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Help, I love a Narcissist
February 17, 2006
3:11 am
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Cinamac
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I like what worried Dad said.. about loving your guitar, pizza. Like Pizza and Guitar, the narcissist does not, cannot love back. No matter what you do.

My ex thinks he loves me...no he needs me. And I set that up- that codendendency thing. And I will never do that again. Need is not love. Fixing is not love. Changing someone is insane. Being a punching bag for someone who had been victumized as a kid is not love. Marriage is not the answer. Eventually, even pot isn't even enough to keep it together.

I learned that I needed to be the change I wanted to see.

All the best

February 17, 2006
3:28 am
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revelation
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ReadyTofly, can you honestly tell me you love this man? Someone who is controlling you so much? Controls what you eat? He sounds like a spoiled brat as well. Honestly this man doesn't deserve a woman like you. Narcissists are mysoginists as well, usually because they see every woman as their mother...he sounds textbook. Whidbey is right, RUN don't WALK from this man, he will destroy.

If you leave, don't expect him to let go easily. He's going to try anything, in fact, if you leave he might even pretend he's not bothered just to see you fall apart and feel rejected even though it was you who left. The more stronger you stand against him, the more you refuse to listen to his pleas, shouts, screams, roars, gentle reasoning, talking to you like you are the "sick" one....everything, he'll try everything, he'll even try doing nothing, and the more you stand, the more he'll try...until he finds new supply. Do you get me? He's going to play you like a boardgame and you will have to just remain determined. Do "No Contact" from the beginning. RTF you sound like a nice lady, you sound like you have a lot to give, don't waste another minute on this guy, throw him back and go fishing for a better catch!

As for how to leave him? Gosh RTF, he doesn't deserve to have so much thought put into it...start looking for somewhere to live on the quiet. Then pack your bags and when he's not their just walk away. Leave him a note but don't make it sentimental, he'll only see your weaknesses then and start to tap away at you.

February 17, 2006
9:18 am
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ReadyToFly
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Thanks everyone, Just having a place where others understand what I am going thru helps.. ALOT... In fact, revelation - Your right, he will probably just ignore me, then try whatever, I wish I could buy him a trip somewhere and leave when he goes, but I do believe it is fixing to happen soon and I trying to stay focused on myself and my future... Thanks again, any comments helpful.. In a hard place now but looking toward the future

February 17, 2006
9:49 am
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revelation
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RTF, just remember we are here...there's lots of people here at different stages of break-ups and all of them will help.

Tak care.

February 17, 2006
10:14 am
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hocuspocus
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Do you think he can actually change or is this just another way to manipulate you? My husband is the same way, and every time we have the usual talk about how he needs to change he will do some thing that revolves around what I want for maybe a week just to satisfy me and then its back to the same old routine. I just wish he would leave, I have had enough, every time we talk about it, he just acts like nothing has happend and goes on like I want him to be in my life. He just scares me so I kind of put up with it. The worse part is that he just doesnt get it at all.

February 17, 2006
10:25 am
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shelbeegirl
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I support Whidbeys, Revelation and every ones advise to you. Literally, RUN DONT WALK away from this guy.These narcissists do not feel emotions, they do not care, they are sneaky, they are abusive in all kinds of ways. Instead of making you happy (like they promise) they will decieve you to get what they need. You might not see the whole picture now. If you marry him, you will see the picture bright and clear. I am sorry if I sound too blatant. But, I wish I knew then , what I know now. Maybe then my heart and life wouldnt be so sad. We will support you in any way we can.There is a book called HELP I LOVE A NARCISSIST also. I am reading that and it has helped understand them a lot. It might be able to help you too.

