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guilt tripping myself BADLY!!
September 4, 2005
10:06 pm
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I C Gold
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X snooped thru phone records and found out I'd been talking to "R" on the phone, A month after he'd moved out and I was led to believe our divorce petition had been filed.
So, I lied about it for a while and then came clean, of course X hit the roof, he blames "R" for our divorce, and up to and including global warming. Now for those of you who don't know, X left me for his boss and has been sleeping with her and spending weekends at her house since before we split up..with our daughter. But I'm immoral because I've had some phone converstations? Why do I get held to a different standard? and on top of it, I feel guiltly for lying to him. I know it was wrong and it was out of a sense of trying to avoid and confrontations etc...also a habit when it comes to X and "R". He contacted a different attorney and the attorney told him sueing for full custody in Tx is hard to do when there is no proof of danger or incompetance, so he's dropped that threat for the time being. But has now stated that he WILL NOT allow our daughter to be around "R". "R" is not the same person X knew 12 years ago, he's cleaned up his act and stopped most of the drinking. He was in a wreck not long ago and is a little down on his luck now but things are looking up for him. We want to try to put us(me and "R") back together and I feel guilty about that X's response will be so negative. Why am I eating myself up with all this guilt? Is it because I KNEW lying was wrong even if I did it to self protect myself?
I'm so confused and guilty and my stomach hurts. I actually have some self loathing going on too. I'm really angry at me for not being stronger and REALLY want to find out what "R" has that I can't seem to get away from and have destroyed my marriage, my daughters life and not to mention X's life as well. I really hate me right now. Think I need to journal....Thanks for listening 🙂

September 4, 2005
10:24 pm
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Shaney
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It sounds like X moved on with his life even before you split up - so why is it wrong that you went on with your life, a month later. I can see maybe feeling guilty for lying, but not for talking to R. You may be feeling guilt for playing a part in your family having to go through something like this, a divorce. It IS hard, and I'm sure there is guilt on both sides. It takes two to tango in this sort of situation, and X definitely had his dancing shoes on, prior to you even separating. Don't beat yourself up. Just because you're no longer a wife, doesn't mean that you can't still be a fantastic mother to your daughter. If you decide to stay with R, the best of luck to you.

September 5, 2005
12:12 am
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exoticflower
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X has no legal right to tell you who you may see and who your custodial daughter may interact with. Do you threaten him and exercize power that doesn't exist and throw rules and he and his misteress? No, you have another thread here that says ou absolutely do not. Just ignore x, let him rant and make rules. Don't put your daughter in harm is the only rule there is for a parent. You don't expose her to anything inapropriate, I assume, and you don't hurt or neglect her, so there you go. He has no right, and you are within your legal and personal rights to go about your life however you see fit regardless of his power trip. When he starts making demand, simply tell him that you are sorry, but you are not going to agree to that, that you are within your rights and will not be ordered around, and that you have to go now. Then hang up. You can talk to him later when he isn't trying to control you in ways that are needless and help no one. ((((Gold)))), it's so frustrating when a child is used by the other parent strictly to gain control over YOUR life, I know. if you don't give into it, in time they get tired of trying to force you under their thumb (I hope!), and maybe then can develope healthy relationships with the kids that are not about you...and if not, then being loving to the child and refusing to be manipulated in her honor will help tremendously later when she needs support and to know that she is special and your main focus if she feels that absense or misuse of parenthood from her father (though of course I hope for the first scenario for BOTH of us!) OPne way or another, respecting yourself, loving your child, and being firm in your personal boundaries will treat you well I think.

September 5, 2005
12:15 am
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exoticflower
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Oh, and the lie...take from it, know that lying is like saying you're guilty or hiding something ugly...do you actually have something ugly to hide? No? Well, you can't go back, but you can learn from it and not make this mistake again, yippie for mistakes, they are what teach us, they are how we grow and make our lives easier and less cluttered every day!

