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He wants to change me so that i have implants
April 30, 2001
9:47 am
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Tina
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Hi there
I dont quite know how to say this, as its really embarrasing- and its made me feel really disturbed- but here goes: Its about changing the way you look for a man.

I've been with my boyfriend for 2 years, and we've had our ups and downs- I'm not completely happy with him, but then again, we do have good times too- we have a good sex life and enjoy each other, neither of us are unattractive individuals, but we dont' look like hollywood stars either, we're just normal average people....The thing that struck me as a shock was when he implied that I should change something very fundamental about the way I look.

I'm not a big girl, but then again i'm not skinny either- i'd say i'm a small to medium build...

The other night he was talking to me about his hair and said to me that Bald-ness runs in his family and asked me if I would still love him when he gets bald....I replied by saying yeah of course i' will love you....why not? and he sounded a bit upset and said that because his father is bald, he will get bald too, and i replied by saying 'well if it bothers you that much, then can you not get tablets or something to rectify it?'....

He replied by saying that he could get hair implants....and immediately after that, he said that some women have breast implants.....Then he asked me what i thought about breast implants. I told him that I thought there are a lot of risks involved, and that the health risks outweigh the looks part of it. I was a bit taken aback by his question,....because i don't really have a big chest and it made me feel insecure....

To my utter disgust, he just said that he thought it wasn't really that bad and that there are risks involved with anything you do really, like eye surgury or like a nose job....

Then he said to me..."would you ever get breast implants?"- The thing is this....i was so upset when he asked me that question because it made me feel as if he was indirectly asking me to have it done....(Am i right in interpreting this?)

I said 'no- because its too risky and anyway its changing something quite fundamental about the way i look'....

Then there was this awful silence, and i became really agitated cos i thought he was in disagreement with me....and then i think that he appeared to click that what he said upset me...and i said to him..."well it obviously means that you are not happy with the way i look and it also makes me feel insecure- that you don't like me "....

Then he replied by saying that he did think i was attractive and he thought i was sexy etc....

The thing is this- I just feel really repulssed by the whole thing- that is that what my 2 year relationship with him was all about?....I certainly hadn't thought so up until then.....and is that all he cares about?....What if somethign terrible (God forbid happend to me)....then because i don't look attractive, would he be the type to leave me?

I mean i have nothing against women who want to get it done....(they should only get it done because they want to) and not because her boyfriend feels it would improve / enhance their sex life....What do you all think....I mean am i overreacting or what, because along with all his other faults, its made me think more seriously about splitting up with him now.

I feel insecure about my body anyway, and for your partner to say somehtin as insensitive as that, its really heartbreaking.....

I am really distraught and in a really am thinking to myself is that what all men care about.....Now i'll never have any hope becuase i'm not big chested- and i feel really low about the way that I look- I feel that its really put a dent in my confidence about myself.....

This brings me to my final question, once i've decided to leave him, how do I do it, (the only thing is- is that i don't want him to know that the trigger for me splitting up wiht him was this, as it might make me look like i'm so vunerable)...what do you all think? Please help and give me your honest view point on this as i'm really in a bad depressed state of mind now.

All my friends keep saying to me, oh your relly attractive you can get anyone you want, you're slim, have nice thick hair, have flawless skin, and slim body....

The thing that disturbs me is that why doesn't he see all that, and accept me for what i am?

rgds
Tina

April 30, 2001
2:55 pm
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Molly
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This is just a boy friend. We women get so deep so fast. Just state, that after 2 years of putting my heart and soul into this relationship, I have just realized how surface it really is. After this much time I expected to hear you ask me to be your wife for ever and ever, be the mother of your children, and the truth is you want some one with biggger boobs, to make you appear to be a better man. My man the man in my life and future, would not only never consider altering me in any way, would never be so insensitive as to suggest it, far less think it, or ask me to do it. So take your soon to be bald head, and find some bimbo who is just as shallow, and insensitive as you, because I deserve better.

