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Feeling Free and Strong...
May 9, 2007
5:56 pm
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2bstrong
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Hi FF...I'm going to the park to walk. I loved your post! I laughed out loud at the eyerolls...and rolled my eyes with you! Because--I HAVE BEEN THERE.

You sound so good...always so positive and optimistic.

I'll be back with vino in hand to tell you all about RS.

May 9, 2007
5:57 pm
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Also--to responds to several of the posts and comments above. Not just to talk about me.

May 9, 2007
6:34 pm
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feelingfree
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Cool- because I've had the cocktails flowin' tonight 🙂
I'll be ready to read!

May 9, 2007
8:41 pm
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Hey FF...I'm Back! Woo hoo. Bought a bottle of Kenwood Chardonnay to switch from the reds. It's really good. Cost about 12 per bottle; and it tastes like pears and fruit. Yum.

How about you? What's the flavor of cocktail this eve?

About RS. I met him on Yahoo personals. I have a job that is far removed from the urban life; it's a private compound in a rural setting. I don't have friends who hang out in bars, although we sure do drink enough. My social life consists of hanging out with my sister who is 27, and my friend John. Good company; but not necessarily the people to be with to meet men of my age...and I do do other stuff; I play golf and go to the range--I work out--I call it the happy hour workout because I go at 5:00 or so. The gym is a big part of my social network, and there is a lot of flirting going on, but really no action. I don't get it.

Anywho--about RS. He's 39, and he moved to STL from Alaska last August. He has a baby face; he's cute--not drop dead gorgeous...but let me tell you--he has self-confidence out the wazoo. Not the arrogant kind...the charming kind. Our first date was on Ash Wednesday--don't remember the date--but sometime in February. He asked me out again while we were still eating dinner and the night he wanted to go, I said I had plans...he asked what they were...and I told him another date. He grabbed my hand across the table, looked me in the eyes, and said, "Don't go." How coudl I say no to that? I thought that spoke volumes to me as to how I felt about him. That he was worth abandoning someone for. I told him I didn't kiss on the first date--and he followed me to the restroom and tried to kiss me! I was pleasantly shocked--but I didn't kiss him. He tried again by the car...and I turned my cheek toward him.

He's the kind of guy that has grown on me. He's an ER Doc who's board certified; he is a flight surgeon at this time for the Air force. He's able to perform emergency surgery and medicine in flight. He's about 5'8" and isn't skinny, isn't fat. Just right. He has brown eyes and curly brown eyelashes. He isn't a very good kisser at all! (I'm telling all here). But he is sweet, tender, and seems to like me very much.

I've been helping him shop for a house, and he has mentioned several times that he should ask me to marry him. I always tell him that it's too soon. And then he says, "Ok. I'll ask you tomorrow then." One time he asked me if I saw any red flags with him. I told him I did not. The only thing I notice is that in our phone conversations, he doesn't ask me how I'm doing or how my day is. He starts right in about his events. It doesn't bother me, yet--but it's something I notice.

He is ions beyond Dr. B in emotional maturity. I asked him yesterday if he'd ever had an affair (he was married for three years...they grew apart; his heart was broken) and he looked me right in the eye and said "I would never do that. That isn't right". It's not only what he said, but how he said it.

Yesterday we were riding around with the real estate agent...and I asked if we could drive down a street with a for sale sign at the entrance. He had found three houses, but wasn't really happy with them--but feels the pressure to buy because his tour in the military ends next month. I have to tell you--as soon as we walked into this house--it had his name all over it. We talked about some cosmetic updates--and there was another couple also looking at the same time! They left, and low and behold, the owner came own and was able to answer some questions that RS has. He was beaming. He made an offer, and they accepted his offer today. Wonderful news. He thanked me a million times for asking to go out of the way yesterday.

We have been intimate...a VERY big deal for me. I don't do that unless I am sure that it's going to be something of substance. He's a good lover--so selfless.

That's the story about RS. I don't feel the same way that I did with Dr. B, but I never felt that way with anyone in my life. RS is comforting and easy. He is so different than Dr. B. He is a severe brainiac, but is not insecure or arrogant.