February 17, 2006
11:26 am
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ReadyToFly
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Thanks again... hocusPocus - I think he is trying a "little" change but as he tells me, in his own time, but I haven't seen the BIG changes that I need to survive this... He has no emotions and NO EMPATHY, I think he is just holding onto me because coming from my codependency background I have hung in there when no one else has.... He is a great guy but he is too much for me... It is his way..... In fact, I already have gone thru this before, Was married for 10 years but God helped me get out, I know he will NEVER CHANGE, and so you should, just like where I am at now, I HAVE TO GO< not wit till it gets better, because now we are so up & down all the time... I have to change my way of looking at life, I get wait on him to change, and even if he does, what then? I think it probably be too late for me with him anyway....

February 17, 2006
11:28 am
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ReadyToFly
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P.S. Keep on sending the supportive GET OUTTA MESSAGES, it really helps, I AM NOT ALONE IN THIS... YEAH!!!!! Thank you all.......

February 17, 2006
1:21 pm
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garfield9547
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Something interesting for all

When considering a new relationship of any kind, practice the Rule of Threes regarding the claims and promises a person makes, and the responsibilities he or she has. Make the Rule of Three your personal policy. One lie, one broken promise, or a single neglected responsibility may be a misunderstanding. Two may involve a serious mistake. But three lies says you're dealing with a liar, and deceit is the linchpin of conscienceless behavior. Cut your losses and get out as soon as you can. Leaving, though it may be hard, will be easier now than later, and less costly.
Do not give your money, work, secrets, or affection to a three-timer. Your valuable gifts will be wasted."
Dr. Martha Stout, PhD Author:

Garfield

February 17, 2006
4:21 pm
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penny lane
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The advice you received above is correct...I was in a relationship with an N..over 3 years off and on...not realizing what I was dealing with..just knew the pain I ALWAYS seemed to feel whether it be no sex, no intimacy, capricious behavior in making dates, his entitled behavior with every aspect of his life and relationships..empty promises..but finally I gave him an ultimatium..move in with me or I will date others. He moved in with me and within the first couple of days arguments ensued resulting in him sleeping on the floor...never with me under the covers ...sex perhaps once per month if I was lucky..coming and going as he pleased, lying to me..but blamely me for whatever..my insecurities he would say...finally I told him I loved him but said either he join me in counseling or leave. He said NO to counseling saying" I am afraid of what I might find out" so I litteraly kick him out. He was shocked at my actions and called me cruel and ugly. I called him at work the day I kicked him out and told him to get his things, I had taken his keys...to my house no less...he threatened me . I called the cops and put them on alert then called him back telling him of my phone call. At that point he softened and ended up coming several times to pick up the few things he had...it was his way of continuing in my life hoping I would back down...I DIDNT...It was very hard for me especially since it was just before christmas..It has been 2 months and I am beginning to feel like myself again..slowly..it will take time but I can tell you this has left an indelible mark on my soul and spirit. I am amazed at how hard I worked at trying to be loved by this man and how much turmoil I felt each day he was in my life. I will be on guard for a long time over my heart and soul.

Act quickly and decisively...make your statement and stand by it with everything you have..enlist the help of friends and family and law enforcement if you have to...but dont back down ever...

February 18, 2006
1:02 pm
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garfield9547
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I found something very interesting on

Help I Love A Narcissist

Loving a Narcissist

I believe in the possibility of loving narcissists if one accepts them unconditionally, in a disillusioned and expectation-free manner.

Narcissists are narcissists. Take them or leave them. Some of them are lovable. Most of them are highly charming and intelligent. The source of the misery of the victims of the narcissist is their disappointment, their disillusionment, their abrupt and tearing and tearful realisation that they fell in love with an ideal of their own making, a phantasm, an illusion, a fata morgana. This "waking up" is traumatic. The narcissist always remains the same. It is the victim who changes.

It is true that narcissists present a luring facade in order to captivate Sources of Narcissistic Supply. But this facade is easy to penetrate because it is inconsistent and too perfect. The cracks are evident from day one but often ignored. Then there are those who KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY commit their emotional wings to the burning narcissistic candle.

This is the catch-22. To try to communicate emotions to a narcissist is like discussing atheism with a religious fundamentalist.

