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going around again
February 16, 2004
5:11 pm
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marley
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Ginger -
I just read on a different thread your 21 day detox thing and can I ask you a question. what happens when you go the 21 days (or in my case 26 days) with no contact and then he calls and you are too weak to not return the call? do you think you should try the detox again - or is it time for harsher measures, and if so what are they?

February 16, 2004
5:16 pm
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Zinnie
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If you really want to travel around the time to do that is now... once you start having kids it becomes a whole new ball game.

My first husband and I traveled a lot, because he was on the road for work and I went with him. I did love our trips that we took, but it can be all consuming when the kids were along and I won't even begin to talk about the expense of them coming with us, although we always had a great time and could certainly afford to bring the children.

But, if you really want to travel the world and see things... honey - do that now. Live it up, you are so young. Have a good time... then worry about getting married and having babies. You will find when you wait and marry a little older you are more content with your choices.

Z.

February 16, 2004
5:24 pm
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marley
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I am sure that you are right, but I am scared to travel alone or rather I am just coming around to the idea of traveling alone. I have always thought of traveling as a romantic adventure to share with someone I love and not something to do on my own - I spend enough time doing things on my own.

I just wanted this one person, who was not perfect, but who did all the little things right. Do you know what I mean? And he left me and he loves someone else and she has taken his money, his heart, his pride and he followed her to costa rica and she is with someone else down there and he acts like he doesn't care but I know he does, I can feel it.

So now I have told him to leave me alone and I while I believe this is the right thing to do, a part of me aches knowing that he will do as I ask and stay away and there will be no more.

How do I get over the fear of never finding that again? Where do you get your strength and wisdom in these matters? Do you ever doubt yourself?

February 16, 2004
6:03 pm
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You can get back on the bandwagon at any time you choose. If it's like an addiction, you can view it "one day at a time". For instance, just tell yourself that today you won't call him back. Maybe tomorrow you will, just not today. All detox is meant to do is get you back on your feet and make you feel like the world isn't pressing in on your any longer. You're still stuck with reality, but you should be a little stronger than you were. Detox is that period of time where the toxic chemicals are needing to flow from your body. Once you're "clean" you still need to work to stay that way, yeah?

February 16, 2004
6:38 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi Marley,

Do I ever doubt myself? Sure, all the time. Do I make mistakes? More than I would care to count on a daily basis.

I have traveled all through the US, Canada and Europe on my own, with a group of girl friends, and with my husband. I don't know why it has never bothered me being by myself - except like I said I come from such a large family that when I have time to myself I tend to relish in it. When I toured the US and Canada alone, I met all kinds of interesting people. I met some neat people that were traveling too from various parts of the world. Sometimes they would be single, sometimes it was a married couple, it was always different. I was careful, don't get me wrong - I always watched my surroundings, but I really did have a good time.

My first husband when he traveled due to work, we usually had some time on our hands where we could go and do things. But, most of the time I would go and look around while he was working. Many times we would go back together if I saw something that caught my eye.

After my husband passed away, I got a dog and we had many adventures... just she and I. I was looking over some pictures earlier that I had taken of some of our trips, we sure had a lot of fun.

My husband and I now like to travel as well, although for health reasons on my part we have not done much lately. We are hoping to go to Niagra Falls in May for my birthday and our anniversary.

Marley - I think once you get out there and start doing things, you will feel a whole lot better about yourself.

Also you cannot base what someone else is doing on when the right time to marry is. Sometimes things are just not meant to be. The woman my husband was with before me, they were together for eight years. He and I dated for a year, got engaged and married in six months. His ex called him downright angry because he did not marry her and they had been together longer. Forget the fact that they were always fighting, and he was always getting her out of trouble and finally that she cheated on him. She was mad because he was getting married - and she was still alone. I happened to be there when she called. My husband in his usual calm way tried talking to her. I could hear her screeching at him over the phone. The fastest way to get him to shut down is to scream at him. He very calmly hung up the phone. When she called right back - he would not pick it up.

You will find love again Marley, you are young and you have your whole life ahead of you. As I said, take your time and find out what exactly it is that you do want.

Z.

February 16, 2004
10:18 pm
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marley
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Zinnie -

I read what you wrote on the need prayers thread about being friends with your husband for a long time and I wonder if maybe now I made a huge mistake, although I love him and he can be a real jerk and is obviously confused on many levels, he is my friend - one of my best and now I am wondering what I should do? I mean I told him I don't think we should email, and he hasn't emailed me since I said that and I don't know if it because I asked him to or because of the other stuff I wrote to him (not mean, just honest).

I really think we need the space and I hope there is someone else for me, but he was the truest friend I have had (other than my mother) and he usually just accepted me as I was and was always willing to help me.

Do I just wait it out - or do I say something before he gets back?

February 16, 2004
11:01 pm
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Zinnie
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Did you give your story at the beginning of this thread? I'll pull up all posts and read...