September 5, 2005
5:06 pm
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EF, You are so wise, I know the lying was wrong, but seriously did it out of self protection I think...

X emailed me the other day and stated NOT to contact him about anything but our daughter, I"ve done that, so far he's emailed, called and showed up with out notice ALL within 48 hours of sending me that email. I've respected his wishes to no contact and NOW he emails me to bitch about me not responding to him when he goes off about what an ass "R" is etc...
Seems I"m damned if I do and damned if I don't.
I'm beginning to think, HE was the cause of my emotional rollar coaster!!
He'd get "bi-polarish" and that would trigger all my codependent responses!
What a mess, I feel a little stronger today and not quite so self hating.

September 5, 2005
10:15 pm
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exoticflower
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You ALWAYS have the right to refuse to be mistreated, yelled at, berated. If he treats you poorly, REFUSE it, refuse to talk to him at all. In time, he should see that it gets him nowhere and cut it out. Its working well with my daughters father, when he can't get the unhealthy response he wants from me (i just work it out here instead), he simply gets bored or discouraged easier. It's like dealing with a child, you have to be firm when he tests his boundaries.

As for the lie...I do know that feeling of 'protecting yourself'...what I am learning in therapy right now is that I don't have anything to protect myself FROM a lot of times! I can refuse mistreatment, I don't have to play into dysfunction to avoid it!

September 5, 2005
11:26 pm
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I had 2 more emails and 2 phone messages this evening while I was out. He was wondering why I wouldn't answer my cellphone, my IM, my regular phone, etc..and THEN has the nerve to tell me how he still misses me!!
This is the email he sent to me!Get this and then tell me WHAT I'm supposed to think.
"Well, youve done it this time. My goodwill has passed. I will explain to K that you and I will not be visiting or anything else anymore. She is still free to see you when she wants, I will not interfere in that, but I dont want to hear anything about you or whats going on at your house or in your life. I do not want to converse with you about anything unless it has to do with picking up or dropping off K(our daughter) or her school. I am going to ask P(attorney) to amend the divorce decree as it pertains to some things, but I will not fight for full custody at this point. I am done with you and your lies for good. You will not and cannot hurt me anymore because you will never be in a position to do so again. You are outside my heart, mind and concern from here out. I will arrange with you when I can retrieve the remainder of my things from the shop within the next week or two. Please stop emailing or calling unless it is a necessity. Im done."
WHAT WOULD YOU THINK AND DO??

September 6, 2005
12:59 am
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exoticflower
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IGNORE IT! It sounds like he is reaching for either a sense of control (Of COURSE he won't do those things, he has no legal ground, he just needs you to feel like it is his dicision for a sense of CONTROL..Aurgh!), and that is a reflection of only his own shame and him trying to hide it in a sea of power...point is, he is lean=ving you be, or if not, he is just trying to manipulate you. Let him play out his own dysfunctional game, you are healthier than that and have the right not to be apart of it!

September 6, 2005
9:36 am
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Ef, The word OOPS, doesn't cover what happened last night, lets just say we did the sex thing. yeah, I know~ go ahead and fuss, I'm just sick to my stomach this morning. The other woman had given him a book and he'd read a couple of chapters and it really upset him_it was the 3 of us with only the names changed_anyway, while I was gone yesterday, he came by, left a note, called 3 times, IM'd me, called my cell(I turned it off)came BACK by and took the note but left the envelope so I'd know he'd been here and then IM'd me late last night. It started ok, I was distant but friendly but then it just got deeper and deeper and he asked me to come over. Of course I knew when I did what would happen(it was midnight) I really didn't think we'd have tea and cookies 🙂 Anyway, he showed me the book, and the chapters that he'd read. It was about the "love bank" theory. Heard about it? So we talked for a while and then one thing led to another and I didn't get home until 4 am and now am a complete wreck-sorta. Have had some real thoughts about "R" and where that relationship ISN'T going. I have no delusions about me and X, it's over and I know it. He needed someone and I was there. I'm actually ok with the sex thing, it didn't have the emotional tie to it and I wanted to get laid anyway..(ok, I'm weak,sue me!)At least I know he's not going to sue for the full custody and all the ugly things he's said the last few days. He's started back on his steriods and that's what makes him like that. I also think he;s mildly manic depressive, but I'm not a Dr. but I sure see signs of cycling....
So, it's off to work where I will obsess all day and generally drive myself crazy for a few days until I can sort this mess out...
Why can't I just let him go? Is it giving him control if I don't let him see the emotional stuff? I'm going to see him tonight when I go and get our daughter and I'm going to pretend all is well and that last night while wrong, was in the past and best left there. I did point out some red flags I see with the new relationship and he said he'd never thought of things like that, I don't want him to be hurt again, Damn, I hurt him enough for a lifetime. He deserves to be happy. I do too, but I'm working on my emotional happiness, he's just running from the pain.

