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financial abuse?
February 19, 2003
10:46 am
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My husband who i was sep from for a year, brought himself a very expensive vehicle with a large down payment of money that he gave his father to buy for him. He gave his father 20,000 during our seperation and lied to me telling me he had no money ( we went hungry and barely made bills ) His father took this money and brought a fifty thousand dollar vehicle for his son which is under his fathers name ( father got the financing )
My husband did this so i wouldnt get my hands on the money or vehicle and neither would his debtors ( who hes claiming bankrupsy against, but putting it off )
I thought this was disgusting. I only just found out a few weeks ago, how much of a down payment he actually put down. I was sick to my stomach when i thought about the grief and poverty we went through when he left us. I was so angry, i coudlnt speak to him for a day. But then i had to just bite it and say this was in the past. He assured me he would never do anything like that again.

Now were in a situation where we are two weeks behind on morgage and prop taxes. We also have an unpaid water bill and other bills including my cell phone, insurance etc.

Ive told him, the vehicle he brought has to be sold back for two reasons.

!) TO SAVE OUR HOME AND PAY OUR BILLS BEFORE WE LOSE IT
2) THE TAX ADVANTAGES OF THE VEHICLE PURCHASE ARE ALL GOING TO HIS DECEITFUL FATHER, NOT HIM OR US.
3) THE MONEY HE USED WAS PARTLY MINE AND BY LAW I COULD PUT A LIEN AGAINST IT
4) THE VEHICLE SHOULD NOT MEAN MORE THAN US!

He has quit drinking for us but he tells me that i am manipulating him now that he is back and emotionally involved with me again, into this. He basically called me a manipulating, lying B. I am none of the above, i have nothing for myself. What money he gives me i spend on him and children. I dont even have a cent left over for anything extra. I used to be very well off personally and had all my own money. I find this whole situation to be degrading and personally painful.

On top of it, he says the vehicle gives him self worth in his work. It is a SYMBOL OF HIS SUCCESS when he drives it and i obviously dont value his success or him by asking him to sell his precious baby.

February 19, 2003
10:54 am
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Rhymes, you've been here before, hoping and hoping and hoping that he would change. Rhymes, you deserve so much better than this! I'm sorry if I sound angry or harsh. I am on your side, honestly! And I hate so much to see you go through the lies, deceit, manipulation, the flat out... ABUSE.

My heart goes out to you Rhymes. Maybe someone else has some better advice for you to help you through.

February 19, 2003
11:16 am
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Good morning rhymes....at least for me it is 🙂

Did you and hubby reconcile?
Is he back at home with you?

February 19, 2003
11:26 am
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Ok...I just reread your post and determined that he is back....

He sounds like the typical alcoholic.
You realize that alcoholism is a disease....one that will always exist.

Once people quit drinking they still will have the same behavior....

He sounds not only verbally abusive to you....but does he have your families best wishes at heart?

My husband bought himself a truck...when we couldn't afford it really, but it did him wonders in the area of his self-worth. It's false self worth...but he loves all the attention he gets when he drives it.

I learned to back off that as a possibility to solve our financial problems. Luckily, he has been working lots of overtime and so far we are keeping our heads above water 🙂

After I realized that his vehicle meant so much to him, I accepted that he has a boundary there firmly in place. So...are there any other solutions to your finances? Is he able to get another job to bail your finances out?

I hear all your resentment. If you love him, you need to accept him for who he is...if you can't do this...then move on before you lose your sanity. I go to Al-anon for tools in my recovery. Have you ever tried this for support for yourself?

February 19, 2003
11:51 am
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God, i dont know. Am i being codep and trying to control, manipulate him and not respect his boundaries as he says or am i being REAL and trying to save our home? I am not wanting anything for myself, just for US.

Why should i just tread water? Why should we jsut get by every day so he can have his chick magnet>?

I cant work, im pregnant and have a little one that demands all my time as well as maintaining this large hom every day. He hasnt fixed one thing here although the kitchen ceiling has a leak, the downstairs toilet is broken, the hot tub is in need of rewiring which he could easily do but doesnt.

