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Getting married, do I invite my past abuser?
February 23, 2000
3:20 pm
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kay
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Well STC, I can already feel you are softening up. Let me try another quote on you, this time from Eustace Budgell:

"Some of the finest friendships are between persons of different dispositions. The mind is often attracted by perfections it lacks itself."

I don't expect you to agree with everything I have to say, STC, I am not attacking you, but I was defending myself.

Next topic....

It is not really a matter of getting back at my brother, sure there are times I have wished him dead but that doesn't take away the flashbacks I get when I am intimate with Peter. Filing a law suit against him will only make things worse, I want to get past this, not make it bigger.

I avoid him because I just think if he were out of sight it would be easier to keep him out of mind. I don't need him around, and I think if I let him know how I feel he would stay away on his own.

What do you mean by I'm overselective in my mission?

February 24, 2000
8:02 am
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andre
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When my daughter fell over and scratched her knee, there was nothing there to fuss about, but she was upset and crying and said it hurt. Do I as a parent minimise her pain, or do i invalidate her FEELINGS and make her wrong because she is upset over what I might consider, in my opinion, to be nothing?

The degree of abuse isn't the issue. The issue here is the emotional content that has the potential to paralyse the 'afflicted'.

My daughters 'scrape' may be nothing much, but the 'effect of it is VERY real.

My goal with my daughter is to recognise what she needs - comfort, someone who will listen, validation, acknowledgment, support etc.

Kay, if we lay out all your options on a spectrum, we have everything from litigation through to 'it was nothing compared to worse cases so get over it!' All of those options (or none of them) may be right.

And Kay, make no mistake, I have an opinion about what you should do, and what I would do in your position. Just ask me! I have opinions on everything!

But what is important here is what you feel you need to say or do now ... with courtesy, manners and respect and self respect.

Am I saying go public? No. Am I say back off? No. I am not telling you what to do, say or think. You are the expert in you. I am not pretending to know you better than you know yourself.

But as an observer of style and form, there is an issue that you need to resolve to your satisfaction that is remaining unresolved. And be clear here. If you decided, "I don't need to do anything or say anything about this." and you have no chatter, then I am coool about that. But if you say, "I don't need to do anything or say anything about this."and have lots of chatter, then it still isn't resolved.

Another tip, this is about you, so stay focused on what you want, and don't get sidetracked into what someone else thinks or means.

You have a race to swim and your race isn't won with a very engaging and interesting intellectual discussion about techniques and swimming style.

To win your race, you have to get in the pool and swim the race. That is the task at hand.

Don't mess around with this. Last point, there is no blue print for a magic wand here. It is not easy and there is not quick fix here. It will take you TIME to resolve and repair this one. This is the 1500 metres not the 50 metre sprint.

Stay focused and be strong.

February 25, 2000
3:55 pm
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BROC
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Kay,

I can't say I know how you feel, because I don't. I can only imagine.

As i read your thread, I can't help but point out what I believe is the real issue here, and is with all the threads in this site....you.

I can tell you for certain that at present, if you get married in the state your are in, it will crash and burn. Why? Because you have issues. And contrary to popular belief, just talking about them with your fiancee' will not get rid of them. God, it is so frustrating sometimes. People just don't get IT!

You are wounded. You will stay wounded, UNTIL you heal. Does a cut on your hand heal by just talking abuot it. Hell no. You need to clean it, put some ointment on it, a bandaid.....take care of it. Why? Why not just let it go? BECAUSE IT WILL GET INFECTED, FESTER, AND THEN YOU HAVE A REALLY BIG PROBLEM.

But, the above will go in one ear and out the other. After all, the invitations are out, etc. So the wedding must go on.

The underlying issue is the rape, not whether to invite your bro. Thats a two second decision. You wouldn't have found this site just for that little ol question. After all, didn't your fiancee' help you decide already?

You are here for the deep wound that rape caused you. You are searching for a much more, deeper, and more desperate answer to a much deepr, and more desperate problem.

But, thats just my two cents. Again, I can't imagine what being raped is like, let alone the pychological consequences of such an act.

