and realized that wacko woman is just imitating her parents. Her dad was caught having an affair years ago, and the poor catholic south american mother stays because it is the right thing to do. I asked wacko woman if she remembers ever having any deep conversations with her mom or dad when growing up and she said no. In addition, her parents left her and her sisters back in Chile for two years, while she was about 6, to come here to settle and get a job. She doens't know how to be close with anything. She's in it for the ride of the fantasy right now. The sad thing is she is trying to get my oldest daughter to spend more social time together with Earl's daughter. What a manipulative bit^$ch. I'm learning that her behavior is her responsibility, and her actions are her responsibility, not mine. I don't have to make excuses or compromise anymore. Hopefully, she will continue to treat her new "just male friend" exactly the way she has treated me. This Narcissistic wacked out lady is only out for herself, at all cost to my kids and our family. Tonight, I took my girls over to some friends house for a barbeque dinner and dominoes. We had the best time. See, the difference is that I enjoy spending time with my girls, she enjoys spending time with her friends and Earl, and finds any excuse to be on the run. I think she is running away from reality. I can't stand the presence of this idiot, so luckily, she is in Mexico with supposedly her girlfriend until Sunday. At this point it doesn't matter to me, because it allows me quality time with my own girls. I hope they truly see the difference some day.
Randy

August 10, 2001
12:50 pm
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ugh, Randy, your the dad, just say no, I don't think its a good enviornment for the girls to be in, they will stay with me or my parents, while you and your just a male friend, and his kids, do your bonding.
Just because she wants to take them there, doesn't mean they get to go there, like remember when kids asked to go to the movies, go ask dad. You are the head of household, and have the responsibility of screening your childrens influence, Now of course this is going to cause an argument, but let her get prepared for custodial crap. The down to the minuet, delivery, the no its my weekend, the no, you can't take them to Mexico with out a 15 page notorized document giving the permission of both parents, with out it representing abduction. She must get your approval for everything, if you want to play it that way.
Oh, and all the community funds that she has spent, on good ole Earl, and her adventures, and be added into and deducted, she owes you for those expenditures, down to the cell phone bill, she can pay you back minus the pittance of 4k a month. Get the anger out of it and do war.

August 10, 2001
1:47 pm
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Molly yes as of this minute we are still in the same house.......

And I agree with Molly don't let the kids go if you don't want to... she can't make you let them go...

molly I took my pills and trying to swallow I see what you are saying

August 10, 2001
4:02 pm
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you said that wacko is imitating her parents.... well I think we all do to a point.. she obvioously took after dad and she looked for someone that would fill the shoes of her mom... I took after my mom and looked for some to fit my dads shoes...she the aggresor and you the doormat so to speak... me the doormat looking for him the aggresor it is all we know... Untill we grow up... I don't want to be the doormat... but I don't know how or when to say when I think all the time how much easier it would be if he would just leave me...But where would that put me... with the same guy different name....you and I was pushed to make a new life and we are still lingering here with them... for me now it has been almost 3 years... and for almost all of it.. I hurt on the inside but now that I have filled the inside up I have to do something and it is sort of like the zig zag thing that molly talks about... now he is "all about" family and talking about the future and all of that... but I know it to be just words he uses to keep me because as I have been in here trying to start my healing. He is in chat rooms looking for people that are in our area and tells them that he is single... and asks them out... so I know that everything he says about the future is bs... I can't figure why if he is so cunning as to be able to keep me why he would not be smart enough to cover his tracks.....because I have fixed it so that he doesn't have to be so careful "so what if she does find it she won't say any thing anyway"..... well he is so wrong this time... and maybe I am using it as an excuse but I am buying my time.. for the day that I leave...
I printed out the things that I found and am thinking about putting that conversation up on here for the wallpaper .... is that too much I don't think after that i will have to give to much of explanation as to why everything I own is gone... do you guys?

August 10, 2001
6:19 pm
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hey, sue, don't be so rough on your self, you know I am in the same situation sort of.
If my guy is doing that stuff, he has his office to do it in, I with out becomming a computer security expert, have no way of knowing.
he was so full of the promise, the stated focus, and one day it is the other, its all my choice. I don't have little ones at home, so I have even less of an excuse to tolorating.For me, the less I acknowledge the negative behavior, and just reinforce my own boundry lines, the better all is working. i screw up, I buy into the dance and drama once an a while, but I also know where my power points are, and hold on to those, whilst in the mean time stashing my cash, waiting enjoying the good that comes, with eyes wide open.

