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Family - the ties that bind (and gag)
November 4, 2003
4:04 am
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Zinnie
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For the last few years, I thought I had a really good relationship with one of my sister-in-laws, as well as my brother.

Two weeks ago, my brother calls me and tells me they have had a huge fight, and he wants a divorce. They are now doing the "you said, but you did or didn't do" and the "well, if you do this, then I can do that" and "you are not allowed to see this person, that person, and this person" - you know the drill.

Well, she proceeded to tell not only him, but almost every other member in my immediate family things that I had said to her in what I thought was complete confidence. So, then I get the phone call and he (and others) are upset. Generally, I won't say anything behind anyone's back, I will tell them directly to their face. Really, for the most part what they are all angry about are things that I have in fact already told them at one time or another, however she exaggerated the story, or added to it, or mis-construed what I had said.

Some of what she relayed back to my brother, I really feel like I need to sit down and discuss these things one on one with him. To the point of I actually thought of flying back out to CA and not only talking to him, but the other family members as well. Also, in turn telling her "look, I will give you the respect as my brother's wife, but that is it. I will no longer entrust any confidence or personal information to you ever again."

We had a death in the family, so right now they are in NM, and I was supposed to be there on Wednesday as well. Due to changes at work, I cannot make the funeral, as a matter of fact I won't be in Albuq until about 3:00 in the afternoon, and the funeral is in the morning. So, I called him today and said "we are getting in at about 3:00, and I think we need to talk this out, the three of us." He replies by dancing around the issue "well, I borrowed a truck and I need to return it, and there will be food after the funeral, and we are flying out at 7:00 the next morning and I will probably be too busy returning the truck and too full from eating because I have already over eaten; and I think maybe she and I will just take a nice leisurely trip to Dallas after the first of the year."

I'm so angry I cannot even speak. I said, well if you cannot make time for me after I have driven all that way, then that is that, I will go ahead and cancel our trip, and I really think if YOU want to come to Dallas that is fine, but I'm not willing to have her in my home right now." I mean, this is MY home right? I have that right if I want. So then he says well, I will just call you when I get back to CA and we can talk then. I said, if you want, just don't expect a call back. I'm tired of this.

I feel that when it comes to my family for the last 40 years I am always the one to make a compromise. I have been feeling this way for a while. I talked frankly last night with my husband about this (before my conversation with my brother), and I told him that for the first time in 40 years I don't wake up each and every day fretting over something. He asked what I meant, and I told him that because he is so even keeled, I just know what to expect, not everything has to be a drama each and every day.

There is even a part of me that thinks "o.k., just call their house, and say look as you could not and would not make any time for me, I no longer feel obligated to make time for you, so please don't call, send your silly cards or e-mails to me. You see, my time is of great value too, and I can choose whom I want to spend it on and with."

This happening has really caused a very very large rift between me and my entire family.

Am I wrong for feeling this way?

Zinnie

November 4, 2003
3:17 pm
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gingerleigh
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Nope, not wrong at all. How you feel is how you feel. (For what it's worth, I'd be pissed too...) Stuff happened and your reaction to it is to feel this way. Period, no "right" or "wrong" about it. What you choose to do with those feelings is the next thing to tackle though. Do you need to confront them? Do you need to have your say? Or do you just need to decide on a plan of action, like not reading their emails, or engaging them in phone calls or letter-writing? Do you want to win the argument, or just be free of them (or just a select person or two)?

Backbiting and gossiping happens in a lot of families, I think it's probably more the norm than the exception. And it SUCKS. But it isn't that way in "your" family, you and your husband don't engage in that. So maybe continue to take advantage of their distance from you, and that distance gives you some distinct advantages in choosing your reaction to your emotional distress.

