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have i ever been in love??
October 12, 2004
6:04 pm
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Cici
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I was driving home from working, thinking about the idea of love....I thought I had loved my husband, and another female I was with when I was much younger....

But you know, I have never had that consistency of feeling. Like always knowing I love that person. My feelings for them have always been mutable. Sometimes I wouldn't even want to see them and would actively push my partner of the time away. My husband always says that's what destroyed our marriage (hmmm, among other things). it seems sometimes like the only way someone can draw me in is by doing the push pull thing that i do...push away, pull them close, push away...blah blah blah.

I wonder then if I've ever really been in love. Or if I am even capable of such an open emotion. Or had I already been too jaded from my traumas of the past to learn to allow myself to love? I am still and probably always will be hypervigilant. I wonder if this interferes....

I had this sinking feeling that i would be like my mom and never really allow myself to feel that emotion.

October 12, 2004
6:18 pm
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SassyAlex
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I have been questioning what exactly love is, is what I thought was love for so long really love? And when I say love, I'm referring to romantic love. I don't have many problems with family or friend love. It all gets messed up in romantic situations for me. Up until now, I've defined love as that giddy, high, not wanting to eat or sleep, wanting to be with that other person 24/7, crazy, emotional, passionate, obsessive, addictive feeling. But people much wiser than me say love is admiration, respect, and kindness. I agree with that, but isn't it supposed to be both? Not that many people ever find the two hand in hand.

In my recovery, I may be able to learn how to stay away from people who are bad for me, but I don't know if I ever want to know romantic love if it doesn't involve intense passion and obsession. Otherwise isn't it just friendship? I don't know if that's my codependent tendencies or just being a human being. It's all so confusing.

October 12, 2004
6:56 pm
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Anonymous
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Cici - i swear we are at the exact same place. I wondered that with my psychologist the other day. Do I know what love is. I too go for the push pull thing, I had that with Mr. Jack, he pushes me away I pull him in, I push him away he pulls me in. He pulls me in I push him away. It was a never ending cycle. It happens when you take two emotionally unavailable people and put them together. I then wondered well I have been with people dated people said I loved them but if it was truly love, how did it disappear so quickly where did it go after a year and ahalf which seems to be my limit. THen I wonder and I think I was never shown or taught love at an early age so maybe I have false views on what love is. SOmetimes I think Ionly love someone if I feel intense super pain with them, I know it's weird. But I too wonder if I have ever been in love the sad thing is I thinkt he answer is no.

October 13, 2004
8:15 am
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Cici
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I wonder if I'm capable of it. Aces, your story...wow it sounds like i'm writing it, except my limit is about 2 years, give or take. I know about the pain craving, too....

I thought I loved. But I think, in reality, I needed. I was addicted. I want the person to want me, but I don't have enough understanding of myself to give back what they give. Sometimes I just feel like I don't want anyone else to have that person - I even feel that way about my ex's sometimes. Like I just want them to be lonely and miserable.

Can past trauma make it impossible to love romantically? Or is it just that I refuse to open myself up to pain anymore? I feel like I've been hurting about so many things for so very long...

October 13, 2004
10:18 am
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luvlee
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Cici,
I have also been floating in and out of this question ~ ~ ~

When I first moved out of my boyfriend's place about a month and a half ago I sat him down after about a week to talk about my feelings changing. I told him that I was worried that I didn't really love him - but rather I was "in love" with the codependent needs he filled for me.

I STILL haven't figured out whether it is love or codependency. We have been spending more and more time apart so I can sort this out. The space is helping.

I found myself having a disturbing thought while driving a couple of days ago - what if I never loved any of the men I have claimed to love? What if I have no idea what love really is?

I am trying not to stress it too much and just learn more about myself. It is a bit disturbing to contemplate though.

October 13, 2004
10:56 am
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Anonymous
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I think past trauma can influence how we think and deep subconscious acts that we may not even know or understand why we do. I truly believe that. I believe that us with attachment issues have deep rooted pain and deep rooted misbeliefs on how things should be. I for myself feel that I just dont KNOW how to care and truly love someone. It's not that I am mean or so forth it's more that I wasn't taught it, I don't know it. I feel that I too want them to want me and then when they do want me I am okay, but is it ever really love? The thought of marrying somone scares me to death. I want the closeness I strive for the closeness to have someone "there" but then when I get it, I freak out. I can't handle it. Then I wonder how it is so easy to just be done when you feel that point or switch inside you just turn off.

