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Help Me Please x 2!!!
February 4, 2001
11:35 am
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ranmar1
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I've created this new thread, because the orignial "Help Me Please" was getting too long. This is the weekend I have to spend with my daughters on my own, while my wife is in Las Vegas with her girlfriends, what I feel is running away from her true problems.
My daughters and I went to Temple friday night, out for a doughnut and milk Saturday morning, softball practice Saturday afternoon, out to a nice restaurant for dinner last night, and off to my parents house for a visit today. My oldest daughter actually held my hand and arm last night as we walked out of the restaurant. That feeling was immeasurable. And my wife doesn't think she is missing out by taking off, or thinks I make her feel guilty by my relationship with my daughters? What a loss on her part. As a matter of fact, this whole thing of taking off or spending time away from me is a loss for her. I'm really starting to feel good about myself in general. I no longer take on her problems as mine. From my previous thread, I'm going along my theory that her pulling away and protecting herself from emotional intimacy is a result of her childhood molestation. It gives me validation that it really wasn't me, but her. The therapist says that I have to use discretion and timing as to when I should bring up this theory, but only in front of him during a couple counseling. This whole revelation in my mind, has been an enormous weight lifted as to what I thought was the reasoning for her feeling of wanting to pull away.

February 4, 2001
10:17 pm
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chica123
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k wow that was long. what it thinkl it sounds like is your wife needed a break. i think every mother needs a break from her kids once and a while. but i don't know what has happened in the past. I think its great that you are spending time with your daughters considering that i am a daughter and i would love to spend more time with my dad. just be happy you only see your kids everyother weekend like i see my dad! i think you need to talk to you wife about how your feeling becuase what is a marrage with out commumication? anyways i hope this will help coming from a daughter.
chica123

February 5, 2001
1:03 pm
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Cici
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ranmar,

did you ever ask the therapist why you seemed to be the only one who has to do exercises and homework?

February 5, 2001
1:24 pm
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gingerleigh
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Good for you Ranmar1!!! Keep focusing on yourself and your family. I'm happy that you are feeling better.

February 5, 2001
5:51 pm
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Alena
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I'm glad you're feeling so much better Ranmar, but ......sorry, there's always a BUT, isn't there??

Does this newfound trauma of your wife's make you feel that she's probably coming back to you once she gets it all figured out? Has she said as much?? I really don't want to rain on your good feelings, really, I don't. I've followed your thread since the beginning and I'm so glad you are happy with the girls and finally feeling good. It's just that it seems like if the trauma is her reason for her distancing herself from you, but she loves you, why isn't she trying to work through it and bring the man she loves closer?? Is partying going to help her get over the molestation? Maybe I'm just dumb about this, I really don't want to see you go backwards in this because now she has a real concrete "excuse".

No matter what her reason for not wanting to be touched, what about just being "nice" and a wife, and being a mom?? What about those common everyday civil characteristics??

I'm afraid either the therapist, or you are sending yourself down some yellow brick road.

Continue to be strong, independent, compassionate of course, just don't let yourself be stepped on again in the name of her therapy.

Sorry if this makes you feel the least bit icky, I don't mean to.

February 5, 2001
7:32 pm
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Molly
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Did you do these things before she started to act out, or is it her absence that has enabeled you to be there for your daughters?

February 6, 2001
11:36 pm
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lost soul
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Hi ranmar, how things getting on? hope to hear some good news from you.

February 11, 2001
1:44 pm
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ranmar1
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Hi everyone. I was travelling on business to the Pacific Northwest this past week, brrrrr, it was cold.
Anyways, I left on Tuesday and came back last night. In the meantime, my wife went to school Thursday night from 6-9:30, went out for a drink with her girlfriend on Friday night at 9:30, after dropping off our youngest one from a pizza party, and last night, came home at 10:30 after going to a reunion party from her old employer. Remember, last weekend she went to Las vegas with her old working buddies, and this coming Thursday until Saturday, she is going to take another one of her wonderful friends to Mexico for the friends' birthday, since the friend doesn't want to spend it with her husband. (sounds familiar?). What about us as a family? I am being very civil around the house, but inside, I am so pissed off I could scream. I'm going to asked the therapist this Friday (my one on one, hers is on the 13th)how I am suppose to cope with this anger. How in the heck can she justify her behavior and how can he not see something wrong here too? I understand about giving some space, but am I wrong to think this is ridiculous? As far as I'm concerned, she already has separated mentally. It's just the physical part that hasn't happened. If I bring up this crap to her about her constantly running off, she accuses me of trying to be controlling. Is this, or am I looking at this whole thing wrong?
How can she be working on our relationship when to me, she appears to be digging a bigger hole, and creating more animosity?
I'd love some feedback on the above. Hope everyone is doing well.......