Narcissists have emotions, very strong ones, so terrifyingly overpowering and negative that they hide them, repress, block and transmute them. They employ a myriad of defence mechanisms to cope with their repressed emotions: projective identification, splitting, projection, intellectualisation, rationalisation.

Any effort to relate to the narcissist emotionally is doomed to failure, alienation and rage. Any attempt to "understand" (in retrospect or prospectively) narcissistic behaviour patterns, reactions, or his inner world in emotional terms – is equally hopeless. Narcissists should be regarded as a force of nature or an accident waiting to happen.

The Universe has no master-plot or mega-plan to deprive anyone of happiness. Being born to narcissistic parents, for instance, is not the result of a conspiracy. It is a tragic event, for sure. But it cannot be dealt with emotionally, without professional help, or haphazardly. Stay away from narcissists, or face them aided by your own self-discovery through therapy. It can be done.

Narcissists have no interest in emotional or even intellectual stimulation by significant others. Such feedback is perceived as a threat. Significant others in the narcissist's life have very clear roles: the accumulation and dispensation of past Primary Narcissistic Supply in order to regulate current Narcissistic Supply. Nothing less but definitely nothing more. Proximity and intimacy breed contempt. A process of devaluation is in full operation throughout the life of the relationship.

A passive witness to the narcissist's past accomplishments, a dispenser of accumulated Narcissistic Supply, a punching bag for his rages, a co-dependent, a possession (though not prized but taken for granted) and nothing much more. This is the ungrateful, FULL TIME, draining job of being the narcissist's significant other.

But humans are not instruments. To regard them as such is to devalue them, to reduce them, to restrict them, to prevent them from realising their potential. Inevitably, narcissists lose interest in their instruments, these truncated versions of full-fledged humans, once they cease to serve them in their pursuit of glory and fame.

Consider "friendship" with a narcissist as an example of such thwarted relationships. One cannot really get to know a narcissist "friend". One cannot be friends with a narcissist and one cannot love a narcissist. Narcissists are addicts. They are no different to drug addicts. They are in pursuit of gratification through the drug known as Narcissistic Supply. Everything and EVERYONE around them is an object, a potential source (to be idealised) or not (and, then to be cruelly discarded).

Narcissists home in on potential suppliers like cruise missiles. They are excellent at imitating emotions, at exhibiting the right behaviours on cue, and at manipulating.

All generalisations are false, of course, and there are bound to be some happy relationships with narcissists. I discuss the narcissistic couple in one of my FAQs. One example of a happy marriage is when a somatic narcissist teams up with a cerebral one or vice versa.

Narcissists can be happily married to submissive, subservient, self-deprecating, echoing, mirroring and indiscriminately supportive spouses. They also do well with masochists. But it is difficult to imagine that a healthy, normal person would be happy in such a folie a deux ("madness in twosome" or shared psychosis).

It is also difficult to imagine a benign and sustained influence on the narcissist of a stable, healthy mate/spouse/partner. One of my FAQs is dedicated to this issue ("The Narcissist's Spouse / Mate / Partner").

BUT many a spouse/friend/mate/partner like to BELIEVE that – given sufficient time and patience – they will be the ones to rid the narcissist of his inner demons. They think that they can "rescue" the narcissist, shield him from his (distorted) self, as it were.

The narcissist makes use of this naiveté and exploits it to his benefit. The natural protective mechanisms, which are provoked in normal people by love – are cold bloodedly used by the narcissist to extract yet more Narcissistic Supply from his writhing victim.

The narcissist affects his victims by infiltrating their psyches, by penetrating their defences. Like a virus, it establishes a new genetic strain within his/her victims. It echoes through them, it talks through them, it walks through them. It is like the invasion of the body snatchers.

You should be careful to separate your self from the narcissist's seed inside you, this alien growth, this spiritual cancer that is the result of living with a narcissist. You should be able to tell apart the real you and the parts assigned to you by the narcissist. To cope with him/her, the narcissist forces you to "walk on eggshells" and develop a False Self of your own. It is nothing as elaborate as his False Self – but it is there, in you, as a result of the trauma and abuse inflicted upon you by the narcissist.