It seems like everything is about HIM.

What are these alcoholic behaviors you speak of? Hes not drinking but he seems so damn selfish.

We also only have sex once every three weeks now. I cant stand that.
I really need way more attention, intimacy and love. He says hes too tired, he does work every day. But when he has time off hes on the computer or with our child.

I feel so taken for granted.

Its hard to just leave after having children withsomeone and being married over ten years.

I feel awful for the first time in a long time. My happiness can not be dependent upon what he does but how do you stop things like this affecting you?

every day i wake up and wonder if the repo guy will take my vehicle or the foreclosure people will be at my door with a bailiff.

February 19, 2003
12:01 pm
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Unfortunately, the only thing you can control in your life is Yourself 🙂

You cannot control other people, places, or things.

You stated that your husband quit drinking for you....He has to quit drinking for him. It will never stick if he does it for someone else.

You can focus on yourself. You fear losing your home, your vehicle, and your sanity. You are pregnant and have lots of responsibilites as a mother and wife. Your husband goes to work but neglects his home, his wife and his financial obligations.

Sounds like you are under alot of stress.....Hugs to you.

When I am stressed I say the Serenity Prayer

God, Grant me the serenity, to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

May I suggest you checking out the Al-Anon website....to see if you can gain some perspective again.

February 19, 2003
12:12 pm
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I also noticed that alot of your reactions are fear based. Face your fears.
The truck is a babe magnet....fear that he wants someone else.

The baliff will come and repo the vehicle and home....fear.

Fear that he doesn't love you....isn't affectionate towards you.

Rhymes, I am sure that you are a wonderful person.

Take steps to resolve each issue...one at a time.

Your resentment towards your father-in-law. Your resentment towards hubby for leaving you and not caring about you while he is driving his new vehicle....
Don't let your resentments cloud your right to choose to be loving and happy. Your precious baby inside of you needs your energies to be positive and serene. Hugs

February 19, 2003
12:59 pm
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wise words mj, so i guess, i will again take a lot of the responsibility for my pain on myself.

Is that what you do in alanon? Take responsibility for your own life regardless of what your partner is doing to detrimentally affect it?

Where is the line between denial and being positive and loving. Im afraid im giving way too much of my power away.

I became very positive, took responsibility for my life etc and yes it did heal our relationship.

Maybe it is wrong of me to expect him to liquidate that vehicle, even if he did use my cash.

Its hard to let go of the resentment and pain he caused us when he abandoned us but i know i should.

Am i repressing when i do this?

I could keep our marriage together and he woudl stay with me if i do what you are suggesting but am i really doing the best for myself, my spirit and my life?

Am i really being real?

tell me more mj and anyone else who has input for me:)

February 19, 2003
1:11 pm
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Hi Rhymes,
Only you know what feels right for you.

If you want to remain with your husband, you need to forgive and accept.

I am not saying that you should become his doormat...just take each problem and resolve it between the two of you. It is about communication. When you listen, you validate his feelings....and when he listens to you...he validates your feelings....and hopefully with love and understanding and patience, you both will find a solution to each problem.
I am not denying that you have problems, you do, I am just saying that finding solutions to the problems will help ease your resentments. Attacking each other doesn't solve problems. Name calling doesn't solve problems. Blaming does not solve problems. Finding options to each problem, and then doing them ...solves problems. That would be the ideal!
If you truly love one another, you will find the answers. Hugs

February 19, 2003
3:53 pm
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Hi Rhymes,

