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friends or users? assertiveness issue
October 24, 2005
9:16 pm
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Anonymous
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girlOne friend, much younger than I, always came to me when she didnt have a date. To her I was like "family". I didnt get her straight because Im kind a blond. Just realized I still need to do that.

The other, much older than me, used me as sounding board for her legal matters of divorce. I got her off my hair by leaving her sheets and umbrella with the neighbor for her to pick up. Still need to stsraighten that out too. If she ever calls.

Whats your huntch. I need to improve on my assertiveness. Just getting these two off my hair was a great deal for me.

October 25, 2005
12:32 am
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on my way
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Friendships are important, and I suppose they mean differnt things to different people. You sound kind hearted to help these people, but they do not sound like friends, or at least the kind that stick around. Might be interesting to explore further "what exactly is a friend".

October 25, 2005
12:37 am
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Neshema
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Sinin-

Almost everyone uses everyone in this country. It is a byproduct of the "me generation." I am sick of it. That is why you come here. THere are a few caring people. I plan to deal with this myself by volunteering more. I am going to volunteer for organizations, such as the women's shelter and other things. I think that might be a place to meet other volunteers...people who know it is important to stop and listen to others, to give and take. This forum is a great thing, being anonymous, but sadly, in its anonymity, we cannot find each other in real life. It is the way it must be, but too bad. I would be honored to be your friend and be there for you, hunny. OMW, you too. Come into the night crew, I need you, dearie.

October 25, 2005
12:50 am
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I believed in compartmentalized friendship, OMW, and I guess I don't anymore. I friends for sports or sports for friends. I was younger.

Now Im 46. I dont have to handle this anymore. Since Im self employed I dont even need friends at work, as a rule. I dont need people with spiels and nowdesperateneedyou nowIdont. People who have to have a say on everything including if its my friendship. That was an insight... Gee, is that being codependent or what?

How do you nicely dump people like them and stop falling for it?

October 25, 2005
2:32 am
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movedon
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Hi! I have a friend that's e-mail only. That stinks. There are many types of people in the world. Some times we attract the wrong type and sometimes we can't say no for certain reasons, but we need to move on anyway if we are to find real friends.

Good Luck!

October 25, 2005
5:29 pm
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Neshema, you touched on an issue close to my heart which is volunteering. I heard that I need to be financially better off to do this but Im only postponing it because Im afraid of the commitment and how, where, etc.

tks, moved on, nice to meet you. tks for sharing. I think I wait too long to say no. It starts with small things which are usually easier to handle. Im just giving myself a hard time for nothing. And yes we do attract, no magic waves, just a word, a comment. Like never mind, never mind, boom, how did I get here, boom:)

October 25, 2005
5:47 pm
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eve
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I think it needs to be some kind of give and take. I find it difficult, if I want to find friends (and I'm 40 now, not young and in a crowd, like at school, university or suchlike where it is easy to meet people and find friends). I think that being active and search out the people I want contact with works better than to wait for others to search us out. You tend to get stuck with types like the two you just dumped.

For me it is difficult and and needs to be a conscious effort to keep contact to the "keepers" and to maintain a healthy distance to the "users". I'm not very good at finding friends, or keeping them, but I try to learn.

October 25, 2005
6:28 pm
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HI, Eve, nice to meet you. I wanted to lament on these two friends but find it useless. Your reaching out approach is very nice. Someone said here that one should go to the right places, because there you'll find the right people doing the right thing, isn't that nice? You're doing it.

I have a way to go. Partially personality, partially depression, whathaveyou... No problem with good friendship, tehy're gold just out of reach a bit. But the selective friends... get me tested on my lack of confrontational weaponry. The first girl told me I was family to her just when I was thinking of calline her on a few things. The other one asked to go live with her after she moved. I thought I'd be passing by in her life when she needed soemone to accompany her to plastic surgery and her girlfriend couldlnt make it.

So now they haven't called because they were surprised by me. Just dont blast my heart doors open every time they call.

October 25, 2005
6:28 pm
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Neshema
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My advice, Sinin, is cut people some slack. Not all people can be all things at all times. I didn't realize that was the issue here, and as you pointed out in another post, we are not just here to enable each other. As for volunteering, even poor people find it in them to give. Maybe you get what you give.

October 25, 2005
8:02 pm
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on my way
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Well, back to the Golden Rule...treat others as you want to be treated. However if there are those who do not respect this, then guess they could not be a friend. I think people are all about relationships anyway. A time and a reason and a season for everything.

October 26, 2005
7:09 pm
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OMW, I like your approach. Why is it so hard for me? I am woman.

Hence the problem. Look at history: women learn to be more docile than men, to be indirect and to treat others better than they would treat themselves. Hence the problem. I have no children but I saw this playing with and babysitting children in more than one country and language.