April 30, 2001
3:17 pm
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bouq
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Asking you to change is a form of emotional abuse...especially about such a basic body part...

Is this the kick you needed to get out of an unhealthy relationship?

May 2, 2001
1:07 pm
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meldee
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listen to them. this is a sighn that he is NOT the one for you. You are uncovering his real personality as time goes on and it isn't looking to good. You know that know matter what changes go on with his looks that it would never change the way you feel about him, so you need to find someone with the same morals. I know its been 2 years and you feel you have invested a lot into this relationship but for someone to completely egnore your feelings for their own personal enjoyment is just aweful and it is just a stepping stone to what will come in the future. Well, at the least what you need to do is make sure that he knows that this was an absolute horrible thing to inply on anyone and if he wants a girl like that then he should go find one because you are an attractive, beautiful person and you can find someone who will love you just the way you are.

May 2, 2001
1:18 pm
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meldee
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go ahead and let him know that this is the reason you are breaking up with him. I mean, if anything it will make you look so confident in the way you look that for someone to suggest any change is so observe and you can do better. you wont seem "vulnerable", you will sticking up for yourself. the only way you'll look vulnerable is if you don't. And besides, your breaking up with him, it shouldn't matter what he thinks about it, you'll feel good about yourself and thats all that matters.

May 2, 2001
4:06 pm
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Ladeska
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Men are such tittybabies. Cracks me up. I just tell them - hey, if you like that so much then just be brazen about it - as brazen as you are about making women feel "small" when indeed it's about you "being small" - so just go out and purchase for yourself - a blow-up doll with big hooters on it and wag her around with you all day OR super glue a big giant plastic boob to your hand so that you can walk around and pacify yourself with by sucking on it all day long. I mean for crying out loud.... there are solutions, dude - just go find one!

I get pretty down and dirty about guys making such suggestions and knowing damn well that it hits a woman in a bad place. I'm not shy about blasting back and leaving them in the dust saying - and, uh, do I know you? Just don't have time for it. You shouldn't either. He's shown his colors and trust me - you will see them again if you hang around. He's shallow and you've seen that now. He was ALSO transferring or trying to - his own insecurity about his baldness onto you. And you obliged him and accepted it, didn't you? Wrong. I'd put it back on him so fast it would make him swallow his plastic boob. Get off the tit, guy and get outa my life and face! He took a cheap shot at you and believe me - "he knew" exactly how it registered "when he did it". He's no moron. He knew. Just wanted you to feel insecure like he was feeling. Twue wuv - ain't it? Think about it....what kind of character trait are you seeing here? This isn't love. You do this to someone you love. But, this is what courtship is about - finding out "who someone is". He just gave you a very good peek. Hope you see it for what it is. And talking to him about it won't do any good. trust me. He'll just try to wiggle out of it or try to end up making you feel more insecure. You don't change people - you just pay attention to their walk, what they do and say and then....you make your own decision about what "you want and need" and be decisive about it without feeling like you need to give a computer printout as to "why" to anyone. It's your life. Be responsible for it and be caretaking of your own feelings. He just gave you every indication that he's not going to. If he feels pain about something - guess what? He's going to poke you - so you feel pain, too. I can't even begin to tell you what a red flag this truly is.... It's a BIG one.

May 14, 2001
8:58 am
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Tina
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Hi all,
Thanks so much for your strong words and your thoughts on this...I have something more to add here:

Since this incidence, I became so weak, and vunerable I just wasnt in the right frame of mind to split up wiht him,...However, my bodylanguage said it all- i didn't want him to touch me or come near me, i avoided him at all costs....then i noticed a change in him...

He started commenting on how beautiful i was, how he loved the way i looked how pretty i looked and that he like this and that about me- he was all over me...(not that he isn't normally- this was more than usual)...

