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From free: it's time to move- advice?
July 21, 2004
12:13 am
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free
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In a nutshell, there is more stuff going on.Same shit different day.

It's time to throw in the towel and just- move. Go home to my family.

Does anybody know what I need to do to legally to move out of state with my kids asap?

I'm thinking once I'm there, hire an attorney there.

free

July 21, 2004
12:24 am
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Zinnie
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Free....

I feel like I have totally let you down. I have had so much craziness with my own family, I keep forgetting to talk with my husband.

He is out of town right now, but I will catch him thise weekend.

Love,

Z..

July 21, 2004
12:41 am
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Z, I don't feel let down by you at all. Silly billy bee bop of a bear.

Before, I was testing waters, looking at possibilities.

Gotta be careful here about what I say. Gonna be where I wanna go in a few days, and I'm gonna see if I can land a position.

Thought I'd fish for ideas here first. Attorney's are expensive.

free

July 21, 2004
12:45 am
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Worried_Dad
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I like this question. May I phrase?

You are a victim of domestic violence. That violence is chronic and pervasive. Your batterer and stalker is using each and every opportunity to continue to intimidate and harrass you. Including by manipulating you through your concern for the safety of your children. Correct me if I'm mistaken.

It's not that I'm not enthusiastic about helping you get that Free, but this ain't gonna be easy. Maybe not even possible.

Please free, recount for us latest provocation that inspired you to throw up your hands.

Okay, in order to move, I think you need to be prepared to show necessity. One might be if you had out of state job offer.

Or, if you could show danger, maybe.
Yeah, maybe. You have to take the kids into account--they are little sentient life forms already. Wow what a tear jerker.

Deep breath for me Free. In...Then Out...

You are smart. Be smart.
You are courageous. Be courageous. Be wise. Think about it for a minute. Then amaze everybody.

July 21, 2004
1:54 am
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I don't think I wanna sweep you off your feet and run away with you anymore wd.

free

July 21, 2004
7:00 am
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Worried_Dad
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That reminds me....isn't there a guy in your life you would be leaving behind? What's his take on all this?

July 21, 2004
8:15 am
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Worried_Dad
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Hey waitaminute. After a night's sleep...

Free, am I right in understanding that you have legal and physical custody of your children? If so, there ain't no such thing as parental kidnapping for you, which might mean that you can esentially go where ever you like, no questions.

There is a service called prepaid legal--kind of a legal HMO. For $6.00 a month you get to have unlimited telephone consultaion with a lawyer, some other benefits, too. Check them out.

July 21, 2004
10:21 am
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Okay- here is what's happened.

We've booked a vacation to Mexico, but he refuses to give a letter of permission for our oldest to go. So I filed for a hearing and today we go to court.

found out he's filed to modify visitation again- his request will pretty much make it 50-50 custody. Visitation is already hard on my kids. the declaration twists things so bad- stating I use his probation officer to control visitation, that he stopped his trial and capitulated to the district attorney for our daughter's sake, that this will be a win-win for our kids because of all the conflict during visitation. It actually sounds GOOD to somebody who isn't in it, like me.

Understand: the conflict isn't two-way. He stalks.

I feel like I've done what I'm supposed to do in keeping his probation officer and the prosecutor up on current events. Doing that is being used to his advantage.

He has a new attorney. I can't fight an attorney. We have a new judge. He will bring witnesses and the attorney will question them and he just looks like he's the all caring dad trying to do his best.

I can't do this anymore. On the outside, I look like I have it all together. On the inside, I feel like I'm gonna go nutso- I'm gonna have a heart attack before I hit 50. I'm 40. I try not to let this bother me, but deep down, it just does.

Every summer for the past 5 years he files to modify visitation. Every year the kids and I start the school year off with legal crap pending. they miss school, I miss work. They worry. I worry. Visitation becomes even harder as he tries to brainwash them.

Every year. And it's not like it's over quickly.

I do have a man in my life. He doesn't blame me one bit for wanting to leave. He will probably stay for about a year and then come. I'm not gonna be any good to a relationship dead from a heart attack at 40.

Like I said, what this is doing to me inside is just- not good. I'm beyond weary. I'm exhausted. Spent. done. He has the legal right to stalk through the courts, and that's what he is gonna do, and he's married into money now, and there is no way I can compete with it. I'm a fish out of water in a courtroom.

My kids are adamantly opposed to this. My kids are exhausted by this. Two of my kids wanna go. One might stay, the oldest.

Whether she stays or not, if I move, there will be peace throughout the year. They could come out for 3 weeks in the summer, and one at Christmas.

free

July 21, 2004
11:13 am
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sixfootblonde
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*applauding*

I say, good for you. I say go go GO!
Having a support network around you will be wonderful, especially if he decides to follow you, which not to be a downer but he might. But yes, go. I support this idea 110%.

You are so strong free. I admire you.

July 21, 2004
11:29 am
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Worried_Dad
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Free,

Most states don't give legal or physical custody to batterers or stalkers.

My understanding of what he is entitled to is visitation time--he shouldn't have any authority to give or withold permission RE anything about your kids. By all means, try to get out of the state.