*hug* Zinnie

November 4, 2003
3:40 pm
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Ladeska
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Been there, done this one. Sometimes, Z, it's just time to kick it to the curb, ya know? Regardless of who gets it and who doesn't. Talk to whoever you want to and tell them what you need to but do it ALL because it's what's good for YOU for a change. I think the gears are rolling inside you right now regarding things like this not being okay in your book anymore because of what you've just went through and are coming out of with your cousin. So just continue the process and also know that - you really don't owe anyone a real big reason or an explanation that will make "them" feel better. I'm sorry but I think "load Zinnie up times" are just about UP folks! And hell, if that makes you a bitch in their eyes are in anyone else's - wear it proud, baby! Wear it proud!

November 4, 2003
7:41 pm
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Zinnie
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I think what is happening to me is that due to my dealings with my cousin and the rest of the crazy family, I have taken stock of a lot of different areas of my life.

I'm finding that somewhere along the line, there was a reason why I did not move back to CA after my husband passed away. I came to TX instead, through a job.

There are times when I wish I had stayed in Canada - usually in August with 109 degree weather, but I'm happy here and underlying all of that I have come to realize in the last few years there were various reason's that I did not move back to CA.

I"m finding myself more and more less willing to continously do things to keep everyone else happy. When I have hurt feelings, if acceptable, than I let the person know and why. Some folks are not enjoying this change.

Z.

November 4, 2003
9:10 pm
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Ladeska
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Well, that's just too damned bad that they aren't enjoying the process, Zinnie. They can just deal with it like you've been dealing with their crap for long enough now. THEY are responsible for their actions, their feelings, their wrong decisions in life, etc., etc., etc. And nowhere is it written by all that is good and holy and right that YOU should go around fixing it for them or making it feel better. That actually isn't doing them any favors or loving them one bit, it's enabling them and keeping them from their own due process and keeping them able to victimize others. Time to let it all go undone, Zinnie. Whatever help they can get in this life is and was and always will be available to them, just like it is to you or anyone else IF they truly want to help themselves and if they do - they sure as hell won't be dragging you through the mud doing it. So let them flounder, go off into insanity or blow a gasket because you are not their wonder woman anymore and all I say is - I'll drink to that!!!

November 4, 2003
11:16 pm
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gingerleigh
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Yah, you go, Ladeska! Good stuff!

November 5, 2003
5:04 am
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Zinnie
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Right now there seems to be lots of mud slinging on from all parts of my family.

So... as I have said, I think at this point, I'm going to happily stay here and work on me, and what it is that I want to do.

I want to spend more quality time with my husband. I want to spend the holidays with the kids and their Mom, who I consider one of my very best friends. I want to go back to school.
I want to paint my hallway because I have all of these marks from the little red LOUD

November 5, 2003
5:08 am
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Zinnie
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Right now there seems to be lots of mud slinging on from all parts of my family.

So... as I have said, I think at this point, I'm going to happily stay here and work on me, and what it is that I want to do. If they want to talk to me, at least in the here and now, they will have to call me.

I want to spend more quality time with my husband. I want to spend the holidays with the kids and their Mom, who I consider one of my very best friends. I want to go back to school.
I want to paint my hallway because I have all of these marks from the little red LOUD dog's ball bouncing around. So, maybe some kind of paint that is wash-n-wear? If anyone makes such a stuff.

So for today, instead of driving like a mad woman, or buying a $350.00 plane fare, a rental car, etc... I think I will sleep in, and go get a manicure and pedicure! Come home and make a nice dinner for my husband who I have not talked to except via cell phone for the last five days.

Love,

Zinnie

November 5, 2003
1:39 pm
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Ladeska
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Thanks Ginger! I just get so bowled over sometimes with anger when it comes to things like this, especially when it's someone like Zinnie! Just see RED!

AWESOME, Zinnie!!! That is precisely WHAT you should be doing, concerned about and your whole world. Whatever else comes into it that does not flow harmoniously with what you've got going on - gets the boot to the door!! Agreed?