And something inside me knew it was because i was giving off signals that i was insecure about myself and of course about the relationship....since then I gave him the power to make me feel better about myself....automatically i felt better and more attractive (only because he was complimenting me)

Then a few days ago- I kept this all inside me...we had an argument about an un-related issue, and i felt that he had isulted me...I was out-raged by everything- and i blurted out to him that he was in-sensitive and didnt' care about me or the way i looked and told him off for that incidence about the baldness / implant argument we had....

I lashed back by saying to him "Well, would you ever consider having sterioids injected....because I like men with big huge muscles, six packs and big dicks"

He lashed out by saying that was a very nasty comment to make...and that anyway all men like women with big boobs...

I just told him to get lost and then he ran after me...i said i didnt' want anything to do with him after that....

Then a few moments later, when we both calmed down, he appologied to me and said that he trueley didn't mean to 'suggest' anything like wanting me to have implants....he was just curious as to what my perception of it was....and he did say that he was very happy with my body and that if he didnt' fancy me, he wouldnt have gone out with me in the first place -

Then he confessed that he did not like women with big boobs - he said that he's been with other women whos were big and they didn't appeal to him....

I'm just a little confused now, as i've now aired my concerns to him and i think that by me giving a taste of his own medicine - i.e. the bit about six packs and big dicks, he probably guessed that it was an area which is senistive to both men and women.....

things between us have improved, but the thing is i only notice him runnign after me and complimenting me when i'm down and when i'm not into him that much......what do you all think?

Rgds
Tina

May 14, 2001
1:48 pm
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Molly
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Ahhhhhh, the game of romance. Sometimes I think there are men who like drama and create it. The thrill of the chase? Daddy always said men will always ask and its up to the woman to say no. I thought that just related to sex, but I guess, its their way of conversation? Like what do you think about threesomes ? That seems to be a pretty common questions, just like the implant thing, gues it goes back to the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. Maybe we women just over react due to our insecurity, like if we were secure, there would be no issue, flat out no, or are you on drugs to aske me that question? Once we get over that need to please disease, things seem more or less stable. I think we are learning to not give so much before we know who we are giving to? I guess too, that this was either a growth spurt, or a reality check, you sound more secure in your thoughts, good for you.

May 14, 2001
5:49 pm
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Ladeska
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I think he's a game player and thinks you're pretty stupid. What a creep! It's like this....if you don't mean it - don't keep saying it asshole!! He meant it. He just wants to see if he can reel you back in after such a nasty fight and such bad insults. Gives him a feeling of power over you. You know this. So.....if big boobs didn't ever appeal to him - then why ask you what you thought about it to begin with and why say - all men like big boobs....C'MON HERE!! You're smarter than all of this, aren't you? He's a game player, plain and simple. His dad probably treated his mother with similar disrespect and was probably a womanizer on the side. He's learned it from somewhere. Doesn't matter though. What matters is - you want to keep going round and round this vicious circle forever? It's the old game of punch and make-up. Let's see how bad I can hurt her and then see if I can't get her right back in my lap in no time flat. Yep, it's a power trip alright. Wise up.

May 15, 2001
6:16 am
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janes
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I hope you are just dating this guy for practice.

Power control, etc some people thrive on it..

May 15, 2001
10:20 am
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Tina
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Hi Ladeska,
You seem like a really strong person...I feel weak in comparison to you....

Some stuff u say is challenging- but how do i confront him about this? how do i say all this to him?

At the time we had that argument... I did ask him- "Why the hell did you say that all men like big boobs?"...a

nd he replied "Well that's not true...I only said it in retaliation to your comment about liking men with big dicks and six packs.....i don't like large boobs anyways."

So Ladeska- I can't really confront him on that one, cos he only said it to sort of protect himself right?

The other thing is this...its his birthday comming up this weekend and then the following week i am going to be away on holidays.....

He did buy me a really beautiful gift for my b/day and i was touched by it...

If I mention anything about it now it will certainly do the follwing:

a) rock the boat
b) make me feel vunerable and insecure
c) open up a whole can of worms and start another argumnet

By the way Molly, in response to your note....well let me put it like this, yesterday i was ignoring him all day and he got sooooo SOOOO insecure cos i didn't call / email / phone him back....then finally when i got intouch he was all soppy and mushy with me....I know its a game we play - this dance push and pull....but how do I get myself out of this cycle...One side of me doesnt want to leave him and the other half of me does....

