Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_TopicIcon
Ego and what it does to and for us
June 9, 2000
10:57 pm
Avatar
janes
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Personally ... while I like the song I think the thoery of "frreedom...nothing left to lose.." leaves a bit to be desired.

Freedom...comes from within. You can be trapped in your life and still find a way to be free..in some manner.

Knowledge may set us free but also gives us more responsibility to use that knowledge wisely.

June 10, 2000
7:11 pm
Avatar
Spirit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Okay, okay. There are many theories, and yes, knowledge must be used responsibly. But can't our egos lead us into the same situations, time and again? Isn't it the ego that makes us defend ourselves, even if we know we are wrong? I do believe that the ego can and does serve a positive purpose, that of making us care about how we present ourselves to the world, and pushes us to strive towards the finish line. But I also believe that the ego can be a negative force, not allowing us to really listen and learn, because ego says we already know this or that. See how confusing this is for me??? Please, give me peace, ego...

June 10, 2000
7:11 pm
Avatar
Spirit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Okay, okay. There are many theories, and yes, knowledge must be used responsibly. But can't our egos lead us into the same situations, time and again? Isn't it the ego that makes us defend ourselves, even if we know we are wrong? I do believe that the ego can and does serve a positive purpose, that of making us care about how we present ourselves to the world, and pushes us to strive towards the finish line. But I also believe that the ego can be a negative force, not allowing us to really listen and learn, because ego says we already know this or that. See how confusing this is for me??? Please, give me peace, ego...

June 10, 2000
7:30 pm
Avatar
Isabella_sg
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Spirit. I'm sure you have heard this before but here goes again... I have read your feedback on various topics and am quite interested in your comments in my thread titled "Affairs". Your words are comforting and it seems that I need such. Anyone else's comments would also be greatly appreciated.

June 12, 2000
8:37 am
Avatar
site coordinator
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

test

June 12, 2000
11:41 am
Avatar
Cici
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

You can't make valuative judegements on an idea that can't be defined. "Ego" is a word invented by Freud, although I think it's derrived from a Greek word.

You are talking about social identity theory.

June 12, 2000
6:09 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

All.

Cici said, "Freud said ego is an agency postulated to help the individual satisfy basic, primitive, id urges in way deemed appropriate by society."

Indeed, Freud saw the 'Ego' as the arbiter between the needs of the 'Id' and the dictates of the' SuperEgo' - the SuperEgo being parental messages programmed into our memory about what we should or should not do in order to be acceptable to those around us.

I see the ego as that sense of self as a 'separated being' that lurks in both our emotional and contextual memory banks. It is that which evolutional time has created to ensure that both the individual and the species survive.

When we start to evaluate the ego in terms of good and bad we have a major problem. What criteria do we use against which to judge? The Bible, the Bhagavard Gita, The Origin of the Species, the Upanishads, what? In the end it is a very subjective judgement as to what criteria to use.

From my standpoint, most people seem to choose to do what makes them 'feel good' about themselves. I suspect that the ego is hellbent on making us feel good. That does entail a balancing act between satisfying both our natural or un-natural desires(Id) and the dictates of our so-called 'conscience' (Super-ego).

But does the 'ego self' really exist outside of this evolutionally derived biological process that I call my body? I suspect not. I suspect that the word 'ego' was intended by Freud to model the process by which cognitive internal conflicts and painful emotional memory arousals are resolved. I see 'ego' more as our illusory awareness of our separation from all other. For me, 'ego' is is a perception - that there is a separate self called 'me' .

June 12, 2000
10:28 pm
Avatar
Spirit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Tez: Very interesting. I'll have to reread it again, once I've rested my tired brain. ?? What are your perceptions on an "over inflated ego?" I've heard the term, many times, some even related to me, but I don't really understand what it means. I'm trying to find that peaceful coexistance between ego and me...

June 13, 2000
1:28 am
Avatar
tylos
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

ego= self = I = identity = psych

June 13, 2000
11:50 am
Avatar
Cici
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Tez is right, making valuative judgements on this ideailzed construct, "ego" is kind of like judging the ocean. How can you? It's constant, continuous, and defintely unavoidable as you travel across the planet.

