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HE KICKED A LOCKED DOOR!!!!! SAYS HE IS JUSTIFIED -- ITS NOT ABUSE
March 10, 2005
3:33 pm
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petitefour
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I have been here before and told you my VA and I are currently separated (for six months). He is going to counseling and so am I. He and I spend some times together in HIS home.

When he asked me about moving back in, I asked if he had followed the agreements WE had made about us both going to counseling and him going for help with his anger/rage/abuse issues. He said, "I don't need to go to one of THOSE groups, I am handling my anger issues better now."

Yes, (I agree) there have been SOME improvements. But, he still cannot control himself. This was clearly evidenced by a show of aggression when I locked myself in his bedroom (which used to be OUR bedroom) to get away from him when he was angry at me last weekend. He yelled, "OPEN THE DOOR. YOU CANNOT LOCK ANY DOORS in MY HOUSE!!! YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO LOCK ME OUT OF MY OWN BEDROOM!" He then proceeded to kick the door in! After he came in, he promptly left again. He didn't come in to talk, to comfort me----just to intimidate me!

I reminded him of this recent incident (only a few weeks ago) and he said, That is not abuse, it was because you don't understand the rules!" "It is MY house and YOU CANNOT LOCK ANY DOORS IN MY HOUSE, EVER!"

I suppose I already know what you will all say, "He is denial". I suppose there is no hope now......he justifies his anger/aggression with the fact that I am not following rules, upsetting him, making him angry and the list goes on and on!

I feel terrible, now. I thought we were moving in the right direction. Any words of encouragement or advice would help now. I

March 10, 2005
3:38 pm
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dmurphy
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As a man who can admit has my own anger issues. I would NEVER behave in this fashion. I might get loud when we argue because my wife gets loud with me but physical harm is not acceptable at all. He is a ticking bomb. He was not justified because it is his door. He needs help. If he will not get it you need to get away. Physical abuse is the absolute worst thing that can ever happen. As a man I would expect my wife to run away and never come back and I would know that I deserved that. I am so sorry that he has done this to you. I sinserely hope that you seek counseling for yourself because this is a serious issue.

March 10, 2005
4:10 pm
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readyforachange
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I am appalled that he would say this to you. When you are in someone else's home as a visitor, is it not acceptable to lock the bathroom door when you are using the bathroom? A locked door, to me, signifies a need for privacy, irregardless of who owns the home. Decent people respect one another's right to privacy in any setting. You deserve that respect. You are not getting it. I agree with dmurphy....he is a ticking bomb. My ex husband forced his way through my front door and cracked the entire door frame. I filed a protective order. This is abuse and it is unacceptable. Don't stand for it!

March 10, 2005
5:12 pm
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jamaicanwife
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My father used this door gimmick to great effect when we were growing up. "No locked doors in my house" he would say sternly as the door bounced off the wall. We were all terrified of him.

The other shoe dropped when my mother finally decided to get a divorce and he ordered us to pack her things and move them out of his(their)bedroom. We cried, and only packed some of her things, then he locked the door...none of us ever got into that room again. One neat trick we all used to enjoy was when he would take the phone off the hook in his room and THEN lock the door so none of us could use the phone. Oh the laughs we had!

Seriously, this door thing is no joke. It is abuse, intimidation, manipulation and contempt for your rights as an individual. As readyforachange says, don't stand for it, and get a protection order if you have to. He is a potential danger to you.

March 11, 2005
1:00 am
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mamacinnamon
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Petitefour:

You want words of encouragement.....
I encourage you to move on and leave him behind; I encourage you to open your eyes to what you already know is goin on here; I encourage you to take the steps necessary to protect yourself and your kids; I encourage you to stand up to him and tell him where he can get off; I encourage you to give yourself a hug because you need one; I encourage you to hold your head up - we all want to give it one more try; I encourage you to do something special for yourself today because you deserve it; I encourage you to step back and look at what you wrote - you already know the score.

You know where you stand w/ him now for sure. Is this what you want forever? He's already given you a deal breaker and yes, is in huge denial or just don't give a damn attitude. Move on honey.

March 11, 2005
11:09 pm
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mytimic
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Ha!...so I was right....my hubby has literally broken off the door jamb where the bedroom door wont even shut right anymore...he said the same thing..no locked doors in MY house..yada yada yada...I reminded him that my name was on the same damn mortgage as his...and that not only was it my right to privacy...it was MY bedroom door he busted...we have seperate rooms for snoring reasons. He still thinks he's right...now if I want privacy...I just leave the house.Also..I found out he was afraid of what I might be keeping from him..(paperwork, mail, bills, whatever)..I now have a safety deposit box....

