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getting in touch with the child within
May 31, 2000
9:33 am
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hazza
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I found great curry within from my last food fight!

I found it within my hair, clothes, shoes....

I am very jealous of your whirlpool spirit - now I know why youa re so chilled!!

Anyway, today I am still trying to decide whether to go to a bar tonight to celebrate my reflexologists birthday. I feel that i woul dlike to go because she is trying very hard to be friends and I like her.
I know I could explain to her and she would understand if I don't go, but I also know that i feel quite uneasy in that sort of place.

oh decisions decisions!

I will try and go and let you know what i did!
Peace
Haz
ps if you food fight with grapefruits then make sure you peel and segment them FIRST, otherwise it just hurts - lots.

Talking of pain - have any of you guys played Paintball???
Mindless violence i know, but damn good fun!
see ya

May 31, 2000
3:16 pm
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infaith
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Guest, its nice to see you talking without editing or intellectualising so much, continue to speak from your heart, then a path is opened to that very place for healing to return to.
god bless
praying for you

May 31, 2000
4:41 pm
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thanks all ... for wasting more time on me! .. i feel guilty i'm not responding as i should. in real life i turn people away from myself. If that happens here, pls know that this is my OWN fault, all of you are ok. so if it happens, it will be my fault or whatever. dont mind .. šŸ™‚ ..

u know everyone i just run away from getting close to people. When you all payed attention to me, i got frightened, i think. I made up excuses like i dont need this, or i just wanted to run away from it! Wonder whats whats wrong? Or maybe nothings wrong?? really hard to know.
and then answering all ur posts .... seems like a work to menow, since i didnt write anything since 2 days or so.

tez i only think that people care, and only YOU ppl care. No one in my life, except maybe my best friend, the girl i told u about. but we're so much in the same boat. The wounded inner child ...
tez said if both persons are co-dep, the relationship can be very painful which i agree with ... i think i experienced it myself with her. i've toldher i've GOT to get healed, or there's no other way out. But if she doesnt want to change, it will be ok with me, BUT atleast *I* have to heal for the relationship to work in some way. I know things will be fine if I get fine.

Thanks Brenda for the prayer. I dont know if it worked. Maybe the result would be obvious to me later .. hopefully !!
though i did see some improvement. i thought she had left, and i told her jsut forget me its no use, but she came back! .. but i dont know whether the prayer came first or this happened first, so i dont know. thanks again .. i hope it works out ..

Tez i think you ppl care because of all these posts ! ..
even then, u see how i turn away from care, i get uncomfortable when i'm cared for, when someone tries to get close to me. And after that the ppl will turn away too and i'll be back to square 1 .. ! .. sort of ...

the only way i know is working on myself. I'm reading that book, and i have other things to do too. Study and work. But study is the main thing. I dont spend too much time on it, but it just keeps bugging me. Even if i'm free its not gaurantee that i'll be spending that time on healing myself, maybe sleeping, wasting time on internet, just kkiling time.

Tex at that time, i was just feeling external rage, not resentment i think. wanted to destroy everything outside of me ... but its over now, i dont feel that right now. though i wonder when it will be back.

i didnt get quite what u meant by if 'they got to know the real me'.
I think if u got to know the real me, it would better. i know i'm not bad actually .... just this stupid low selfesteem. thats all. this wounded inner child.
i know that i should be open atleast here .... that would help i guess.

spirit i havent eaten banana splits .. i think ever.. šŸ™‚ .. is it the milk shake sort of thing? mix up milk with sugar and bananas ? my fahter is the sort, very enthusiactic. Sometimes he'll give us a surprise. we'll be in our rooms and he'll bring up a jug of milkshake and glasses and offer us some! .. šŸ™‚ .. sometimes hes so energetic. hehe .. when eating apples he'll always offer me a slice, and i'll always refuse it. Dont like apples too much, even fruits. i know i should.

hmmm ... u get close i run away. i run away, you run away. u run away i get close. you get close i run away. pretty intersting huh ?? šŸ™‚ .. haha ..
whats the way out ??

sometimes i doubt what i myself said ..
ah well ... got to get better ..no other way !!

b/w shall we start part II coz this thread is getting too big to load it on the computer ?