Z.

February 16, 2004
11:21 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi Marley,

I pulled the entire thread to read what all has happened.

I think there have been too many fuzzy lines for far too long to make much sense of your relationship. Like you said, he has you waiting in the wings to be the clean up person - for lack of a better word.

Now, he is in an enlightenment commune? What is that? Is he down there with this girl? Is she down there with the new man? Are they all down there together? That is too weird for me.

My husband and I started out by being co-workers who got along really really well. We worked on a project together and spent a lot of time together. But, when I say friends, we were platonic friends for a while before we became romantically involved with each other. We are still ultimately friends. We have stuck by each other through a lot of different things in the last 14 years. When the going got tough - he did not go... he is still here.

I was diagnosed with cancer six years ago. My husband has sat with me through chemo, surgery, hot flashes being sick. You name it, there he is. I would do the same for him.

Yes, he is the person I can really be myself with, and he has seen some pretty ugly sides. He is the most even tempered man I have ever met in my life. But, he is also reliable and will always do what he says he is going to do.

This character you are describing, although you want to hang on to him as a friend, there is too much other weirdness going on. I don't know if it is really safe for you to go back to him. I never thought I would sound like this, and yes, I know I sound like I'm up on my soap-box, but what about STD's? This whole commune thing would disturb me, in all honesty.

I think perhaps it's time for you to be alone for a bit, think about what it is that you really want. Like I said, come up with your own "no buts" list. Once I did that, it made things easier for me because I had a clear set of guide lines of what I would accept and what I would not accept. I dated a lot of different men, some were only one date - and those stories might make up a commical thread. Some were a few dats, some lasted a few weeks, and some a few months. But, when I met my husband after all of that, as I said as the time went on we just became better friends.

Does this help?

Z.

February 17, 2004
1:20 am
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marley
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Z -

Yes it helps tremendously to know that other people are out there who have had experiences I have not yet had and who can see things I may willfully ignore.

He is yes, in an enligtenment commune - I am not wholly supportive of this myself. She is there, with her new boyfriend, he has said he doesn't think about it much but I can tell he is lying.

About STDs - I am pretty sure that the physical side of our relationship is on ice for the time being and I am still just trying to figure out what the best thing to do will be when he comes back. Do we talk, not talk, try to be friends, put the entire thing on hold until one of us decides to act like an adult? Do I let him go completely and say thanks for the memories, you were great, keep in touch?

He is the oddest person I know and why I feel so drawn to him and have such unwavering understanding and loyalty sincerly amazes me, but this does not mean he is the one. I don't know what it means. That is what I am working on.

Thanks for all of your advice and if you can think of anything, please let me know.

February 17, 2004
12:00 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi Marley,

I really think if it were me, I would indeed say "thanks for the memories" and move on.

February 17, 2004
1:06 pm
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marley
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Really? You don't think we should try to be friends or anything?

I am just kind of scared - a little background might help explain ...

My first college boyfriend and I are friends (he even invited me to his wedding - although I couldn't go b/c I had been in a car accident). My second serious boyfriend just got married and basically stopped talking to me when he realized he wanted to be with the other girl and that I was being horrendous to him all the time. I am very happy for him, but I feel like had I handled the break up better he would still be a friend. I mean we have traveled together and had a lot in common - intellectually.

I am so afraid of losing another person that I have connected with. Does that say something bad about me as a person? This man (I call him Dr. Jekyll b/c he is seriously at least 2 people sometimes) he has been by my side through my sister's drug problems, my grandmother's death, my near-death car accident and for a thousand other little things. Maybe I was wrong for trying to turn his friendship into a GREAT love affair, but is it wrong to want him to be a part of my life and to continue to be there for me as he has been for the past 2 years?

Marley

February 17, 2004
1:11 pm
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Zinnie
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No, that is not wrong at all, and some people can do that. But, it sounds like you care more about him as a lover than a friend, and he flat out is not sure.

Wanting to remain platonic friends can happen, but just be forewarned he will want to talk to you about who he is dating, etc.

I give you credit for wanting to remain friends... but only you know if that is possible or not.

Love,

Z.

February 17, 2004
3:13 pm
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marley
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Z-

Thanks, I needed to read that. Sometimes I want to forget that it is so apparent he is not sure. I can't wait for him anymore and as you wrote yesterday, now is the time to start living my life.

Thanks so much for all your advice, you have really helped me.

Hope I don't relapse!!!

Marley

February 17, 2004
9:22 pm
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artist 2
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Hey Marley, I've read your conversation in detail. Let me share... 5 years ago I met a man. We had a relationship, it went south because I was too paranoid and controlling, then we became really close friends. We were SO good at being friends. though I loved him ( I mean like a brother, like a lover, like a mother, etc.), I went on to other relationships, as did he. We cried on each other shoulders about all those relationships... until one day in a moment of neediness i couldn't take not being with him and him alone. I told him to stop contacting me. As much as it hurt it helped me move on. I was stuck in this wonderful warm and drippy love that didn't care that he was dating other women, sleeping with them, and the fact that they were getting the good stuff. The love was that deep. But it was holding me back from finding other love for me. Breaking completely helped me move on... is that what you want to do? let me read the latest and see what has happened.