March 12, 2005
11:33 am
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Anonymous
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petitefour,

My ex kicked down MY door - not even HIS a couple of years ago. He still says it was all my fault that I had caused him to do it. I told him to get out and never come back again. Yet I still took him back over and over again until recently. And now when I look back at what he did - intimidates me in my own home, frightened me and my daughter, verbally and physically abused my space - I realise what a shitty thing he did. And after reading all these threads I further realise how wrong it was for him to do that and still think it ok. What you have to think is 'do I really want this for the rest of my life?' because that's what it most likely will be.... take care of yourself. love F&B

March 14, 2005
10:52 am
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petitefour
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ALL:
Well, I have come to one conclusion. He does have control over his raging...when he wants to!

This weekend together (just us), there was no fighting, no curse words, no yelling, no controlling, no ugliness. We spent three days together. It was wonderful and very relaxing. So, now I "know" he can control himself.....

The issue of his loss of control (by kicking in the locked door/yelling/cursing, basically verbally abusing me) is that when he does make a mistake...he cannot admit it to himself or me. Especially, ME.

I believe he does know he has a problem. This IS a first. He has worked so hard at denying it to me, in the past. I have found evidence that he is now reading, researching and working on his anger/abuse through books, articles and self help courses. He will not tell me he is doing this. It is, yet another, secret. This one, however, is okay. His deception has hurt in the past, but not this secret.

I wish he could be honest with us both. It would make me feel as though he is not always placing blame for his anger on me, but taking some responsibility and working towards change. I guess I just have to accept that part of his personality.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Petitefour

March 14, 2005
11:05 am
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jamaicanwife
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I can't imagine myself coming to terms with a part of my husband's personality that kicks in locked doors. That would be a deal breaker for me. If he has not admitted that he was wrong, then you have no reason to believe that he feels that way.

After being divorced for 17 years, i am still pretty sure that my father believes that my mother 'made' him hurt her, 'drove' him to act the way he did. That when he hit us, it was our fault for making him lose control.

This is not something you should accept, or let slip quietly by. It is a very, very serious matter.

March 14, 2005
11:22 am
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Cici
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It would be a deal breaker for me. It should have been, god knows -- it would have saved my friend the threat of being killed by my ex....in some ways I have to acknowledge that I put myself at risk with my ex breaking in to my house and trying to kill my friend -- I should have known what it would lead to.

So, there and there. This may sound harsh, but I could have avoided being the reason my ex is going to prison for 10 years....

I caution you, tread lightly, go slowly -- I am not one to tell someone to get a divorce, but limiting contact while he addresses his issues might be a good idea.

Hey it is your choice what you do and don't have to accept. I think you are worth more but that's just me. You have to think you're worth more, you deserve to be treated better than that. You deserve to be treated better than a stray dog.

March 14, 2005
11:27 am
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petitefour
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JW-
I am not making excuses for him. His abuse is never acceptable.

The only thing that I have accepted is that he cannot get past his own ego to admit he has a problem to even me!

I have told him that his violence toward me or anyone else is unacceptable and will no longer be tolerated. Maybe that is why I experienced the "honeymoon" phase of good behavior this weekend. Not sure.

I appreciate everyone's concern and I understand the danger involved with him. That is why I still have my own home, my own car, my own bank account.

Nothing I have is co-mingled that he can shut off or take away to keep me with him, any more. I am only with him when it is pleasant for me. If/when he becomes very angry and abusive, I leave.

March 14, 2005
11:37 am
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magik
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petitefour,

Good morning to you,

as a former police officer, (miliatry) your husband has NO reason to show a force of stregnth in a violent fashion. Even if you did do something to 'set' him off. Its he who has a problem,....if he is upset, he could always walk it off. Kicking down a door is a sign of someone who needs serious help.

Under Canadian law, he could be arrested for intimdation, and the threat of causing you harm. If you felt threaten, and felt that during his out bursts of rage that he could cause you injury, then dial 911.

If its his house or not, viloent actions are simply that,....violent. He has lost control and needs to get help.

You cannot and should not be his therapist. And don't open yourself to being a target.

Sadly when I was an MP I have arrested men who where nice guys, but realy they were monsters.

Also, remember this, its your life,...you take control and do what is nessessary to protect your self. My suggestion is get out of there if you can, or should this happen again, dial 911

take care,....

Magik

March 14, 2005
12:36 pm
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jamaicanwife
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You seem to be acting cautiously, which is good, but this is what concerns me: he kicks the door in on you, and says , "OPEN THE DOOR. YOU CANNOT LOCK ANY DOORS in MY HOUSE!!! YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO LOCK ME OUT OF MY OWN BEDROOM!" Then a short while later you spend a cozy weekind together. He dodn't even have to give you a vague lie about going to counselling or something, because you don't seem to expect it.

