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going around again
February 23, 2004
2:02 pm
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marley
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nancee -

I feel for you, I am in the same boat. I keep thinking if I tell myself long enough that I will be okay with out him then it will be (on the flip side of that I find myself believing if I pray hard enough for him to come back to me he will, sick huh?)

You should check out this website - it is funny even if it doesn't apply.

http://www.angelfire.com/indie.....index.html

For me, she could have been talking about my EX, it was pretty uncanny, but is there something truly lovable about totally self-absorbed men? I think it is as we have been saying, we love them to avoid ourselves. Why do we do that?

By the way, no one should call you psycho or think that you are nuts b/c you go to therapy. It never worked for me, but mostly b/c they just listen to me whine and don't really kick me in the butt and tell me to get on with my life (but you guys do so THANKS A TON!)

February 23, 2004
2:38 pm
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HI all,

I have to keep this short. I'm in a meeting/seminar all day today, but I'm out for lunch and wanted to check my e-mails, etc.

So, you are all sitting around obsessing about him?

Why? What good is that doing? It is earning you money? Compounding interest in your bank account? Helping you meet new and interesting people? Helping you lose that extra weight or toning up?

What exactly is the result of sitting there obsessing over these guys?

It leaves you feeling: stupid, inferior, unloved, depressed. These men that are so wonderful - this is what they make you feel like?

Life is short, really really short. All of this time that you are sitting there obsessing about them, hoping and praying and planning, scheming, and coniving to get them back - is wasted time.

At the end of our lives, we CANNOT get that time back. We do not get a "do-over" - the time is gone. For what? What exactly did you get out of wasting that time? Nothing. Well you got some things... headaches, heartaches, ulcers, sleepless nights.

Have you ever wondered WHY they are not feeling as bad as you? Could it be because - the did just that? They moved on. Yes, I know that hurts like hell to think about - and in the long run believe it or not, it's not healthy for them because they just leap from one relationship to the next. So, while I encourage you to move on, don't just leap into bed with the next person that smiles your way. Give yourself some time to heal.

But in the meantime, when you catch yourself doing these things, make the EFFORT to do and think something different. Even if it's painting your toe-nails a silly shade of pink. Or talking to your dog. Or writing a letter to your friend from school that you lost touch with. Take a class on underwater basket weaving - just DO SOMETHING!

Because right now, you are wasting your life.

Z.

February 23, 2004
2:48 pm
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marley
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Zinnie -

Thanks for the note. I am doing better about not obsessing today. I am actually working at work. I just wish the healing would get on with it, you know what I mean?

Anyway, I booked a plane ticket home for my younger brother's 21st b-day party and am really excited about that!

I am trying to stay distracted, don't worry about that - it is just hard. But if I take the detox seriously I will make it through, I know it and I will feel better at having ACTUALLY moved on with my life.

Thanks so much for your support.

Marley

February 23, 2004
3:34 pm
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nancee
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Thanks, Zinnie. It is helping me to have others to talk to and share experiences with. It does make me see how much time I am wasting. And that I deserve better than this. It's just a one day at a time thing. I don't know what tomorrow will bring, but today I am okay and getting stronger. I am so thankful for that. I am also very thankful to have found this wonderful place where I can talk about what's bothering me and get some honest input.

Nan

February 23, 2004
10:01 pm
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marley
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OK - maybe I am wasting my life. Entirely possible. In fact probably correct - so here is the next question. He is my friend, at the very least and I probably should stop talking to him entirely, starting immediately. However he often does me tremendous favors and now he is asking me to pick him up from the airport (he emailed me back and asked me) so the standard advice now is no - don't pick him up. Is this right? I mean he is my friend and I don't really want to do anything to damage that friendship - you know what I mean?

February 24, 2004
12:05 am
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Zinnie
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Are you wanting to remain friends - better yet, CAN you remain friends without getting hurt as you see him with other women, and as he continues to "Enlighten himself?"

I guess that is the decision you have to contemplate.

Perhaps send him a car to pick him up. That way, you are helping him get home - but, you do not have to see him and put yourself through more heart ache.