Also, the wishes of kids count--if visitation has been hard on them--get them to say so--document it. Take them to counseling or something.

Damn this guy is a pain.

July 21, 2004
7:59 pm
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Talked with my folks. Looks like I may plan this, and go in June. I'm goin though. Hell or high water.

wd, I took a deep breath, breathed in, breathed out, thought about things for today's court appearance. Your words rang loudly in my head. Thank you so much wd.

Amazed my fiance, myself, and I don't know who else. Definitely his attorney- who ended up ranting and raving and looking like an idiot- just like his client.

Somehow, I don't think I fit the image that this attorney had of me.

It felt so good. He was denying me the oprrotunity to take our oldest to Mexico, and refused to provide a notarized letter. Butthead didn't go- just his attorney. Tried to run circles around both me and the judge. Ended up with a court order giving me sole legal responsibility for her during this time for travel to Mexico. She's going. With me. Judge said so. Mexican consulate says if judge says so, then she goes.

then, this attorney served me with the modification to visitation. throws them on my lap in the hall. Short version here: got that moved back a week kuz that's the first week of school. Attorney tried to play hard ball and get nasty, stating he is trying to accomodate me by moving the hearing to the week before. WEll, the week before gives me only a few days after returning from vacation with my family to respond to this motion. Not nice. I stated this. I waited for him to pause for a breath and calmly and deliberately stated "How this can be considered an accomodation eludes me, I am not the one filing all these motions, this is the FIFTH request to modify visitation and you are the FIFTH attorney retained to do so, I have never filed any motion against your client and I explained to you previously that these two weeks would be a difficult time not just for me, but for our children. You are asking for the week before school starts or the first week of school, the most hectic time of the year for my children and myself. This request along with the umpteenth court case to be filed by your client is not accommodating to anybody other than your client" Dead silence in courtroom.

Attorney walking literally in circles and making these weird breathing-snorting noises.

Clerk and reporter obviously stifling laughter. Judge gazing at me with open mouth. This is a high dollar corporate attorney.

I broke it: "One week later would be acceptible to me", he starts in, judge says one week later it is.

Gosh, I wish i had a law degree.

I'm learning.

free

July 21, 2004
10:35 pm
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Hey Free,
I don't know anything about the laws regarding leaving a state for good with children. I will find out and I am so sorry you have to deal with this. I will see if there is anything I can find out for you, hang in there sweetie.
TMV

July 22, 2004
12:03 am
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Thanks tm.

I just have a place in my heart for you. thanks.

free

July 22, 2004
8:43 am
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cak
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Hi Free,
Wow! you have been thru it. It sounds as if you stood your ground. I did move 3 thousand miles away with a court order many year's ago. I had sole custody.
You brought back so many memories in you thread.
I don't know if today the laws would have let me. My ex blew it in court many yrs ago. Plus never paid any support so the judge was not happy.

The harrassment that your ex does is so classic. Sounds like he is a real pain in the A... However sounds like you have overcome him trying to make you unhappy in your "new" life without him.

What a survior!!!
Good Luck enjoy your vacation and I will put you in my prayers.

July 22, 2004
10:31 am
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thanks cak. It was scary and I was really nervous, but I think at some point ya start to get used to it.

Like SFB says (loved the applause) it would be wonderful to be around a support group and near my family. I'm gonna go.

That means I will have to face this attorney in a hearing to modify visitation. I'm on my own here. Not sure what to do. Appears there are papers I can file to request the judge interview my kids in her chambers. I'm gonna have a long talk with them and try to get them to understand that it is time for them to step up to the plate. They have to learn to speak their mind. Unfortunately, this does need to be filed with the court, so ex monster will know they are going to be interviewed and we all know what visitation will be like between then and the court hearing. I'm gonna make an appointment with my old therapist as well and get them in. Hey, he convinced me to stand up to the guy, no matter what the consequences.

Here is the motion he has filed: I'm just gonna type it verbatim. Note how great it sounds.

My dissolution from the petitioner was final in 1999. Since that time the parties have continued to struggle in their communication with one another over virtually every issue involving the children. Both partents love their children and are very involved with them. Unvortunately, my former wife and I are like oil and water. We simply do not get along with each other. It got to the point where a criminal proceeding was instituted as a result of a confrontation between the parties. I was the named defendant. I stopped the proceeding in mid-trial because by necessity my daughter was going to have to testify concerning the occurrences between the parties. This was too much for me and I capitulated to the District Attorney in that matter. However, the trial and tribulations have continued up to the point of filing this motion. My atttorney suggested a solution that would minimize any contact between the parties. I am so weary of revisiting "all the issues" every time there is a need for flexibility or adjustment of parenting time for the sake of the children, that I believe my attorney's suggested solution is a good one. He sent a letter to my former wife and a copy of the letter to my probation officer, who is also, I'm quite sure, tired of being a mediator. The proposed solution is this: Every time that Friday visitatin rolls around tpetitioner has different times when she makes the children available for visitation. I propose that I pick up the children directly from their school. Hence there would be no control issues between the parties and no confrontations. Similarly, rather than having contact of some kind, and there always is, I would propose that I drop off the children at their school on Monday mornings. This serves several purposes. First, it eliminates any possible further complaint to my probation officer, who has been quite kind and understanding. However, petitioner has used my probation status to control the visitaion circumstances. Second, instead of bringing the children home on Sunday evening and readjusting from one home to another, I suggest keeping the children overnight and bringing them to school on Monday. This eliminates the ugly interrogations and questioning that occurs following a visitaation and also keeps the parties from potentially negative interaction. Third, many of our problems revolve around control issues. This takes away all control from the parties. School gets out at a set hour on Fridays and convenes at a set hour on Mondays. Neither party can manipulate that schedule and push buttons with the other party. I believe this to be a win/win for the children.