The last time, about two years ago I was with this foreign family playing monopoly. The boy incited me to play because it was my turn and I rushed. He laughed..., he said I didn't realize he was on my property and should have paid taxes; having played my turn it was too late. Then, on another turn, I had to pay a fine but had run out of money. So, I was going to sell my property to pay the fine when the little girl said to me sweetly, with her arm stretched out to me, "dont sell it, I'll give you money."I had to calm her down and tell her that I would buy the property back when I made more money.

I still agree with you OMW.I'd love to be more even on that.

October 27, 2005
10:56 am
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Now someone could say I left the door open so its up to me. Ok, but if I leave my agenda closed on the desk, a friend isnt supposed to open it, is s/he? Its becoming critical that I do have to get a life. That way there's less time for, less chance of feeling used. You fit everybody into and around your life. With that said, how about when s*** happens?

For example, the younger friend was waiting for me in front of my house. A guy passes in a car and on the 2nd time got into the car and off she went. Im glad she didnt come back to my house in the weee hours of the night. She went back to the dormitory of her congregation!! I believe she didnt sleep with the guy as she said but someone told me Im being naive. Guys, she's a religious sister in a congregation, she kind of sees me as a reference and I cant deal with this. She says that if you go out with a guy more than twice, you have to sleep with him.Now being warm blooded Latin you cant help it, is that it? I am a fish, then.

The other girlfriend is walking with me towards her car in front of my house. She says "lets go to a restaurant where theres lots of men". Ok, so she's H***y cant she be discrete? I said "yeah, theres one where the guys who deliver gas tanks (for cooking) go - they must eat well." I felt even more embarrassed by what she said and even more so when a neighbor passed by and overheard. Now her story is that her husband of 40 years moved in with another religious sister and got married while her before the divorce litigation is finalized.

To me these people are looking to me to see if I cave in too in my standards. Thats something I admire in more developed societies. You dont have to have sex with someone as by these ladies' standards. Gosh, women have already burned their bras in the 60's and its so that we are liberated enough to do what we want. I dont think scarcity of men is a valid excuse. If so, look up statistics in different places and move over.

Oof, tell me that I can coexist with these women because they are "everywhere"!!

October 28, 2005
2:28 pm
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Just got a call from the older friend to see "how I'm doing". Fine. Working. Glad youre ok. Im just unloading and discomplicaitng my life, I said. She says: Me too. Maybe I manage to be assertive by Nov/Dec when she comes to my town for divorce hearings. I hope she doesn't ask to stay here. Will see.

October 29, 2005
7:54 am
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I just read the thread on double binding from Garfield. How nice. It explains about ICDBIM - I cant do but I must and the traps it sets up for our communication and relationships.

Like I can't but I must help these friends. Heck, do I? (rethoric question. I mean, when, how do I draw the line.

October 29, 2005
8:35 am
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eve
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Nah, you don't have to help these friends, you propably can't. They are grown women, it is basically their own decision how they live, and if they make a fool of themselfs, if they allow men to use them, or if they live a wonderful and good life.

Can you let go and let them do as they choose to do, and still be their friend? I think that is the main question: can you get it in your head that you don't have to fix them, just take them as they are - and if they are who they are, are you ok when you meet them or is what they do beyond your boundaries of how you'd like a friend to behave.

It is not your responsibility to fix these friends, but it is your responsibility to find out what kind of friend you need, and stick to what you want from a friend, and how you react when the treat you badly.

October 29, 2005
12:58 pm
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Tks, Eve. My dad's second wive told the older friend she didn't want to see her in the ranch when the woman went there in the third time. The woman asked her to go live with her in another state. I took the woman there meaning well my "big sister" (as I call my deceased dad's wife) freed me of any guilt. I just couldn't speak up like that but knowing my style the woman phoned here a few days back to see how I was. I told her I was reclusive and taking care of myself and lots of things. She's very angry and after she left I found my cheap ironing board broken up front. It was weak but sure not broken and she used it last. I also asked that she leave no water in the iron because of sediments in the water and she did leave. I didnt confront her on that.

With the younger, there are other issues. She keeps testing my friendship or family relation as she put it by observing her preferences: Don't fill my glass, I prefer to serve myself twice (or be served) if needed. I want to use the blender to mix my chocolate milk.

And picky me gets angry at how badly they wash my stuff. I didnt confront her either.

Mainly venting, feels good, tks. Still working on dealing with anger not the emotion (anger) as so nnicely put by the 'Dictator' in my post Anger - Self defeating or not. tks

October 29, 2005
2:47 pm
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correction: dealing with the anger feeling not the emotion angry.

October 29, 2005
3:52 pm
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Actually ealing with both.

November 1, 2005
3:27 pm
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The younger friend called and I let my cell phone ring.

Just don't wanna get involved in the spider webs I'm usually too fool to keep out of. This is worse because this friend is friends with part of my family. So I tend to keep being sweet until I say (in my mind) that's it, no more, and just avoid the person.

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