If I am wrong, let me know, but it just seems to me that if there are no consequences of his actions then there will be no change. And I would expect escalation without some serious work on his part.

March 14, 2005
12:44 pm
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Cici
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I appreciate everyone's concern and I understand the danger involved with him. That is why I still have my own home, my own car, my own bank account.

Nothing I have is co-mingled that he can shut off or take away to keep me with him, any more. I am only with him when it is pleasant for me. If/when he becomes very angry and abusive, I leave.

Well that's all well and good. My ex, who tried to kill my friend - we shared nothing. As soon as I stopped taking his calls, he started stalking me, checking to see if I was spending time with ANYONE, man or woman, besides him or being alone....it's not what they can take away from you, honey. It's what they can do to you. You may well be holding the front door of your own home while he tries to kick it in to drag you out by your hair during one of his "episodes" one day. Hey, everyone says it won't happen to me.

I take part of the responsibility for the abuse I endured. I could have ended it but I didn't, made up excuses, I blamed myself fully -- whatever helps you sleep at night, right?

And damn if I haven't seen that asshole since January 10, and damn if I don't feel like a g-d new person. No more walking on eggshells. No more begging for scraps. No more degradation, debasing myself for a tiny bit of attention from a crazy man...

If I can do anything to prevent what happened to me from happening to anyone else, I would love to be able to. But I am slowly beginning to realize that I can't and never will.

🙁

Good luck.

March 14, 2005
12:48 pm
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petitefour
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He is and has been in counseling for the past few months. He said he thought he was getting better at managing his anger, (which he was) up until the recent incident with the door.

He, did, however, make the statement (when we did discuss the door incident again) that he didn't believe his problem was serious enough to go the "anger management" classes in addition his counseling.

That upset me because he is obviously STILL having problems controlling himself. But....having said that, I noticed (this past week) that he has purposed books, printed out articles, etc. to assist with his counseling efforts regarding his anger issues. Its not a workshop aside from his counseling but this IS progress (for him) he didn't even admit to himself that he needed to work on these issues (only a month ago). This is not the total cure all, by any means. It is just a start --- it may not even make a difference in the big picture for US and our future. To me, however, it says his denial is diminishing in some ways.

You are correct in stating that the only consequence to his "violent"
behavior was that I stayed away for two weeks (in my own home), we had a discussion about the incident last week (before I came back over to his home) and agreed that if any inkling of his anger surfaced again, I would leave--immediately. I made sure I had my own transportation.

There was no reason to leave, this time. That I was grateful for.

March 14, 2005
8:27 pm
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magik
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hello petitefour

I haven't forgotten about you.

Do yourself a favour, let a close frind know what you are going through, also, make a report to the police. Don't lay a charge yet, but at least let them know. And once you are making the report and you feel like laying a charge,....do so!

Depending on what state or province you are in they may take him in for questioning. The police always have a list of social workers you can talk to and get advice from. The next move belongs to you.

we can only encorage you, its up to you now to help yourself. And you know,...you can do it! You started by reaching out to us, so now just reach out a little further and help yourself.

Good luck : )

magik

March 17, 2005
12:52 pm
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readyforachange
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petitefour....how are you doing? just checking in on your situation, and wanted you to know I'm thinking about you.

My ex is hounding me to drop the protective order I filed after he broke my front door down. He calls the order "bogus" and says I lied to get it.

I'm worried about you because he "says he is justified". These types of people can justify just about anything. They are masterful at twisting a situation to their benefit, and making everything seem like your fault. They are so out of touch with reality, that they make you start to question yourself.

Be careful, and take care of YOU!

March 17, 2005
2:09 pm
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jamaicanwife
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Like readyforachange, I am particularly concerned that he says he is justified. Do you think he was justified? And I think everyone on this board will agree with me that this is only the first time. He will do something like this again; will he be justified then also?

How much blame will you accept for his behaviour? How much will you modify your behaviour, 'walk on eggshells' around him to avoid setting him off?

You need to be clear how far you are willing to let this go, because it never stops at one incident.

March 17, 2005
4:06 pm
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My Opinion:

A person has a right to physical boundaries and to feel safe no matter where they are.

I don't think his problem is anger management per se.

His problem is that he has a huge sense of entitlement, so he consequently gets angry about things that normal people don't.

There is more to abuse than cursing and physical violence. A guy who does not understand the difference between reasonable expectations and unreasonable expectations is going to give you trouble in lots of ways.

