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ef are you around?
December 30, 2005
11:51 pm
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orangeboy
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hey there. i was just writing and processing all my events that happened this summer, and went back through to read some threads. you had some great advice for me that i couldn't understand then, and am still struggling with wrapping my head around now.

are you up for talking with me about it some more?

December 31, 2005
12:05 am
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exoticflower
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I am, oboy, what's going on? How are you? I saw your thread but didn't read it honestly, but if I can help at all I would love to--sort of get me out of my own head for a while too!

December 31, 2005
12:14 am
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orangeboy
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cool.

i don't know if you remember all the stuff that went down this summer with me, but you had some pretty blunt things to say. some of which were really hugely helpful and related well, and some of which i think had more to do with what you were going through.

i was just reading a thread from that time, in may i think, and something that you said really struck me, but then it froze my computer to have that much info pulled up all at once.

shoot, i'm having a hard time communicating what i'm wanting to say here. first i guess, do you remember much of my situation?

i've just written a bit of it to ddog, trying to sum it up on the proposing thread.

what you had said to me that i wanted to talk with you about was about how i couldn't see how my actions affect others. stuff that you were trying to get your guy to understand when he did similar things, but he wouldn't listen.

i REALLY want to understand. i keep trying to look at this stuff and describe it and explain it and work through it without placing blame, but i don't know how. i'm struggling.

i know that you were firm with me about it, and i really appreciate it. so even if you're not up for drudging up stuff and talking about it again, as i'm hoping, i at least want to tell you thank you, that your support has been helpful to me.

oboy.

December 31, 2005
12:14 am
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exoticflower
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oboy, exoticbaby just woke up and I am going to check things out with her and see that she is ok, I'll be back here though if you want to post away now and I can look at it once she gets snuggled in again?

I thinhk I may vuegly know what you are refering to, one time when you thought I was your ex becasue I gave you a toung lashing? Well, I too have had some growth, I hope I can communicate to you better what I mean to through relating WITHOUT being catty! 🙂

December 31, 2005
12:16 am
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exoticflower
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cross posted there!

I do know now what sort of stuff this was about I think, about how you needed to know what you wanted and where not concidering the whole other perosn hanging by your thread sort of thing? And you where upset by her anger, which I felt was apropriate?

I am actually going through some of that with ex now too, but in a different way, and have learned a bit on the matter--bravo to you for wanting to look at others and your effects on their feelings, that is very mature and compassionate. Be back soon!

December 31, 2005
12:41 am
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exoticflower
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oboy, if I may quote d..."you cheating bastard". Ah, just for cathardic purpouses, I'm mad at MY cheater, not you. YOu are, it sounds like, owning your end and really ready to make it work and be a man about how things fell apart.

I don't think you should propose right now, not becasue you aren't a better person now or becasue your relationship isn't better, but I can promise you she has some unresolved and completly apropriate hurt, anger and distrust to work through, and needs you to continue to prove to her that you DO own your behaviors and things ARE different as far as where you are at and how much you are respecting her.

I think that when ex and I tried it again after I found out about all of the betrayals, the worst part was that he did not feel the need to regularly affirm that he was working on his issues and continually reasure me--when you drop someone, they must be scared you will again and constantly need to know you have a good grip this time and are not going to let them go. If you are going abroad, she is probably going to have a lot of doubt, and she SHOULD. You cheated on her, hurt her, and then made it about her, which must have caused a lot of self doubt and conflict when she knew it WASN'T her while the person she loves most was telling her it was and that he couldn;t settle on her. OUch. That's a LOT of pain. I know first hand. Call her every day, no matter how hard. WHen she calls you, tell her every detail, write her once a week, email her every night. Let her know what time you get in and what you did. She can only see that she can trust you if you SHOW her. I really do think that resentment resurfaces just when you start to feel too "safe". And when you start to take a woman for granted.

Of course, my ex didn't do these things becasue he WAS cheating on me, but if you are not going to be, she will see that and be able to trust you, which will in turn let you feel really good about the partner you are choosing to be. As that works out more your relationship will get healthier and healthier until she doesn't doubt you or fear getting hurt and you don't doubt yourself and are instinctively truthful, conciderate, and attentive. She deserves taht from you now, a proposal would be romantic and such, but I think would sort of trap in stuff that could breed and turn worse--like, when you dressa wound that has not been treated and some small remaining bacteria turns into a raging infection. Tend to the wounds first, I think, and VERY thuroughly, to see that you are not covering something not ready to be moved past yet. IMHO.

December 31, 2005
12:43 am
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exoticflower
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She needs to know that you are emotinoally safe, and you need to be able to show her that, I guess is what i am saying. Just from experiance, I know that is the only way it would have ever worked with me and ex (that and not severely phsychologically abusing me or being a raging alcoholic, but that's just my own situation!)

December 31, 2005
12:45 am
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orangeboy
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yeah, that's a part of it. i still have a lot more to look at on this stuff.

i still don't get it. i want to, i'm trying to, i know i'm being defensive, i'm trying to not be. i think talking about it on this site would be extremely helpful. with you especially, 'cos i trust you'll be blunt with me, and i appreciate it.

more i'm thinkin' of how when i describe what happened or talk about it, i still sound like i'm blaming, not taking responsibility.

