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For those of you who are dealing with an alcoholic or addict.
June 10, 2009
12:31 pm
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atalose
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Have you looked into al-anon or nar-anon for yourself? Both deal with the effects addiction has on loved ones.

Opiate addiction is so hard to overcome, I’m sure they will recommend he stay another 30 days or move into a half way house which would be in everyone’s best interest right now.

If he’s finding working a program to be too difficult then he’s most likely not going to want to stay longer which in the long run will lead him right back to his old ways.
Maybe now is the time for you and your husband to truly set YOUR boundaries with him. If he chooses NOT to listen to the experts and do it his way then maybe he needs to find another place to live. Keep reminding yourself that your son’s best idea was to take drugs. That doing it his way has been to take drugs. Starting today it should be YOUR way, period. No you can’t control him or his drug use but you are very capable of controlling who and what goes on in your own home that affects your mental and physical health.

It would be great if you and your husband could be on the same page with setting boundaries and even if your husband does not want to attend a group meeting of sorts that doesn’t mean you can’t or your sister in law can’t.

Keep posting and venting……..

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

June 10, 2009
8:15 pm
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haythere
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atalose

thanks for the response, its great to have a way to get stuff off my chest.

Yes, I'm looking at the schedule of meetings for alanon, haven't checked the narcanon web-site.
I'm feeling a bit depressed and having a tough time mustering the energy to go to a meeting like that, I find it intimidating to be honest.

My son is working the program, but is really having a hard time facing his past, he's done some stuff he is really ashamed of. But the reports I get, is that he working hard and taking it all very seriously.

It was interesting, my son invited me to a family group session at his rehab facility, more so I would bring him extra clothes and take him out to lunch, than for the session itself. But I wanted to see him in this new enviorment. During the session someone mentioned alanon and said how they wished there parents would take an hour out of their week and go to an alanon meeting.....interesting that they, as the addict, saw the benefit to the family members getting that kind of help.

My husband and I are generally on the same page, but have trouble sticking to the plan. We see success and cooperation and we back off some, because its easier. (I know, I know, thats makes us part of the problem) We both have demanding jobs and he tends to shut down when he gets home, I am the one doing the talking and fixing the dinner and finding out where everyone is.
We've already discussed what some of the boundaries need to be when he comes home, if he comes home. But have not had an opportunity to present these to him yet. I think a sober living facility would be a good transition as well. I also realize we can limit his choices since we control the purse strings.....the difficulty being, if he doesn't want it, I don't know how much good it will do.

So, my next step will be trying a meeting on for size and getting my husband to go with me so we can start figuring out how to stick to the boundaries and continue to do so. I (we) have habits of our own that need to broken.

June 11, 2009
12:10 pm
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atalose
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Can I ask how old your son is?

I’m quite sure rehab is going to suggest a sober living facility as the next step; you can always inquire with his counselors. The last thing you need is a newly sober person manipulating and controlling things. Unfortunately those habits take longer to curtain then getting physically sober. Since you do control the purse strings, you can also have that as one of your boundaries, either he goes to a sober living house and you help financially with that or he find a place to live on his own, with you shutting down the back, coming home is not an option right now.

I have found that when a recovery program is worked to it’s fullest by the addict surrendering to their addiction and listening to the professionals helping them, recovery was long lasting.

Those who don’t surrender to the addiction and continue to control things like NOT following a plan of recovery life is filled with constant relapses.

When you give al-anon a chance give yourself a chance to understand the program and how it works. Allow yourself several meetings before deciding if it’s for you or not. When I first began I didn’t know what to expect but had expectations of my own that for sure that first meeting did not live up to. I’ve since learned that my expectations were never going to be met at an al-anon meeting or any other meeting because I really wasn’t looking for help for myself instead I was still trying to control the addict in my life and thought I’d receive that miracle at al-anon.

They say to give it at 6 meetings and boy am I grateful I stayed and learned and grew.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

June 11, 2009
8:08 pm
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haythere
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He is 20 and started smoking pot when he was 11.