March 17, 2005
4:53 pm
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jamaicanwife
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Worried Dad; I don't want to hijack this thread, but I would like to hear more about this sense of entitlement.

March 17, 2005
5:40 pm
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Worried_Dad
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As Lundy Bancroft puts it,

Abusers are Disrespectful, Entitled and Manipulative.

This guy believe he has a ENTITLED to force himself into a woman's physical space when she has gone to the trouble of putting a locked door between them.

He ought to have been thinking, "What have I done to make her feel like she needs to protect herself from me?"

Instead he let himself get enraged over what he perceieved as a territoriality or ownership issue.

March 17, 2005
7:48 pm
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readyforachange
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I agree, WD, but do they ever realize that they are abusers? My ex (of exactly 10 days now) has NEVER admitted to me that anything he has ever done was wrong. Not breaking down the door, not shoving me against walls by the throat, not puching his fist through things, not hiding money or closing bank accounts, or removing my pictures from the house....on and on and on.

And now that I have a protective order, he is even more nasty. Emailed me today to tell me I was not allowed to pull into his mother's driveway when I come to pick up my children (he lives with his mother).

I know I can never change him, I've let go of that idea. But will he, on his own, ever SEE that what he is doing is abusive?

The separation agreement mandates that we all go to counseling, and he is now refusing to go. He says he could lose his job if I go in there and tell them lies and they label him as an abuser. He just doesn't get it. I told him I didn't care if he went with us...I'd just go alone with the kids, and he'd be in contempt of court.

Sorry, I'm just venting, it's been a rough week....and it was supposed to be over. Maybe I should start my own thread...sorry for jumping into your thread, petitefour....

Where are you by the way....is all OK?

March 17, 2005
7:54 pm
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angel4U
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I call these types "Control Freaks" ... where they get this notion of being entitled is beyond me. But one thing's for sure, there (sadly) is no "you" in their warped mind ... it's all about them and what they want! And they will lie, manipulate, steal, etc. (and sometimes with the most charming smile on their face) to get what they want. And the sad part is, these "charmers" are liked by so many cuz people usually don't have a clue most of the time what they are doing behind closed doors.

The sooner you discover their game, the better, cuz if you are not a strong person to stand up to them (which you will have to be constantly if you decide to stay), they will eat you alive if you let em!

petitefour - I have family members that are like this and have been since we were kids (they call names, go into rages, always trying to prove they are right with no regards to the feelings of others - and they are now 35, 37, 43 and 45!). And I see them all struggling (no starving) to be liked by everyone (that's their ego). They always seem to be trying to pull you into a power struggle ... it's as if they need to feel "in control" and "right" to feel like they are someone. I believe that someone at some time allowed them to get away with this behavior, and therefore taught them that it was ok to deal with their anger & the world like this. I find it funny (in the worse kind of way) though that they would not even think to act this way on a job or in front of people they just met (cuz they know they'd get fired or people might view them negatively), but will do so in their homes with people they supposedly love.

Take care of yourself, my friend. I know it must be hard because you love him. But if what he is doing hurts you and you are afraid (I would be, as this type of behavior usually only escalates into something worse over time), than you need to "require" he gets help.

March 17, 2005
8:30 pm
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angel4U
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Added note - I posted this on another thread and thought it might be good here too ..

" ... by accepting behavior we're not ok with, we're not being true to ourselves, nor do we show others who we really are. What we stand for (tolerate), seems to be what we get, and how people view us." ... "speaking up once is giving them the opportunity to hear how you feel about it and what your limitations are (which are different for everyone of us). If they can't/won't respect my boundaries, the only way I have found to get them to take me seriously and stop is to walk away for awhile. When they refuse to stop, I say "See ya!". Unfortunately in the past I find I waited too long sometimes to set healthy boundaries ... I questioned whether I was being too serious about a situation, etc. ... when you do this, it takes even longer for people to "get it" that you don't like how they are treating you. Some never do, and it is those that I usually walk away from for good."

I know you are trying, petitefour. But it sounds like he is refusing to see what all of us see. So maybe it's time to simply say "IT'S NOT OK FOR ME, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE" period, and take yourself seriously.

March 17, 2005
9:04 pm
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readyforachange

I believe that most abusers will never admit, or certainly ever believe they are "abusers." Their sense of entitlement makes them think that whatever they do is ok.

"She didnt have dinner ready so I shot her. what man would put up with that?"

Of the abusers who will admit and really recognize that they are abusers and that their behavior is WRONG, I think it usually requires them being told that in so many words by authority figures: Police, courts, psychotherapists, or clergy.

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