Thus, perhaps we should talk about VoNPD, another mental health diagnostic category – Victims of NPD.

They experience shame and anger for their past helplessness and submissiveness. They are hurt and sensitised by the harrowing experience of sharing a simulated existence with a simulated person, the narcissist. They are scarred and often suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). Some of them lash out at others, offsetting their frustration with bitter aggression.

Like his disorder, the narcissist is all-pervasive. Being the victim of a narcissist is a condition no less pernicious than being a narcissist. Great mental efforts are required to abandon a narcissist and physical separation is only the first (and least important) step.

One can abandon a narcissist – but the narcissist is slow to abandon his victims. He is there, lurking, rendering existence unreal, twisting and distorting with no respite, an inner, remorseless voice, lacking in compassion and empathy for its victim.

The narcissist is there in spirit long after it had vanished in the flesh. This is the real danger that the victims of the narcissist face: that they become like him, bitter, self-centred, lacking in empathy. This is the last bow of the narcissist, his curtain call, by proxy as it were

February 20, 2006
10:13 am
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ReadyToFly
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Garfield9547 - Thanks for the insight, it made my blood run cold... My n is non emotional and everything is great between us when I don't say anything about anything and just be there..... I hate it.... In fact I really don't understand him wanting to get married.... Just waiting on my chance and I outta there.... I think I should avoid all contact when I am out, what do you think...

February 20, 2006
10:20 am
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whidbey
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Yes, RTF, you must maintain no contact. That is essential to your healing, which, admittedly, is going to take a while. As long as there is contact, you will continue to be on that roller coaster ride and will only take you longer to move on with your life. I won't kid you. It's going to be a difficult, painful road on which you are embarking, but trust me in this too, it's the best thing you can do for yourself. Remember too, there will probably not be a "proper" closure, as you would expect in a normal relationship. It will feel like everything is just left hanging in the air, and essentially, it is. The closure must come from within yourself, and it can be done.

You've been in my thoughts, and I wish you all the best as you begin YOUR life, one filled with healthy self-love and control. Just keep remembering that no one else on this earth should have control over your life and feelings. Those are yours, and yours alone. Hugs, and please keep us posted.

February 20, 2006
10:34 am
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ReadyToFly
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THANKS WHIDBEY.... FOR EVERYTHING!!!! And I thought the Military was hard, HA HA

February 20, 2006
11:03 am
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whidbey
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No problem, RTF. Wish I didn't have this "sage" experience and advice to share with you, but, sadly, I do. No, there is nothing quite like "life with an NPD," I'm finding. However, there IS life AFTER an NPD. We just have to work hard to regain it, and it can be done. You just have to love and believe in yourself.

I would like to suggest a couple of books for you to read. One is The Betrayal Bond (can't remember author), and anther is about verbal abuse by Patricia Evans. Both can be found at Amazon.com. I would suggest reading them someplace where your N-bf can't find them. If he knows what you are contemplating, he'll may either turn on the charm to suck you back in or throw you out on the street, especially if he has new supply on the horizon. Obviously, I don't know your situation, but the above seems to be fairly typical of NPD folk, from all I've been reading.

Bottom line is this. You can read all the good thoughts/wishes, advice, etc. here, but only you truly know your situation and what you need to do. I always feel like adding a caveat to my "advice," because I am not a therapist or even know the whole picture, etc. I can only relate my experiences and story with someone, and they can take what they can or want to from it. Of course, we're always here with good shoulders to lean on... 🙂

February 20, 2006
11:14 am
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ReadyToFly
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Whidbey, Someone to listen and a shoulder to cry on is all I need, Thanks, for any advice... I have been on self discovery seems like most of my life with a few large crossroads and now I am at one of those crossroads... Because even though I am in hard place, God has used some of the most difficult times in my life for the most healing.. In fact I feel this one is really bringing me into the place I have prayed for the most, WHOLENESS, I now know I have to have boundaries in my life and that lesson has taken 20+ years to learn, so I am confident that I will be able to go on.... And having someone just to confirm this and info and support is priceless to me. When I went thru sexual abuse healing 17 years ago God used the book A CHILD WITHIN and for me it was knowing that I wasn't ALONE, so you see just knowing someone else is going thru this or has or just encouragement helps.....