End of declaration.

Talk about twisting things around!

1) There was not just a "confrontation". He was tried on felony stalking and two counts felony intimidation of a witness.
2) A plea was offered before the trial at MY request, and denied by him against his attorney's wishes, and he stated "I don't care if my daughter testifies or not" to the prosecutor.
3) He did not stop the trial. I did. I took my daughter's journal which was talking of suicide to the prosecutor and begged her to do something. Monster had gotten caught lying to his attorney on key points, including opening arguments, and this was presented to the jury. A witness was found and was gonna testify as well. He had to take the plea at this point or go to prison.
4) He's weary? this is the 5th request to modify visitation. I never filed a motion with the court.
5)I always have the kids ready when the taxi comes. A taxi. There is no confrontation and there is no contact. If there was, I'd call the police and have arrested for violating the restraining order.
6)He can't drop the kids off at school. For one, we tried that: his work schedule has him dropping them off an hour early and picking them up an hour and a half after school. The kids are the ones who said screw this, we're going home, and did. That's how the taxi thing started. Secondly, he can't come to the school where I teach and our oldest is coming there. I have a ten year restraining order prohibiting to come to my work.
7) I never interrogate my kids. Why would I do that? I help them deal with negative aspects of visitation. Whatever they say, I respond to, and offer solutions. But there is usually little discussion, just fixing dinner, talk about how the weekend went- I don't get this.
8) School does not get out and convene at set hours. WE ran into this before. There are minimum days, staff development days, holidays. My schedule as a teacher matches theirs. I pick them up from the bus stop and the youngest from his school. I will be taking the oldest with me to school and bringing her home.
9) I push buttons? jeepers, I do all I can to make things go smoothly, not for monster's sake, but for our kids.
10) Last year the judge pushed back visitation from Monday morning to Sunday night kuz the kids were not prepared for school and completing homework.
11) The kids are adamantly opposed. They don't want more time at their father's. They want to be able to come home. This is their home base.

12) There is no love lost between monster and the probation officer. She's threatening to pull him up on a violation of probation charge. She does not mediate. I have spoken with her maybe four times since his trial last December. I keep them informed of big things. Not paying child support, moving down the street from my school, ripping up my daughter's report kuz she accidently got a virus on his computer, refusing to provide medical and dental insurance to me, pocketing therapy re-imbursement from the insurance company and sticking me with the bill, having his mother call me, speaking to the police in front of my kids. I don't just complain. I keep them informed. I'm supposed to. I'm doing what I'm supposed to do, and have been encouraged to do so.

well, I gotta get ready for work.

now ain't this just a novel!

Now, how the heck do I say all that in a reader's digest version?

free

July 22, 2004
10:57 am
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cak
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Free you go girl!!!!!
Reader's Digest??? Maybe Law review?
He is such a jerk. I do so well remember.
Yrs and do mean yrs ago. I paid for the visitation and sent the kids back started a new job as a Branch manager for a well know co. Was suppose to be in Boston under contract with this company. While they were visiting I would be there in training. Thought it was safe to,since we had been divorce for years most of this was old news. Right?

Wrong, I get a call the morning I suppose to be on the plane that my ex planned to take the kids and run. He had told my son to lie to CPS. Etc. all of it. I had to fly to were they were ASAP. GoT sued from the Company because I had to take two weeks getting this mess straighten out. When I went to court had an attorney that told me I could do it on my own. Had no Ideal what I was walking into. He wrote the judge a letter that I never saw. The Judge took all visitation away from him unless he was supervise and told me that after he read the letter from my ex. he had issues. It was all so crazy then. Even though its
yrs later he is still the same person.
However my life did get better.
He is still the same person with his lies. However the kids are raise and I no longer have to deal with it. But he still trys to piss me off. I can walk away now. Even though I vent about it.
Good Luck to you Free you are a awesome loving Mom your kids will benefit from it all. I do admire your
wit and humor about this.
God Bless.

July 22, 2004
7:22 pm
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Gosh, cak, what an aweful experience. I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

I used to get so upset and I'd cry and beat myself up, but ya know- an this is weird. This time, it's like "well, here we go again, now ain't that just a surprise"

boom-boom-boom: he's like the energizer bunny.

Day after tomorrow, I'm gonna be home. Home. Such a wonderful place to be. Nobody in my family does stuff like this. Nobody. It's just considered so NO class.

I've stayed here kuz I thought it was the best thing to do. It's not.

the annual summer legal chaos has begun!

free

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