Confused Tina
Confused

May 15, 2001
10:49 am
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Ladeska
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Tina....believe me when I say - I have had my share of men like this years ago. I think we all go through this to some extent or another. I'm only strong because I made the choice to be. I like me. And that's an essential ingredient here. If you don't like you - you'll take crap like this and "do the little dance". He's a game player, but if you're playing back - so are you.

Can't believe you bought that line about he was only defending himself. What a crock! And the gift thing at a time like this is textbook. Oh baby, baby - look how sorry I am and what a good boy I'm being today, can I lick your shoes??

You've got to find "you" in all of this. That's pretty much the point of what I'm saying to you. I wouldn't EVEN attempt to tell you what to say to get it across to him or to change him. He's a PIG! Wake up and smell the coffe here. You won't change him, you won't get doodlie across to him - he's just going to confuse you, divert you, change the subject, throw you a cookie and try to charm his way around it. You just have to decide if this little game is what you want out of life and out of a partner.

You are so codependent with him!!! You can't say you don't like something because - you're all wrapped up in how he might perceive it or what he will say back to make you feel validated about what you just said. All your feelings, thoughts, are connected to how he takes it or sees it. Therefore, he can drag you right through the mud time and time again and you just follow blindly. Sure, you'll say a few things to him and have a few moments of - I'm sick and tired! But, the minute he responds in a way that confuses you or invalidates you as a person - there you are - going - oh, poor poopsie - lookit what you bought me and what a nice thing you just said to me..

This is a cycle you can continue in if you want to - but I hope you don't. You guys are playing off of each other and the core of it in both your lives lies in your father image and his mother image. Whatever dance you guys were caught up in "there" - you are trying to finish out and resolve "here". And you could very well waste the rest of your life doing this very same thing over and over again.

But, if you want out of it - you have to stop dancing. You have to disengage with people that want to do this and just "stop" doing it. And you have to want to find yourself, get to know "you" and why you do what you do - on your own, without all this noise in the background. Until....you love you....enough....to do this - you will always be crying in your cornflakes over someone like this. The choice is yours. I hope you choose well.

May 16, 2001
6:58 am
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Tina
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Hiya Ladeska,
I feel so down now....you hit the core....Just like he did...I have a real complex about the way that I look- and knowing that someone likes something else (somethign that i cannot and will not change is heartbreaking).....

Ladeska, its sickening to hear you say that stuff- but its the truth and I have to face it whether i like it nor not...

I had a massive argument with him last night...I was cutting some fruit for a salad and i was messing around with him- and i said something like "wheres your manners?"....and he jokingly thought i said 'mellons'- and he said "what did u say- big mellons- yeah big mellons right!'....

Ladeska, i dont' know why but immediately, i got so shaken up- it was like a bolt in me...I put two and two together - ie that conversation we had a few weeks ago of my opinion of implants and now this comment...

I stormed out and told him to go shove it and find a bimbo .....
He came running after me- and we had another argument.....He said sarcastically- yeah right thats all i go for - i like women with big boobs....ok are u happy now? and then he stormed out....

I got upset again ....then there was more silence and then he came up to me and sat down on my bed and held my hand...he said that he didn't mean to hit a nerve in me, and that what he said was flippant and nonsensical....and that i should no way jump to the worst conclusion....He did say that he understands how i would feel, but he didn't mean anything by it-....He said to me: "Ive been wiht you for 2 years...I love every part of you".....

He did go on to say that most women are very sensitive about their bodies- and he can see why i feel like this, but that was just a passing comment and he is completely happy with how i am....

I did go on to say that he should not be sorry since i do not want to deprive you of what you really like- and if that is what you like then u should go and find someone who fits your criteria.......but he insisted and instisted that that was not true.....

what do you think?