October 13, 2004
12:28 pm
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Cici
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I know exactly what you mean, aces. When I get the closeness I seem to crave, I flip. I can't handle it either. I always seem to get to the point where the guy is spending a lot of time with me, every day at least an hour or two, and then they start to irk me...but I really just get irritated and pick fights. I push them away. Then I get all panicky and want them back.

Like one of my ex's spit in my face on three different occassions...yet I still went back to him. Last night my ex asked me out to dinner (since he basically ruined the last time we hung out), and I knew it would end up in an argument....it's almost like I wanted it to...even though I didn't. What the hell is wrong with me?

I am a committment phobe.

October 13, 2004
12:37 pm
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starryslp
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I thought I loved my ex too..but I feel like I would rather have never met him, then be in this situation, so that makes me feel like it was never love. I don't feel like our time together made me a better person. I don't know if that is just cause I am hurt right now, or if it is how I will always feel.

October 13, 2004
12:46 pm
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Patarino
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Hey starry
Wow, you and I are really mirrored! I too wish I had never met her. I know I am not a better person for it. I am better because I know i am strong enough to deal with someone's lies, drug addiction, and tons of crap. But a better person I am not! I don't know if it was ever love. I really dont' think so. Perhaps it is still there but it is sure hard to see through are the pain. She says I need to forgive her. I have forgiven her countless times ... it the trust I can't find, and I know she is still just a lying loser.

October 13, 2004
3:39 pm
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Anonymous
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Cici - I think we should join commitment phobics anonymous. Other than that though I am a hypocrite, I get so upset with Mr. Jack because he didn't want a committment and when it comes down to it, if I had gotten one from him I would have flipped. It's like what he said I push him away and then I cry when he leaves. He was right in some sense. But other times I know that I really did try and I really did want it to work and I got burned and hurt in the process. That jerk. Then I sit there and wonder is it really over, finally after 10 months of this crap is it really over now? I ended it, and I needed to, I hate him. But then again he never gave me what I wanted which was to have him and that sucks. He is a comittment phobic and I am, you are is your ex? I pick fights as well. Here is the weird thing though I think I pick them almost because I want the other person to stop validating that everyone leaves. I realized that I push people away to validate to myself that no one really stays, and that they all do leave in the end because of something, and when they do leave it validates it in my mind and so I can stay detached from people. Does that make any sense?

October 13, 2004
3:48 pm
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Cici
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my ex is definately a committment phobic. He doesn't understand the concept of "relationships" - his parents divorced when he was 1 and his mother is INSANELY afraid of relationships. Keeps telling me to stop talking to her son and just stop dating men completely, like her....yeah well sitting home every night, dedicated to reality TV doesn't sound like much of a life.

I made/make excuses for him, like I understand that he spent the entirely of his young adulthood in various facilities because his mother could not actually parent him. It's a mean accusation, but no kid is born evil and he has had to go to special schools since he was a tot. Acting out for attention, in my opinion.

So he learned to act out for attention, now in his adulthood he does the same thing on a grander scale.

I get this hysterical thing when I pick fights and they try to leave - like "You never wanted me in the first place!" and "You weak little man, you don't know how to fight for what you want!" (the last one is the real kicker).

The last one usually gets them because of the challenge to their manhood.

October 13, 2004
3:52 pm
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Emperorsclothes
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I have learned a VERY important factor about love, you can only give what you have inside.

You can only love another, as much as your love yourself.

blessings

October 13, 2004
4:23 pm
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Anonymous
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WOW I will have to keep that one in mind, I think a pattern here, Mr. Jack's parents divorced when he was 2 and he doesnt seem to have a good relationship with his father of all people. I do the "you never wanted me in the first place", and I also do the well I'm glad this is so easy for you, and you never cared, and you never this, the guilt trip and then when I get really really upset I will just get really calm say I wish you the best, and be done. I never tried the you weak little man, I did say once, you don't know how to be a man and care though. The sad thing is that it is just all a part of the game and doesn't help a damn thing, they may stay but we continue to be miserable because deep down they are not what we strive for, I think I strive for more parental type of relationships than equal, and I cannot expect to get that from men. Especially not the emotionally unavailable TYPE. I HATE THEM. You know what Cici Im glad you're on here as well as Fairy and Workinonit and Luvlee and all the others because you have really helped it's nice to know someone feels the same way.