Think about it. You are already upset about him going to Costa Rica anyway to spend time with this girl. You were just upset again because you found out that he sent her more money, so you know this will be on your mind. He is also bound to tell you about his time down there, with her - and possibly with any other women he might have met at the commune.

So - perhaps just e-mail him back, and say "I cannot do that, but I will gladly call and even pay for a Super Shuttle to pick you up and take you home."

Z.

February 24, 2004
11:54 am
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marley
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The thing is I really do want to SEE him, you know, like maybe just see him get off the plane or go to baggage claim and then leave (is that sick?) I am not sure how would handle any of that other stuff, the money and all of that.

I probably could pay for the super shuttle, but I wouldn't want to - I mean I am ALWAYS doing favors for him at my own expense. But your right that may be the safest way to play things. Then just figure out a way to get his key back to him (which I am pretty set on since we have talked about it).

I just know I want to see him - plus I want him to watch my dog when I go out of town for my brother's birthday and take me to the airport then or pick me up.

I am so terribly conflicted about all of this because he has TRIED to be my friend and at times we have both wanted it to be more than it is, but then he backs away and I am left heartbroken and lost. I do not want to do that again, but when I think about honestly and truly never seeing him again . . . not being a part of his life. Artist mentioned that she once had a friend like this when it got to be too much - how does that happen? how do you leave then?

I just don't want him to think I don't want him in my life. I do, I am just not sure HOW.

February 24, 2004
12:15 pm
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I know, I feel kind of the same way. Like I want to say "I'm going on with my life, but I'll be here if you decide you want a relationship with me." Like I'm afraid if he thinks I don't want him, he might not come back. I can't have it both ways. I don't think I could be just friends with 'him' because there is just too much history between us.

Someone told me that if he really wants to be with me, nothing will stop him. I'm not so sure of that. He's so passive, I honestly think he would let me go rather than fight for me. That's why he stayed in his marriage all this time, because it was convenient for him to have me and also be able to be at home with his children. Now, you'd think he was the first person who ever went through a divorce. And he is so busy feeling sorry for himself that he can't make any time for me. Do I need that? I want someone who knows what they want and isn't afraid to talk about it or go after it. Not some passive, can't hold a serious conversation boy who is afraid of true intimacy.

The problem is, he's been in my life for so long I can't imagine my life without him. I don't know how we leave them, Marley. Maybe we can figure it out together.

February 24, 2004
1:29 pm
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Marley,

O.K. - here is the question. Think about this. Think hard about it before you answer.

1. Do you want a romantic relationship - knowing the way he is? When I say this, I mean really think about it. Do you want a 100% committed relationship, where you are both giving and taking with the end result being marriage? This means he is 100% with you for you. Not running around being Mr. Enlightenment, and giving you - for lack of a better word "sloppy seconds."

2. If the romantic feelings were not in the way, would you want him as a friend. When I say a friend, I mean a true friend. One that you can call on at any time of the day or night, who will do anything he can to help you out. This is a friend.

3. You say that you are always doing things for him at your expense. Does he reciprocate?

There are other options for you to do. You can find someone who is bonded to care for your dog if you do not want to kennel her. Or do you know of someone else that might be able to help you out by keeping your pup for you while you are out of town?

I don't know where you live, but most major airports have a park-and-ride service. We have one here in Dallas, called "The Parking Spot" - it's awesome. Covered, 24 hour guarded and secured, and they have a shuttle bus that takes you from your car right to your airport gate. The cost here is $7.00 per day.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that, if you want to move on, then move on. Don't keep creating reasons to keep this man in your life if he is not giving you what it is that you need.

Like I said before - you have to look at yourself and realize you are the salmon special - not yesterday's tuna casserole.

Z.

February 24, 2004
1:43 pm
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marley
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Z -

In response . . .
1) Absolutely YES, I am just not sure if it is possible since this does not seem to be what he wants all of the time. I am willing to work with him if he thinks this is a realistic possibility - I guess I am waiting.

2) Again YES, he is always willing to help me move, help me with my family, give me a shoulder to cry on, etc. I think often that had we never tried to be boyfriend/girlfriend we would have been the best of friends

3) He reciprocates, and usually when he is trying to be nice to me I am a brat. Like oh why are you doing this now instead of when I really wanted you to do it 5 minutes ago or whatever, I have had very unrealistic expectations of men generally for a long long time.