February 20, 2006
11:26 am
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garfield9547
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Ready to Fly

Sorry, I only saw your question now.

Whidbey is an expert and gave you the right advice. She has been there has the T-shirt everything.

I will read everything later and then reply

Garfield

February 20, 2006
11:52 am
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whidbey
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Oh RTF, that darn sexual abuse. It has sure gotten us into some situations, hasn't it? Yep, got that T-shirt too (thanks Garfield 🙂 ). We never knew how to draw proper boundaries, did we, as ours were blurred and smeared at such a young, tender age. It's taken me a lifetime as well to get to this point.

My "short version" of me even being here is that I broke up with ex-N at the same time my father, the sexual abuser, passed away. Talk about emotions all over the place! I know, now, that my break-up with ex-N was a huge catalyst in me being able to grieve, somehow, for my father. Not the horrible person he was, and remained, all his life, but for what should and could have been with him. My ex-N was like all the bad relationships in my life rolled into one (not the pedophile part, but definitely a very somatic NPD sexually, needing endless supply). He was so like my father, it was mind-blowing. I found myself, in the six weeks I was down taking care of him, falling right into my father-mother relationship, and it scared the hell out of me. And it AMAZED me, because I thought I was truly beyond that. Luckily it only took four of those six weeks for me to finally get it. The last two weeks were just biding my time until it was time to go home. I had already begun releasing the relationship in my heart and putting up the walls to start keeping him from inflicting pain to my heart any longer. Of course, I was still in the exhaustion/shock mode from the whole encounter, and it took several weeks after that to come out of it and to truly begin grieving, but grieve I did. I allowed myself to go through the entire gamut of emotions, and still am, though am really reaching the apathy stage. Still some residual hurt, but that just takes time.

I, too, had the "weight" comments, the pot smoking, etc. with ex-N, not to mention the obsessive-compulsiveness on his part as far as housekeeping, cooking, etc. EVERYTHING was criticized in some subtle way or another, though sometimes outright nastiness. Other times, he would try to feed me just enough to keep me hanging on emotionally. Luckily, at the age of 50, I was able to start seeing through all of that, though it did hurt.

Continue with the self-discovery. I do believe it is a life-time process, especially when one has been through abuse at such a young age.

Bless your heart, and we'll always be here for you. 🙂

February 20, 2006
2:08 pm
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ReadyToFly
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Whidbey, Are you sure my N wasn't your Ex... HA HA... Gotta laugh can't cry anymore... How long ago was it you got out?

February 20, 2006
2:18 pm
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whidbey
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Yeah, RTF, I think we already established they live across the country from one another, but isn't it amazing, as NPDs, how they could be twins?!?

Let's see. I sent my e-mail breaking up with him (after many fruitless attempts at actually talking it out over the phone) around the 1st of November. Almost two long months of cold silence from him, as well as him not taking the couple of calls I tried to make following that (why I did that, I dunno...). Right before Christmas was when he made the phone call trying to pretend nothing had occurred and that all I needed for my troubles was "some good sex and a motorcycle ride." (told him I wasn't going anywhere and told him off). Nothing after that, except one or two calls on my part to get a jacket back which I had left down there last August/September, which he then proceeded to hold "hostage" until the wife of one of his friends, with whom I still communicate, shamed him into it. No note, nothing but the jacket in the box. That was the 1st of February. However, most of my grieving was done last Nov/Dec, as well as when I was actually down there, and he flaunted his other women in my face. Now I'm just to the point that I never want to hear from him again. The butterflies in my stomach have finally "flown away," and I want to keep it that way. I feel strong enough to quit screening my calls, because I know that I can remain indifferent to anything he has to say now and can cut the conversation short and hang up. A lot of how far I've come has been because I'm so damned determined that he is NOT going to ruin, or run, my life and emotions. I refuse to allow it. It's really probably a moot point, as he already has fresh supply and has moved on. I doubt he even puts one iota of thought into me any longer, and frankly, that's okay with me too.

