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for every time my heart sinks
January 15, 2002
2:20 pm
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cloud
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i will cut

1,2,3,4,5,6

January 15, 2002
3:12 pm
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gingerleigh
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Cloud, I don't want to sound unsympathetic, but honestly, what are you hoping that people will come back with? Pity? Anger? Hostility? Freak out? Tell you that you are still wanted in the world? Tell you to go ahead and cut, who cares?

What would you respond to someone who had just posted that?

January 15, 2002
3:40 pm
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Molly
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I started to post last night on your need for attention. You posted some where what does a person have to do to get it, kill them selves ??? There are so many other ways to get attention, why don't you try positive reinforcement, do something for some one else ? This is why, your not getting the results you want, you can't do the same thing over and over again, and expect different results. you want attention, then check your self into a hospital, but this is exactly what it appeared to me to be a baby tossing a tantrum, notice me, ugh I might jump, I swear I am gonna cut, you have had attention from everyone, and just like Cici suggested, there are so many people that want to get better, so that is where the time and attention goes.
The little boy cried wolf so many times that when the wolf was there no one came.

January 15, 2002
5:50 pm
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gypsygirl
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Cloud the only person who is hurt by you cutting yourself is you. I might sound harsh here, but barbara wont give a shit, she will just check you into the loony bin where you will recieve sleping pills and possibly other medication. If you want to cut yourself go ahead but realize that we cannot help you if you threaten to do stupid things everytime you do not get your way. Therapist have a job to to and barbara works as a therapist, her main priority is to her career, she wont lower her job morals for a girl who needs constant supervision. She will pick her career everytime over you. Please realize this and go to the people who truly do care about you your parents. You need a mother figure, why not have the real thing? I have been following your posts since I found this website. You need to wake the hell up and see this for what it is a temper tantrum by some immature girl who hasnt got the courage to go to her mother for advice and love.

January 15, 2002
11:44 pm
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cloud
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i'm sorry for bothering you all. sorry sorry sorry. just forget about me.

January 16, 2002
12:34 am
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damaged
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cloud your not bothering anyone or they wouldn't have read or much less responded to your post. I think what bothers people about this hole thing is they see you going to counseling and then you get dependant on the counselor and she doesn't respond in the way you think she should about a given situation. I don't see you helping your self to be happier, and it's hard for others to help you if you can't start by helping yourself first. That's why I wanted you to do one thing to help yourself feel better then write about it or talk to us about it. It starts with you, wouldn't it feel good to depend on cloud and not a counselor or us to say the right things. You need to reprogram your thinking, the world isn't here to dump on you, we are here to help you but we need some help from you. damaged

January 16, 2002
12:39 am
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damaged
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and no I not going to forget about you !!!

January 16, 2002
1:17 am
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Utahgirl
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Cloud,
Hi, this is utahgirl again. I went to my therapist tody and I would like to share something with you. I have an elementary school teacher that I have kept in contact with since I was a little girl. I was very close to her for many years. She was like a second mother to me. I would run to her when I was having feelings that I could not handle, at times I was even suicidal. Less than two years ago I changed our relationship by changing the way I interact with her. I still love her and she is still important to me but emotionally I am healthier. I still have difficult times and I still feel suicidal sometimes but overall I feel better avout myself by changing that one thing in my life. By being dependent on Barbara or any other therapist you are not helping yourself prepare for the future ahead of you. ENJOY COLLEGE AND HAVE FUN WHILE YOUR THERE.
I know it my be hard because you want someone to listen to you and take away the pain inside of you but if someone did that you would not grow and pain is one thing that God uses to help change us. That is why they are called growing pains. Well, time to go to bed. Think about what everyone is telling you.
Good-night Utahgirl

January 16, 2002
6:12 am
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Tinkerbe11
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TO GINGERLEIGH.MAYBE YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT ALL THAT STUFF YOU SAID, BUT,DID YOU HAVE TO PUT IT IN SUCH A NASTY WAY? I AGREE WITH YOU TO A CERTAIN EXTEND,BUT HEY,THIS IS WHEN CLOUD NEEDS US, NOT TO BE THROWN SHIT BACK AT,GOD!

January 16, 2002
8:20 am
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cloud
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ok, i know all of you are right. i have to be dependent on myself and have to help myself get better. no one can do this for me. but i have an incredibly hard time making this happen. when you go to a therapist, you're supposed to put some sort of dependency onto them, right? am i wrong? i don't know how much, i don't know how little...limits!! boundaries...so hard...where do i end and where do others begin...i don't know. what am i supposed to do instead when i get out of my session and feel like i'm going to pass out from ****something i can't even describe in words**** ??? how am i supposed to make myself feel better about being separated from barbara whom i am so attached to???

