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Help Me Please- Where is everyone?
July 27, 2001
1:06 pm
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Molly
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All good advice above,
I think the letter is a great idea, wish so many times that I had done that with my ex's parents, I would even send it now, you need to get it out, and its a very theraputic release for you that can help you so much in the future.
You are sooooooo sooooooo right about life in Orange County, in Southern California in general, it is so distorted here, so evil, so don't get me started. the courts would only order the counseling if the parents are really acting out in the custody arrangements, the girls are old enough to say where and with whom they want to live, period, and the court will interview them individually and together, as well as the parents to decide what is in the best interest. Based on the conversations the court can order a psych evaluation, but that sorta depends on how far the parents want to drag things out, my sisters boy friend has been going on 4 years, the parents have their attourneys, the kids have theirs, as well as respective therapists, can you imagine the cost of all this churning over all this time? Your right the courts do not care about most of the stuff, and will drag it out just as far as the parents want to churn it.
Randy there are so many things that you can do to protect your self from financial constraints, just be smart and do send the letter.
The welcome to adult hood is that she has finally made a choice, and is going to stick with it, vs continue in limbo which is a safe immature unhealthy place to bei.e., blaming others for her life's situation. So, now as an adult, having made said choice she must deal with the consequences of that choice, and take responsibility for it, including what it is going to take for her to be independent.

July 27, 2001
11:52 pm
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ranmar1
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Thank you all. Today, I came home from UCLA hospital, my step dad had angioplaty surgery, doing well. When I came home, she was there. I'm so angry at her, I don't care to even converse with her. She asked how he was doing, and I told her briefly. As I looked at her, I thought, what a faker, just going through the motions of caring. She looked at me and said we should think about telling our daughters this weekend about us. I said she was right, and that we need to start dividing up the assets this weekend too. Then, since I was so pissed, I told her that since she hasn't done it, I was calling my atty for an appt. to file, and then I left the room, called and left a message, stating I wanted to see him so I can proceed. She then came upstairs and said she was going to the movies by herself. I said to have a good time, and off she went. I've been visiting the Narcissism web sites with postings there. It is so encouraging to now take a proactive approach and rid myself of this sick individual, who I feel, has sucked the life out of me. I'm now realizing, she never initiated intimacy, never once reached out to hold my hand, never once came up and gave me a hug, I did all of this our entire marriage. I wonder if I am so angry at myself more than her, for allowing myself to compromise and say this was okay, giving with no expectations of a return of affection. I'm so angry at myself I think for allowing myself to be duped and conned as long as I was. I know Molly and Alena, how was I to know. The web site had a posting that said better to be dumped by a N (Narcisstic)person than to dump one.If an N offerrs to leave your life, definitely do not try to talk them out of it. Consider it an act of God. Proof that God loves you. I guess I should be thankful that she is calling it quits and moving on to the next "victim".

July 28, 2001
12:41 pm
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Alena
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Don't be too angry at yourself, it happens to the best of us. It's called blind loyalty, blind trust, blind optimism, you want it SO BAD to be okay that you just put your "hmmm?" intuition aside and go with the flow. But there is that nagging.."hmmmm?..." that wants to surface and it can't.

You're in control again, being proactive, that's the part that drives you, makes you feel good, and will help you survive it. Good luck this weekend, You're not answering me though.......are you doing anything for YOU?