November 5, 2003
6:22 pm
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arwen
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Dear Zinnie,

I like to follow your posts because I sense so much goodness and patience in you. I think you have gone above and beyond for your family and other people you love. I respect your open process of boundary setting, and that you have the inner strength and confidence to act on what you believe is right. It is so hard to do that with family.

I haven't ever been married, but I feel lots of times like there are certain members of my family, or aspects of them that I would like to "divorce". I think because of my own lack of confidence, and (selfishly) because I often need their help during hard times, I pay a price with my dignity. It gets expensive, and I believe I tend to make it this way through a lot of my negative behaviors.

So, when I read about what you are going through, the choices you are making, and the path you take toward your decisions, I feel a little bit hopeful that I might learn from people with a little more wisdom and a lot more self-discipline...

You are right to set the boundaries you are setting. It feels good to see someone who loves themselves the way they deserve to be loved.

Respectfully,

Arwen

November 6, 2003
1:39 am
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Zinnie
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Hi All,

Thank you for your support.

I did NOT go get my pedi and mani or cook dinner. Instead I slept, but as I started coughing again, allergies here are AWFUL - so I enjoyed my day.

When my husband came home this evening I was just waking up. He did his work out and all, then ran up and got burgers for us so I would not have to cook.

So, I'm here catching up some, going to read a while, then go back to bed. Tomorrow, is for ME.

Arwen, thank you for your post. I don't know about self love on my part? But, at least I'm not feeling so walked on right now by others.

Love,

Zinnie

November 6, 2003
6:04 pm
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Ladeska
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GOOD for YOU, Zinnie!! Burgers? Good food! You resting and not doing anything else - good medicine.

Self love? Well, you never really even get to that door until you......turn down the noise.....and all you've been having is NOISE, Zin. Where is that music? Where is that one violin that's playing and getting muffled out and coming from your heart - actually - for YOU to enjoy and appreciate? See, you don't even know because you haven't been able to hear it....*Hugs*

November 9, 2003
2:57 am
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Zinnie
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Ladeska,

You are right. I remember one day about two years ago I guess it was. I had gone to get my hair cut, and then thought I would do a little shopping. I wandered around the mall for about three hours - which for me is very unusual. I believe I bought a bottle of lotion and a book.

When I came home, my husband says all of your relatives in NM have been calling non-stop all day. I told him what I had done. I also said you know what? It was so nice not to have to listen to conspiracy theory's, and crying and whining.

He understood.

November 9, 2003
11:54 am
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Ladeska
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Good Zinnie!! You have to turn all that off and just allow it no access to you and if they don't like it - too damned bad! You're R & R is hugely important here and if you just wander around and browse and enjoy yourself - sobeit! You owe these people no apology for not being accessible to them. They aren't going to like the "new you", Zinnie but again, too bad. It's high time the tables got turned right around here. Time for Zinnie's energies to be turned back around to focus on your wellbeing and those who really do love you and need you.

You have to really check yourself from now on and go - what do I have available here to give out and if the answer comes up - YOU guys want 110% and I only have 10% to even use for myself - then GUESS WHAT guys? You ain't getting squat from me whether you like it or not. Time to cut the umbilical chord here of Zinnie taking it all and bearing everyone else's grief and even listening to their B.S. THAT is toxic as well to you. You have to be very, very careful what you let your ears even Hear.

I remember years ago, living back on the east coast and trying one last time to really have a decent relationship with my mother that was balanced and healthy and it was a disaster. But I was alot more square about things when I moved back for two years. I had boundaries and I used them. She'd call and go into her littany of "it's all about me" you have to sit and listen nonsense and I'd just cut her off after about ten minutes of that and go - you know, I have some food on cooking, got to go tend to it so will talk to you later! Her M.O. was - she never really wanted to truely know how I was....she just wanted to whine and complain and be "all about me" and wind me up and trash me emotionally and then she felt all better after about an hour on the phone. I just got to where I wouldn't let her go there. I had govenors on how much time I would even cycle in all that. I cut her right off and no, she didn't like it but - that was just too bad.