I tend to lean more towards Jungin this arena. Ego is responsible for our feelings of identity and continuity, and the problem comes when the identity that we think we project to society is at odds with the identity that we truely have. See? The power of illusion...deluding ourselves.

June 13, 2000
6:51 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Spirit.

You asked, "What are your perceptions on an 'over inflated ego?'"

A very good question. I perceive that 'ego inflation' in the sense that you use it, is just one way some people compensate for a deep sense of inadequacy. I dare not use the dreaded words 'low self-esteem' for fear of causing a diversion from the focus of this thread.

Arrogance and gross egotism is, as I see it, a cover up for deep seated insecurities emanating from childhood.

I perceive a humble person as one who recognises the truth about his/her attributes, both desirable and undesirable;'I am that which I am'. A person, who runs around saying 'look how terrible and unworthy to live, I am', is not humble in my opinion. In my opinion, it is the other side of the same compensatory 'coin' of 'ego inflation'.

In my view, an exaggerated sense of ones own importance or unimportance in the scheme of things are both attributes of an inflated ego. Some people tend to bounce between the two states. Both states demand an egocentric focus on 'self'. 'Me, me, me, me, look at me, take notice of me ... look how good (or bad) I am' is an over-inflated ego demand.

To be absolutely 'egoless' would, if it were possible, entail having reached a Buddha like state of enlightenment. I doubt that many reach such a state. I'm on shaky ground here. 🙂 Such a person would know no boundaries between themselves and the universe. They would probably be classed as 'insane' by the lawyers. I suspect that Meyer Baba cherished the mad 'Masts' in India for this reason. This is not to imply that such an 'egoless' person would lack sensitivity for the 'ego' needs of others. Such a person would be filled with compassion for the painful ignorance caused by the 'ego'.

I do not perceive 'ego' as a 'bad thing'. It is necessary to create the drama as we know it here on earth. Pleasure/pain and joy/sorrow are part of that drama. If we were all egoless, the drama of life would lack diversity. Viva la difference!

June 13, 2000
6:55 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Cici.

Well said!!

June 13, 2000
7:10 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Tylos

You said with mathematical precision, "ego= self = I = identity = psych"

Where do you see the boundaries of your 'self' terminating? At your skin? Do you see your possessions as part of your 'self'?

What is you understanding of the abreviated word, 'psych'. Mind? Cognitions? Emotions? Brain? Are all these encompassed within your 'self' or are they your whole 'self'.

Is your leg part of your 'self'? If so, if it were removed, would your 'self' be diminished? Taken to a future fantasy extreme, if your brain were removed and kept alive in a bottle of fluid, where would you consider your self's boundaries to lie then?

June 13, 2000
9:21 pm
Avatar
Frieda
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Isn't it truth and not knowledge that sets us free? If we can't define ego, how about truth?

June 14, 2000
10:15 am
Avatar
Cici
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

There's no such thing as absolute truth. Even certain tenants of science that we accept are faith driven. Our base-10 number system, for example. We limit ourselves to the use of numbers 0-9, and combinations thereof. What about the binary base-2 number system? Computer programming at it's heart uses numbers 0 & 1 only.

I think this idea that "the truth sets you free" is a metaphor. In the final analysis, the only thing that you can truely know is yourself.

Phsychometrist Raymond Cattell came up with this equation: R = f(S,P).

R = behavioral response, which is a function (f) of the situation (S) confronted and the individual's personality (P).

He also discovered 16 basic surface personality traits which load onto certain over-arching source personality trends, including (Reserved (schizothymia) vs. Outgoing (affectothymia)), (intelligence), (emotional stability), (dominance), (surgency), (superego interfluence) and on and on and on.

He did a procedure known as factor analysis, wherein thousands of subjects each did thousands of personality evaluations ad IQ tests. He also developed a Culture Fair Intelligennce Test that is designed to measure innate rahter than crytallized intelligence, which is what traditional IQ tests measure.