Have to refill the glass--will be right back!

May 9, 2007
8:51 pm
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I wonder FF. Was ex-n an escape from you? In our situations, codpendency is so common. You wanted to help him--in the way that I B as a boy who needs love and caring. You found solace in him at a time when you and ex-h had separated. Did he fill that need to help for you? So dangerous. In my case, Dr. B told me "all he wanted was someone to be good to him; to be nice to him". Ha. I thought how easy that would be. I could give and give and give till my heart's content. Just like I did with ex-ex.

As far as addictive relationships. I know there is a book out there called "Is it love, or is it Addiction"? I think I've read it. I just looked over my shoulder and I did buy it. It's a good one; it's published by Hazeldon, the self-help book and codependency publishers. Why do you think your relationship with him was more heartfelt than addictive? It sounds dependent--not necessarily addictive.

Can you see yourself with him? Really. As a life-partner? We're being honest, here. I know sometime last week you talked about writing a letter to him...but stalled when it came to what to say. I have felt that way before about ex-ex; but never with Dr. B. There is always a lot I want to say to him...questions I want to ask him. What would the gist of your letter be, even if you can't go into all the details?

How old is your son? Tell me about him...

May 9, 2007
9:01 pm
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Also FF...tell me about ex-h. Do you think that telling ex-n that you were engaged was a prediction for the future? How did you meet ex-h. Am I remembering correctly that you were together for 18 years? Such a long time. Is your son the child of your relationship?

I feel in my gut that I'll hear from B. About the no contact...we're baring all here! I thought it was funny that you marked the days on a calendar. I was doing the no contact club--and I think it was a way for me to keep him in my mind. I had been dating and was meeting nice guys! Nice. But no physical chemistry...one guy...The trader, he liked me so much. I felt terrible telling him I needed to take a break, but I couldn't go on. I told him I needed some space. And that was the truth. There was no one in the wings. No one compares to the passion that Boob and I had. It doesn't even come close.

How is your chemistry with your ex-h?

May 9, 2007
10:00 pm
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Oh 2b~ what a GREAT post! I was GLUED!

Sorry I fell off the planet- had company and was watching American Idol... but now I feel COMPELLED to write back! I just told ex-H I'd be down on the computer for awhile and he can watch by himself, haha!

First- other than not being a great kisser (which you can TEACH), RS sounds pretty awesome.. although- I have to say, not asking you about your day, etc.. and just going into his own stuff.. is a red flag to me. Only because ex-N was that way.. even in the very beginning when he was REALLY NICE to me. He would always be me-me-me.. and then at the END would follow with "so.. how was YOUR day". I never liked that much. But not fair to 'compare'.. just saying.. you know what I mean.

You said he was selfless in the bedroom- very important. I have to tell you, everything you described to me.. the whole- him-being-very-nice-but-you-not-'feeling' it thing.. comes right out of a book called "Women who Love Too Much". If memory serves, I think you told me you read that one? If not, go out and get it ASAP. If so.. check out chapter 11) "Recovery and Intimacy: Closing the Gap". About "Trudi" a woman who recovers from addictive relationships, finds a wonderful man and wonders "where did all my sexual feelings go".
She can't find that "spark" with the new, loving guy. Only with guys who are emotionally unavailable. It explains all the WHY'S, explains that its normal, and I think it really may apply to your situation right now with RS.

You asked me alot of questions.. lets see.. the one about ex-N and 'mothering'.. yes.. you nailed it, he was definitely an 'escape' for me. And nurture I did. I loved feeling like I was helping him in some way. I had a list of things I did for him and his daughter... and looking back.. I wished I would have backed off some. I'm sure I wasn't making him feel as 'good' as I thought I was. I was, more likely, making him feel inferior to me. But, I did it from the heart regardless. Looking back.. I realize now.. I had NO BUSINESS DATING ANYONE AT THAT TIME. 6 months after my separation, I was in massive denial. I was moving in a fog. I had NO feelings. I was numb. I hadn't even BEGUN the process of healing.. hell, I was in the beginning stages of everything. So, ex-N really didn't have a CHANCE. He stirred up all kinds of things inside me, the biggest being CONFUSION. As I'm writing this, 2b, I'm "getting it". This never came out before. THIS is what I'd like to tell him in a letter. Exactly what I'm saying now. Not an apology per-say, but an explanation, saying "this is the person I was THEN.. this is the person I am NOW.. it was a mistake to try and have any type of relationship with you.. and that part of it was my fault, and I take responsibility for that now."