May 31, 2000
4:50 pm
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Spirit, the kid in me wants to be loved, and to love, enjoy life, be healthy, have a great body, eat more, be left alone, or maybe want company ?? like bradshaw said we ossilate between the fear of abandonement and the fear of engulfment. i think he said its a sign of co-dep.

i dont want to study, do any work, i wanna have sex with someone i love and love her so much and always be like that. but i want to married at first. want my brother to get alright, i dont want him to be like me. want that my mother dont bug me anymore and leave me to live my life. but i'm working on her, tying to give her the idea to leave me alone.

for all these things to happen and to solve the problems i know i must be mentally healthy !! ..
seems like i know everything but cant practice it! maybe i dont know everything. yeah... i need experience and time.
whatever..
my kid ... he wants to fly airplaces, drive cars on the race track and see whats the speed limit. wanna do all sorts of fun things. many other things too. but i dont feel like doing them most of the times. i wonder if its the Parent in me thats wants me to have fun or the child ?? ... i mean is it i SHOULD have fun or i WANT to have fun ? hard to know ...

May 31, 2000
8:52 pm
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Guest-guest.

Hang in there, mate. Everything is going to be all right. You'll see.

May 31, 2000
10:40 pm
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Here's something that should push ppl away from me further still. Have an idea of what goes on in my mind:
(its only my evil side but i had to tell you ppl i guess, so you know what goes on inside me at times)
(haha, see how pitiful i'm sounding? as if i like all the attnetion ! maybe i do.)

tez u asked why ppl care about? Well, maybe because for you ppl, giving advice will give boost for your egos. Maybe YOU'll feel better after giving the advice. So infact the reason you ppl are caring about me might be that you YOURself want to feel better (and not care about ME). Haha .. man i'm so bad ...
plz dont mind this ok ..
See? youre caring not for me but for urself! Maybe u guys are co-dependent and dont really mean the help youre giving. You just think that "if i wont reply, he might get upset and then i'll be responsible for his downfall or whatever."

but these are the things that make me push myself away from people. i will just not trust them, when it is needed so much! ..

sorry ... ! dont mind it plzzz... cant help these thoughts and i thought i'd tell you.

see no matter what anyone does, i'll always doubt him at the most critical point when what i really need to do is beleieve in his (his advice), instead of thinking of excuses to ignore the advice..?

May 31, 2000
10:45 pm
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thanks tez ...
i guess i just need time.

June 1, 2000
2:03 am
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i get crazy sometimes. If that happens, anyone dont listen to me! Dont mind anything i said that doesnt sound right ... thanks ..

June 1, 2000
3:51 am
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hazza
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Hi Guest,

You made an interesting point that we may be showing signs of co-dep by giving advice to others. It is a point many of us have raised before, so you are in no way evil by wondering that - it is natural to question things isn't it?

BUT! personally speaking, i don't even think that what we give to others here is necessarily advice anyway! I think we are giving and taking time to each other and just talking.

Sure, if i say something to someone and it makes them feel beter then I am glad. If that is a sign of co-dep, then frankly that is one part of co-dep I don't want to lose!!

If we get over zealous on our concepts of co-dependency then we would NEVER find anyone or anything that we could say shows no signs of co-dep. SHort of finding some guy somewhere on a desert island alone for the last 20 yrs, like that japanese guy who thought WWII was still going on until he '70's living in the jungle alone. And I am not altogether sure that he was totally healthy after all that!!

You and I both know that that is your insecurity speaking there. Which is fine. But it can help you if you learn to recognise the different aspects of yourself like that.

With me, if I have silly anxious thoughts, I try to remindmyself that that is my anxiety speaking, not me.