February 17, 2004
11:11 pm
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marley
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Artist -

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I WANT. Hoe do I get there?

Marley

February 18, 2004
12:28 am
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marley
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Z -

I haven't heard from you on this today, how are you doing?

Marley

February 18, 2004
1:17 am
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Zinnie
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HI Marley,

I wrote, three posts up!

What else is up?

Z.

February 19, 2004
12:40 am
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marley
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I am sure you saw on the losing resolve thread that I called the cops on the other issue. What is up now is that I miss him. I miss him so much. I haven't emailed, he hasn't emailed. I find myself caught up in the desire to see him name in my inbox and just to know he is well. I know he is well, but I want him to tell me. I want to be a part of his life. I just don't know. I just don't know. I want to weep I want to beat my chest and tear my hair and mostly I want him to be mine. When do these feelings go away? Do they ever go away?

February 19, 2004
7:46 am
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artist 2
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Hey Marley, why not send him a letter. Simply say you miss him - that's all. You miss him and hope he is doing ok. No emails! Letters and cards have more intention. They don't speak of the immediacy that emails do. Plus they make you wait and stay with the feeling. What do you think?

February 19, 2004
9:51 am
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Zinnie
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Write him a letter, but do not send it. Do the 21 day detox. Re-read the letter after that and then see how you feel.

You have to look at it this way Marley, life is short. All of the time that you spend obsessing over this guy and hoping and wishing for something that might not ever be - and might not be good for you at that... is time you will never be able to get back.

Hoping you are doing O.K. today.

Love,

Zinnie

February 19, 2004
9:55 am
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Zinnie, I love you, but am going to have to disagree.

I think Marley should send the letter. It's truer to her feelings. She wants to make contact, she wants to reach out and feel safe. Knowing he is actually going to read the letter and hear her and how much she misses him, how scared she feels without him.... I think could be quite healing. Keeping the feelings to herself seems like it might be like stuffing them away. Feelings need to be looked at and released. Even if it feels shameful to express, that's part of healing.

February 19, 2004
10:11 am
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Zinnie
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Hey Artist,

It's O.K. to disagree with me... anytime. I don't hold the keys to being right. Or if I did, I have misplaced them.

But, I have to dis-agree on that because she had indicated she wants to get over him. So, why send a letter laying out the feelings to someone you are trying to get over, that you know is not good for you?

Z.

February 19, 2004
10:26 am
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Why? Because it's honoring your true feelings. Plus, if you choose good feelings to pass along, rather than hateful, angry feelings - you gain a better sense of self control. The scariest feeling is being lost, or for some this means loss of self-control. I know this because of my bad temper and the success I'm having with that.

Choosing what feelings to pass along keeps a rein in on obsessive behavior too. So, she chooses to say, "hey I love you, I miss you." it's not like "please come back to me because I miss you and can't survive without you here." Affirming her feelings without being desperate signals a sense of self parenting, if you will. Hopefully the results are that she feels self-parented and secure without his being there. And that is what I hear happening here - right?

Okay - YES it's morning time and I'm doing great. All wise and wonderful and together. This afternoon all this is going to sound like so much bullhockey!

February 19, 2004
7:52 pm
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marley
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artist and zinnie - thanks for the little convo on the letter.

I have not yet sent one (he doesn't have an address in CR since he is on vacation) I am thinking of sending him one here - so he will get it with his months worth of mail and will not get it right away, but I am still undecided.

artist - you are so right in that it is truer to my feelings, but they have lead me so far astray.

zinnie - you are right in that I want to get over him.

Will write more on this later.

Thanks for the continued support

Marley

February 19, 2004
8:05 pm
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Zinnie
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Hey Marley,

Hope it helps to see what how different people have other perspectives. In my own experience, a had a bad break-up (we won't discuss how many years ago - but probably in the stone age) - and went through alot of what you are going through now.

I did the letter thing, sent cards, etc. When we finally decided to get back together, after a few days he actually teased me about them. Yes, he did.

Not saying that Mr. Englightenment would do that... but after that - when it came time for me to "get over someone" I found that by writing the letter and waiting BEFORE I sent it... it served me better - because generally something would happen between writing and sending it. Make sense?

I did do that with another person, and actually sent the letter about two months later. Later in our lives, we found out we actually made pretty good friends - I'm even a God-Mother to one of his kids. But, he told me over this last holiday season when he called after New Years - "every now and then, I pull that letter you sent me out... we had a good time." He was right, we did, but we made much better friends.

Whatever you decide to do, I hope it eases your mind.

Love,

Zinnie

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