August 10, 2001
9:14 pm
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Hey guys, I just finished the book Spiritual Divorce by Debbie Ford. Oh my gosh, what an eye opener. It has really helped me with a new perspective on getting through all this, and getting to the healing process. It deals with your inner feelings, thoughts, pain and also dealing with acceptance and forgiveness. She actually has a chapter called Wedding Gifts, where she talks about all the good that came from the marriage, and even talks about thanking your ex for all that she brought into the relationship, and allowed you "to have those gifts". It talks about forgiveness and allowing yourself to accept things the way they are, to let yourself "flow with the river, not try to swim against the currents."
I responded to a note my soon to be x left me before taking off to Mexico. Her note ask me not to leave articles and books laying around for her to see or read, since she is "already in touch with her own feelings and that since I think I know what kind of person she is, why would I want to be with that kind of person". I responded back telling her to stop looking in my area for my own books and articles. Then, I wrote about how she was right, I didn't want to be with her, knowing who she is and what she is, and the current state of mind and predicament she is in. She said she is further along in her recovery process than I am, and I responded that yes, she may be further along, but along what path and what results? Then, from this book I read, I addressed the "Wedding Gifts", thanking her for causing me to reach so down deep to feelings I never experienced before, for giving me the joys of a family, of having two daughters which I will devote the rest of my life to, of feeling what closeness and love felt like, etc. etc..Her letter was 1/2 page long, mine turned out to be three pages long. As I was writing the letter, I found myself crying (macho man I'm not). I was actually thanking her for all she has done for me, and wishing her peace, happiness and inner strength for where she is heading. I'm tired of the pain, which is suppose to be the wake up call that something is not right. I'm tired of it all. I just want to deal with what things really are, drop this suit of armour I've had for protection, and get rid of the heavy heart, so I can open up my heart to new experiences and life itself. I celebrate the joys we had, the experiences we shared and the joy of having a close family. This book is almost a mandatory for all of us stuck in a relationship doomed for failure. It shows us how to look through the other persons' eyes, to accept responsibility for what we did knowingly wrong in the relationship, and allowing ourselves to forgive ourselves and the other person as well. Once we can reach this point, we are on our way to a true healing process. I hope to be at this point soon. We give out the vibrations to others that we want to attract. If we are hurt and wounded, we will attract the hurt and wounded. If we get to a higher level, giving out the vibrations of a healthy, happy and emotionally giving individual, we attract the same. Wow, what an eye opener. Peace to all of you..............Randy

August 10, 2001
11:03 pm
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Randy, I'm so glad you read the book and were open to it's message. You sound so much more at peace tonight.
I'm sorry you've had to go through any of this, but I think you've finally reached a good turning point.
You may be luckier than many of us by reading that book, it's helped you break through some of the useless crap and get into healing.

It's time to put away those destructive emotions and look forward to the constructive attitude you need.

Good for you...

Peace and good vibes, hang in there..

August 11, 2001
12:49 am
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Alena,
I think I'm crying more now than ever, trying to put everything into perspective and truly trying to deal with it all. Tonight, I took my two daughters to Temple for services, and it was wonderful. During some of the hymns being sang, I had to stop and look at these two gifts of mine, and I almost lost it right there. I guess I have so much to be thankful for, and to start looking forward instead of backwards. Its' amazing that if you can get past all the "noise and conflict within ourselves" and put to rest all the analyzing of why and when, it creates almost a sense of calm. Heck, you would think I was on some sort of illegal substance the way these postings are starting to sound. Have a great weekend everyone. I'm taking my daughters to California Adventure tomorrow, and then Sunday up to Los Angeles to spend the day with my parents, their grandparents. Looking forward to hearing from all of you..........Randy

August 11, 2001
1:50 pm
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Alena
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Well, I'm not a psychologist or a therapist or anything like that, but I think your tears are a part of the healing process Randy. I think you go through steps of grief with a loss of this kind. Especially since you were kind of blindsided by this whole thing. You can't grieve for something you don't acknowledge, and by acknowledging it, by admitting to yourself that you have to move on, it's sad. I'm sorry for your pain, Randy. Tears are okay, they're a kind of cleansing.

Have a peaceful, happy weekend with the girls, gosh, they are so lucky to have you and I'm sure they love you to pieces. I'm sure you're their hero.
And that's a good thing to be to a little girl. And let yourself wallow in the love from your parents and your daughters this weekend. Tears and wallowing in family love, it's a good therapeutic weekend in contrast to the wretched days of the week you've been having.

Peace..