Tina

May 16, 2001
7:22 am
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janes
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I think that Ladeska and Molly are really zeroing in on some of those little things we never notice when we are so infatuated with a person that every thing they do is OKAY. Even after a couple years together if YOU are not comfortable within your own body and your own self trying to be approved of by your significant other takes on a larger meaning on a greater scale.

Some men DO like big boobs...that's okay...I prefer skinny men. We are all individuals and we are ALLOWED to like what we like. When we try to change another person to be what we want...that's where the problems arise.

It does sound like y ou two have gotten into a cycle of zinging each other...and maybe it isn't even concious on his part. I personally don't think many men conciously plan to be controlling or power seeking...

People...male and female....can turn into control freaks.

The major question is what YOU do for YOU in this situation.

It's tough to not be sensitive about our bodies...we do need to cultivate some acceptance about what we are.

If we aren't happy with the way we look...esp if health issues are involved...then we need to get healthy..both in our bodies and in our minds.

Does he help you be healthy? Do help him be healthy.

If you want a healthy relationship then it needs to be worked on.

Acceptance of one another phys. and emotionally...no power trips, controlling shit all gone...

I'd say that if you think you really want to spend your life with this guy the two of you need to go to counseling together....

If not....move on. It isn't helping you to practice being self concious about your body or your feelings.

Study codependency...it won't hurt you to know how you are reacting may be reactions you can change.

May 16, 2001
10:54 am
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Ladeska
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Tina....hey sweetie, sorry to be so hard on you here...but sometimes I've found that brutal truth - gets people's attention and even if they get mad - they read it later and go - dang it - that's true. (smile)

Well, he's certainly good at what he does, that's for sure. And there is a cycle here of - saying I'm sorry, Tina and then zinging you again. Then you argue and then he successfully says the sweet things and then you are sent off wondering if you have valid feelings or not.

Any "idiot" would have not made that statement.. Like "duh!" I don't excuse men for that crap anymore. I just don't. They aren't - that stupid. If you did that to them - they'd be all over you. It's called - passive aggressive behavior. Read up on it. Do a search on the web and see what you're looking at here. It's when someone throws a jab at you and then goes "did I do that? Oh My God! You know I didn't mean it, you took it wrong, blah, blah...you're so insecure...oh come over here and let me kiss it and make it better babydoll, you know how much I love you, etc." BARF!

It's a stab and you need to see it that way and it's not okay. Period, end of story. If you keep doing it Dude - it's just not okay and there's not mushy talking about it, no me taking your crappy meaningless apologies - my boundaries are this and you've crossed the line repeatedly and I'm not backing way back from you...figure it out or kiss my butt goodbye.

Actions rule. Words don't mean shit. Remember that. You need counseling - true enough and I'd go for "me" if I were you. To heck with him. He's a big boy - he either keeps up or he doesn't. If you go together at this point - it's going to be a game of control and who can outfox who....being codependency game. Enough already. You get educated yourself. You guys may need some space while this is going on, too.

He doesn't need to know your every move and every reason why. This is about you - not about him. And if - when you get healthy - he doesn't like it or can't bond with you well - oh darn. I think he likes the power he has over you right now. He effectively spins you this way and that.

So, step out of the circle and do some reading, get some counseling...information and education is power. You can't fight the war if you can't identify your own soldiers, the enemy and the lay of the land. So, step into the identification process here and do some investigating...do it for "you". There doesn't need to be a we just yet.

You also need to trust your own radar. Things are majorly bothering you here and you need to listen to it. sometimes we don't have the computer printout yet of "why" and that's okay - but we do have a good early warning system that alerts us ahead of time - listen to it.

May 16, 2001
11:26 am
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skimbleshanks
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I think he was projecting his baldness insecurities on you. I'm sure he's happy with your body, but unhappy with his head/scalp.

Try to let things lie for a day. Try to find out if his implant questions really stem from his own insecurities.

After two years, try and be clear on the conversation - that's a long time to just throw away!

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