He claims that if he stays in the area immediately after he gets out of rehab, he will start using again, this is a likely scenario, esp. if he was to come home. He wants to travel, find himself, I've told him that I think he needs structure. He, of course disagrees.....but would have to go thru us to get the money. I'm looking at sober living facilities, but the program he is in won't recommend him to their facility unless he completes 60 days, not 30. I haven't delved into it too much, but I'm sure they can help me place him somewhere if he chooses to stay only 30 days. At this point I can't imagine him at home after only 30 days.

Its the typical scenario, the kid is always better for someone else than the parent. The person I see (with our dysfunctional relationship) is not the same guy they tell me about applying himself in group and working the 12 steps.

He probably does need to find himself, away from us. Our daugther is older, and couldn't be of different character.....(she is ready to go have it out with him). She has spent alot of time traveling, growing up, finding herself....I'm sure this is what he is thinking, however she had the money to pay for most of her travels. He would have, if hadn't spent it all on drugs.

I will give the al-anon meetings a chance, and not back away after the first one if my expectaions aren't immediately fulfilled. I'm my husband or daughter will go too.

thank you for your time and advice, its helping me get some perspective, and giving me courage to try & do the hard things I haven't been able to in the past

June 12, 2009
9:46 am
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Wow, haythere, tread carefully. His claim that if he stays in the area, he'll start using again so he needs to travel is so manipulative. And since he doesn't have money, it will probably turn into you footing the bill. Addicts have a hard time dealing with real life so travel seems like a good escape. I'm saying all this because I have generations of addicts in my family.

I'm so glad you're going to Al-Anon. I wish you support on your way. Taking care of yourself is the most important thing.

June 12, 2009
10:46 am
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atalose
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I would think that if your son decides to leave the 60 day program after only 30 days that rewarding him for that by footing the bill for his travels to find himself would be extremely counter productive for all of you.

He may be appearing to be better for them in rehab but he’s an addict and that’s what addicts do, manipulate, get by and get over on many people.

I think towards the end of his 30 days you will see what direction he truly plans on going. Most addicts I know who are true about getting and remaining clean would use every means and way possible to battle the addiction.

Haythere, that’s all you can do, try things you haven’t done before because doing the same thing gets us the same results.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

June 12, 2009
4:55 pm
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Haythere

Your excuses for not going to al-anon just made my heart hurt because they sounded like all of mine. My biggest issue was always waiting around for my husband but you know what? I am my own person and have found through counseling that I am a huge codependent woman. Since I found that out I have been able to live my own life and not ride the roller coaster with my alcoholic husband. I have found my strength and peace through Jesus and have begun a local church program called Celebrate Recovery. It is different than Al-Anon because in al-anon you look to your higher power but in Celebrate Recovery you are acknowledging that God is the higher power and use the Bible as your guide. This is NOT religion as outlined in the guidelines we can't talk about. This is where you can find an alternative support group if al-anon does not work for you.

Your son may never heal the way that you want him to but YOU can heal. Someone mentioned boundaries and that's another thing I realized I did not have about myself. There is an exceptional book about boundaries titled "Boundaries" (go figure) by Dr. Henry Cloud and John Townsend which I found at my local library. I just finished reading it and am still kind of shocked that I had no boundaries to speak of. My husband was using me right and left and I was just going along.

Things will get better when you start thinking about yourself more than your son or your husband. In this I can PROMISE!!!

June 12, 2009
6:29 pm
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haythere
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atalose, Lanigirl, Xerxes

Thank you. It's so helpful to get perspective from people who have been there, done that. We've gone thru so much with our son, you'd think we'd be experts by now.....but far from it.
He told me a couple of weeks before he went to rehab that he didn't know who he was, just really lost, he had been using, abusing and everything that goes with it for so long that he didn't remember who he used to be. It broke my heart, but also gave me hope that he might be getting to close to being ready to change.
As to funding travel, I think the only travel we might fund would be to a sober living facility. And I also know, if he doesn't get his way, he will threaten to do something stupid.....to manipulate us, but when we don't budge he won't have any other options but what is offered. (So the key is to not budge)
He signed himself in for 30 days, its obvious to everyone but him (at this point) that he will most likely need more time. It was huge that he agreed to go with no fight.....so hopefully he will recognize the benefit to staying longer.
Yes, I need to heal, thats why I'm talking to all of you (this is something new for me, telling people I don't know about these painful things). To put myself first, that will be just as hard as learning to not let my son manipulate me, but I can work on that.