I think that in the post you made before the one about co-dep, you made a few statements that came from the "real" you!
You talked about wanting to be with a woman you love, about getting married and so on.

The first steps we can ever take is to know what it is we actually WANT! and you are starting to do that.
Sure the old insecurity thing pops up afterwards to throw you a curve ball - expect that to happen, it will for a while yet, but recognise it.

Now, you have strong feelings for your friend.

Tell her, Tell her and then tell her again!

Life is so short my friend, what is the worse risk?

that you belive that she cares for you (which she obviously does!) and you risk having a close relationship with her OR you never allow yourself to be close and suffer the "if onlys" later on???

Easier said that done i Know, but learn to recognise that insecure voice inside you when it speaks and tell it quite firmly to piss off.

You want your life back from this bully of insecurity. The real you spoke of marriage, trust and love.
The insecure voice told you you can never have these things. Well that will only be true if you keep listening to that insecure voice.

If you speak to your girlfriend and she tells you something good about yourself - watch for what your mind then thinks. Does it find excuses to de-value what your friend has said?
If so, argue back with it and then ignore it.
Even if you can just enjoy your friendship with this girl without your insecure voice getting in the way, then you will be learning to master it.

start by finding something that you KNOW you are good at - SOmething that you believe in yourself OVER you insecure voice. What it is doesn't matter.
It could be "I know I make a damn fine cup of tea!"
say this good point to yourself, and feel what it feels like to know that that thing is true about yourself. remember that feeling and try to find it again in other areas of yourself, try to feel that feeling of truth over the deception of the insecure voice.
These of course are only tips I have used myself to feel better and found that with practice they start to help. but it is worth a try isn't it.

ANother question, guest. Have you ever tried medication for depression? or coucelling at all?

Peace
Hazza

June 1, 2000
3:31 pm
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heartfelt
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guest -guest..confronting and changing your inner voice is a beginning to start to decinigrate the shame old shit....this voice suggests wer're bad, not worthy.etc...it, this voice seems so internalized we actually believe this is who we are. Take a look at challenging the voice by switching roles. What you hear from this voice, not who you are, by responding to the reality of who you know you are. Today, now, this moment. I've done alot of this inner child work as I mentioned before and I know it's not easy but guest-guest, you are doing a fantastic job. Truly not many who have the need will go to the depths in order to reclaim what was lost, ourselves. You're doing fine .....Honestly, for me I could leave this world today and be a happy man just knowing that I found much of what was lost long ago....trust me those are not just words.....never give up....never.

June 1, 2000
6:02 pm
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Brenda
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\guest, it is good you are voicing your feelings, very good. Your feeling show extreme lack of trust and even slight paranoia which is normal for a adult child who could not trust his own mother to love or give unconditionally, completely normal. It is good that you have recognized this complete lack of trust in people, and frankly, in yourself.
I admit, in my past, I "helped" and tried to advice and manipulate others into a behaviors that would help me live a happier life and in a way this did make me a martyr ( in comparison to them ) and boose my hurting self esteem, but I quit doing that for a while and came to a place where my own come began to get full, where I wanted to share with others my own hard found healing and joy, when I give in this way, I do not expect anything in return or have strings attached to it nor do i feel resentful if I dont get the same back. IT is different for me now, I pray and talk to others because I feel I have become a much clearer channel for healing and unconditional love. God bless
oh by the wya, yes the prayers are working....ive noticed...im sure others here have too. Even you Guest, are immune to the power of prayer and divine healing.

June 1, 2000
7:15 pm
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Guest-guest.

You said, "Well, maybe because for you ppl, giving advice will give boost for your egos. Maybe YOU'll feel better after giving the advice."

I had to smile. I'm sure there is an element of truth in that statement. But I think that we humans are more complex in our motivations than that.