I'm an alcoholic in recovery. I work the 12 step program of alcoholics anonymous and was wondering if your husband is in AA? I agree with MJ...great that he quit drinking, but hopefully he will be doing it for himself and not just to try and "fix" things with you and family. Alcoholism is a disease that affects the whole family, as you have found out. Some 'untreated' alcoholic behaviours that I have exhibited are being very self-centered, selfish, egotistical, having the notion of being unique, and basically just being self absorbed. (this is a very short list) By untreated, I don't mean the alcoholic who is still drinking...I mean the alcoholic who may have already quit, but who isn't actively working to keep the disease at bay. This work can be done through a therapist, aa, or a number of other programs that are probably out there. In anycase...he is the alcoholic and when he has had enough pain and suffering, maybe then he will be willing to change for the better. That 'bottom' does not always have to be a drinking bottom. It can be what we call a 'dry drunk' bottom...where you say to yourself, enough is enough...I cannot live like this anymore. Then, either drink...or get help. Everyone has their own bottom. Which brings me to you. Have you hit bottom? Obviously I don't mean a drinking bottom...emotionally? Are you ready to get help? Alanon is there as MJ pointed out. The blame game only goes so far. The resentments that you can build up against your husband in the long run will only hurt you (and your unborn child), physically, emotionally, mentally. There is no answer to tell you about what to do with your situation with your husband. Someone told me once "you cannot 'fix' your marraige" You can only work on yourself and your own behaviours. I did not like that answer at the time. I thought there was something I could do to fix things...the only thing I can do is work on bettering myself, and I do that by working the 12 steps of AA. And you know what? By working on myself, my marraige has improved. It's not perfect...but it is getting better as I do.

I hope you take the time to look into getting help for yourself Rhymes. It is worth it. You are worth it. And really, you will be amazed at how much better you will feel and how much better you will handle things.

I'm looking back on what I wrote...I hope none of this sounds to harsh. I just want for you to take care of yourself. Alcoholism is a disease that causes a lot of damage and usually has taken years to develop...it does not go away overnight. Work is needed. Good luck to you. My thoughts and prayers are with you 🙂

February 19, 2003
4:59 pm
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Its strange, i always felt pretty together but now it seems im not so together after all.

Yes, hes behaving in a manner taht is very selfish, egotistical and painful to me. Ive expressed this to him and hes heard me and hes told me today on the phone that he will make the extra cash we need to keep everything.

In the mean time, i guess i need to get myself help for what appears to be codependency.

I thought i was so together, i thought i had done so much work on myself but you guys are saying draw back the blame, criticism, hes behaving like a dry drunk but you are also reacting. I need to respond to mylife and my relationships from a place of power, right?

REgardless of what others do or dont do. He is not the key to my happiness although i am financially dep on him at the moment.

This is all tough, deep stuff but im ready to do the work, boy am i ready.
Im gonna get myself into a codep/alanon group asap. You say the 12 steps will work for me too? Even though im not an addict?

I would like to hear more about how your lives have changed.

Thank you so much for helping.

February 19, 2003
5:36 pm
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Sorry, those are above are ALL kind word, but they ENABLE his irresponsible behavior!!! He has a FAMILY!!!! And you can't get hte motgage together or the bills. The truck has GOTTA GO!! That was decietful and dirty of him!!! Nothing but. YOU are worth soo much more than that. Sex onver every 3 weeks, and buddy blasting around in a chick magnet.....??? Gee I dunno..? My radar would be going off. BUt that's just me. A small second hand car at a quarter of the price would be approproiate. WHO CARES if you are driving a fancy 50K car you don;t actually OWN it outright. It is FINANCED= BORROWED...until the payments stop and BUh BYE..and gee that will LOOK soo much better to the neighbors??? WIFE and KIDS FIRST!!! WHERE is his HEAD??? Don't answer...the sun don't shine up there!!! YOU are being REAL he is living in a FAKE World. SOO sad , some guys just never GROW UP!!.

February 19, 2003
5:36 pm
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Sorry, those are above are ALL kind word, but they ENABLE his irresponsible behavior!!! He has a FAMILY!!!! And you can't get hte motgage together or the bills. The truck has GOTTA GO!! That was decietful and dirty of him!!! Nothing but. YOU are worth soo much more than that. Sex onver every 3 weeks, and buddy blasting around in a chick magnet.....??? Gee I dunno..? My radar would be going off. BUt that's just me. A small second hand car at a quarter of the price would be approproiate. WHO CARES if you are driving a fancy 50K car you don;t actually OWN it outright. It is FINANCED= BORROWED...until the payments stop and BUh BYE..and gee that will LOOK soo much better to the neighbors??? WIFE and KIDS FIRST!!! WHERE is his HEAD??? Don't answer...the sun don't shine up there!!! YOU are being REAL he is living in a FAKE World. SOO sad , some guys just never GROW UP!!.