June 12, 2009
9:36 pm
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haythere
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hello new friends

I'm at a loss. My son just called me. Why is it almost every calls leaves me so bereft?
The problem is, he is so all over the place, emotionally, what he wants to do, leave the country, return to school for the next term, wanting to know who of us will be coming to visit Saturday, to telling me to f off, that I don't understand what he is going thru........

I have no idea what he going thru, but I how long does this phase last. I only know what I'm going thru and how do I support his recovery if I'm feeling fragile? I'm not going to fall apart, but certainly feeling vulnerable.....is this part of the manipulation, or is this part of his recovery process? They told us that he would be all over the place emotionally and he is,

If he stays for the 30 days, only 16 days are left, that disturbs me deeply as well....

sorry if I'm being too needy, but this is tough

June 12, 2009
11:25 pm
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atalose
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No you are not being needy at all, please, come here as often as you need to.

Unfortunately he may be all over the place for a while. Alls he’s known for a long time is to calm those emotions with drugs, now there are no drugs and he’s kind of running scared. That’s why al-anon would be such a benefit to you right now. Much like he is there working this 24/7 you may have to build a meeting into your daily routine for a pit as well. Those meetings will help you deal with those phone calls a little better.

Boundaries, next time he begins to raise his voice to you on the phone calmly tell him that you will not tolerate listening to that and you will hang up. If he precedes HANG UP. Would you allow am 11 year old to tell you to F off? His maturity level may be that of an 11 year old if that is the age he began his drug use. Re-setting boundaries and not allowing him to be in charge is the key.

You will always support his recovery and I’m sure he knows that, so if you are feeling fragile then allow your husband to talk with him and say you are not at home. If you don’t feel up to the visit on Saturday that is OK too, you don’t have to be present in order to support his recovery. He may want you present to manipulate his recovery.

Keep remembering he is not the only one in recovery right now, you, your husband and daughter all are as well. Addicts are selfish, self centered and think only of themselves and what they can get from those around them.

You deserve to do what is best for you each and every moment of every day.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

June 14, 2009
11:51 am
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haythere
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atalose
thanks for reminding me to take care of myself, I'm still learning to try and put my feelings first, boundaries are more challenging, but I thnk will become easier as I care about myself more.

My daughter and I went to the family group session yesterday, I knew she was going somewhat reluctantly, but she loves her brother (still wants to kick his you know what). She was really grateful that she went and was moved by the family group session. Our interaction with my son was very positive as well. My husband, has resisted going, I think he is still very angry (rightfully so), but my daughter told him that he should go. She & he are very much the same personality wise so when she shared her impressions of the session, he was more open.

As I said before, we are all handling this in own ways. But now my daughter is going to go to the alanon meetings too...she is getting the fact that we are all in recovery now.

June 14, 2009
12:53 pm
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Haythere
My son is also an addict...he is 29 and I believe his addiction began age 17. I have been in denial until quite recently, when I could no longer look the other way. Three years ago he wrote me a very hurtful email blaming me for everything that went wrong in his life. He admitted to being a very heavy drinker and pot smoker since age 17. Later he said he didn't do any of that anymore... he was clean and led a healthy life. I believed him because he was less painful to do so. He spent most of the past 6 years living in LA and New York trying to become a professional musician. His father and I (we are divorced) have funded his lifestyle between us since he was at university. Last money I gave him $5000 and last week he manipulated another $500 out of me whenn he came to stay with me. The constant runny nose and the verbal abuse, the lack of money got to me this time. I'd had enough of being used. His father came and picked him up and he's now living with him and his partner. He is not in any rehab programme because he still won't admit to a problem and his father is still in denial. However, I woke up. Painful as it is, I have to face up to this alone. My son is an addict and over the years I have been sucked dry financially. He doesn't care how his mother is going to survive on her own, virtually broke and currently unemployed. It's hard to swallow but I am determined to heal and to recover from my codependency.

June 14, 2009
1:01 pm
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It is hard not to have contact with your son but at the same time they are highly manipulative and it is important to see through that. This week I have had only written contact with my son... the occasional text message and email. If I talk to him on the phone, I may weaken so I won't do that at this moment. I know that if he calls to say his father has kicked him out I will find it hard to refuse him. But I will have to find the strength to refuse. I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it. It's one day at a time right now. That's all I can cope with. I have to use all my energy trying to find work and in this current climate for a woman my age, it's not easy.