February 11, 2001
10:12 pm
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lost soul
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Well, I understand your feelings. I have been through the same situations when I try to be "tolerance" and all others means to save my marriage.

But today, I am no longer looking forwards for this day( the day when my husband change )because my love for him has ceased. The miseries and hurts which he has brought upon me is too much to bear & forgives.

I guess for your situations there are still chances for things to work out with the assistance from the conselling right? hope to hear from you soon.

Take care.

February 11, 2001
11:07 pm
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Alena
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Hi Ranmar, glad to hear you've been traveling. Get some fresh air and fresh faces and fresh thoughts while away.

I haven't understood your therapist's
therapy right from the start. How can you call it marriage counseling? It just sounds like a vacation from reality for her. Bring this up to your therapist like you plan. You realize you are financing all of her single life fun? The trips, the clothing, the Mexican birthday parties? If I could ignore all my marital responsibilties, continue to live without any boundaries, not work on saving my marriage and dealing with my spouse on OUR problems, and someone was paying for all my fun, I might find that hard to give up also.
If I didn't care about my husband's pain.

You know you aren't trying to control her. As marriage partners, we expect our feelings to be respected. She is throwing around a common cry she probably heard from a counselor or one of her girlfriends. I have a feeling she knows it's not true also,
but if it works, hey, use it.

Stay cool, see what the counselor says. I really can't see her reacting positively to any show of anger towards her from you. I think she would just use it to further blame you. More reason why she needs to get away, and you don't understand her, and yada yada yada. If you want a reaction from her, put a stop on the charge cards, the checking and savings account and any other free-range money she can get her hands on.

Take care, stay strong....keep your head...have a good week.

February 12, 2001
6:11 pm
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Molly
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Ditto, ditto, and more ditto, why should she change, this is a grown up Disneyland, Did she pick the therapist or did you? Could be a feminazi agenda??? Sorry but the feminazi's ruined my life with confusion then after my life and family was destroyed got my head together, just a thought.

February 13, 2001
4:51 pm
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ranmar1
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Hi everyone. Here is my latest update. Today, I called our counselor to discuss a couple of points I wanted him to be aware of. I forgot, she was meeting with him later today, so maybe, the timing was good that I called. I told him I've been doing a lot of thinking, and wrote down some points I need to read to him. Here is what I read to him.
1. I don't want to continue to support or tolerate her adult disneyland lifestyle of taking off,going out drinking with the girls, going to parties, buying expensive perfume or clothes, if no effort on her part is being made to work things out between us.
2. I don't want to tolerate her leaving the kids at night by themselves while I'm away on business.
3. She appears to be on a vacation from reality, living without any boundaries, without any respect for my feelings.It's all about "me, I, whatever makes me good."
4. I feel she is digging a deeper hole with more insult, pain and animosity.
5. She appears not to be making any effort to explore and work on us. She said she has a problem coming up with something to talk about in counseling during her one on one.
6. She appears to be trying to push all my hot buttons trying to make me the one to walk.
He listened, and responded that I am obviously very upset and coming to my wits end that I'm not seeing any movement on her part. He suggested that tomorrow night, at a Valentine dinner, I initiate a conversation (nicely) of telling her how much I am working at our relationship, and that I would appreciate it if she could show some respect to my feelings. If she ask for specifics, he said to avoid them until we have a couple counseling next week. I also am to bring these points to discuss with him for my one on one this Thursday.
Yes, I'm very angry now, however, I've not discussed it with her because the counselor said if I did (before he said this) it could push her away and have opposite results. I told him today, what's the difference, I don't have too much more to lose anyways. I have to have restraint and work through this anger right now. She is off to Mexico this Thursday-Sat.with one of her loser girlfriends again, while the kids are off school this Friday for holiday. I will take the Friday off and spend it with them. Thanks for letting me vent.
Best to all..........

