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Help Me Please x 2!!!
April 3, 2001
1:47 am
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gingerleigh
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Well Ranmar, I very much respect you for working through the rough times. It's also admirable that you have made a decision and are sticking to it... she can leave if she wants to, but you will not kick her out. You are doing what you feel is right in your heart for you and your daughters, and only you can make that call.

I just get steamed when I see kind people getting mistreated.

Perhaps Molly is right and the lunch thing can be viewed as a glimmer of hope.

I'm praying for you, I really hope that things work out for you and that she comes around and starts following through on getting the help she needs. I hope that she decides that she wants to change for the better and does it.

April 4, 2001
8:09 pm
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ranmar1
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Hi guys> Hope everyone is doing well. Had a very eye opening session today with the counselor, as couples. He asked my wife how long she has been feeling this way, and she responded for about a year. He asked her if she ever really told me how she felt, and she responded no, that I should have asked more questions. The counselor pounced on that and asked how is he suppose to ask questions, when he doesn't even know there are questions to ask. In addition, he asked her why she hasn't made a change yet, she responded that she just isn't sure yet, and that she is a creature of habit, and doesn't like to make changes. He pounced on that and asked her if it was her that said she wanted, excitement, thrill and lust? He asked her why it was okay for her to not want to make changes and she was a creature of habit, but it wasn't okay for me to be the same way, since she said she was bored with our marriage and routine. She got real quiet. He asked her how she was going to work through any problems if she is not willing to work on this one first? He told her, (which is what I had said earlier) that her wanting the thrill and excitement usually means infatuation, that last about 12-18 months, and that was she prepared to try and maintain that feeling with others? He was right on. She said she had made an appt. with a doctor for hormonal testing, and also an appt. with a female therapist. At least she is starting to show some sign of life. Who knows.

April 4, 2001
11:46 pm
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ranmar1
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Follow up- we went out to lunch and she says the following to me: She has pulled away from two of her girlfriends because they were so demanding of her time, and wanted her to be accountable for why she couldn't always join them when they wanted her to. She says she told them she didn't want to be pulled by them, and the only people she is accountable to is her kids and me. (What a shocker this was). She says she told them that getting together only a couple times a month instead of every week was good enough. I told her if she had adopted this kind of attitude over a year ago, we wouldn't be sitting here in this situation. In addition, she tells me she knows she has had the worse (her first marriage) and had had the best, and now she has to figure out what to do with that. She knows her life will not be the same, and she states to me that she hopes i don't think she is still here strictly because of finances. I didn't answer, other than saying I thought it was a factor.I told her that going to counselling has been the greatest thing for me, and that even though we are in this crappy position, it has been the best eye opener for me, realizing that I don't have to sell out my self respect, dignity or feelings anymore. I found that making a lot of money isn't going to make me any happier, and that I can accept myself as being okay where I am. The counselor pointed out that I am resentful because I played by all of life's rules, being morally upright, never doing anything to violate my vows, trying to be the best provider, husband, and father, and that others aren't always this way, but they are still okay in their relationship, and that I feel cheated in not having the same payoff. I think he was right on.
More to come later. Hope everyone is doing okay. I'm feeling pretty good right now. Best to all of you. You are all so inspiring to me, I love visiting this site to see what everyone has to offer.

April 5, 2001
1:28 pm
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Cici
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Goodfor you, Ranmar, I am so happy that you are working through this instead of running away. You are a gem, your wife is very lucky. I'm glad she finally realizes it.

April 5, 2001
9:04 pm
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Molly
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Stick with it, and try some how to let her be her with out making her pay, for all of this crap, marriage is like two boats tied together going through rough tide, with out taking on any water. It is work.

April 7, 2001
8:02 pm
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ranmar1
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Hi everyone. I went out of town for one night with a friend, to Ensenada, just for a break. It was good to go, although I did miss my daughters (although they really didn't since it was so short a time, but that's okay). Next week I have to go to North Carolina for a trade show, while my wife and girls go to the desert to our timeshare. She will have her other girlfriends and their daughters there for most of the time, and I asked her to take a couple of days to be alone, with our daughters only, which she agreed to. She told me today, she made an appointment with the female counselor, and looks forward to going to her. She will continue to go to ours as a couple, and mentioned that I'll probably be asked to come in a couple of times to hers. That's fine with me. At least she is making some movement to some kind of resolve in her own mind. I'm still "connected" to her and this marriage. I just can't shut it off like she seemed to have been able to. Now, I have to see where this new counselor takes her. I have mentally prepared for any outcome, thanks in part to this site and all of your help and input. Being in Southern California, it is such an artificial environment, it sometimes is hard to find sincere and realistic people to talk with. Please keep your postings coming. Thanks to all.........