October 13, 2004
4:27 pm
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I forgot Camer cause she is always there too, but seriously I am so glad to be DONE, I have wanted this for so long and I finally got the anger to be done with that jerk. AND I may be emotionally scrwed up god knows I have more issues than anyone, but you know what, at least I can admit them and try to work on them, that jerk face will never realize what a jerk he is. I mean he was just a plain old jerk, not nice at all.

October 13, 2004
4:38 pm
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Anonymous
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Wow,
and I thought it was just me....
I do the same relationship dance as posted above.... and I always date guys I would never seriously consider for marriage either. I also pull the well you never loved me in the first place, leave I don't know why I bothered with an emotional doorknob like you to begin with (my favorite:)) and last night it was sorry but the only thing you know how to give women is a good one-night but not boyfriend material. I think it boils down to our self-worth.

October 13, 2004
4:40 pm
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Anonymous
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But us using those lines, does that make us really bad? I know it goes into manipulation and then I think well healthy people just wouldn't bother and be done, but then agian I know for me I am far from healthy. I want to be though, and being done with that loser jerk wad, is a good step. But then again, I don't want the really nice guy because in all honesty Im afraid I will hurt him.

October 13, 2004
5:01 pm
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luvlee
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A & S,
I have a really nice guy now and I am in a phase where I keep trying to find something seriously wrong with him so I can break up with him.

He knows it and knows about my codependency so he says "over my dead body" then gives me my space to figure it out.

Being with a nice guy can be done - but it takes work.

October 13, 2004
6:33 pm
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Cici
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GAWD, what a world we create for ourselves.

I do that also - the argument winds up tighter and tighter and all of a sudden I just break *SPROING* and I get deadly calm. That's another tactic, I think, to draw them in...

Sometimes I think I don't really want love, just some kind of calm complacency. The happy brass turtle I have sitting on my computer at home seems calm. ha ha ha

But then I've had those non-passionate relationships and done nothing btu bitch about how I need passion.

I was talking to a friend the other night who said that my husband is codependent on me. Which is weird because I thought I was codependent on him. We are in this constant, horrid dance, even though we are separated...I don't even get the benefits of a freaking relationship and I still draw him into the stupid dance, I still have melodramatic arguments and make-ups, all via telephone, all while I was dating my latest ex. I get all freaked out when I think he might stop calling me, even though he's calling me from a stupid federal prison.

What the hell, he has become my ideal because he is the ultimate emotionally unavailable partner, right? HAH! I am insane. I'm sure as soon as he gets out, if we did get back together everything would fizzle in my 2 year time span.

Sometimes I feel like a slave to my issues - does anyone else ever feel that way? Like you're almost trapped behind a window, all this info on how and why and when you behave the way you do, but yet you still do it sometimes and feel this horrible, trapped sinking feeling?

I only get that way when I'm with someone. When I'm alone I just don't have the freak-outs. Maybe I just can't live with ANYone. Except my dogs, ha ha.

October 13, 2004
6:35 pm
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Cici
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oh another thing....
------------------

luvlee
13-Oct-04

A & S, I have a really nice guy now and I am in a phase where I keep trying to find something seriously wrong with him so I can break up with him.
------------------

I do this too!!!

October 13, 2004
6:57 pm
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Anonymous
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I do that too, because it's like I cannot stand to be vulnerable and when I feel vulnerable and that I could get hurt I have to try to find ways to push that person away or to make it out to be that they are crappy so I shouldn't like them. NOW don't get me wrong, Mr. Jack was the ultimate jerk ultimate, and the things he did were inexcusable I mean totally inexcusable, but the sad thing is that I think I reinforced his behavior a lot by letting him do those things and then still dating him. I did nothing to prevent it so I take the blame on that. I also think that I let him do those things because, now this is really strange, I mean it hurt with some of the things he said and then bam like it was all gone, the hurt everything, I didn;t feel a thing after a couple seconds. I know that is werid but it's like my stronger part took over and didn't let it hurt. It is the weirdest thing.I hope one day in this world of hell I have managed to make for myself, I will recognize that the pain is not worth it in the end. Not emotionally, not physically not at all. It is odd how we can let one person change our whole lives and even destroy all the good things we have built. Talk about control.

October 13, 2004
8:32 pm
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art angel
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CiCi and everyone-
I too feel trapped by my issues. I can tell myself that I love me and that I deserve so much til I'm blue in the face, but how can I make myself actually believe it? I think that will be my hardest obstacle to overcome.

October 13, 2004
9:00 pm
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Anonymous
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I also let jack push the boundaries down. and out and under. grrrrrrrrrr.................
shame on him and shame on me!

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