I am heartbroken that the life of this lovely young man is so broken and wasted. It could have been so wonderful. But the 'what ifs' are of no use now... it is what it is.

I feel your pain.

June 14, 2009
2:31 pm
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atalose
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haythere………glad you and your daughter had a positive visit with your son. And I am glad she is going to alanon as well. It’s ok if your husband didn’t want to attend the family session, he’s just not ready. And it’s ok if he doesn’t attend alanon either; the important thing is you are doing what is best for you right now. My mother and I went to alanon when my functioning alcoholic father retired from his job and became a rather dysfunctional alcoholic. She attended two meetings and when she realized they were not going to give her a magic pill or solution to get him to stop drinking, she decided it was not for her. I kept attending and learning and by changing my own reactions to “his” situations she began to understand some things as well.

I haven’t been to an alanon meeting in a while and went to my home group the other night and I always find something to take with me. It was discussed that two weak people (an addict and an enable/codependent) can’t help each other, they are both to weak and will only continue to fall down. But when one of those people becomes stronger then there is a chance.

Honeyrose………I’m sure not only have you been drained financially by your son but emotional as well. Sounds like you are becoming stronger for yourself, never mind about his father and his fathers denial, not your problem anymore……….keep to what you know is best all around, stick to those boundaries and for sure reach out when you think you might slip……..

No it’s never easy when our loved ones are addicted but we don’t have to be alone with our problems which are all so similar when loving an addict.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

June 14, 2009
5:38 pm
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haythere
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Honeyrose
I certainly know how you feel and I know that my son would've never stopped taking from us until he took every last dollar and every last bit of joy from our lives. I understand the pain you feel by limiting the contact with your son.

But I'm learning we have to live our lives too. Something that was said in the first family group session I went to, addicts are like sinking ships and far too often parent won't let go and go right down with them. It sounds to me, that you are saving yourself from that sinking ship. Good for you! Please don't think its cold of me to say that, I think that is part of the recovery process for us as co-dependents and loved ones of addicts.

When you talk about the heartbreak of the broken and wasted life of your son, I can relate, my son is missing a "normal life" as well. All I ever wanted for my kids was a healthy, happy, productive life...... 🙁

For me, I find a good deal of comfort in the Serenity prayer and seriously have not been able to say it without choking up, it has so much meaning for me right now....

This thread and the comments (atalose, lanigirl, xerxes, thank you) they have offered have helped so much, I hope you find support & strength here as well.

June 15, 2009
4:49 am
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Thank you so much for your words of support. It really means a lot to me. I am glad I found this...

I hope that one day my son will find it within himself to want to tackle his addiction, before it's too late.
But I have to leave it up to him. I have learned that I cannot control the addict.

By focussing on my own recovery and financial stability I realise that I will be helping him too. As you rightly say, they are like sinking ships. Sad but true. Denial is an incredible human mechanism. When I think of all the signs I had... the life choices he made and the 'temporary' homes, always being kicked out and feeling sorry for himself. All the excuses for not finding work... all the time spent getting wasted and high.

A good friend told me that waking up from denial is like this:
"It's like the death of someone you wish he was. You've dressed that person up for so long now in different clothes that it's so hard to let go of that. You want him to become that picture of what he could be". It is very important to see the real person as he is today and not the cute little curly haired boy he once was. I have put all photographs in a drawer as I can't bear looking at him as a little cherub anymore. He isn't that person. He is an addict who has used and abused his mother.

June 16, 2009
11:33 am
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haythere
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honeyrose

my son has used and abused me for years, let me correct that, I have allowed him to use and abuse me for years. atalose has said I need to set boundaries and that is incredibly hard for me to do since I am so co-dependent.

There was no sicker feeling, than handing my son money for some purpose I wanted to believe was legit, but that voice in the back of my head saying stupid, stupid, stupid, it's b.s. he's going to buy drugs.

However, now that I have acknowledged my problem and have some support I can start putting those boundaries up and stick with them. I'm definitely a novice, but know how important it is, now, esp. with my son in rehab. We have a chance for him to get better, but that chance will diminish substantially if we go back to the way we were. Atalose says that the old ways didn't work (obviously) so now we do something different.