September 6, 2005
10:02 am
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((((((gold)))))...I remember the nausious feeling when I woke up next to my ex after we had split, our little daughter tucked into the crib (he wanted to spend one last night as a 'family', and then took her to the crib when she fell asleep though she always slept with us...more of that milk and cookies, huh?). All of the anger, the distrust, the hurt, it was temporarily vanished when I woke up and he was holding me...i guess THAT's where I was upset, THAT'S where the sick feeling came from. He was the person that had hurt me, disrespected me, tormented me phsycologically, and with a hug I was able to feel more longing and sadness and comfort than I was the feelings that a strong, healthy, demanding of respect me would have...It wasn't the sex, I'm as liberal as the next girl, and it was GOOD sex, seriously--nothing is better than getting with an ex in that they know how you work, you don't have to date them or get to know them, you can be selfish with them, and so on. The KISSING him is what opened up those wounds. And the touching his face when he slept. And the realizing that the alst time we had layed with him like this he still had another womans fingerprints on his body, the very place I was touching his face that time. Even thinking about it now opens those old wounds up a bit, but I think now more to air them out and remind myself of the wincing pain and sense of betrayel.

The bottom line here is that your ex husband had sex with another woman while the two of you where living as a family. He lied about it, he betrayed you, and there may have been reasons, but they are not that it is YOUR fault. He has some damn nerve using a book SHE gave to ease you inot bed, for that matter. I think as long as we make excuses for the people that have betrayed us, as long as we shoulder the blame for their own shortsightedness, it is next to impossible to move on. Also, I'm sure you don't need me telling you that sex opens old wounds...I think that can work for you though...so you have this old wound, right? It's open...as long as it's there, use the anger and the hurt, not the regret and the longing. Regret and longing will help you to gloss over what was really wrong with the relationship, blame yourself and want it back if even for a bit...anger and hurt are normal emotions, and let you remember what the real problems FOR YOU where, what you demand for yourself now, what you want for a healthy you and a healthy relationship. DOn't sell yourself short and take it on yourself, that is likely what he wanted you to do.

i hope you make it ok through your day and don't have a mini breakdown at the coffee machine or anything. I'll think of you today and wish you well ((((((((gold)))))))). Hus, ef

September 6, 2005
6:21 pm
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Hey, Ef
Today wasn't that bad, I really didn't obsess as much as I thought and honestly forgot a few times during the day. He didn't email me with any "we know it was wrong, we shouldn't have" bull poop and that made it easier.
Truthfully, like you said, the sex with someone who knows you is much more "comfortable" than "breaking in a new partner". I told him last night that he's got to tell"b"(other woman) if he wants to have a healthy open relationship with her..I said you cant hide that kind of secret and expect to NOT hide others, see what I mean?
You know, I think I did part of it just so he can remember how good that part of our marriage was. The other parts sucked but not the bedroom part. and maybe next time he's with her, he'll think of me! I know, thats mean spirited but I deserve to gloat just a little after what he's done to me.
the next big question is "what about "R"???? He's so on my poop list right now I'm about ready to tell him, never mind buddy, you just lost the best thing that ever happened to you! and put him out of my heart forever. Something keeps me coming back to him and I don't know what the hell it is...X has him beat in most of the important things, $,stability of work, manners, etc.. but for some damn reason I feel drawn to "R". WHY????Is it a chapter I never got to close, I called him last night and he was hog hunting and THAT was more important than talking to me, he said he'd call me later, my phone still hasn't rang!! I don't want a man or relationship that can't put me at or near the top of his priority list. I don't think that's too much too ask.