You asked if I could have a real relationship with ex-N. I guess my explanation above answers that.
If I had met him now.. and was free.. I think I'd be a healthier me.. and wouldn't be attracted to him. Geez 2b, this is getting real. And deep.. and honest. And wow.. it's really good to know this.
It will help me continue with CLOSURE.

Ex-H and how we met- we'll save that story for another time (this is getting long).

Yes, our son.. is a product of our relationship 🙂 He's our one and only.. he'll be 17 this year. We were engaged when I got pregnant, so we just moved the wedding date up a bit.. haha.

I met my ex-H when I was just turning 19.. and now I'm 40.. man, time flies. We lived together for 5 years before we were engaged.. and married the others. I guess that means we've been together for 21 years if you don't count the 3 years separated.

Passion with ex-H.. hmmmm.. oh yes, in the early days, sure.. but that turned to love quickly.. and after 20 years together, that fluttering stomach thing goes away.. but there is something so much deeper. We are best friends. At night, after work, we are glued to each other. We watch tv, and talk, and read together, and our favorite part of the night-is going upstairs and snuggling. I swear- after 20 years.. I am amazed at how close we are. And although passion has died somewhat (normal).. 'romance' hasn't. Lets just say for our age, we do just fine in that dept, and we're probably more active then some 20-somethings! LOL!

I know what you're talking about with regard to that passionate RUSH you feel with Dr. B.. I had that too.. and man, it's an awesome feeling. But you have to remember, that feeling ends in time.. no matter who you're with.. and there has to be something more to take it's place.. otherwise, after the lust is gone, there's nothing left.

Well- ex-H just yelled down that Lakisha got voted off American Idol..(hello? Blake stinks in my opinion).. so I'm going to sign off now.. but will write tomorrow.

Have a great night!
(((2b)))
PS- I was drinking 7&7s. But Chardonney is my fav wine!

May 10, 2007
9:35 am
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Well, I did it 2b~ I guess after everything I wrote last night about ex-N.. I really wanted to make him aware that I have put the past in the past. I TMed him this morning and said this: I don't hate anymore, just wish you happiness. Take care.
He TMed back: U2.

Wow.. what a feeling. A little sadness, a little relief.. just a sense that its finally OVER and I have let it go. I'm glad I did it.

How are you today?

May 10, 2007
12:23 pm
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hi FF...Wow. I have been in a meeting this am...will be back. I hope you are doing ok. I know the feeling toooooo well. That is how I felt last November when I told B I couldn't stay connected.

We are so kind.

May 10, 2007
12:50 pm
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FF...

Our situations are similar in that we met people that we fell in love with when we were very fragile. I was dating only four months after the end of the ten-plus year relationship with ex-ex. So much hurt, need, lonliness at that time. Like you said, moving in a FOG. I look back and think I should have let myself grieve and mourn, but I was so afraid of being alone for the rest of my life. I kind of chuckle about that now, and think being alone is just fine. Did you feel that way?

I think Dr. B is someone I would date today; he looks good on paper, anyway. I think this is so beautiful, "this is the person I was THEN.. this is the person I am NOW.. it was a mistake to try and have any type of relationship with you.. and that part of it was my fault, and I take responsibility for that now." I feel that way too. I was so unstable and needy at that time; I am sure he sensed that, and I am sure ex-n sensed it in you too. I'm surprised you didn't send that to him in your TM. That says everything you need to say...it's so caring, self-focused. Had you told him you hated him when you broke up? I also think what you said about "continuing with closure" is very realistic. It never happens all at once. It's gradual. You begin to understand the why's and how's of the relationship. I honestly think closure happens when we take responsibility for our part in the relationship.