January 16, 2002
8:40 am
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damaged
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One day one min,one second at a time!!! Thats how befor you know you will have became the person you what to be. I am not the Woman I use to be but I am not the woman I was either. ONE DAY AT A TIME. (((((((((CLOUD)))))))))
DAMAGED

January 16, 2002
9:24 am
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artist
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I am not a therapist but I got an idea from reading this thread. In some self-help book that I read years ago, it talked about the idea of becoming attached to our self destructive behavior because the idea of change was an actual threat.

People feel safer with the known than the unknown. They are in pain and they want the pain to go away but the fear of living without that pain threatens them as well.

I do not know how a counselor would reply but my thoughts are that we shouldn't be dependent on counselors--we should accept guidance from them and be able to listen with an open mind to their ideas of how we can help ourselves but like I've said before, the work is our own.

So my guess is that the reason you have an incredibly hard timemaking a change is that in effect you are clinging to your pain because it is familiar--like an old friend--one that is terribly bad for you and one that gets you into trouble all the time.

I also think that you don't believe that you can get better--and if that is what you believe--you won't.

Clinging to your counselor feels safe to you--but all it is,is you getting in your own way.

--whatever reasons you started going to your counselor for in the first place--you have distracted yourself from--by your obsession with your counselor--just another way to keep holding on to your old comfortable friend ,pain--you are now focused on your fear of being abandoned and the real issues you have, have taken a back seat.

We all care about you here. Please respect us and show us that you care about yourself as well.

Artist

January 16, 2002
11:15 am
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gypsygirl
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artist, you have such a way with words. thanks.

January 16, 2002
11:29 am
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juliegirl425
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CLOUD

I used to cut. it feels good. nobody understands that. I do. i'm 16, and have finally quit... for 10 months anyway. just talk to someone. a best friend. i tried suicide... it wasnt for me. i couldnt do it. i dont think you want it either. dont give up. you'll have an angel come along to help you up when you really need it. even if you dont believe! hold on, ok?

January 16, 2002
11:39 am
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gingerleigh
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Tinkerbe11, please reread what I posted...

"Cloud, I don't want to sound unsympathetic, but honestly, what are you hoping that people will come back with? Pity? Anger? Hostility? Freak out? Tell you that you are still wanted in the world? Tell you to go ahead and cut, who cares? What would you respond to someone who had just posted that?"

If that sounds cruel, I suggest that you read it again. It's an honest question to Cloud, asking Cloud to pull out and look at the problems being faced as though they were someone else's.

I've seen many different approaches to posting here, from anger to soothing to babying, different things work for different people. These questions are what I would call a more "logical" approach, might work, might not. I'm not a therapist, never ever claimed to be, but I know what worked for me, and this was it. Cloud can take it or leave it.

And by the way, Cloud, for you, I'm not sure what comes into your mind when you picked your screen name, but I always thought it was a beautiful name. I can see where most might have the gloomy foggy grey interpretation, but what I always saw was a small white fluffy cloud, sort of like the cartoon ones from I think Bugs Bunny or Tom and Jerry that can move wherever it wants, chase whomever it wants, change direction at will, rain where it wants to, jolt someone with lightning if it wants to, or carry an angel if it wants to. Which one were you?

January 16, 2002
12:29 pm
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Molly
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Perhaps the problem is in the confusion of therapy, there should be an element of trust, but never dependency, they help you sort choices, and help you to become independent, not create dependency. Cheer leading, support, clarity, and some times a form of parenting, which I think I am beginning to understand why you get that feeling of abaondonment. Stll acting out in an inmature way, to get the need met. The truth is with the exception of a higher power we are all alone. No one can make our choices, or carry us through life. If the counselor can't motivate you to seek the mature independence that you need, you do need to move on to another one.

January 16, 2002
1:17 pm
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Tinkerbe11
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Sorry gingerleigh. I was angry and took it out on you.I also meant that for gsypygirl.No offence to anyone.I am REALLY sorry.URGH! I am even upsetting people on here who are trying to help me.Im sorry,sorry,sorry.
I was annoyed too what gypsy girl said.(SORRY).One of my worst fears is being chucked in the loony bin,and this brought home the reality.Sorry gingerleigh.

Ahh! Sorry if i have offended anyone.

January 16, 2002
1:25 pm
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eve
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Cloud, what do you think would it feel like to be a self dependent woman? Independent of others for their own wellbeing. And if you ever come to be such a woman - how would you notice that?