February 19, 2003
5:54 pm
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Ok im so bloody confused!

February 19, 2003
6:00 pm
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Life's strict rule is this: You get more of what you focus on. Ignoring this, we abandon our healthiest, concentrative energies and court emotional upheaval!

ISNT THIS WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT, EVERYONE WHO FOCUSES ON SHIT WILL GET SHIT!

February 19, 2003
6:25 pm
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Well, there is a difference between wallowing in shit and focusing on shit so that it can be cleaned up. Perhaps another one of life's strict rules would be: "SHE WHO IGNORES SHIT IS SURE TO STEP IN IT."

🙂

February 19, 2003
6:30 pm
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Ginger, again maybe you should clean up your own shit off your shoe before pointing out other peoples shitty shoes and demanding they clean them up.

Again, i ask you to stay off my thread

February 19, 2003
6:34 pm
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Your comments have no place on my thread. YOur last comment to me was unwanted, rude and angry. I am hardly wallowing in anything. I am staying with my husband because i have CHILDREN with him, he is my family, you hardly are in a position to comment on that.

I also dont leave men and move on to be faced with my own stuff again. I want to understand what this relationship is teaching me about myself. I want to heal, its easy to blame and run.

easy

its hard to look at the shit and realise that hes not the only contributor and for me not to step and stand in shit anymore, i need to be more aware of IT. So does everyone who is forever finding themselves in UNSATISFYING AND ABUSIVE relationships yet they go out of their way to judge and trip on other women who are exactly like themselves.

February 19, 2003
8:14 pm
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Ouch Rhymes. I wasn't trying to be mean, nor was I "demanding" that you do anything. I posted something that I thought was relevant, and maybe would even be entertaining to you. It was insensitive, I can see that now, and I'm sorry for not perceiving that this wouldn't be well-received. I didn't think it through, honest.

I feel like you are biased against anything that I have to say, and that you just, well, flat out don't like me. I guess there is no way for you and me to relate, just the way it goes I guess. Hey, some people don't like rap music, and others don't like country, right? I won't bug you any further, since it only upsets you (counterproductive) and your responses upset and hurt me (also counterproductive). Good luck and best wishes. No hard feelings, OK? 🙂

February 19, 2003
9:14 pm
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Well i dont know how else to take the comment that i continue to "wallow in shit"

Not many ways to take that one, especially when im laying my life out here for everyone to see and comment on.

Just as if we were in a group setting, its not kosher to try to control others into doing something that YOU feel they should do. Its also not kosher to jump on any woman if she chooses to stay in a situation that YOU feel is damaging to her. We are all individuals and judgment just isnt a positive, constructive thing in any circle.

February 19, 2003
9:59 pm
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Whoa! Whoa! Settle down...A certain level of respect is required by ALL parties here. I have no comment on whether what Ginger said was 'right' or 'wrong' or 'appropriate' or 'inappropriate', and yes, rhymes, you're 'laying your life' down here, but this is a forum of a wide variety of different people, each of whom are going to have different opinions based on their life experiences and values etc. I assume you posted here because you wanted a variety of different opinions. It sort of seems like you have a 'set idea about the sort of feedback you want and the answers that you want to hear' and are quite negative when posts are contrary to what you want to hear. That's OK. The point of this board is that there are lots of view points...some of which won't be appropriate for you based upon your evaluation of your life circumstances and how you feel the suggestions will fit into your life. That said you need to 'take what you want and discard the rest'. I didn't find Ginger's comment *that* offensive, but she wasn't talking about me or my life and I can understand that you may have been insulted by her comment. But state it and move on. There's no point having a kitty cat fight about it is it? The situation at hand is how to help you deal with the situation involving your husband...it's not going to be beneficial going off on to side tangents is it? The reason why people talk about their problems is it's often harder to see the 'full picture' when you're 'caught in the middle'. 'Outside observers' are often detached enough that they can glimpse all this, when you (generic you) can't. People on this board are generally only here to help. If you don't want their help, that's cool, that's your right...state it and move on.