I am sad for you. Noone deserves that. 18 or not. Drunk or not. Your brother needs the shit knocked out of him, and a TON of therapy. You need the therapy as well. Your wound will not heal any other way. It will affect you throughout your life. You fiancee, no matter how kind and caring, can never ever fill that hole this incidenet has caused. Never. That is sad, but true. And mark my words. Print this out and tuck it away for the day you need to re-read it.

You will have incidents, problems, fights, what ever you want to call them, that are caused by this open wound. Many of them. And 9 out of 10 of them will be dismissed as flukes, as "part of being married", "all married couples have problems", etc. But when you pull this note out and re-read it, these words will ring true then instead of now.

Most of us are wounded. The majority. The ones that live a happy and frutifull life are the ones that take care of themselves FIRST, then turn their attentions to thier mates, jobs, etc. This is not selfish as we have been taught it is. BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T TAKE CARE OF YOUR ISSUES (WOUNDS) FIRST, THEY WILL CREATE A SHIT-STORM OF PROBLEMS THROUGHTOUT YOUR LIFE. AND THE WHOLE TIME IT IS HAPPENING, YOU WILL WONDER WHY? WHY ME?

I hope you seek the help you need. You are not broken, or screwed up, or dirty, or anything of the like. You were violated. Plain and simple. You need to heal up the wound. Plain and simple. If you don't, well....

I am sorry that happened to you. There is no excuse for what happened. I for one, have one opinion on this matter. You rape, you get the shit knocked out of you, and if you die as a result, so be it. Harsh. Yes. Deserved. Yes. My opinion. Yes.

Heres a big hug for you.

((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))

Broc

February 26, 2000
1:27 pm
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gladly
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Kay,
I hate to give you more to read, but I faced the same situation with my father. I xed him out of my life many years ago, and at my huge formal wedding, I walked myself down the aisle. Not one person asked about my father, and the only people who knew about the abuse were my mother and sister. You, your fiancee, and the love you share are far more important than the unhappy experience that was inflicted on you by your brother. You cannot change what has happened, but you must TELL your mother and father. Be prepared for total denial and disbelief from them, and "She's crazy, it's all in her head, she wanted it!" from your brother. To accept the truth is a more terrible alternative for them, than to believe that there is something wrong with you. The reason you must tell, is that other people are in danger from an abusive sociopath. If a man can cross the line with his own sister, childish experimentation aside (that is normal), there may be many lines he will cross for his sick, selfish sexual satisfaction. Who knows how many scared, violated little girls there could be? Please warn any mother's of girls he is involved with. He remembers everything, no matter how drunk he seemed, it just lowered his inhibitions enough to attack you.
Moving on from the unpleasantness, YOU ARE FINE!! You survived it, you have moved away from it. You have a man who sounds wonderful, believe me, great memories with him will erode bad memories completely. Never pretend it did not happen, but realize you cannot let this bad thing control your future happiness. When it comes to your head, realize it, then banish it, it will become easier as time passes. Your proper attitude to your brother is SCORN. Maybe he will regret, repent, and spend the rest of his life trying to heal the situation, but don't count on it. Your second attitude is watchfulness, so he can never hurt you or anyone else. Your third action is oblivion. Move on emotionally from this, you will have a greater understanding for the kind of pain that people are carrying with them, but it will not have the power to hurt or control you any more. Congratulations on your nuptials!! You and your man will have a great day, acknowledging you love an commitment in front of all you love, and those who truly love you! He should not attend the wedding, he is in disgrace!

February 26, 2000
7:31 pm
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janes
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I guess I really agree with Broc here. If all else fails..elope and seek counseling. Most pastor will offer it free and really only jerky step mom's and other fanatics do that righteous shit...there but for the grace of god...!!!

There are some really great websites that can offer you lots of help and resources too. Dr.Irene verbal abuse is one. Look at some of the lists for Adult Children of Alcohalics (symptoms for dysfuntional families too)
Most families are somewhat dysfunctional..esp when you add in rigidity/over zealousness in relighion and SECRETS.
Don't do what you SHOULD do...do what you need to do..for you and your future husband.