February 13, 2001
6:10 pm
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Molly
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I sure hope you have meds for that dinner tommorow night, and be sure to avoid alcohol, things seem to pop out under even the slightest influence when anger is suppressed, I would hate to see the salad tossed. Be cool, be calm, be methodical, and again, maybe be medicated.

February 13, 2001
7:15 pm
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Alena
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Molly, what a great suggestion! Medication, NOT conversation. LOL
There have been so many times I wished I was medicated before I initiated a discussion that went ..... awry.

But anyway, Ranmar, what can one more silent night hurt? I wonder if this therapits (obvious slip of the tongue?) tells your wife not to upset you. Hmmm...........

I think you are on the right track. Vent, vent, vent. I kinda wish that we could all take you to lunch and discuss this. It's so easy to give you advice on your LIFE and then not be there when the pains set in. But you have to know that you are doing the right thing by questioning her motives. This therapy doesn't seem to be bringing the two of you together, which is what I know you had hoped for in the beginning.

Whatever the outcome, isn't it great to be there for your girls. Fathers and daughters are so special. They will always remember your strength and your class during this hard time.
And they will bless you for it.

I'll be thinking of your Valentine dinner tomorrow night. Like Molly said, stay cool and calm and strong, Wishing you good luck....and a peaceful evening.

February 13, 2001
9:54 pm
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lost soul
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ranmar1

My thoughts are with you at this moment.

February 14, 2001
7:23 pm
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Molly
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I only suggested the meds so there could be conversation. He is angry, and rightfully so. I just know how some of those repressed anger dinners have gone, and wished I had been medicated 🙂

February 15, 2001
6:56 pm
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ranmar1
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You people are so great. You are always giving me the best input I have had, sometimes better than the therapist. She came home Tues after her one on one, and said it was her best session, but she was sick to her stomach and wanted to talk to me about it that night. That night, we sat by ourselves, as she proceeded to tell me that she discovered today that she doesn't want to be around when I'm home, and wants to be home when I'm not. I rebuffed this bunk by telling her she isn't even home when I'm out of town, and leaves my daughters. She also informed me that her main problem is that she doesn't feel the "thrill, excitement or lust anymore"-her words exactly. She said years ago she felt comfortable in the relationship, but not now. I told her the comfort is a sign of maturity, and wanting what she wants now is not realistic, juvenille, and the same as a crack addict, always looking for the thrill and excitement by getting stoned, then, constantly needing to get the high more and more, which is exactly what she has been doing by going (I mean running away). I'm so angry right now, I finally broke down and called a family law attorney. I'm going to meet with him next Tuesday. I'm going to start taking a proactive approach, start cutting off her money supply to keep feeding her "thrills". I'm going to initiate conversation with him about separation. She says the other night she wishes she could pack her bags and take a two month vacation from all of this. I told her she has been on a vacation for the longest time already. Valentine's Day was just going through the motions. Anybody want a dozen roses given to them by me? She was accepting, and that was about it. She's off the Mexico with her girlfriends today, back on Saturday. This means, that as of the 17th, she will have been gone 6 days total this month, and with those included, 9 nights out.I truly think she is a psychotic, self destructing person. I'm almost at my limit as to how much more I can take of this. I have my one on one this afternoon. I'll write back later.
God bless all of you..........

February 15, 2001
9:34 pm
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Alena
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Ranmar, take a deep breath.

You've had a very "emotionally busy" couple of days. I'm sure along with your anger comes hurt.

But, I think you will feel a sense of reassured self-confidence by taking it into your own hands and seeing an attorney. When someone else is leading us around by our hearts it gets mighty exhausting and confusing.
I think I see the picture becoming alot clearer to you.
I believe you are doing all the right things. And you've done them all in the right order. You've tried so hard to save your marriage, now it's time to save yourself.

If you would like to send those roses to someone, check out the "Happy Valentines Day" thread......and take your pick! You're too good to be true.

Stay strong, sending you good, peaceful vibes.