I feel everything that you feel, hang in there. Help yourself for yourself though.

June 16, 2009
12:19 pm
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atalose
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I do believe it was Bitsy in one of her threads on here that said:

THAT RECOVERY IS BEING ASKED TO GIVE UP EVERYTHING WE'VE KNOW TO GET SOMETHING BETTER WE DON’T YET UNDERSTAND.

That just about says it all for each and every one of us who want a happier and more peaceful life.

We need to think, speak and behave differently because up until now the way we have handled certain situations in life are just not working.

Getting to know that little voice in the back of our heads, listening to our gut instinct and accepting what it is attempting to tell us is a good starting place.

I think for me, often I didn’t listen to that little voice because if I did listen then maybe that river of denial I was floating down would dry up, then what would I do??????

It all starts with just the small things, thinking in a new light instead of the darkness from the clouds of addiction.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

June 16, 2009
4:18 pm
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Have you all heard the old saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting change. One of the first things I learned at Al-Anon over 10 years ago was that in order to change the dance, someone has to change the dance steps. I thought those two sayings were so profound and they were so comforting.

My husband is my addict but I have my two step-sons who have elected to go the way of drugs and alcohol and unbelievabley their mother does all this crap with them. It breaks my heart. I met them when they were 5 and 7 and like you said, the cutest little cherubs. Thank God there is always HOPE. Hope with boundaries. Atalose I was so excited to read your advice to hang up on the boy when he started being abusive. No one has a right to talk to us in the negative.

June 16, 2009
6:06 pm
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haythere
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Change, thats what we all want from our addicts. But why would they change unless we changed the way we interact with them? I'm finally getting that.

And no one changes, unless they really want to. I've always applied that to the addict, because in the past I thought I was doing o.k., more or less, except when that little voice was screaming in my head.

When Xerxes mentioned the mom of her step-sons doing drugs with them, I thought to myself I just don't get the parent that does that, its really crazy. But then I reflected on the some of the things I've allowed my son to do and weasel out of me and its really not much different, I was just denying the reality of the situation and looking to avoid conflict.

Wow, thats pretty ugly to admit to, but true.

So the insanity of it all is more than just a quote.

I'm pretty sure I've hit my bottom and there is nowhere to go but up, gotta keep moving forward....and learning to set and keep the boundaries.

June 17, 2009
12:35 pm
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Xerxes
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Haythere - you have changed so much since your first thread! I went to my Celebrate Recovery last night and was finally able to stay and attend a small group. Oh what comfort to hear how we are all learning to live life a new way. One of the big points was the danger of going back because it's a comfort zone. I think it helps to hear other people's stories so maybe we can avoid going backwards. I wish my husband was more on the band wagon but then I think maybe I don't really want him by my side as much as I think I do. Prince Charming is a cute notion but so unrealistic.

June 17, 2009
12:55 pm
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haythere
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Went to my first alanon meeting last night, I had this vision it would be something intense, like the family group sessions I've been to at my son's rehab. Not so, at least not last night, the regulars where more about how they use what they learned at the meetings and apply to all areas of their lives. Actually very calming. One person showed me in the schedule the meetings that are for "parent focus" which I will definitely be giving a try. They too recommended going to 6 meetings before making a decision.....but I've already made the decision to stick with it. I asked my husband to go, he declined and thats o.k..

I've learned from this thread that all the stuff we did before didn't work, and repeating it will do me, my son, our family absolutely no good. So, while change is hard to do and stick with, its better to get on with it. And yes, once things "seem" better it will be hard to not go backwards and "relapse" into our old ways. But I'm really done and I want a life for myself, instead of living for everyone else.

June 17, 2009
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atalose
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That’s great you enjoyed the meeting and are willing to give it a try. I started a new thread and titled it “The al-anon/nar-anon thread…..please join in, we are all in this together.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

June 17, 2009
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Xerxes
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I'm new here and don't want to get kicked off but am unsure of the rules - can we give web addresses to helpful sites? that would be like a reference but not an email address - right?

June 17, 2009
1:56 pm
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atalose
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sure, we can share web addresses.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

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