4) We have the super-shuttle and I am sure I could figure out a way to send it to the airport to get him, however I miss his face - it has been 5 weeks.

5) I am very curious to know if I still want to be with him, I know that this is a decision I can make all on my own, but I just want to feel if there is anything there between us or not - if there is I couldn't care what he did in Costa Rica, it is his life.

I will say this, in some ways I admire his attempts to gain "enlightenment" in other ways I see it as another excuse to deal with the really hard stuff that he finds flawed in his own personality. (I see this in my other friends who are attempting to be enlightened as well).

I know I am the chef's special and not dog scraps but this one is the one I want, for whatever reason and he is a good person. He told me once that I was not a big enough "bi**h" when it came to getting things from him. I take this to mean I am a little too accepting of his behavior and not quite needy enough of his resources. But whenever I ask, unless I am downright rude, he is always there to help me.

Now what?

February 24, 2004
8:09 pm
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marley
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Hey HELP HERE PLEASE!!!!!

I know I am great at telling people when to go, so someone please tell me what a jerk he is etc etc etc so I don't feel like I am ditching him at the airport!!!!

February 25, 2004
12:51 pm
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marley
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OK - So I still haven't emailed him back, it is day 2 of the second detox and I am feeling so much better just because I have not emailed him. It is weird though because I so want to see him and am not ready for him to come back.

Also, I am having a hard time focusing on school, I have finals in 2 weeks and I can't seem to pull it together to get it done. ANy advice on how to NOT think about him?

February 25, 2004
12:56 pm
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I can relate, Marley. I have been to school for medical coding and have my certification exam coming up in 2 wks and haven't even begun to study. I can't tell you how not to think about him any more than I can stop thinking about things instead of studying. Good for you for not emailing him back. I know it's hard. I don't know, maybe try to focus on school as something that you have to do and then you will have plenty of time to think about him later. I do that sometimes, just tell myself I'm going to watch a certain movie and concentrate on it for 2 hours and then I can think about him later. My mind wanders occasionally but I'm getting better at it. I've been doing better at work and I think I'll pull it together for my test. You can do it too. Do something for you for a change.

XOXO
Nan

February 25, 2004
3:00 pm
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marley
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Thank you Nancee.

I just feel like I have pretty much turned my life over to this guy and now I have nothing to show for it. It is like "butter in the sun" if you know what I mean. I am feeling so much better without emailing him and needing to talk to him. I am still very much on the fence about this airport thing. I mean I don't want to pick him up, I want it to be like Zinnie suggested where I can at least detox and move on with my life. But at the same time I want to see him so badly and I really believe that we are friends and I don't want to leave him out to dry. So now what?

February 25, 2004
10:05 pm
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I don't know girl. I am about to crash for the night but we will talk about this more tomorrow. It will all work out. Get some good rest tonight and I'll talk to ya tomorrow.

XOXO
Nan

February 26, 2004
3:43 pm
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marley
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Nancee

Everyone is telling me not to go to the airport to pick him up. I mean everyone except one person!!! Now I am wondering if I made the wrong decision and really should not go? It doesn't seem like the right thing to do when I know he would pick me up.

I still haven't emailed him and said either way, whether I will be able to or not, so I am thinking that if he just wants to wait until the last minute then it isn't that important to him and I should not bother to rearrange my life just to pick him up!

What do you think?

March 1, 2004
11:41 am
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marley
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Ok -

I am not going to go to the airport. I received an email from him this weekend regarding his flight info and this is what he said

I get in around 4 on Wednesday I think. Hope to see you.

OK what the heck is that? No flight time, no airline, no flight number, nothing! I am just supposed to show up at the airport around four pm and wait for him to magically appear, no thank you!

But I miss his smile and his laugh and his hands . . .

I haven't emailed him back, so detox is still going . . .