I remember walking into her house and realizing how things had always gone in the past... I'd walk in, she'd say Hi, ask me "how I was?" and I'd start telling her...she'd all of a sudden talk to her husband, completely interrupt me, give him orders about something like preparing dinner or whatever, would never pick back up and go - go ahead, what were you saying...and I just got to where I'd "stop" and just sit there. I wouldn't go - so ANYWAYS, as I was saying...and continue like I used to do when I lived there before. I just let it hang right where it was and after a few minutes, I'd just get up and leave and go outside or downstairs or whatever and basically give her the back of my head like she just gave me. But it helped for me to do things like this because I wasn't all codependent with her, I didn't really need her anymore and I could see that in myself. I just was very aware of what she was doing and how self-serving and narcissitic she was all the time. But if she didn't equally really give and take with me, I just withdrew my company and cut her off as well.

This kind of behavior in me - really infuriated the hell right out of her because I didn't have my hand out to her anymore and I wouldn't take her crap either. She would notice now and then what I did and go - so what were you trying to tell me before and I'd just go - it was nothing, don't want to talk about really. And she just look at me with these glaring eyes of someone who just lost control. I loved it.

I just really saw up close and personal during those two years that - she really had nothing to give to me. It wasn't in her. She didn't raise me, btw. Her and my father busted up when I was 1 1/2, so I tried to reconnect with her when I was 25 and have some kind of family with them. But, it just never worked. She was way too guilty inside herself for alot of stuff in reference to me that - all she was really concerned about was - making me need her someway so that she could expunge her own guilt of yesterday. I wasn't interested in making her pay for anything. My father was an asshole but - what I really didn't know was - who SHE really was as well. I wanted to take her in, bring her close to me without really seeing - what her character was all about and whether or not - she really connected with me as a daughter. She didn't. That was long gone. It was more about making ME the bad guy if at all possible and making herself look good. Um, no thanks. Been the scapegoat enough in my life, you can have that pony ride.

But it was funny to just watch her get more and more frustrated that I didn't dance with her anymore. I just really didn't care. Apathy was setting in really bad. And when that happened, she lost all control because I wanted nothing from her and most of all - I didn't want her lies, her good intentions, her B.S. story of how "she really loved me". She didn't. That was plain to see. I read actions these days - not words.

So you just take care of YOU, Zinnie and do more of not being accessible. When they see that they can't get whatever from you anymore, they will go be parasitic to someone else where they can get what they want. And who gives a flying flip what they say about you? I mean really. That only reveals their own character and it's about time they just freaking showed themselves for what they are if they go there. If that's who they are and what they are about - who needs em?

You certainly don't! Just very proud of you, sweetheart! You're really taking control of your life these days and really letting your husband do his thing, too, in reference to numb nuts in prison. Cry me a river, Dude that Zinnie isn't there at your beck and call. Get freaking used to it! Game over.

November 9, 2003
12:28 pm
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LindyLouWho
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The title really drew me to this one. My father is or I should say was a minister for the last 15 years. We did A LOT of moving around! My family Mother, Father, 3 sisters and myself were each others world. Looking back on everything is seemed to be a nice cozy family to everyone else on the outside.
To be honest though it was suffocating! We didn't talk about anything, anger and guilt were big feelings running rampant in the family. There were always lots of lies to each other and ourselves.
I have been out of their home for about 5 years now but they still have their claws in me and it seems my husband also.
I can't seem to be around them for to long because I can see all the problems since I have gotten out and away. Some how though they drag me back down and I wind up worrying, fretting, and being down right pissy about the situations they put me in.
After rambling on about my problem, I really just wanted to say that you all have offered me some hope in cutting the ties that bind and gag, lol. I am just starting on my journey to being a better person and ever little bit is helping me!