July 29, 2001
12:47 pm
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Molly
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The problem of dropping a N person, is that they won't let it happen, it truly is your gift that she is leaving you, ttttrust me, I know. that is my guy to the tee, and every time I zig he is zagging, if I zag, he is zigging, it is confusing as hell, so bad things happen to good people, its our opportunity to rise to our character when this happens, and sounds like your character is in tact, yea, I know so it doesn't feel good, hurts like hell, and you wonder what next, but your in controll, she is a reactive emotional mess, that hasn't seen the worst of it yet. Just wait until ms princess goes out looking for a job, ehhheehehhhe

July 29, 2001
4:45 pm
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ranmar1
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The future X and I discussed telling the kids tomorrow. I couldn't help but tell her I thought Earl had been waiting on the sidelines for over a year, and she agreed, but said she didn't want that kind of relationship with him. I told her I didn't beleive her, and told her how angry I was at myself for being duped into allowing everything to happen and compromise by thinking it was okay. I asked her if she thought she was a good judge of character, and she said yes, why? I responded as to what kind of character is she and Earl, to have been doing what they have, behind my back, and now going to hurt everyone, including our own girls. This is such a trait of a Narcisstic person, no deep feelings or empathy, not able to see things through someone elses eyes. Here is a great description of my soon to be X from the Narcisstic web page. She is a Body Shaper. It says "A Body Shaper looks good. But the assets are all external. The values are familiar: image, fashion glamour, youth and beauty. This form of narcissim is so much part of our times that it is hardly obvious. There is an exaggerated need for admiration. Characteristics include self esteem linked to body image, a nagging perfectionism, and ab obsession with the perfect body. It is usually easy to attract people. The problem is in the long term relationship. How can such a beautiful person have problems. Shouldn't it be easy?The Body Shaper tends to externalize internal problems, as if looking more beautiful will solve anything. Denial is the most common defense. It is a refusal to see what eventually extends to trying to fight the aging process. This is the ultimate Narcissistic injury. The beauty of the Body Shaper maybe only skin deep. The inner world can be empty and bleak. The intensity and depth of need is frightening. Curiously, this can lead to both throw away relationships and a deep dependency on an intimate other. This emotional need can be smothering and controlling, leading to a growing crisis and eventually a sudden ending- with some desperate consequences.
Whew, is this my soon to be x or what?
Sorry it was so long, but this is my discovery. Now I'm working on how to heal from a Narcissitic relationship.
Randy

July 30, 2001
1:23 pm
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Molly
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Randy, so much of that is true, but as well part of the culture here. Most of what I saw when I left the circle of money that I was in before I made the left turn into my current hell. There is a part of that which is the drive to maintain. In some areas it is not as signifigant, however its also what you discussed about where you lived, a non reality.
When I first moved out to San Bernardino area 13 years ago, you didn't see the its not who you are but what you look like attitude, but it didn't take long, it seems to come with prosperity. You don't get so much of that in different areas, especially where there is no money, or in artsy communities, its a social standard in Orange county, LA county, and all of this area any more, so how do you recover, when it is an epidemic? My ex, and my oldest daughter, are there, its who they know, who they saw, what they bought, how much they paid, as well as the endless physicial this's and that's that they are doing to maintain the eternal youth, and appearance of well being. They think unless it is a who's who's event that social work is for the stupid, who don't know their value, and make a choice to be under achievers. So, if you find a cure publish it after the divorce, you'll make a ton of money.

July 30, 2001
8:47 pm
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ranmar1
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Molly,
You are right. We don't know any different. We were brought up in this environment, the superficial. Now I think my soon to be x has been so caught up in the lifestyle, she truly beleives there is more out there. Isn't it coincidental, that her new, "just male friend" has a home in Florida as well as here, in Coto de Caza, belongs to the country club, and travels. Obvioulsy, money gives off a distinct scent. Some people are more sensitive in their smell, as my soon to be x. All she has to do is snap her fingers when she is ready, and Earl will be there, heaping tons of whatever materialistic things she desires. If he has any brains, he'll then ask why no deep emotional return? Ofcourse, knowing how high is moral standards are, maybe that is wishing too much.,,,,,OOOPs, there I go focusing on the two idiots. I don't know how to begin to focus on myself. I've gone too long focusing on her. I've become way to dependent on her. And now I know that all she has done is throw scraps out to me, to keep me there. Once I know how to start focusing on me, I know I can move off this stagnant position of being so angry and hurt. One of my male friends said yesterday, you are acting like a girl, so emotional, so sensitive, so hurting. I looked at him and asked if he ever experienced the feelings, and if not, he's missing out!!!!!!So, group, how do I start? How do I begin to get my own life back and learn who I am? How do I learn what I like and don't like?