August 12, 2001
12:41 pm
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Alena and All,
Thank you. This book, Spiritual Divorce, was so inspirational, I am reading it again. I picked up on an area dealing with our ego. It basically says that our ego is what keeps us from moving forward, because it ties us to the past, since it is the only familiar thing we know. If we can get past our ego (fears, doubts, resentment, hurt) we move into the unknown, which should be trusted and welcomed. Holding on to the already known and getting in our way because it's the only familiar thing we have, our ego prevents us from letting go of it, thus keeping us in the pain, hurt, etc.. It keeps us reliving the events over and over, thus making us more upset. I'm trying to work on putting my ego to the side, and dealing with what really is here and now, not what I wish it was.
Bye for now..........Randy

August 13, 2001
12:18 am
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Take care Randy. Have a good time with your girls.

August 13, 2001
5:10 pm
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Hi group. I had the best time with my girls, and it all paid off last night. After coming back from my parents house with my two daughters, the future x was back from Mexico. I said hello and went upstairs. The girls, I thought were downstairs visiting with their mother. I went to say goodnight to my older daughter 14yrs old, and she asked why mom was such a grouch and had an attitude when she spoke with her. I answered I didn't know, and she should go ask her mother why she is treating her that way. Then, my daughter responded, "Dad, I wish you would have sole custody of me." I almost fell over. I couldn't react in front of her, so I just gave her a big hug and kiss. About five minutes later, I went back to her room and gave her another hug, and told her that was one of the most loving things she has said to me. Today, I called a support group through a family service, and am enrolled to begin next week. The coordinator asked me a couple of questions over the phone, scheduled me for an informal interview in person with her for next Monday,so she can inform the group about me. She asked if I had any objections to the group being almost all women, and I said no, I'm not looking to socialize, just participate. After she asked me for a little more detail about the separation, and I told her, she said I sounded like I was handling it pretty well, and looked forward to my participating in the group next Wednesday. I'm off to Phoenix tomorrow, and back Thursday night, so I guess I'll look forward to seeing all of you then......bye for now......Randy

August 13, 2001
6:53 pm
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Told ya soooooooooooooooo.

Now watch mom, get crankier and crankier, and then lets see, hmmmmm I am sure an illness will be around the corner, let me look closer into this crystal ball, hmmmmmmmm yea, before September.

doing good Randy, utilize all the support you can, and Stay connected to the Temple, community support while wako, is out there working her way to Fontana, opps, that was subjective, will get the idea where she is headed.

August 13, 2001
7:35 pm
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Hey Molly, thanks. I understand the Fontana mentality. I just hope she continues to self destruct, while I am able to "recover". I am working my ass off to read as much as possible about the healing process, posting here and on the Narcissism site, and now enrolled in the support group. With people like you, Ginerleigh, Cici, Alena, and everyone else, this site has been invaluable. Thank you. It will be interesting to see where wacko goes from here. Stay tuned.
Randy

August 14, 2001
12:16 am
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Okay, you'll love this one. Today, I get home, get the mail and find an American Express charge for $232. Upon checking, it was from the future x's card to Nordstrom. Now, two weeks ago I asked what the $292 charge on the visa to Nordstrom was all about, and she said kids school clothes. Then she whips out a leather jacket, still in the bag from Nordstrom, and says if I'm so concerned about her spending, I should go take it back. Then we really went at it. I called her an insensitive, heartless, unconcious, self centered person, who only thinks of themselves. I told her business was getting tighter six months ago and to try and help out. Instead, she says well you never questioned me before on my spending. I replied, exactly, I trusted you, just like I trusted you when you said you were going out with friends, just like I trusted you all along, and it was all one big lie from you. She tried to fire back, and told her she was a sick, Narcissistic bitch, that needed to run off with her new friend that she is such denial over. I told her I wanted to be paid back for all the cell calls she's made to him, that I have paid for. I told her she was a liar and I didn't trust her on anything anymore. Then she opens up a notice from the Limited, showing that I took my name off of being responsible for her acct. She blew steam, saying it was illegal to send the letter, and that I was trapping her, since she had no income, and I was ruining her credit. I told her, she still had access to the check book and the joint remaining visa. She said she was calling the attorney and I said go for it, and make sure you let them know how much you've been spending when I asked you to slow down due to business slow down. Oh my God, what a deranged idiot I have living under this roof. I guess this is a moment of venting......sorry guys.....
I'm off to Phoenix tomorrow for three days. Good timing, huh?
Randy

August 14, 2001
4:20 pm
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Randy....why didn't you just tkae the ooat and say...."okay" and return it IMMEIDATELY!!!!

You know all the words hon'

-don't let her push your buttons
don't buy into her shit
etc etc etc

Vent away but expect us to say...stop and think!!

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