February 15, 2001
11:20 pm
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ranmar1
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Alena, thank you for such kind words. It's nice to hear from people who can appreciate someones sincerity and hard work. I met with the therapist today. I told him how angry I was and that I don't know how much more of this I can take. I did not tell him I made an appt with the attorney.I need to go to the attorney for my own peace of mind and to start preparing for a worse case scenario. The session today consisted of the following advice: During the next week, I am to tell my wife that I have been working extremely hard, have been very upset and emotional and ask my "wife" to show me some kind of sign that she is willing to work at fixing our relationship, and that I am going to be interpreting her actions as the sign that she wants me to have. It is not to be made in a threatening manner, just an informative one. Also, I've been guided to ask her if she is willing to attempt to regain the "thrill, excitement and lust" with me or if it is a dead issue. This too will be an indication of what she wants to do. I was told (knowingly) that she is in a very conflicting state of mind but that her confessions to me was a positive step in that she is opening up (no matter how painful it is to me). I was told not to act too prematurely in any direction, and try not to react on emotion only. It's pretty hard not to based on all the negative signals I've interpreted so far. Please tell me this, is it that hard for a woman to see how much someone truly cares and loves them, and that their whole life as well as those around them can be effected by their actions? I told her that here is someone that loves her so much and is there to lean on for support or just be there, but she doesn't see it through the fog she has created. I think I am entering a new phase of this whole thing. Stay tuned.

February 16, 2001
3:23 am
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gingerleigh
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You know what Ranmar? What you describe is a human thing, not a man thing or a woman thing. It seems to be a more common thing with men withdrawing, but then again, I'm a woman and notice that pain more acutely. It might be just as common flip-flop, where the woman loses interest and pulls away.

Human nature... as sad as it seems, it is human nature to seek that which is difficult to attain and reject that which is offered to us, struggle-free. It's stupid, but it really seems like the more you try with someone else who isn't willing to try, the less likely they will be to return your affection.

Don't know what to tell you. Wish I could promise that things will get better with her but I can't. You will come out of this stronger and more stable and more capable of love than ever before. You may also come out of this alone, but you and your children will be better off for it.

My heart goes out to you, I truly understand what you are going through. Let me offer one thing... even if you do lose her over this, your life will go on, and it will be better. I'm going through it now, and sometimes it sucks large, but most of the time I'm glad to be at this level of self-realization. Things will be OK.

February 16, 2001
4:32 am
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lost soul
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I strongly agreed to what gingerleigh had said.

It is not easy to deal with a wayward spouse. It takes years sometime.The hurts & emotional abuse that one party has to endure because of trying to save a marriage and for the sick of the children is cruel and torture.

I know how you feel now, the anger, the rage, the sour . all kinds of mixed feelings, up & down, up & down. It will be over....... but it takes time.

Take care, you have a good job, educated and a pair of beautiful daughters. I strongly believe very soon you will overcome this difficult pharse of your life.

Cheers

February 16, 2001
8:20 pm
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ranmar1
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I am going to approach the subject of telling her that from here on out, I need to see some kind of sign, signal whatever, that she wants to work on us, and that I am to start interpreting her actions as the signal. Also, I will approach the question of asking if she wants to try and regain her feelings of "thrills, excitement and lust" with me. If not, then I have to truly think if I want to continue with someone who doesn't want to try. I will keep you updated this week about the outcome. I hope you all have a great weekend.

February 17, 2001
11:57 am
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Molly
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The next sign that you get, after your rezquest, why don't you mention that you are making the appointment with legal counsel, as her behavior is fearful, and you can't afford to risk the families liability with her erratic behavior. Even though we know that you are going to protect your financial assetts, as they are your's now that she is not participating in the family, however the lawyer will tell you that it is 50/50 and you may be forced to pay big $$ for long time. Make sure you secure custody of the girls due to her neglect, and when she mentions excitemnt, ask her if you could arrange for her to bungy jump, or jump out of a plane? Stay focused, and disconnected from HER, drama. She so sounds like a 15 year old. I'm sorry, but make sure you protect your heart, and finances as best you can.

February 17, 2001
2:58 pm
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ranmar1
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Molly,
I'm not telling her about my appt. with a lawyer. Nor did I say anything to the counselor. I'm going for my own peace of mind, and to have the ammunition should I need it in the future. It'time I start being a little more proactive, and make her aware, per the counselor, that she is now going to have to be more accountable for her actions. I can't be concerned with her thinking or feelings anymore, only how I interpret them. Then, only I will be the one to determine whether I pursue legal action. At least I will know what my options are.

February 19, 2001
9:58 am
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Raj
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Hello is there anybody who can help me out of a conflict

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