You relationship with ex-h sounds very healthy. It sounds like true love to me. I want that in my llife...I love the affection and the snuggling. I want that with one man. I want it all rolled into one--friend, lover, companion. I can see myself as that with B...that is what is hard to let go of. It was passionate but sweet and caring too. It wasn't always making out...many nights or times we were together, it was holding hands or telling jokes. Or just sitting next to each other. There is a coolness in my relationship with RS. I have poured on the passion with him, but it is still not the same. It's not the same chemistry...I always told B that I thought what we had was unique.

I haven't read it yet believe it or not! I've had it in my hand at the bookstore, but have bypassed it to buy a different title. I'll pick it up tonight.

I'm going to finish the Dr. B saga too. I'll post it on the other thread.

May 10, 2007
12:52 pm
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By the way...American Idol--I was watching too. I think Blake is TERRIBLE. It's not so much his style of singing or his talent--but he looks very wooden and his eyes seem shark-like when he's singing.

I voting for Jordin.

May 10, 2007
1:02 pm
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Hi 2b~

Only have a minute to write quick.. wanted to tell you I loved your posts. I will write more later...

To clarify.. the reason I TMed "I don't hate anymore" was this.

Superbowl sunday (back in Feb) marked one year since 'the incident' happened. I had TMed him for the first time in almost a year.. and told him that I hated him and always would. I had a few drinks in me.. (we know how that is! lol).
He TMed back (which really floored me) "don't hate, FF, you know thats not you."

So, that's why I started off today's TM with the line that I did.

May 10, 2007
7:35 pm
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OK 2b~

Now it's YOUR turn. Ex-N called me tonight. Not once, but TWICE. Thank goodness I was downstairs working out and didn't see the calls come in.. not saying I would have answered them- probably wouldn't have. In any event, his message said "why are you not afraid to TM me, but you don't answer my calls. If you want to call to say hi, just do it. Hi!"

AGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Does this fool really think that just because I said I don't 'hate anymore', the slate is wiped CLEAN?

And HELLOOOOOO, where is his little miss girlfriend when he's calling me to try and hook back up?

Ughh.. his voice... it killed me.
It always used to.. it does to this day.

So, now I'm obsessing.. and freaking OUT because I can't share this with ex-H.. he will be furious and think I WANTED THIS.. and I didnt!!! Why couldn't ex-N just leave it at "U2?"
What is his malfunction?

Now I'm torn between writing another TM to set him straight.. something like "I had to send that for ME.. it was not to initiate anything further". Or just continue ignoring the call. I will NOT call him back.
What I'm afraid of is that he will start calling more or TMing more, and I can't deal with that 2b, I just CANT. I've come so far.. I don't want to go backwards, and I don't want to make anymore mistakes when it comes to him.

Just a few weeks ago I was giving you advice when Dr. B contacted you.. now it's your turn.

Ughhhh... I didn't want this, I swear I didn't..

May 11, 2007
8:07 am
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2b~

OK- feeling MUCH better today.. sorry for the rant above. I guess the shock of hearing from him (again).. obviously he can still throw my emotions into a tailspin. I did not call.. and will not.

I will respond to your post above later this afternoon.

Hope you're doing well...
Happy Friday!

May 11, 2007
8:46 am
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Hi FF...I'm not surprised that he called you...I think he wants more info about the TM you sent; maybe he has some things to say, too.

It's hard not to fret about the contact; you still have the feelings for him--you always will. I wouldn't assume that he thinks the slate is wiped clean--you reached out to him in a kind way, and he is repsonding. He does have a point, FF. I didn't understand why Dr. B would TM or email me, but wouldn't call me.

I think this is the time to write that letter, FF. Say everything that you want to say to him. Think about what you want to say, and get it off your chest. Be honest. You have absolutely nothing to lose; you aren't doing this for him, you're doing it for you.

May 11, 2007
9:07 am
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Also--I know you probably feel differently today; but as we have learned from my situation, we can't assume anything about them. He may not be trying to hook up with you...but may have some things to say.

May 11, 2007
9:26 am
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2b~

I hear what you're saying.. (assuming). I guess I'm just going with the pattern from the past. Anytime he called, thats what it led to.