April 9, 2001
10:19 pm
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ranmar1
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Well guys, I'm looking for everyone. This weekend was very uneventful, just the same stone cold spouse. Yesterday, she mentioned something about the house and how the value may go down if things slow down, which she says would make it difficult to sell should we not be able to "save the marriage." She says things so blassaie, like it doesn't really mean much to her. Maybe I'm too sensitive. I took her to the side and told her that I'm not going to continue to work at saving the marriage by myself. She responded that she knows that. But no other response. She says she is looking forward to going to her new female counselor tomorrow (Tues.). I'm looking forward to her going to. Maybe she will get off this merry go round, of going nowhere, and start to realize what kind of damage she has done. Who knows. Maybe it's still wishful thinking. I have too many friends telling me lately that they don't know why I have allowed myself to be taken advantage of the way I have and as long as I have. I guess I must be blind or something. To be continued.

April 10, 2001
11:39 am
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Alena
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Not blind Ranmar, just something in your eye....love. That'll do it. You want so much to work it out with your wife and so it's easy to not "see".
Your friends and we "cyberfriends" can only throw out a bunch of suggestions and you have to see which one sticks for you and your wife.

I think in being married, that's part of the whole deal. I don't think you'll mind being taken advantage of if it's only for a short while and you can save the marriage.

It's confusing. She sounds drained, rambling, not able to make a final decision, not wanting to commit either way. Hope this new counselor helps, can't hurt right?

Good luck...

April 11, 2001
10:47 am
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ranmar1
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Alena,
You are right. I think she is just verbalizing what she is thinking, to see how it sounds, without realizing that I am hearing it. Who knows. She went to her new counselor yesterday and really liked her. Let's see what comes out of it. Nothing said yet. I go to ours today. I'm going on my own. To be continued.

April 12, 2001
12:23 am
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lost soul
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You are doing what you can so far, ranmar1 . I admired your patience and hard works to keep trying and working things out between your wife and yourself.

I really hope things will turn out to be what you have hope for. But untill that time has come, take it easy yourself.

Best regards

April 12, 2001
12:09 pm
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ranmar1
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Well, here is the latest eye opener.
During our couple conseling yesterday, my wife informed both our counselor and myself of her meeting with her new female counselor the day before. She was very happy with her, and feels that her counselor read her pretty acurately. She informs us that her problem is of the following:
When we first met, it was exciting. When we got married it was exciting.
When we then had children it was exciting. Now that we have settled into a "mature" relationship, she is finding it difficult to accept it. She doesn't know if she is capable of having a "mature" relationship. The excitement was gone, and the calming routine was setting in, and she is looking for more than that. Our counselor asked if we are willing to continue to come and work on a possible reconciliation. She said she would continue to come as a couple, probably on a once a month basis. I said I wasn't interested if this was just a way for her to transition out of the marriage. I said I would continue if she truly wanted to explore her potential to mature into the relationship. She then looked at me and apologized, saying she knows this is her problem, and our counselor jumped in and said then why has she been chipping away at me during this whole process. She responded that she had me on a pedestal over the time, and now that we have settled into a routine, she doesn't see me the same way. She says she knows she doesn't want to be the old, single lady down the road, but I said that is where she is heading for if she thinks she can constantly keep infatuation the core of her relationships. I am so pissed right now. How can she feel good about realizing this is her problem, and still say she is torn between not wanting to remain married, but not wanting to hurt me, the kids and her family. She already has. I'm starting to wonder if I would be better off without her anymore. I told her I wouldn't allow our marriage to be like her parents, just putting up with each other with no feelings or emotions toward each other. She said she realized my feeling toward this.
Okay group, I need your feedback. I'm going back to our counselor tomorrow by myself.