Getting to the issue at hand...

I wish I could offer something for you to help with your situation, but I don't see that there is an easy solution. It's commendable that you want to stay with your husband to create a home and family for your children, but by doing that are you just sacrificing yourself? I won't butter it...your husband sounds incredibly selfish and self centred and doesn't seem to be able to recognise his responsibilities. Onedayatatime has suggested that that might be residual effects of his alcohol addiction. I don't know...maybe. Where you around before his alcohol addiction? What was he like then? Is it a 'personality trait' of his or has his behaviour changed due to his addiction? It seems he is more interested in putting his interests before that of his immediate family. That's fine. People are entitled to do that, but then if that's what you chose to do, it probably wasn't the fairest thing to have got married and had children. I'd question his attachment to his father. What's that about? What is it that makes him feel a 'stronger' bond towards his father than what he does for his wife of 10 years and his children? You could force him to sell the truck, but I think doing that would probably create considerable resentment from him, which, if you wish to stay married probably would be detrimental in the long run. Is there some other way that money can be saved so that you can pay the assorted bills and save the house? Above all else, your husband needs to appreciate that he has a family that is solely reliant upon HIM...and that means sacrifices. Certainly he has made a good start in improving the situation if he has stopped drinking etc, but that's only part of it...he has more work to do.

February 19, 2003
10:05 pm
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Ohh PS...make sure you keep documentation of everything. Do you have proof of the downpayment your husband put on the car? That it was done even though he was filing for bankruptcy?

Even though you intend to stay with your husband, I think it would be in your best interest to consult a lawyer (secretly) to discuss what your rights/options are. If your husband was prepared to file for bankruptcy while buying a $50,000 vehicle and not financially providing for his wife and child once, then who knows what level he'd stoop to if there were issues again. Even if you NEVER use the information, having it BEFORE YOU NEED IT (just in case) is still a good idea.

February 20, 2003
5:36 am
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It's 2:30 in the morning here....and I layed awake because the pain of my ankle was getting to me...so got up and here I am....wondering if I could have been more sympathetic earlier 🙂

I would have been damn mad to find out that my husband had left me, hid money from me, and fraudulently hid it through his father to buy himself an expensive toy.

I sympathize with you over this point.
It wasn't nice, it wasn't fair, it wasn't responsible....It must have hurt like hell after reconciling then finding out that he stashed 20,000 while you and your child went without.
Lived in a home that needed repairs, went without alot of things, and the fear of survival, pending divorce as a possibility....and delivery of a baby by yourself.... LOTs of reasons to feel hurt there. Expressing this anger here is healthy...You are aware that he did not have your best interests at heart. How could he do that to you and his children....you are thinking.

As Onedayatatime stated....and I do say I admire her very much 🙂

The disease of alcohol is a selfish disease.

What we do to ourselves by staying with an alcoholic is our choice.
My husband drinks, not all the time, but I think he has a problem....but I can't do anything about his problem. He has to do something about it. I can only make choices that concern my behavior. In Al-anon, others are dealing with similar situations, we share our strenghth, hope, experience, and support. There are tools to recovery, like the approved literature, slogans, sponsors, meetings, and HOPE. If we concentrate on ourselves, and our own recovery from the effects of alcohol then we learn other ways of reacting and dealing with our lives.

I strongly believe that the 12 step program is useful for living life. If we work the program, we find serenity. If we focus on our recovery, we can learn to help ourselves.

Hugs to you Rhymes....