Thanks for all the listening and good advice, you're the greatest!

September 6, 2005
7:09 pm
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exoticflower
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Hog Hunting? Good God, the last time I heard that was on my 21st birthday, the day I vowed never EVER to go to a bar with a group of guys again. ADULTS do something so mean? If so, this guy is a smarmy jerk too, he doesn't deserve you. Or do you mean literal hogs? Because that's a different story and I would like to retract the previous statement then.

I'm trying to make a list of the things I must have in way of respect from the partner that deserves me...I keep being surprised that I edit it so much..."no, maybe that's being pushy, no, that is asking too much". Maybe the key is sitting down and writing out the sort of things we would want from a partner if we where the absolutely perfect women we want to be...and then holding ourselves to it anyway! 🙂

September 6, 2005
11:26 pm
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Ef, You have a list too? I've edited mine so often and started over and then when I read it, I sound needy, whiney, bitchy, and just toss my hands and give up for a while. If I don't know what I want, how can I expect him to??
Yes, actual wild pigs, they get into the cow pastures and tear up the grass and that causes weeds to grow.
"R" was born 125 years too late, he's SO a real cowboy and outdoors type. Which is ok, I'm also that way~to a point. About the only thing we don't have in common is I LOVE baseball and football and he doesn't. Its on during hunting season he says... 🙂

I gave X my codependent book to "look" at this evening. he says he's not codependent but I think he's gonna find "the other woman" is and maybe it will help him understand why I did some of the things I did in our marriage.

September 7, 2005
12:08 am
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exoticflower
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Oh, Gold, let him get his own codep books, and deal with his own life with this woman. His mistakes are his to make and maybe grow from, maybe not. I hate to see you waste your valuable energy showig him where he needs help when you could be putting it towards healing and loving YOURSELF!!!

I know what you mean about the list exactly! It is a reflection of poor self esteem...I almost TRY to go past the comfort zone, like if I think I would like to be listened to a little more, maybe, if it's interesting you know...then I recognize that and let it get a little too forced and a little too much and say "I will be heard and loved, the things I say are interesting!". Then, if just a little bit of it sticks, I am giving myself a bit more love than before and that is a bit more love that I will know I deserve in the future. SOmeone had a fun thread here once where we all said something uncomfortably possitive about ourselves...at our stages in life, some of us sucessful, with partners and happy children and inspiring one another, so many of us where just at a loss and couldn't ind something! Of course it helped so much having each other to give a nudge and ay "no, really, I've noticed this, you really don't see it?" ...wish I could remember that thread! Gnight Gold, I've loved talking about this stuff with you...I think in a lot of ways I erally vibe the way you feel about him and about yourself, I'm working on a lot of the same things right now. ANd trying hard to keep the focus on ME, which is a real struggle!

September 7, 2005
9:48 am
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Ef, I posted a new thread. It's a "list of my demands" I sent to "R". LOL Will you read it and tell me what you think?

X thinks putting ourselves first is stingy, I told him that codependents NEVER put themselves first so when we try to heal, that's where we have to start!
I wanted X(he's not codependent) to see the checklist of traits, it may help him understand me and see if he's walking into another mess.
Do I feel a rescue twinge here by "helping" him see his possible errors? hmmmn interesting thought and if so, WHY? He left me for this woman and I'm trying to make sure HE doesn't get hurt!! Yep, it's a rescue moment~ Gotta stop.

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