April 12, 2001
12:54 pm
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Molly
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Life sometimes sucks, reality bites, and truth hurts. More information than you or any partner ever wants to hear, but it sounds like its all out in the open, and real. Not you, you , you, but acceptance of her responsibility or lack of responsibility in the relationship. Those things that we think, but never admit out loud. The whats it all about Alphie syndrome. Sometimes I think it is the constant struggle that binds people together, hardship, problems, vs easy going and good times. I don't hear where you as a couple have had much of a struggle,can afford just about anything, can go any where, have your health, and good, healthy children. So life is boring, and it takes maturity to accept it. Why do you think us older women, have been talking about toliet papering houses, and streaking naked at midnight? Mid life rebellion. Everything she admitted is true, and I'm sure if you wanted to get stuck on a tangent, you could "own" that you to have fought to keep sparks of interest, that it is not easy to get up every morning, and look at her tired eyes, sagging this and that, to muster the memory of the "wow" days. Perhaps you have more going on, with business etc, and don't have time to go in that direction mentally. Of course I could be wrong. I know that it hurts, and perhaps damaged beyond repair, but I think she did get to the core of the issue, and is making progress. I hear no blame, I hear no anger, I hear frustration that this is all there is. I struggle with the same thing sometimes. I don't like where I live, the town, or the house, mind you I have everything I need, but not what I want. Its good, by most standards, and my husband is complete, but I want more. He would be happy if we stayed home every night, I still want to ride camels in Egypt, and snorkle in Belize, so I get frustrated, in my daily routine, going to Ralphs the highlight of the week, or the new vegies at the Farmers market. I get more fun out of an hour with a girl friend at lunch, than sitting across from him on the couch every night while he channel surfs, but the difference is that I realize now that this is it! I now celebrate in some ways the comfort of our history, loyalty,and that we made it through the struggle of the reality that this is all there is. It is good that this is being addressed now, because empty nest syndrome is worse, it is just so hard to be a woman, so hard to be a wife, and mother. American society has not honored these things, and we don't get the tokens of success that men do, even in school the weekly spelling test gave more validation than you get as a house wife and mother. It would scare me to hear what you heard, and I would be angry, but if you are committed, what is your choice ? If you can continue to be the grown up, and she doesn't act out to much, and continues in the direction that she has in the last two weeks, I see hope, success is just this side of splat. Just my opinion, and experience.

April 12, 2001
9:44 pm
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Alena
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Ranmar, I agree with much that Molly has to say. And I have been where your wife has been, however I haven't reacted in quite the same way.

Many women (and men) arrive at the same conclusion, at the same time in their lives. Especially, as Molly says, when life is going along with relatively little problems. It just gets boring. Period. You begin to question how much you actually need that person you "live" with, and how much do they need you? So, I really do understand what she is saying, I just don't agree with her plan of action.

She sounds deflated, tired, frustrated, lost, depressed, looking for something to validate her life right now. It's the "Oh my God, I'm forty something and what the hell do I have to show for it" thing. "I'm running out of time to see if there isn't something better out there for me I missed while I was coasting here in this life."

Ya know? It's like Molly said, you don't have a whole lot of choices.

And this is why I suggested a while ago that you give her the feeling that you DONT care, it would give her a taste of life without you and may just light the fire she's so envious of. Ya know?

If it wasn't for my husband, I'd be single right now. Well, duh, no kidding, but what I mean is, I've thought the things you're wife is thinking, I tried to act on them, and my husband worked at convincing me he was the best thing I ever needed, don't go looking for anything else.
But I was seperated from him for 3 mos. and I was all set to make it forever until he pulled the full court press. So, now it's been 26 years. We do ALOT together, as I said before. BUT, we also do things seperate of each other. Yep, he brings me flowers when I least expect it. He takes off a day in the middle of the week to spend just with me. We have a Saturday night date night, no exceptions! We hold hands most places we go. I hide cards in his briefcase, we cuddle alot, .......AND we've been through alot.

Let's explore exactly what your wife will find out there if she goes looking. It's not the girls entirely, because if that were the case, why not just go on as she is? Excitement translates to "men". Another guy to make her life exciting. Well, why can't it be you? I know, I know, you do have other responsibilities, but no marriage works without "working" at it. Oh, it can survive, if that's all you want. But, I'd much rather be happy with a "best friend" type spouse.

I don't know why, all of a sudden I think this is going to be a temporary thing with her. It's not a thing from her childhood, or any of that hocus pocus stuff. I think it's just plain old "God, is this all there is?" stuff that rolls in as you are wading through "Good morning, what do you want for dinner, what's on t.v. tonight, good night....Good morning, yada, yada, yada."

I thought she would like a female counselor. At least in the beginning. May not continue if the counselor doesn't agree with her behavior. Are you going to see this counselor with her also, or is it just hers?