July 30, 2001
9:48 pm
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Molly
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Go down to Fashion Island, and hit the cosmetic department, duh, the mens area, flirt shamelessly, look for a new fragrance, ugh ugh my ugh wife just left me and my two TEENAGE DAUGHTERS, I'm starting over and need a new fragrance, then change department stores, now, you can do all of this at Nordstroms, but keep it high end, what's good for ex, and Earl, is good for you too, then find the female shoe saleswoman, and the same bit, now over to the Tommy Behama shirts, and ask the cutie if this is the right print, and color for you, and your new life. Then you go right over to the Salon, and ask if they take walkings, that you need a manicure, yes men get them and it gives you a chance to vent, they are almost like therapists. if you really want to suck it up, go for the pedicure in the spa chair, it vibrates, you can listen to music, and get a foot massage, which, could make you forget about intercourse, a whole new meaning to feeling good, and you could also vent here as well, just a buff, no polish. Start practicing on your want ad, and all about you, there is the dating service out there called just lunch, it can ease you back into the scene with out much effort, and short visits, and like duh, you do belong to the gym, right, go to yoga, pilates, and spinning to check out the chicks, and mope a little, they will cheer you up, not dating, just mourning, ok. then go to the best grocery store around, where they offer service,meat or fish dept. find the female and do the story, ugh my wife just left me and I don't know much about cooking, she ugh did it all and now I guess , well, what is the best, and how do I cook it, ok, so its manipulation, but its a start. Get tickets to go see, a concert, like I guess Gypsie Kings are in Santa Barbara in a couple of weeks, take the girls rent a room, and go shopping. Go see Croby Stills and Nash at the Greek comming up this month, go to venice beach, go to Julian, take the Kids, Ensenada, Las Rosas, just as you come into town, take the kids, play, and take a book while they are at the pool, I don't think the rate has gone up to much, I have a cupon for 2nights for 200 including massage, but then again, I just rented the best beach house just north of Rosarito. Just do and get off holding pattern. I am sure you can get the hang of it real quick ah ah theraputic art class, where you can paint your feelings, Laguna ???????
You still must be accountable due to the kids, but don't come home when expected, call the kids, but go have fun, take a class at Saddleback, or where ever. Just do it.

July 30, 2001
10:08 pm
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Alena
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Molly, you should be a recreation director on the LoveBoat!! ha! Ranmar, how can you NOT do all that stuff?? Now I wish I was YOU, and I just got myself under control wishing I was Gingerleigh!! What a night...where's the Puffs?

July 31, 2001
11:34 am
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ranmar1
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Wow, I'm so out of it I wouldn't know if I would have the guts to do all of this. I like the ideas about taking the girls on these little trips though. Here I am in sales, but when it comes to getting out there on a single social level, I'm an infant at it. I guess once the soon to be x moves out, I can start doing some of the above. In the meantime, I just mope around magnifying the good times and not realizing all the bad. I need to put things into perspective. I don't think it would be fair of me to lay this crap on another person yet. What's my problem? Am I too overly sensitive? Am I just stuck here thinking about what I am going through? Who knows. By the way, the soon to be x goes to Saddleback, now wanting to be an Interior Designer. That's in between the golfing, shopping, lunches,the little mini trips and obviously the rendevous with Earl. I haven't sent the letter to her parents yet. I'm waiting to finalize our $$ amount. I talked with her yesterday, and I think we are going to settle at 4000K per month. I tried for about 3000K. This is for both spousal support and child support, with shared custody. I guess you can't put a price on cutting the chords and moving on with my life. This is so unfair, but what is fair anymore? I'm not ready to go out there in the real world and try to develope or meet a potential new relationship. It's too early. I would love it if we could all just meet together and have coffee and talk. Heck, we already know each other. I don't think there is a coffee house that would put up with us though. Too much caffeine flowing from one group. Uugggg, I need a cup of coffee. It's too early this morning to be dwelling on this. Have a great day everyone.....:) Randy