When you are abused it doesn't just go away...you need to cleanse and cauterize your wounds....

Good luck!!!

February 26, 2000
9:17 pm
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STC
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your mission is your choice - set of choices - what you choose to carve your life out of. Making one incident the focus when in actuality - your hurt comes from 19 years of abusive upbringing is beyond rediculous - your choice - but none the less, rediculous.

The reason the know the details about the girl mentioned was because my sister was found - still tied, naked and almost alive 10 days later.

February 27, 2000
6:52 pm
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janes
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The secret that an an older cousin abused (nopenetration) my sister and I is still a secret. Non belief and no real ending kept us from telling anyone but each other. But the memory haunted us both is seeminly "silly " ways. Sleeping like spoons when my hsband penis would brush a certain part of my leg I would feel only revulsion for the man I loved most.

Abuse is abuse..there is no excuse for it ...ever. And no real solution. We were both sssooooohappy when that man died. Attended the funeral gleefully.
STC is right in that all of this comes down to YOUR choice. And I agree that the wound you are carrying are from more than being raped by your brother.

Sit down and write an autobigrphy...a bruatally honest one. Put it away for a week ..reread it and be more honest.

If your family was diysfunctional that can be as bad as having an alcohalic parent or chemical abuser in the family. It's not a normal (whatever that is) environment. Only recently have I admitted to myself my dislike of my mother, my anger at my mother for not protecting us from her and the degree of dysfunction in my family.

Honey...you're a grown-up. Let go of letting your parents control your feeling and let go of finding their approal

Goodluck

February 28, 2000
8:27 am
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andre
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Kay,

Best of luck. I've said just about all I can think that will help. Reread it as you need. I will check in every couple of days or so to see how things are developing. If you want to chat start a thread called, "Calling Andre".
Talk soon. Be strong.

February 28, 2000
9:25 am
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hazza
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Hi all,
STC, i am so sorry for the tragic encounter your sister and family have had to endure, it is one of those things i think where what ever words i choose they will just sound stupid and crass, but i know no other way to express my heartfelt empathy towards you, so hope you accept the emotion i try to give to you and ignore my wording.
I understand now why you feel the way you do about Kay's emotions. When you have seen something so terrible as that it is entirley natural to feel that pain and emotional scarring would be less if the abuse someone had suffered was not so great.

However, pain is not a scientific equation. It makes perfect sense to our logical minds that pain should be graded and in accordance with the suffering that caused it, our brains are designed to think that way, we are designed to rationalise and to group peices of information in our heads to make sense of them.

But, emotions are not controlled by the logical part of the brain, there are too many factors to be considered. My brother has had many situations in his life that would have finished me off but they do not affect him that way at all. Why?
Maybe becuase he had a more secure upbringing than me, he may have had more support and been taught better coping skills, maybe it is down to genetics and his DNA means he copes better, i don't know.

There are many reasons that Kay and others are having problems with their own abuse stories on this site, and while i understand your natural reaction to say "hey get over it it was not that bad" peoples feelings do not work that way.

Some people are affected differently by trauma, their are many family dynamics that play a part too. No one here i don't think ever stands in judgement and tells a person how they should or should not be able to cope with any situation. If Kay or anyone else is hurting and scared and confused, we care. End of story. If youa re feeling pain we care just as much, just as people have cared for us.

We are not in the business here of grading and labeling peoples life experiences here to see who had it worse or running any kind of emotional trauma Top Ten charts to see who has suffered most this week. Pain is pain, everyone has a different story and has a different personality. The things i have problems with would probably make you fall of your chair with laughter becuase on the face of it, they seem very trivial, but they are still stopping me move forwards sometimes. To realise that you are not alone and that many people have suffered worse is very important to recovery, its called counting your blessings and being positive, BUT it is not a cure in itself. You cannot shame someone elses pain away no matter how logical your argument may seem. You can do that with some things in life, but emotions are deeply personal and at the end of the day it is a case of "the man next door may have abroken leg, but its still my toe hurting that is stopping me walk down the road"

I was deeply concerened about you from your postings, as were others, becuase you do sound like you too have pain, from the little you have disclosed I see why although i don't make any claims to understand or know you yet at all, but i want to say that there is room for all peoples thoughts and opinions but using one experience against the other helpes no-one, far better to shared experience.