I decided not to go with a letter. I feel anymore contact on my end will drag this on. I said what I needed to say in that short TM, and I hate to sound nasty, but I really don't want to hear anything he has to say.

If I was dealing with a normal person, I would probably reach out, because a normal person might apologize, might take his part of the responsibility, might actually ask ME how I'm doing. But he is not 'normal'. He would most likely chit-chat as if nothing happened, and take the opportunity to tell me how wonderfully happy he is with his new girl, etc etc.. and it would just get me angry all over again.

Remember- in the past, anytime I was vunerable to him, I would get one of those famous 'zingers'.. and I promised myself a long time ago that I would never allow him to hurt me again.

I listed to the vm again this morning-and he actually says "why aren't you afraid of texting me, but you're afraid to answer the phone when I call you". Notice he uses the word "AFRAID". Damn right I'm afraid.. and he knows exactly why.
He scares the bejezuz out of me.

((2b))

May 11, 2007
9:58 am
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And FF...what else do you have to go on but the past? With these guys--as I have learned from my counselor--we can't assume anything about their thought (or ANYONE for that matter). We can only know how we feel. We can only know what we think.

I love the "zingers". Because that is what they are. I like to think of it as sticking a knife in our guts. I know. Graphic. We're cut even before we realized what happened.

Interesting that he uses the word afraid. That's that N mentality--that he has power over you; to instill fear in you.

I hope you don't think I was sending you down the road to harm by telling you to write a letter. You know what's best for you. This sounds like one of those times that no contact is a healthy choice. As my wise little sister told me after ex-ex and I ended it: What you don't know doesn't hurt you.

BTW: I never mentioned that I loved turnabout's link to the Generalized Anxiety Disorder site. Very, very interesting.

I'm still learning about all of this FF. I've been thinking about Dr. B (Ha EYEROLL--No surprise there!) and wondering how he's doing. Wondering WHAT he's doing. You said something to me the other day that I ALWAYS told my friend TC--"He's not going anywhere". Interesting how we say things to others and believe it wholeheartedly, but when we try to apply it to our own situations, it's difficult to see.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((feelingfreeeeeeeeeeeeee))))))))))))))))

May 11, 2007
10:02 am
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Remember when all of the drama was happening with B and TC said why don't I ask him what he wants from me? And I said, I'm afraid to ask that question...?

Well...I think the answer I gave was something like, "I'm afraid he's going to tell me he wants me back." The fear was not that I was afraid of being with him...I could want nothing more than that. It's that I was afraid that it would end again.

May 11, 2007
10:18 am
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Aw, 2b~ that last line just made me sad. Isn't that the truth? We've felt the pain of it 'ending' so many times now- we're petrified of it starting back up again.

Loved your lines
**We're cut even before we realized what happened.**

**Interesting that he uses the word afraid. That's that N mentality--that he has power over you; to instill fear in you. **

I wish you were here to hear the message.. he has this voice.. very intimidating sounding.. and he was using it for all it was worth.. stressing the word 'afraid'.. yes, he knows he USED TO have power over me.. and he knows he USED to scare me. I'm saying "USED to" lightly here, because if we're being honest (and we always ARE).. he still does. At least I recognize it and can see it clearly now.

I know you didn't mean 'send me down the path of harm'.. believe me, I was contemplating that letter. But again, since he's so NOT on the same emotional level as me, he wouldn't have 'gotten it', you know? I mean, there I'd be pouring out my deepest feelings, thoughts, painful past.. and he'd be sitting there doing the eyeroll and thinking that I was being a drama queen. LOL So- I decided to go the short and sweet, bottom-line route. Something nice and SIMPLE for him to understand. And yet, he STILL didn't 'get it'! LOL

I think how much B and my ex-N are alike in their reactions to us.. its scary. They are just not on our level 2b, and they never will be. They have such issues.. Dr. B with his fear of commitment, ex-N with his ohhh, I don't know.. 12 year old mindset (hey, they're alike that way too!). And the games.. maybe they don't see that they play them, but I'm sorry- it sure seems to me that they know exactly what they're doing.