It's interesting for me to read his research, because he is possibly the only psycologist to mathematically analyze and organize those undefineable ideas that characterize personality. a person can now be distilled into an equation using dynamic caluculus.

But I digress. Truth is culturally and personally defined. It is fluid, and therefore impossible to explain in concrete terms. Unfortunately, our language is at times too limiting, because we cente our word choices around what is concrete and observable.

June 14, 2000
6:23 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Cici.

Again, well said.

You said. "There's no such thing as absolute truth. Even certain tenants of science that we accept are faith driven. ... ... I think this idea that 'the truth sets you free' is a metaphor. In the final analysis, the only thing that you can truely know is yourself. " Yes, yes, yes!!!

The extent, to which we are conscious of and understand the complex interplay between our sensory perceptions, cognitions and our emotions, to that extent are we 'free'. In my view, it is this very subjective and relative 'truth' that sets us 'free' to let go of the exhaustive charade of maintaining our many 'personas'.

June 14, 2000
11:29 pm
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

i dont know what to do. whether to force myself to follow whats going on and then maybe if i understand it, it migth help.

OR should i just chill out and relax. hmm.. i think i'll just go and take a nap.. heh.

June 14, 2000
11:35 pm
Avatar
Frieda
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"a person can now be distilled into an equation using dynamic calculus"

In that case, I am definitely a '10':)

Doesn't that seem sad? We can all be just a number after all. What does Cattell do with his info? Can the average therapist administer these tests and determine a method of treatment? Does it show what is good and what is bad, what needs treatment, etc.? You know insurance companies would love this kind of thing! I so much appreciate you sharing all this technical stuff--how do you expect me to sleep tonight? Between you and Tez, my brain hurts!:)

Tez, are you saying that truth is being real inside ourselves which sets us free from pretending? Maybe I could follow all your entries and simplify them for us common folks! I wouldn't presume to--don't worry.
I like that concept of freedom. Free from our idealized image, free to live in our skin as our self image. (See how I'm paying attention, Cici?)

I don't like the concept of a world with no absolute truths. I find it difficult to even think along that vein. I know it seems arrogant to insist that there are absolutes, but a blanket dismissal seems simplistic.

June 15, 2000
6:04 am
Avatar
tylos
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Tez

When I said: ego=self=i=identity=psych I didn't mean to be as precise as the mathematical equation might imply. Nevertheless,the concepts used are very similar inspite of different terms.When I say 'myself', what do I mean? I mean 'me' :my whole body which contains all what we study in Psychology:thoughts,emotions,memories,sensations,roles.....Everything is in the brain, with the assistance of all our organs of course.If you 'leave' the brain by itself (if you can keep it alive) I would imagine that it would not function because brain depends upon our sensations to function. When I say my 'self-esteem', what do I assess or evaluate? My body and thoughts and sensations .....When I say 'I accept my self',what do I mean? I mean I know that my thoughts and and etc are the way they are because of different circumstances.Some are within my body and some I have learned .Learning takes place in my mind,it is part of myself.When I say my 'ego' ,what do I mean? The word 'ego' became popular after Freud who used it as that part which makes a balance among our values and our instincts by being realistic in order not to feel anxious.To do so, ego might apply defenses:defense mechanisms or 'self' mechanisms.

What is 'psych'?Before Psychology became a science,it was thought of as a 'soul' or 'spirit'.We kept using the term but what it really means today is 'behavior'.What is behavior? It is our thoughts and our performance.

'Psyh' is the 'inner world of individual'.Philosophers disagreed regarding this concept:Idealism saw it as a spiritual substance,others saw it as physiological mechanisms in the brain,others(Behaviorism) saw it as performance...etc.

We are "whole" human beings. One problem with science is DIVIDING things.The problem with dividing human being into body and mind is a real problem(I think Descartes is the one who did this division).If we want to understand humans we have to see them as "wholes" and not as parts:ego & self & identity & child & adult &...We are wholes. We can't understand our feelings without knowing our thoughts, how I receive any input depends upon how I think of it and how I feel towards it, even how I feel pain (physical pain) depends upon how I perceive it and how I 'think' it is painful.