February 20, 2006
2:49 pm
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ReadyToFly
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Whidbey - Well, I am glad to have met ya! You are a blessing to me. Glad you made it thru and I will too.....

February 20, 2006
2:52 pm
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whidbey
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Right back attcha, RTF, and yes, you WILL make it through. 🙂

February 21, 2006
10:01 am
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nirvana
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Hello. I have only just recently realized that the guy I love may be a Narcissist and, though I am sorry for all your pain, it's such a relief to read your postings and know that such pain is not just confined to me.

I won't bore you with the whole sorry saga but to give you an idea of what my 'horned one' is like, he does not just think I'm unreasonable to want to see him more than two hours a week like Golden Light's partner, he thinks it's unreasonable to see him at all! I wouldn't suffer so if this was final, but 'horned one' keeps promising, when he feels like responding to my messages, that we'll meet up 'soon' when he's no longer 'very busy' watching paint dry or whatever he's doing. This has been going on for months.

OK, I know what you're thinking, more fool me for hanging on in there. The reason I do so is because I genuinely enjoy indulging him, and because by his own angry admission (after bragging about his former trophy girlfriends) he's been alone for many years and I don't want to fail him.

What I can't understand is why these intelligent, manipulative egomaniacs don't manipulate things so that they get what they want in the long term, rather than just satisfying their immediate needs. If my 'horned one' had any brains he'd occasionally grant me an audience during which he'd be admired and indulged, and then he could kick-start the next round of torture until His Majesty graces me with His presence again. Instead most Narcissists, unlike Queen of Heart's, make no allowances and just repeat their mistakes until their source of Narcissistic supply walks out the door or kicks them out. Why?

(Sorry, I must sound like a masochist. I'm not really, I'm just in love. And if you're wondering about my online name, I'm not a Narcissist either, I'm just trying to keep my spirits up with this nickname an old boyfriend gave me - and by referring to my dearly beloved as 'the horned one'.)

February 21, 2006
10:15 am
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whidbey
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Hi Nirvana,

Have you read any of the information on NPDs? There is a narcissistic web site on MSN that has a pantload of info on this disorder. I think it will give you great insight as to what you are/may be dealing with. Once you get that information, then it's up to you to decide what you want to do with your life. Yep, it's YOUR decision. As I saw Dr. Phil once ask a beautiful woman, who was waiting for her philandering husband to come one, "Why are you, a beautiful, interesting, loving person, allowing someone else dictate how your life is going to turnout?" That one hit me right between the eyes, and it was that very week I broke up with my NPD, and stayed broken up, as painful as it was. I suspect you are all of those things I listed above, beautiful, loving, kind, giving, or you wouldn't be in his "sphere" right now. They want only the best. I won't go into all of the disorder, because there is so much info out there that can explain it better than I.

I understand wanting to indulge him, and also understand the caring "because he is alone for years." Mine was/is too, and I suspect will always remain so. He's 61 now and getting worse by the day/month/year. I've read that they get even worse after losing parental/important authority figures, and his mother died about three years ago or so. I think the reason I lasted as long as I did with him is because I reminded him so much of his mother. Sometimes that can be a good thing, but sometimes... ugh.

Sooooo, bottom line, you have some tough questions you have to ask yourself, and answer honestly. Please do the reading of the articles on that web site, or even dig up some older ones here, which I believe are taken from that site. Once you have the knowledge, it's much "easier" to do what you need to do for you and how to do it.

Good luck, and welcome to the site. 🙂

February 21, 2006
1:08 pm
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shelbeegirl
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Garfield, your post on Loving a Narcissist is the best help I have had in a long time. I am reading it again today. Thank you sooooo much for that insight.

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