You know whats really keeping me at bay with ex-N? Remembering the day Dr. B contacted you. I remember it like it was yesterday.. I remember being glued to your updates.. being scared right along with you.. and I was disappointed right along with you too.. with the things he was saying.. and the whole way the conversation ended. And of course- more recently- his zinger of "sorry sorry sorry, won't contact you again" (eye roll).

I've said it before- and I'll say it again. Gotta stay one step ahead of these guys. Most important thing is to protect ourselves.

May 11, 2007
12:33 pm
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OK..this may be high schoolish...but I heard Pink sing this the other night...

WHO KNEW

You took my hand
You showed me how
You promised me you'd be around
Uh huh That's right
I took your words And I believed
In everything You said to me
Yeah huh That's right

If someone said three years from now
You'd be long gone
I'd stand up and punch them out
Cause they're all wrong
I know better
Cause you said forever And ever
Who knew

Remember when we were such fools
And so convinced and just too cool
Oh no. No no
I wish I could touch you again
I wish I could still call you friend
I'd give anything

When someone said count your blessings now
'fore they're long gone
I guess I just didn't know how
I was all wrong
They knew better
Still you said forever. And ever
Who knew

I'll keep you locked in my head
Until we meet again
Until we. Until we meet again
And I won't forget you my friend
What happened

If someone said three years from now
You'd be long gone
I'd stand up and punch them out
Cause they're all wrong and
That last kiss I'll cherish
Until we meet again
And time makes It harder
I wish I could remember
But I keep Your memory
You visit me in my sleep
My darling Who knew
My darling My darling
Who knew My darling
I miss you My darling
Who knew Who knew

May 11, 2007
12:35 pm
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It's the later part of the song...the last three stanzas that got me.

May 11, 2007
12:45 pm
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The "locked in my head" part, yeah.

I heard her sing that on AI, but couldn't make out all the words. I wondered what they were.

May 11, 2007
1:05 pm
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Hey guys...

This is my new theme song!!! It's by Fergie and really hit me hard when I heard it. It's describes SO MUCH exactly how I feel right now!!!

It's called Big Girls Don't Cry...

The smell of your skin lingers on me now
You're probably on your flight back to your hometown
I need some shelter of my own protection baby
Be with myself in center, clarity, peace, serenity...

** I hope you know, I hope you know
That this has nothing to do with you
It's personal, myself and I
We got some straightening out to do
And not gonna miss you like a child misses their blanket
But I've gotta get a move on with my life
It's time to be a big girl now
And big girls don't cry
Don't cry, Dont cry, Dont cry **

The path that I'm walking, I must go alone
I must take the baby steps til I'm full grown
Fairy tales don't always have a happy ending do they
And I forseek the dark ahead if I stay

I hope you know, I hope you know
That this has nothing to do with you
It's personal, myself and I
We got some straightening out to do
And not gonna miss you like a child misses their blanket
But I've gotta get a move on with my life
It's time to be a big girl now
And big girls don't cry
Don't cry, Dont cry, Dont cry

Like a little school mate in the school yard
We'll play jacks and uno cards
I'll be your best friend
And you'll be my valentine
Yes you can hold my hand if you want to
Cuz I wanna hold yours too
We'll be playmates and lovers and share our secret worlds
But it's time for me to go home
It's getting late, dark outside
I need to be with myself in center, clarity, peace, serenity...

** I hope you know, I hope you know
That this has nothing to do with you
It's personal, myself and I
We got some straightening out to do
And not gonna miss you like a child misses their blanket
But I've gotta get a move on with my life
It's time to be a big girl now
And big girls don't cry **
Don't cry, Dont cry, Dont cry
da da da da da da

May 11, 2007
1:41 pm
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2bstrong
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Hi turn...hi TC...Sometimes the emotions are high, and you hear a song and it seems to say everything you're feeling.

I haven't heard this fergie song, but I love this line:

...it's time for me to go home It's getting late, dark outside I need to be with myself in center, clarity, peace, serenity...

I'll find it on i-tunes. All of us going through this...it's amazing.

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