Self does not end at my skin,because I have relations,I play roles,and I interact with others... but everything is inside me.My possessions are part of myself in the sense that inside me I consider it mine and I perform accordingly.

This subject is very complicated and has many many facets.To begin dealing with it means to go to concepts and issues,I think, are beyond the goals of this website.

Thank you.

June 15, 2000
9:24 am
Avatar
Cici
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Frieda - Cattell's stuff is actually really useful, but so complex that most people shy away from his methods. Also, he's a little wacko. Near the end of his career he started going on about eugenics (sterilizing the mentally retarded and the psychologically disturbed and encouraging people with above-average intelligence to reproduce). Woo, boy, he got to be alittle nutty. Then again, most mathematicians are. Ha ha ha.

Cattell's stuff is great for the counselor...you do those evaluative tests, and whatever source and surface traits apply to the individual gives a pretty good indication of those tendencies which are innate, or genetic, adn which are learned through interaction with the environment. So, the therapist treats or changes the learned behaviors, because you really can't make much progress if someone has the genetic tendency to be introverted and you try to force them to be extraverted. That's just asking for trouble, because you can't go against someone's very nature.

Tez - Thank you much. It's always nice to have an intellectual discussion on these boards.

June 15, 2000
4:33 pm
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

*me seeing this discussion, rolling his eyes, tongue sticking out and fainting on the floor*

June 15, 2000
7:32 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Guest-guest.

You are the best medicine for me at this moment. I rarely get such a good belly laughed as I'm having now. You have a fantastic sense of humor, mate. That alone will guarantee your future good mental health.(and probably mine 🙂 )

June 15, 2000
7:35 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

All.

I have to free up my phone dialup line right now. Have downloaded this page and will respond tomorrow. Thanks.

June 15, 2000
10:32 pm
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

tez, i'm humourous like that in only maybe 5 to 10% of my time. Even at that time i'm still feeling bad, depressed.

b/w here's soemthing from my mind: As i was writing this, i thought i shuld mention that maybe i just wanted appear humourous or 'different'. Maybe that would make me different from all the rest here. I think thats IS one factor in my and other kinds of personality. You feel differnet from others or that you WANT to be different, you never feel comfortable bieng a part of the crowd.
BUT .. as i wrote this (that i'm jsut apearing humurous), i told myself to look back and verify whether i had written this to appear funny or whether i really did feel funny. Then i saw that i really did feel funny, so i didnt mention it.

But its still strange, i'm now confused as to what was the real raeson i was appearing funny.
Anyways, whatever, i hope no one minds my 'mind-junks'!

June 16, 2000
6:49 pm
Avatar
Spirit
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Guest_guest: Keep 'em coming. I too was laughing out load. It was the best laugh I had had for a while.

I have been enjoying looking over all you all's shoulders while you write on this thread. So many viewpoints on the ego. I found my eyes rolling a time or two, myself. Deep stuff to ponder...

Keep up the dialogue. Maybe I'll get the hang of it yet. Brain's been a bit weary lately...

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: UTC -8

Most Users Ever Online: 247

Currently Online:
55 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

onedaythiswillpass: 1134

zarathustra: 562

StronginHim77: 453

free: 433

2013ways: 431

curious64: 408

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 49

Members: 109363

Moderators: 5

Admins: 3

Forum Stats:

Groups: 8

Forums: 74

Topics: 38532

Posts: 714177

Newest Members:

hecnzDazy, Ostapmof, bhbyfDazy, siltDazy, sergyanDazy, antonioya11

Moderators: arochaIB: 1, devadmin: 9, Tincho: 0, Donn Gruta: 0, Germain Palacios: 0

Administrators: admin: 21, ShiningLight: 572, emily430: 29

Copyright © 2019 MH Sub I, LLC. All rights reserved. Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Health Disclaimer