LindyLouWho

November 10, 2003
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Ladeska
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Hi Lindy! Glad to see you here and starting to do some good things in your life. So I guess it would be a fair assessment to say that passive aggressive behavior ran rampant in your household, huh? Meaning...that everyone kind of sideswipped each other with hidden meanings in everything. Never really addressing the problem, or being honest, or really validating each other, just putting on the face for the outside world and basically leading a very unhealthy existence within the family unit, behind closed doors. Ah yes, home sweet home. Not.

Well, you can't do alot about what's past, but you can untangle yourself from what's happening now. Of course, you'll have to fight alot of programming in your own head to do so and that's not easy. You'll keep hearing the "how bad you are" tape - if you dare and come against the "old ways". Yea whatever. If it's making you miserable - it's gotta go and anyone with it that doesn't want to act responsibly and healthy. Life is just too damned short, ya know?

One thing I used to always say when I was kicking people to the curb in my life and trying to establish boundaries was - And so...what's the worst that can really happen here because someone "gets mad at me" because they don't like it when I say ENOUGH ALREADY? I mean what? You're not going to speak to me anymore? Call me bad names? Not approve of me? Get together in a nasty little group and make me the outcast? Oh bummer. Well maybe the real deal is - I don't choose you or your bullshit! How's that one?

No, no, people don't like to be confronted, held accountable, be given boundaries or be told - you can't kick me anymore, don't like it. But......that is their problem, isn't it? I mean you can leave them with it and bar your doors, turn on your answering machine and hold rigidly to the way you will NOW live your life and they will do - whatever.

We really won't shrivel up and die from their lack of whatever it is they have been giving us. I mean - if it's been alot of pain - couldn't we live very well without it?

And couldn't we just once say that - whatever they think, or whatever judgement call THEY make, might not be agreeable and okay with US and it's valid? The world really won't end as we know it if we do this. But they will get ANGRY with us! They will withdraw their love and their approval! Hm,m,m....did we ever really have it in the first place, or did that damned carrot just keep moving and we never arrived?

At some point, critical choices have to be made in our life - to effect change that is good for us. Doesn't feel good, even if we are uprooting what's unhealthy. It's life shattering because even in our poison, we find comfort. Comfort in that way though, can be deadly, life consuming and oh so dark.

But just because we are born into a situation, born into a group of people who are dysfunctional and not good for us - doesn't mean we have to stay put or allow some things to continue and be okay with us. That thing of "we have no rights" is just plain and utter crap. We have plenty of rights, we just don't exercise them because we are afraid the group will get us! Well....the group had been getting us for far too long. Time to turn around and say - knock it the hell OFF and I MEAN IT!!! And I really don't care if you like it, understand it, agree with it or whatever. I said STOP and that's that. If you don't, then consequences will ensue.

It's really "that simple". We just make it complicated because somehow we care what someone thinks we has repeatedly overran our personal boundaries, given us nothing but continued negativity and called it - good stuff and railroaded us every time we tried to stand on our own.

After awhile, the handwriting is pretty much on the wall and needs to be recognized by us. It's not working, I don't like it, feels like crap, it is crap and I'm going to do something about it.

Pretense is just another word for lying. And when people live their lies lying - nothing good comes from it. And the longer we hold hands with that and don't expose it and pull away from it, the more guilty we are of being a part of it and agreeing by lack of action.

I'm glad you are where you are right now, as uncomfortable as it may be. Pain is necessary sometimes, in order for growth to happen. A sight better kind of pain than just stuffing everything and putting on a happy face, eh?

Good for you!! I'm glad that we could help! Time to live your life by being accountable to yourself and your own wellbeing. Cheers!! Bravo and keep it up!! If we can help further, please write and we'll see what we can do!

November 10, 2003
1:56 pm
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Well I went to therapy with my husband today, and I really like the therapist alot. We spoke some about the background that I come from and Ladeska you summed it up almost exactly like she did. My whole life it has been so two faced.

Now that I am on my own and married apparently it is still no different. I thought alot of my marriage problems were my husbands fault. Turns out though that we both have pretty equal problems to deal with and are going to have to meet in the middle somewhere. She gave us some communication exercises to do and they seem to be working out well for us so far TODAY!!!