Please talk to here, i think you would have so much to offer people by way of experience may be you help people get through their pain and help with your own too? It really helps people here when they hear how other people have recovered from their own traumas.

Peace to you and everyone
Hazza

February 28, 2000
10:37 am
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kay
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STC, I am truely sorry for your entire family. I did not know how close to home that experience was when you told it. I believe you must feel great pain for your sister and I understand now why you think I "don't qualify".

I had the feeling that you had suffered directly or indirectly, all your posts indicated it. Feel free to tell us more of your feelings when you need to. Please forgive my rude words, the last thing I wanted to do was to cause more hurt.

February 28, 2000
11:05 am
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kay
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Broc, your words are blunt and I appreciate them, but I just can't see eye to eye with you. I can't put my life on hold until everything is happy.

I feel if I were to stop and take a good look I could solve a lot of things, but the world doesn't slow down for me to do that. I've known my fiance for 8 years, we wanted to get married for the past 5, but I kept putting it off because I wasn't ready. We finally set a date and got engaged. I don't have any last minute gitters about him, I know he is the one. He said he would wait as long as I needed so what is the difference if he stands with me through my problems while we are married or if he stands waiting for me? He says I'm worth waiting for.

He knew me before all this happened and saw the change. I tell him that I will never be the same as before, then he assures me he can see me getting better all the time and that I am slowly showing my real self again.

Thankyou for your concern about our future together, but my heart tells me the marriage is a good move and it will work.

February 28, 2000
11:36 am
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kay
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So I am actually feeling pretty good about myself. I had a talk with my father the other day (not about my brother). We actually talked about my choice of work. My parents have always pressured me in school and after dropping in and out of school I got my honours B.Sc. My work terms while in school were always successful and took me to a few different places, but I don't think I ever really had a passion for science even though I did well.

I finally told him that I felt I've wasted the past 5 years making him happy instead of myself and that I was ready to put science on the back burner. That I felt that in order to really succeed in the biotech field you need to live science and I just couldn't see myself in a lab anylonger. All this took him back a step but I think he understood because he told me to follow my heart. He told me all he wants is for me to be happy and he pushed me so that I wouldn't miss any opportunity, now I have the opportunities at hand and I can choose among them but I should keep myself happy. Sure he was disappointed but he would be more disappointed if I wasn't true to myself.

Now I am feeling that he has respect for me. My mother stands the other way on the issue and thinks I shouldn't just throw away 5 years of education, but it's not like that.

I think since my father had his brush with death (heart attack) he has been more open to living. He used to be so stubborn and angry at life, but lately he encouraging and happy. It is almost as if his heart attack was a good thing.

So now that I feel he understands me more I feel as if I could share more of my feelings with him. As for telling him about my brother, I don't think he is ready for that yet.

February 29, 2000
4:10 am
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hazza
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Hey Kay,
Well done, you are making the first steps in choosing your own way, this is brilliant, in time you will get your mother to understand too, this is exactly the kind of thing you needed to do for a while now i think.

You seem very sure about your partner, that is great you are very lucky, i too felt that maybe you should wait but now i understand that you are not rushing things and have thought them through i realise that you know what you are doing.
You have every reason to feel pleased right now, you are doing really well.
peace
Hazza

February 29, 2000
7:22 am
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janes
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Good job with your dad. As for your mom...five years of education will never be wasted. and doing it with Honours will only open more doors in any field.

You now always have the important "something to fall back on" (gee whiz I hate that phrase)

sounds like you have a keeper of a fiance'.

Good Luck.

March 2, 2000
7:21 pm
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knb
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sounds like a sleeper!

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