Hang in there a while longer Ranmar, it's okay to be pissed. The thing is, it's pretty obvious you love her. Go out with your guy friends again, remember you had a good time. Maybe surprise her some evening by telling her you're taking off the next day and you and she are going for a long ride (somewhere you both would enjoy?)

chill for a bit....and yes, this is just my opinion.

April 12, 2001
11:37 pm
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Molly
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Alena,
Congrats for the 26 years, I don't know where in the postings or when but I did the ah ha thing with Ranmar's wife, that is why I asked if maybe he wasn't the father of my girls. I went through exactly what she is dealing with. I was married to mr. corporate move up the ladder, had it all, but a sense of self. I pulled out , there were some other issues too, but I really screwed up, I wasn't alone, but I know the cost. hind sight is 20/20 vision. At least with hubby #2 he got into the game before it was to late. I hate to compare, but damn, I forced the wrong hand when I had it, and could have had an intact family. My guy is great, but it would have been 28 years last march, we were only married 15 years, but, at least I have some solid years with this guy and he may be slow, but proving to be worth the effort, and I swear, its tough, because I would be single too, if he would have just let me alone. Life to bad there are no instruction manuels that really tell it the way it is, or are there?

April 13, 2001
8:14 pm
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Alena
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Molly, ......if there was a manual,....would we read it?

Thanks for the congrats.......how long have you been married this time?

I don't think you can ever just let a marriage coast. Not mine anyway, and not any that I know. It goes along cool and then one or the other is asked to bend, so bend or break. It's a choice. Then the other is challenged, so it all depends, how much do you think you have to lose, how much do you have to win? Oh, after 26 years it gets easier, so much more comfortable, but it still calls for choices....maintenance.

Life is just a series of choice...
don't we all stumble, roll around trying to get up, then manage to stand and bam, there's another choice staring us in the face.

April 13, 2001
8:22 pm
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Alena
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Ranmar, I saw a great Oprah show today, ..maybe you saw it? ....Uh, do you watch Oprah? It's kind of a chick thing, but hey some guys watch it, they just don't admit it. 🙂

Anyway, there were these women who found themselves emotionally drained and confused. They went on a marriage sabbatical (sp?). They went away by THEMSELVES....no husbands, no kids, no phones, no nothing. Some went to the country, some to the beach, but they all went to solitary existances.
No clubs, no girlfriends, a time to reflect, think, rejuvenate, refresh their spirits. Worked wonders for them. Is it an option your wife might embrace?

April 14, 2001
2:44 am
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ranmar1
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Alena and all,
Well, evidently my wife watches Oprah too. Today she tells me she wants to go away for about four or five days by herself, no friends, no phone calls from friends, just a time for a solitary existence, to contemplate by herself. Before I knew this was on Oprah, I met with my counselor today and told him of her request, and how I didn't want to continue to be an enabler, with no boundaries, and allow her to go on another "vacation". He suggested that I sit with her and tell her that first of all, there needs to be a budget for this trip, and second, it needs to be a solitary, self examination, not an excuse to test out the single life. If it was, then I am not going to finance another "vacation".How timely and amazing that you bring this up. He also suggested that I start doing things that I want to do, and invite her to do the same with me, not knowing if she would or not, but that I was to do it anyways, with or without. He wants me to start developing some diversions in my life, and try to have her join me. In addition, he wants me to start contemplating a time limit, as to how long I'm willing to tolerate this "mid life crisis", until there is some sign of a direction. It's interesting to hear all the similar experiences. It is somewhat comforting to know it's happened before, and some have come through it sucessfully. I'm hoping to be one of those sucessful ones where I can look back at this whole episode as a tremendous learning experience. I'm going out of town to a trade show, and will return 4/ 23.
She is in the desert with our daughters on spring break until that time too. She has girlfriends coming out all week to share the time so she will be busy. I look forward to hearing from you and follow up upon my return. Bye for now. Happy Easter to all of you.

April 14, 2001
11:11 am
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Alena
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Ranmar, I'm distressed to hear you will be "alone"(?) for Easter?

Please take care, have a good trip, try to enjoy the time away from the decisions and stress.