To be honest I was the one who pushed for therapy for him, and it turns out that it is going to be good for me as well. I really hope deep down that he is as dedicated to changing himself and this marriage as I am.

Any one read the book Co-Dependent no more??? Therapist reccommended it for us to read.

Also any ideas on how not to get sucked back in when we are with the family for long periods of time, you know like longer than an hour or two, hahaha!!!

You had some terrific advice and info for me Ladeska, I even read it to my husband and he loved it!

Thanks,
Lindy

November 10, 2003
1:59 pm
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bel
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I dont like my sons wife/girlfriend...she makes me gag and makes me mad!

November 10, 2003
2:39 pm
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Ladeska
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Hey Lindy! Well GOOD for you guys!! And tell him - way to GO Dude!!! Most Excellent. Actually, you guys should see this comedian who travels around doing the Cave Man show about how men see things and how they communicate. Pretty hysterical. Make you pee yourself. But alot of it is - the way we process things, communicate, etc. Another good book is - Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars. It's simple, direct and pretty funny.

As far as how can you not get roped in with the family - um, I'd actually put pre-determined brakes on the time you spend with them. Something that is decided "before you go". We are only staying an hour and that's it. And if something gets going before the hour - you just have a signal to the other person like - rubbing your nose or putting your hand in the air that says - we are out of here - right now. You can even have a pre-determined reason already made for exit purposes. Gotta do this or that, whatever, but gotta run.

Basically, too, you just learn to say NO and not feel like you have to give this longwinded explanation of why? You learn to let the silence hang... If they say WELL!!! So why won't you do such and such!! You just go - because I said no. And then you just sit there. If they go off on you or whatever - and demand an explanation you simply say - me saying No, is enough reason. If they continue - you say - and if you are going to disrespect me, then you will get dead air and you hang up on them.

You have to really be aware of what you do and how things go down.....how do you get going down the slippery slope of way over the limit. You and your husband need to sit down and think about this and talk about it. Where are the lines in the sand that both of you walk right over and miss when it comes to family? Where are those places that you should have stopped at and why didn't you?

You have to be willing to face control freaks and bullies, too. When it's family - it's not fun, but you have to be absolutely together on this and be ready to put up the walls and enforce them rigidly. They won't like it but that's just too damned bad. Last time you checked - it was your life, right?

Just because you don't dance to a certain tune - doesn't make you wrong or bad. It means you are reponsible for your wellbeing and your own life, period, end of story. And what is demanded by you more than anything - needs to be RESPECT, from each other as mates and from the family as far as respecting your boundaries. If that doesn't happen, then you withdraw you're being around them, you limit it. You pull back, you have "consequence" and you don't go play nice-nice when someone wants to just smooth it over without taking responsibility for things either. If you're going to live a life of integrity - you have to let people know what you expect from them. I know all about how things get all snowed over and someone buys you something or does something for you you never asked them to do and they play all "martyr" over it and then think that - whatever it was they just did for you that was SO NICE of them and so self-sacrificing - should all of a sudden wipe clean.....the crap they just did. Um No....you go right back and hold their nose right in it. And say - thanks for whatever you just did, that was that and this is THIS. And....you may very well hit a Y in the road where certain people just cannot tolerate being tagged about things. Oh well. You have to be willing though to see this and to deal with it - if it happens.

So sit down with each other and talk about the times when things get way out of hand with the family and maybe even write it all down and keep it on the computer or whatever so you can really see what happened and take it into the therapist. Where do you lose control? Where do they start really walking all over you? Where is the mark and the flag that should trigger you to just step back and go No, not going there, that's enough.

November 11, 2003
4:30 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi Everyone,

Welcome Lindy.

Lindy, if it makes you feel better, when I first married my husband his family and I had major issues. We worked them out, and sometimes that means he might go to one of his family functions by himself, or if he really wants me to go, I will, but I have a time frame. He understands that and respects it as well.