July 31, 2001
1:46 pm
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gingerleigh
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Ranmar, watch out for the gals at the gym... all of us are definitely suckers when it comes to sweet guys who are used and abused and *especially* those that aren't looking to get into our bike pants *grin*

July 31, 2001
7:38 pm
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Molly
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See, you went right to relations in your head, vs simple ego stimulation, shame on you. In my sales meeting this morning, they said if you don't have a dream, then you are just living in your problems, so make a dream. Make a trip with those girls, create some plans and stick to them.
Interior design, hmmmm that is where my ex met most of his dates, between that and the counter at Nordstroms, hehe. Men who can afford designers, have money now don't they, and we thought she needed an education.
I sure hope that is a declining payment plan, with a portion of the money going into a college fund for the girls other wise, its fake nails and highlighted hair, designer shoes, and a vacation or two, that is if her rent for the beach front apt isn't to steep.
I think the coffee house should be in Seattle, maybe just Gingerleighs balcony, besides I think Alena needs to get off her fence a day or two.

July 31, 2001
8:03 pm
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Alena
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Why, thank you Molly, I am getting rather sick of the view from up here.
Need to stretch my legs......but Seattle? That's about 30,000 miles away, as the crow flies.

Bike pants?????? Ilove it! 🙂

Ranmar, you are going to be SO,SO busy with the chicks once the stuff starts. You've been out of the dance for so long.....hold onto your socks, they're probably gonna roll.

July 31, 2001
8:08 pm
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gingerleigh
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Did I mention that within 2 blocks of my apt, there is not 1, but 2 Starbucks, 2 Tully's, and 1 Seattle's Best Coffee shops? I'm not kidding. And people wonder why I'm so hyper... the caffeine just hangs heavy in the air around here.

I'm telling ya, Seattle is quite the life... our winters are gray and weary, but the summers are gorgeous. Our winters explain the proliferation of coffee houses, keeps us at an even keel when we're on our 120th day of rain round about February. It's all good... and the tourists are *so* darn cute... (*cork*)

July 31, 2001
8:57 pm
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ranmar1
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Gingerleigh,
How do you show a girl that you are sincere, honest, trusting and just wanting to have some kind of intelligent relationship (while not focusing on the bike pants?) Going to the gym is a viable option for me. I'm in pretty good shape, at least I've been told. I guess I just don't know how to make the first gesture. God, I sound like I'm a geek in high school or something. I'm just so out of practice. Maybe I should ask my x to be, how to flirt, she is so good at it. Believe me, there is way too much caffeine going on up in Seattle. I once tried to fill my rental car up with a Starbucks and Tullys. They both had too much octane though.
Randy

July 31, 2001
9:01 pm
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ranmar1
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By the way, the next posting will be at Help Me Please x2. This one is getting too long. Anyone have a nice single, level headed, honest, caring, sincere, age 30-40 range lady, daughter, granddaughter they would like to introduce to an honest, 47yrold, loving dad,sincere, caring, trusting, wanting to provide for soon to be single guy, in southern california? God, this looks like one of those stupid personal ads I've seen, trying to figure out which are real and which are a bunch of crock. Off to Help Me Please x2.....
Randy

July 31, 2001
9:03 pm
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Molly
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Quit staring at the bike pants, and look all the way up yea, past those, her eyes then start your sentences.
What is up with this coy man like behavior, you don't have a problem talking to us, of course if you saw me in my bike pants you would be stuttering.

July 31, 2001
9:14 pm
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Alena
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Wait a minute, didn't we just do a whole thread about "soon to be single" guys? Ahem, uh, Randy, you may want to reword that....

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