C ya when ya get back... 🙂

April 14, 2001
12:01 pm
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Molly
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Alena, this time 10 years, and did have that solitary time to re-evaluate. Your right about reading the book, but... Rember when all the women of the tribe once upon a culture was there to support the women through the rough times, before divorce, and do your own thing was the climate? I just don't see this in other cultures where the family is strong and the generations are there for support. The other end of that is the break down of the family once it emmigrates to America. Again, even the tone of Ranmars therapist, is not in maintaining the commitment, or compassion and understanding of the difficulties in maintaining the self in the marriage, but how long are you going to tolorate this, modern day advice, not that it is wrong or right, and there should be limits, and no vacations to try the single life, but where is the faith in holding on to the sacred. If we had gotten advice, in the first marriage, say from the church, or even if I had the guts to discuss it with my mother in law, divorce or seperation would not be an option. We were more encouraged to go our own way???????????????? My current husband and I have had many a discussion on how our prior marriages could have worked, and how much better it would have been for everyone all the way around. We both preach the destruction of divorce, like reformed smokers. to each their own in the end. its just so sad to watch the struggle, and the breakdown of the family, which I think is the foundation of our sociological problems today, or at least a big part of it. Happy Easter all

April 14, 2001
6:28 pm
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ranmar1
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Alena and Molly,
Had to respond before I head out to the airport. It seems that divorce is treated like an apartment lease, once you feel you don't want to stay, you just break the lease and move on. No real deep meaning. Where have all the people gone who want to make a committment and work at it, no matter what? Where have all the people who are morally bound to do the right thing gone? Is the sanctity of marriage and committment taken that lightly now? I look at how my wife is responding to this, in crisis mode, fluctuating between positions, and not able to think clearly. What amazes me is the diagnosis of not being able to handle a "mature relationship" made in just one session with her new counselor. Where are all the sane people of the world hiding? Happy Easter to all of you.

April 14, 2001
7:46 pm
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Molly
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Are you infering that the female counselor is sane or insane? I think that she was a mature woman who right on guessed the what's up with your wife. I think we all go through some sort of limbo and depending on who we talk to, and how much we get validated by the opinion, we give it signifigance or ignore. Again if the concept of commitment was understood, there would be no option but to work through it. Signifigance to honor cherish and respect would fortify the love, and be the structure of the agreement. Alena why am I typing this you understand, and Ranmar is in an airplane?

April 15, 2001
12:26 am
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Alena
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Molly......I'm smiling.....
I think your "passion" slip is showing. 🙂 I feel your convictions...and when he gets off the plane in a week, he'll read it.

Here's my take on "whats wrong with this world?"....it alllll started in the sixties. God bless my generation.

I don't know if I can say all that I'm thinking without rambling so I'll just blurt.

Seems to me when my parents were married,(1939), life was much more restrictive to women. What were there options? Heck, they hadn't even had the right to vote for that many years.
You could be a housewife, a nurse, a teacher, a secretary...I think that's the bulk of it. So most women became housewives and married young and maybe not wisely, to avoid becoming a spinster, an old maid. And they stayed married, period. My wonderful grandmother who was born in 1892, divorced her first husband because he beat her up. Can you imagine that? Divorced a man in the 30's simply because he beat her up. In those days, it was a national pastime to beat up your wife and kids. Anyway, I think MOST women stayed married and toughed it out for the kids, for their own financial well-being, for whatever menial reason, it all came down to lack of education, lack of opportunities without the man.Major lack of self-esteem because it was never nurtured. And lets not forget that many of the Americans were immigrants with staunch traditions. I was going to say staunch morals too, but wait a minute. I grew up in the 50's and 60's and what I found out later in my life was that all those folks my mom and dad had over on Saturday nights for parties, and the picnic friends on Sunday afternoons, and my uncles and aunts, yeah, they were married but they were all looking elsewhere for affairs and excitement and sex, and I don't know if that applied to every single guy in the US but many of them thought nothing of cheating on their wives of 20 and 30 years. But hey, they stayed married.

So then the sixties opened up a whole new can of worms for women. Free love, have sex, make love not war, do it whenever and with whomever you want. Burn the bra, fight the establishment. Wear the flowers and love everybody, literally. So now women had tons of opportunities, besides just wifey. The desire to marry and find someone to complete us is an inbred thing I think...but then after the wedding, and after all the excitement is worn off, we start to wonder if we aren't missing something because, hey, what about all those things I could be doing if I wasn't married. The sixties, the "me" generation, taught us how to be self-centered, need instant gratification, do it and don't look back. No guilt. And that's what we live, and that's what we see on TV and that's what we somehow have created in our generations we have birthed. And it's all coming back at us now. Why should committment mean anything? We only live once, there is no TIME for commitment. We need to get it ALL. Remember, when supermom was the buzzword......can she do it all? Can she have it all? Can she work and be a mom too? Hell, if you couldn't you were a complete failure. Motherhood and staying home became something you were ashamed to admit all of a sudden. Yeah, women's rights did us all a huge favor.....and then it got out of hand. You can't have it all.
But by the time we learn that, we've left a whole lot of tears and victims in our wake. Even when we literally have it all, we don't know it. It is now our nature to keep looking and searching because God forbid we miss out on something.