I guess that when you think about this - fear will be at the top of your mind (I can't won't wouldn't cope). Thats exactly not how it would feel like. Think some more (dream, if nothing else helps). Being independent is not scary, in fact its the exact opposite of that. Because you are the best friend, the best counselor and the best companion you'll ever have.

January 16, 2002
2:20 pm
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gingerleigh
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S'OK, Tink my dear. *hug* You're cool. I certainly *have* vented my spleen inappropriately at people on here, one poor woman who was struggling with how her boyfriend raped her daughter in particular got flooded by my overflowing spleen, and the tribe put me in my place. Doh!

I was pretty awful that woman, not just because she really was not seeing what needed to be seen (she wasn't), but due to things that happened to me in my younger days that just threw me into a rage at someone who frankly didn't deserve it. I took all that history and threw it at her. Wasn't fair at all.

You're fine, doll. And don't be SORRY about what annoys you or upsets you or pisses you off on these threads. You feel how you feel. You end up getting chucked in the loony bin not for feeling those things, but for not allowing yourself to feel those things or by telling yourself that feeling those things are wrong. The anger ends up coming out one way or another. Again, you're cool.

January 16, 2002
2:49 pm
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cloud
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maybe i am comfortable with the way that i am because it is the only way i know of. changing this seems so scary as i have no clue WHO or WHAT i would then be. right now, i have no idea WHO i am...only a 21 year old female in school who has a mother, father, brother, a best friend, a great online friend, and a borderline personality that's only gotten worse since the diagnosis. this little girl inside me hates me for the way i act out, she's scared of me sometimes, she doesn't understand why i have to be put in my place sometimes, and why she must suffer too when she never did anything wrong in the first place.

the reason i started going to therapy in high school was because of depression, then a suicide threat. then i started going while in college because of depression and anxiety AND because of my dependency issues and obsessions. for the past year now (on and off) i've been in therapy for the reason of the dependency and attachments. that IS my main issue.

the reason i picked my screen name CLOUD was because i wrote a book once called "to be within a cloud" about my experience with depression in high school. the word cloud was always what i used to describe the horribleness i felt over me. however, i go by the name borderlinechild on other sites.

maybe certain things happened in my life as a child that made me feel unloved or frustrated with the idea of comfort. and whatever it means to have boundaries and limits and self-soothing...emotion regulation...all these terms from therapy...all these things i don't know how to do. maybe you all would think it's stupid why i try to justify my feelings as a child, but my little girl doesn't understand that. she's still a child and wonders why she can't get her needs met by someone ELSE besides her family...because maybe she felt the need to look elsewhere outside of the family when she was so young that she has not given up the search and still longs to find that one person who will take care of her.

January 16, 2002
3:30 pm
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gingerleigh
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Cloud, who do you think that one person who can take care of you is? Uhhhmmmm...

Go to the mirror and look in it and you'll see her standing there.

Somewhere Ladeska posted a story where she ended up comforting a woman who was a lot like herself, and acted like a mom to that needy scared and angry child for that other woman. While she was comforting that woman's child, she was also comforting the child within herself. Perhaps reaching out to help others would be a way to start trying to comfort and care for yourself. Maybe by helping to ease their pain, you'll ease some of your own.

January 16, 2002
5:13 pm
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Molly
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Cloud, we all have that scared little girl in us, hell I am 48, don't get scared, its normal to have that kid in us. The thing is, you could be just the opposite of the rest of us, most of us need to let out that inner child, where you need to let out the inner adult. We all talked about art therapy once, maybe it could help you, take the magazines, and make a collage of what your adult could or you want her to look like, get Dr Phil's book life stratgies, and make the plan. I had this thought about Peter Pan, didn't he want to stay a little boy for ever, maybe it would be good reading. could be we will call you Wendy from now on, isn't she the one that encouraged Peter Pan to grow up, that would be better to remind you of some label that was fun, vs depressed. You did a good job of putting your self out there, it was real hard I am sure, to share those things. One foot in front of the other, one hour at a time.

January 16, 2002
5:38 pm
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Ladeska
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Cloud....so, tell me about - what you would be running away from - as far as needing to go outside your family to find comfort, love, etc. What particular things make you want to run away. Don't worry about sentence structure, let your little girl talk, type if you want to, in fact, I'd rather - she talk anyways..

January 17, 2002
5:13 am
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Tinkerbe11
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Thanx for forgiving me GL.

xxx

January 17, 2002
11:34 am
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gingerleigh
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Tinkerbe11, no problem, as you didn't do anything that needs "forgiving", you just posted honestly. You're OK, smile, lots of people on here care about you.

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