I have come to realize, in my family I am the "fixer" - to everyone. I am the middle child, so when stuff happens for whatever reason they all come running to me to take care of it.

Ironically, my husbands family see's him in the same light. Whenever anything happens, it is up to him to fix.

One day, I was at my counselors and discussing a situation. She make an interesting observation. She said: "the biggest reason you two get along as well as you do, and have the stuff to have a long and happy marriage is because somewhere along the way you see a mirror image of yourself."

The good thing for me is that when I have to deal with my family, he will support me and my choices. If he feels I'm making a bad one, he will let me know. Sometimes I take is advice, sometimes I don't. He has never come back and said "well, I told you." For that I'm happy.

Right now I'm dealing with my Dad's family, who I wish would fall off the face to the Earth, and my brother and his wife are trying to drag me into their quagmire; for the first time I'm not letting anyone do that. So, in the interium some of my other brothers and my sister are mad at me. Well, I cannot control how they feel, I know that now. I would never do or say anything intentionally to hurt someone, so therefore I don't need to listen to it either.

Love,

Zinnie

November 11, 2003
4:43 pm
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Ladeska
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SOO glad to see this post, Zinnie! Bravo! You've grown so much!! And you know - I'm sure you sit there and think about all the times that you've felt the pressure to "go fix" and be responsible for someone's bad feelings about your boundaries or whatever. Just that nervous twitching inside that just can't stand for someone to be mad at you or whatever. But like you say - they are responsible for their feelings and if by you - having boundaries - makes them mad - then they can just get over it or get lost. Glad to see you resisting temptation here and just not touching the golden egg, pulling back and going NO, who I am, my worth, my life, my wellbeing is not about - what THEY feel or what they think. It's about what I THINK and FEEL and THAT is important here, first priority, too. To thine own self be true. People wonder why they are not happy in their lives. Well for one - because you're not true to yourself and your very fiber is crying out and protesting - "Don't get bitching around to everyone when YOU are the one abusing ME". That's what the little inner voice is really saying to you.

You're listening to that now. You're going it's not okay for me to be the lamb of sacrifice. No. 1 - you guys are big boys and girls - grow up, I had to.

No. 2 - I don't enjoy being sacrificed, isn't fun. Next person that tries to take me there - gets a painful quick reaction.

We need to get approval......from ourselves. Then we don't have to earn it from everyone else.

November 11, 2003
4:49 pm
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Zinnie
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In talking last night with my husband, something he said also made things click more for me.

He said:

"You need to quit worrying about what everyone else does or says. Frankly, I don't care. If it affects me personally or you as my wife and the marriage we have together then I care. Other than that, I don't."

Yet, everyone see's him as such a nice person, and he is. But, he does not let anyone else run or ruin his feelings.

I have a Dr. appt tomorrow, I think some of my medications are off.

Love,

Zinnie

November 11, 2003
5:25 pm
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bel
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Sorry I butted in this thread....

November 11, 2003
6:28 pm
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Ladeska
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Bel....you didn't butt in this thread! I looked back at your comment about your son's wife/girlfriend and I thought you'd say something else. Wasn't ignoring you at all just waiting for you to say more about it, that's all. Don't feel like you butted in, not at all. We're just gabbing as usual.

How is your situation nowadays anyways? I just want you to get out on your own as soon as possible. Is that getting closer?

Zinnie.....the comment that kinda struck me here was you saying that everyone sees your husband as a nice person......in contrast to the other things you just said about him tells me that you still have some issues surrounding being seen as "bad" if you have boundaries. (smile) He still is a nice person.....AND.......he has boundaries. People who use and abuse - don't like for their narcissistic supply to have boundaries or for them to get wise and acquire them. But people like this either have to learn to deal with it or get out of your life. One of the two. It's real simple.