Commitment doesn't exist anywhere in this life. Nothing is forever. Sports figures get real popular by getting out of their comittments, companies are not committed to their employees, employees aren't committed to their companies, parents give up their children like they are worth nothing, we are a throw away society and that goes for marriage. I hate it when I sound so pessimistic but when you lay it all out it's pretty pathetic.

I can only hope I've tried to raise my sons with a bit of responsibility and a sense of "stayness", don't jump ship.....don't board that ship until you're absolutely positive you are willing to go down with it.

Okay, that's it, I'm jumping off my soapbox,tucking it under my arm and going home. it's 12:30 am and I have to put on an Easter spread for 24 dear family members in about 12 hours and look like I'm having fun doing it. 🙂

Happy Easter....hope you have a great day.

April 17, 2001
4:53 pm
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Molly
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I agree with almost all that you state, I guess many of the women got the self esteem through the cleanest house, or the best recipe, or volunteering. Truly back in those days I think we had more power, due to more energy, we didn't work 8-10 hours, and then try to do all those things. We had controll over our husbands, more than today due to shame, of course some churches supported the beatings, and families are property, but we had controll over the kids, the schools etc, that is if you got out of the house. My mother in law didn't get a drivers license till she was 45, so of course she didn't understand neither did my spouse when I wanted to pick out my own car!!!!!!!!!!! I hear you learned too, that there is no such thing as the woman of the eighties that can do it all. I had a girl friend who had to accompany her husband to city meetings, and the women shamed her for being a stay at home mom, I mean it really pushed her buttons to the point I think she almost completly abandonded mother hood. I think I too have been able to instill the values that you mentioned you instilled in your sons, I mean one is 23 and totally independent, now watching the clock for children, because she has never had a steady boyfriend, and the other, 21 on Sunday, has dated, but realizes its boys or educational goals, go figure, they heard something. There have been other times society has been this out of controll, or has there? I hope your Easter Dinner went well, ours was good, I didn't knock my self out no one seems to appreciate more than chicken nuggets, or tater tots, no that isn't what I fixed. 🙂

April 23, 2001
2:51 pm
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Molly
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Ranmar,
Article in todays Times, regarding a new book out called the Marriage Sobatical, might want to check it out, regarding women of marriage,5-50 years, and their process of being on vacation from the responsibilities of marriage, good out come ?????????????

April 25, 2001
10:16 pm
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ranmar1
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Molly and Alena,
Wow, it looks like I missed a lot while being out of town. The trip was a good break. Didn't have the constant pressure, and got to socialize with my fellow co=workers. It looks like you two have really gone deep into the evolution of where the woman stands in todays society and how she got there. From a male perspective, we are so confused ( I am at least) as to how we are suppose to behave, how are we suppose to treat our mates and what is our role in todays society. I for one, feel like I was born about twenty years too late. I still believe in the committment of marriage, the wants and needs of providing for the family, the desire to father and nurture my daughters and to be the best role model possible in teaching them they are independent thinkers and to challenge and take on what life has to offer. I still want that "Beaver Cleaver" family, where the wife and husband enjoy each other, have independent lives but still come together at the end of the day to share those experiences, and enjoy raising the kids together. Unfortunately, reality in my life is a wife that doesn't know what she wants now, after 15 years of marriage, doesn't know if she is capable of having a "mature relationship" and is now being told by her counselor, and realizing, that there are a lot of 41 year old ladies with two daughters out there, that she isn't the only one, and that it's not all fun, excitement and thrills. Her counselor even asked her if she is prepared to move on again to the next relationship, knowing it will eventually fall into that "mature" mode. Her counselor said to her that she finds a lot of anger in my wife, that needs to be worked out, and that she will know if and when she is done if it comes to that in our relationship. My counselor wants me not to "prepare for the worse case scenario" but to try and expand my horizons with friends, formulate some new hobbies, stay healthy and just try to maintain and be patient for now. I have come to the conclusion that our relationship is just one aspect of her total problems, and my counselor said that this should be a sign as to how much I still care for her, to be by her side while she works through her challenges. Wow, what a lot........I truly enjoy your feedback. I do get quite a lot out of it, thank you. It's good to be back.

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