March 1, 2004
1:01 pm
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Marley, I just read your post on another thread about not being able to put him in a specific group. I do think my ex is a narcissist but doesn't fit the whole profile. He is very passive aggressive, won't argue with me. Just clams up anytime I want to talk about anything serious. When I've told him I need to know how he feels about me he says he isn't comfortable talking about his feelings. That's a poor excuse. As far as the narcissist thing goes, the name of his fantasy football team was 'All About Me'. That's very fitting, don't you think?
And something you said about narcissists being self loathers with low self esteem seems fitting of him too. He doesn't project that in his professional life but I think he does in other areas. This is all so interesting to me.

March 1, 2004
1:19 pm
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marley
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yes it is.

Mine is not the perfect narcissist either, he is never abusive (physically) and verbally he is just snide - which I am now realizing is a form of abuse.

I went to this website
http://www.healthyplace.com/co...../faq6.html

to find out about what kind of women are drawn to narcissists and I think I fit the profile and this is something that I am working on changing.

How are things with you otherwise? How is work? Have you spoken to him again?

March 1, 2004
1:46 pm
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Marley, let me get this straight:

1. He went to visit another girl

2. Did you offer to pick him at the airport, or did he ask you to?

3. Depending on you did ask him, take it back! If he just flew out of country, he can afford a taxi.

4. Depending on he asked you and you agreed, email him and tell him something came up and you can't. This will be your jumping off point for withdrawal.

5. Don't email or contact him after this point.

6. If you once loved this dude, you will always want to love him, deep down inside. You can try being "friends" but it's oh so difficult and hard on your heart.

I'm trying to be honest here, so I hope it doens't seem too unhelpful.

March 1, 2004
2:20 pm
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marley
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Artist -

You are right.

1. he did go down there to be with another girl - only by the time he got there she was with another man

2. at first I offered

3. then he asked

4. he couldn't really afford this trip but he took it anyway, however I have decided that this is not my problem since we are not married, he can waste his money at will.

5. About something came up (a.k.a. my excuse to not show up at the airport) I was wondering - do I email him, or phone him to tell him I am not coming or just let him figure it out when he realizes I am not there?

I did love him and will always love him, but there has to be something better than all of this right?

March 1, 2004
2:23 pm
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Marley,
I just looked up the website and I also fit the profile of someone attracted to a narcissist. The part that struck me was 'the typical partner does not know what she wants, and to a large extent, who she is and what she wants to become.' That describes me pretty well. My ex was also not abusive in the traditional sense, not physically anyway. He would just treat me with indifference at times, which is emotional abuse. He is still doing that.

I haven't talked to him in almost 2 wks, back in detox from him. This is going to be a hard week for me because this weekend would be our anniversary of when we started seeing each other. I feel I do so much better when I don't see him though. If he wants to try to get back with me after his divorce is final, chasing after him now won't change that. I'm better off going on with my life and letting him make his own mistakes and keeping myself out of it.

On a positive note, I got a really good evaluation at work last Friday which has encouraged me to do better. I take my CPC exam on the 13th and am trying to get ready for that. It's hard to concentrate though. I'm trying.

March 1, 2004
2:31 pm
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Marley,

It was his decision to take the trip and I'm glad you are seeing this.

As to what to say, my advice is to tell him something came up - YOU! Wouldn't you feel better being more straight forward than to not say anything at all? EMAIL, don't call... you might get his machine and hear is wonderful voice!

After this, yes carry on with your life and try not to give him so much real estate in your brain.

Lastly, if he's wondering what happened to you when you disappear, he'll call YOU. If he doesn't call, then you'll know.

March 1, 2004
3:52 pm
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Nancee -

CONGRATS on the job eval that is great! What is the CPC exam?

Artist -

I will email him right now and let him know that I can not come and get him. I am only concerned that he will be angry with me and try to retaliate in some way or other, but if I stop giving him "free rent" in my head then I don't think it will bother me so much.

Here is what I will send him:

Um, something came up for Wednesday evening and since you never gave me any specific info on when you are coming in, I doubt I will be there.

I will try to drop your key off at your house on Wed. morning - probably in an envelope in the mail box.

Sorry.

What do you think?

March 1, 2004
3:57 pm
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Here's what I think:

---------------

How about:

Something has come up and I can't pick you up from the airport after all. I'll drop off your key in the next few days.

Simple and straight forward. Second sentence says that you have moved on to better things and will drop off the key when you get a chance in your busy schedule.

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