And I wouldn't sweat these guys being mad at you or him because frankly - it's like "THANK YOU" for showing us - who you really are! Thanks so much! Valuable information.

You only need to give - as you have energy to give. And you have to check that supply constantly. If you have some spare energy to give out to people that you know you won't get anything back from, just from the kindness of your heart sort of thing, to help them on their way - fine, good and all that. But in a relationship where it should be give and take, share and share alike - respect and boundaries and the two-way street has to be there and it has to remain there. Otherwise, you're being a very unwise steward of your own life, talents and energy. You have priorities that you give the most energy to. After that - if you have any left over you just want to burn somewhere, knowing you'll never see it back again - then fine. Go for it. But the way it's been for you - is all backwards. Thus the reason you've finally hit a brick wall and crashed and burned.

I think we are taught this kind of stuff in our religious circles and frankly it just bugs the hell right out of me. I mean it's great teachings for psychopaths to thrive in. Teach the little people to give, give, give until they have no more to give and then we'll sit up on our regal robes and rack in the gold. God will then love you....deem you "maybe" worthy of the kingdom but you do know - you have to run faster, work harder and give even MORE than you did yesterday. And then, I don't know....God may still not be pleased with you. Oh HORSE HOCKEY already!!! God has nothing to do with all that. But man does. Some very clever men actually, who got their hands into the pie early, saw a good thing with all the religious stuff and knew this was a way alot of people could become reach and powerful at great cost to - the little people.

For one, if you don't take care of yourself and your family - you're not going to really be much good to anyone else. And I think God would be amiss if He taught us to walk contrary to all that. Also being wise as a serpent and gentle as a dove - has great meaning. Which is exactly what you are learning now, Zinnie. But for some reason, we're taught that to say NO, isn't Godly. We should just bend over and give, give, give. Just like the thing of well, I'm forgiven now by God, so you can't hold me accountable for anything. I have carte blanche now. God loves me, so I'm a Priviledged Character. Actually, becoming more spiritual or more enlightened or whatever requires that.......you become more wise, responsible, accountable, self-aware, self-controlled and humble. It's an old con artist trick though. Old as time itself. People are just real gullible about it all. They like to be entertained, conned and led around by the nose with this showy characters running the show, emptying their pockets and basically laughing at how easy it all is.

So you just don't worry so much about what people think anymore either, Zinnie. Time worry about what you and your husband think and the world can either like it or lump it, eh? It's not like you're turning into axe murderers because you have limits and boundaries, right?

November 11, 2003
8:37 pm
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Hi,

Will write more later.

Bel, why do you feel like you "butted in" - NEVER, not at all.

If you don't like your daughter-in-law, by all means, use the thread to talk, vent or understand. That is why we are all here.

I named this thread that for many reasons. So many of us get caught up in this "well, we HAVE TO because they are family!" You don't like your Daughter-in-Law? Why? If she has done something to you, or you do not like the way she is treating your son or others in your family, you certainly have that right. Yet, society DEMANDS that you be nice and like even love her right?

Just wondering as honestly I would like your input. My Mother-in-Law did not have a problem with me until about a week before we got married she found out (I was not hiding this fact, and for the life of me, what did she think of my maiden name?) that I was Hispanic. I have tried everything I can in the world to make this woman like me.

Does she?

No. Does it bother me? Sometimes, but not much any more. She is sick, and in a nursing home. If she needs something and calls here because she needs my husband to go get it, if he is not home I will do it, and do so gladly. Ultimately she is my husbands Mom. But... by the same token, when she starts slinging her sh**, you better believe I just tell her "have a nice day" and leave. You want to know what put it into perspective for me? My husband, her own son. His exact words "my own Mother does not like me, she is a bitch and there is no pleasing her."

But, by all means do not feel you butted in. I'm hurt that you would even feel that way.

So from the unwanted Daughter-in-Law to a probably very nice "Mother-in-Law" a great big

((((((((((((((BEL)))))))))))))) hug!

Love,

Zinnie

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