I admire you for trying to help yourself by reaching out to others for advice and opinions. We all have opinions and they are free 🙂

February 20, 2003
9:10 am
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Good morning Rhymes 🙂

How are you today?

You asked if a 12 step program could help you, even though you are not an addict. Alanon is a 12 step program, so yes...I think it can help. I don't know much about alanon except that it is based on the 12 steps of alcoholics anonymous...slightly modified for the affected family memeber.

I disagree with Jade...I don't see how taking care of yourself will enable your husband. In fact, as you begin to grow, you will learn how not to enable his behaviors. Yes, buying that truck was irresponsible and selfish...and from what I gathered you already talked to him about it and he apparently does not see the problem with it. Well...where does that leave you? You can continue to argue the point and continue to resent him, or move on.

You say you are financially dependent on him. Is there anyway you can start to become financially independent? I know you are pregnant now, and that will most likely delay things...but maybe start to think about what you can do after your child is born to put some money away? (In an account he cannot access)

Let me tell you about what I did not to long ago...My husband and I were having a lot of problems with our marraige. Both of us at points thought we were going to ask for a divorce (we never told each other until recently). Anyway, I was completely financially dependent upon him. He made good money, he paid the bills, but there was not much left over. We also had a credit card debt that was unbelievable. And he liked buying expensive "toys". I knew if I asked for a divorce I would be in trouble financially. We have three kids, ages 7, 5 and 3. They eat up a lot of money too. Anyway, I realized that I needed to get some money. I went back to work. For a long time, my paycheck was basically just paying for child care. But I'm now at the point where there is money left over in my paycheck to be put away, or help pay for bills. I have a job that is very flexible with raising a family (this is not always possible, I know). I work 25 hours a week, and have the option of working more hours when I'm able to (time wise). Bottom line...I went from being a stay at home mom, totally dependent on my husband financially, to being able to support myself if need be.

Now, during this time, we have taken steps in our marraige and we have both decided to stick it out and work on our relationship with each other. However, regardless of our relationship, I'm secure in knowing that if for some reason it doesn't work out between me and my husband, I won't be hung out to dry. I can take care of myself and my kids.

This all takes time and effort and is by no means easy. When I was where you are now, I thought there was no way I could do this. But taking it little steps at a time...I got there.

I know this doesn't help with what you are going through right now, but if nothing else...it's something to think about.

It stinks...the situation you are in...but it's wonderful that you are talking about it and looking for solutions 🙂

February 20, 2003
12:08 pm
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One day anf MJ your responses aew wise, mature and obviouly come from a place of hard earned life lessons and contemplation.

Im not sure whether im going to stay or leave and i hate that instability and he senses it too.

Yes, he sees his father and mother in law without ever inviting me or our family. I have told him he needs to choose me over them if they arent going to be civil, nice and accepting to us. He says "we've just gotten back together, you cant expect them to welcome you with open arms after we were basically divorced. I said, i have - i sent cards at gifts at xmas, they sent me nothing. I sent them an e mail stating that i have let go of the way they treated me and would like to be friends. They didnt even reply. Its really disgusting the way they treat me along with my husband who goes over there for dinner, his b day, whatever. Im stuck here and if i call there his mother in law is rude and reluctant to give the phone to my husband. I really feel like writing them a letter. His father in law was behaving fraudulently by hiding his sons (and mine) money. They are mean people and im really angry how they treated me/us.

My husband has changed and it gives me hope, but im attractive, educated and had offers whhile i was seperated from him from seemingly healthy males. I dont believe i am messed up or very codep. Im strong and do hav my own interests, its just him having financial control takes so much of the power i used to have.
He doesnt use our home phone for his calls and is careful not to leave his beemer/car documentation around for me to find. He rarely lets me drive it.

My sons loves him so and a broken home is something i dread. Im not afraid of any other women being attracted to him driving his "chick magnet\" Im quite confident in who i am and know im a catch for many men even if i do have children.

We dont verbally abuse, shout, threaten or give each other the silent treatment any more which i understand would b "dry drunk" stuff,

There is hope, isnt there?

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