I think that those of us that have known great pain often have the need to reach out to others in pain. We invent words like compassion, empathy, sympathy etc in our futile endeavours to communicate and share our common experiences. So in that sense, helping others does sometimes make us feel better. I guess that there is striving for a subtle 'return' in all that we do. I guess that Mother Theresa of Calcutta was seeking spiritual gratification of some kind. Who knows what it really is that, in our heart of hearts, we really seek.

I also think that some of us feel a deep seated sense of having no value or worth to either ourselves or others. This often drives us to bury this feeling under piles of exaggerated self-importance that you call the 'ego'. I have a very different understanding of that word 'ego'.

However, it is this inherent feeling of worthlessness in some of us that makes us doubt the genuineness of others. It seems that we humans, in this category, tend to believe that others truly feel about us, that which we feel about ourselves. Thus our doubting of the congruency between what someone says about us and what they might feel about us. I fall into this category of person; but I have learnt to see my 'biases' and from whence they come.

Anyway, Guest-guest, I don't give a shit what you say, matey;your all right... I reckon you are a great guy, and I like yuh,so cop that! P.S. I'm a totally committed heterosexual. šŸ™‚

June 1, 2000
10:27 pm
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guest_guest: It is very difficult to accept that which is foreign to you. If you are not used to having people care about YOU, and not about your looks, money, etc, then, yes, it is most difficult to accept that we are here for you, YOU. Ego drives us to feel less important as well. Its not just about feeling important, it also tells us we're not worthy of positive attention. "Your Sacred Self" is a great book about how ego works in our lives, and why it is important to divorce ourselves from letting it be the ruler. Its like the little voice inside your head telling that you can't do something you really have a heart's desire to do, or telling you that this person, or that person really doesn't like you. Then when we let loose and try to override ego, we find ourselves flat on our faces, then ego comes along and says, "Nanny, nanny boo boo, I told you (blah, blah, blah)" Once ego is taken under control, we can then begin to have control of our lives, in the higher self. Living by what we KNOW instead of what we think, feel or want.

Tez: Dry spell downunder? No mud puddles? At 58 you still have a lot of kid in you, at least I hope so, since I will be there, one of these years, at least I hope so.

Hazza: I'm with you, kid. If I must be labeled a co-dep, then I'll wear it proudly, if it means I care about people enough to reach out and hold their hand through rocky times. I say this world needs more of us!!! Okay, not extreme, but with enough traits as to bring back common courteousy. If you're ever on this side of the water, we'll have to fill up the whirlpool and you can take a dip. Bring your own bubbles, these are mine. (just KIDding). I'll save you some (hope they'll keep in a zip-lock)

Brenda: In the short amount of time I have been a visitor to this site, I can truly say you have grown. Your time to do so. How's things at home? You are giving so much of yourself, I'm just concerned about the homefront.

Heartfelt: Are you holding out also? Would love to hear about your innerchild's play. You have a very soft heart. Let's see, butterflies and rainbow sliding...

June 2, 2000
4:12 am
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Continued on the other thread part II (rehash !! .. šŸ˜› .. ..)

was getting too long to load ..

June 2, 2000
7:57 pm
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Spirit.
You asked "No mud puddles?"

I ride a thundering 1100 cc motor cycle that is a Japanese Harley Davidson, only very much faster. I ride in a bikers mob called "Ullysses" with patches and all.

I have only relatively recently given up competition power lifting in the master's class. I still work out.

I am presently an advanced dancer in the OTNV ballroom dancing circuit. I social dance 2 to 5 times a week. I allow my spirit to soar to the heavens in some of the very ethereal 32 step modern sequence waltzes.

I live on a property that has a dam, pet ducks and geese, and all manner of wild life. My lady partner is heavily into permaculture and I participate in these activities involving the generation of a sustainable ecology on our property.

I am the principal carer of my 90 year old demented father who quite often craps himself.

Are there enough mud puddles in that lot, do you think? But why do you ask?

June 3, 2000
10:00 am
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Tez: Come over to part two and read my response...

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