"how you needed to know what you wanted and where not concidering the whole other perosn hanging by your thread sort of thing? And you where upset by her anger, which I felt was apropriate?"

i feel that i was considering the whole other person, but in the way of my telling her that she was my second choice, that wasn't fair to her, that she should move on, that she deserved to be with someone who knew she was their first choice, etc. and she said that she realized that she was probably gonna get hurt, but that she was making that decision.

but i also did say that sometimes i didn't understand why she wasn't my first choice, or that she was slipping into being my first choice 'cos i wanted what she was offering me in terms of a relationship.

i treated that person badly. i don't know that i've been able to deal with how badly i treated her because yes, i am still very angry with her. for a lot of reasons.

but i still need to understand the ways that i need to take responsibility for myself, to myself. i just wanna understand this and i don't.

nor do i understand stuff with iz in regards to that still...

your situation seems similar to mine even now, huh?

December 31, 2005
12:48 am
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orangeboy
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whoops, more cross posting. i wrote the above before i read your two. what's IMHO?

December 31, 2005
12:50 am
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exoticflower
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Sort of, I spent a lot of time on her end more so--but in the wanting to work on yourself and trying to keep it about you and not the relationship that sparked the want to move foreward is a hard one for me too, even now when I know I would never have him back.

Sounds to me, frankly, like you where in an unequal relationship with her in that she was commited to you first and most and you whnere not to her. How has that changed now?

Why are you angry at her? becasue seh moved on after you cheated on her? Did she do what you did? Maybe forginving youreslf and forgiving her are competeing--like you don't want to take full responsability for how bad what you did truly was, but if you concider how badly she may have treated you you have to admit to yourself that you did the same? Just some thoughts, I seem to recal that she was pulling some of the same stuff you where and found out later? Or maybe I'm completley wrong there, I couldn't find that old thread so I'm working form memory.

December 31, 2005
12:50 am
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exoticflower
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In My Humble Opinion

December 31, 2005
12:56 am
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orangeboy
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"You cheated on her, hurt her, and then made it about her, which must have caused a lot of self doubt and conflict when she knew it WASN'T her while the person she loves most was telling her it was and that he couldn;t settle on her."

ok. i keep responding to this with so much defensiveness. i can see what you're saying. do i have to let my side of it go?

i know that i was in the wrong, i know that i made shitty choices, but also my choices were largely my responses to things she was saying and doing. i know that i still had a say in the matter, i still made the decisions that i did, no one else did. but they are still affecting her so much now. so so much. she thinks that i'm going to do the same thing again at any given point, but to me i feel like geez, YOU broke up with ME. YOU told ME to sleep with her. YOU asked ME to move on. YOU suggested that I continue to date both of you and then later retracted it. YOU cancelled our date that night and insisted that i go over to her house.

and i can see the blame in these things i mean, duh. but for real, i NEVER woulda done those things if we were in a serious committed long term relationship. we had only just gotten back together after having been broken up for 4 months, and i was distrustful that it was just becaause she didn't want anyone else to have me, not because she really wanted me.

she jerked me around and i was strong, and she jerked me around and i jerked the other person around and then i snapped. and made awful and hurtful decisions. i remember then just thinking that i wished it would all just stop.

but i didn't know enough to ask for space. i didn't know how to ask for it. so instead i tried to do whatever either of them wanted. i removed MYSELF from the situation...which i guess is a way of avoiding responsibility and blame...

December 31, 2005
12:57 am
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exoticflower
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Hey oboy, babygirl is waking up again, I would be very happy to pick this up later--I'll check beck in the morning--back I mean. Go easy on yourself, you can't get these things figured out all at once!

December 31, 2005
1:00 am
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exoticflower
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oboy, oboy oboy....I've got some "honest" chewing out for you tommorow now--mind you I like you and I apriciate you, so please do not take offense, but I can definately give it to you from the other side here--and no, no woman really wants you to cancel her date to go sleep with another woman. ANd no man really believes that she was honestly thinking "I hope he goes to do it with his other choice, I like being second". She didn't know how to ask for reasurance, or she played a game instead, but you KNOW, anyone KNOWS that game. tsk.

December 31, 2005
1:06 am
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orangeboy
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"Sounds to me, frankly, like you where in an unequal relationship with her in that she was commited to you first and most and you whnere not to her. How has that changed now?

Why are you angry at her? becasue seh moved on after you cheated on her? Did she do what you did? Maybe forginving youreslf and forgiving her are competeing--like you don't want to take full responsability for how bad what you did truly was, but if you concider how badly she may have treated you you have to admit to yourself that you did the same? Just some thoughts, I seem to recal that she was pulling some of the same stuff you where and found out later"

huh uh. this is all mixed up. 2 people-rawandala and izzie (thank bonita for the names), izzie and i were together for a year and a half before she broke up with me without giving me reasons, and then we started hanging out every day, and i was wholly committed to her which was driving her up the wall, i was determined that we would get back together and work things out, i felt toyed with. she would hold my hand, kiss my face, etc etc, but then get angry when i couldn't understand that we weren't dating. so i decided to make out with somebody to get my mind off of her, to start trying to move on like she was asking me to do.

but i was determined that it would be no more than making out, because i knew how emotionally unhealthy and unstable i was.

and then a friend of a friend-rawanda-came up to visit me, i knew that she had a crush on me, i had a crush on her, but i had told our mutual friends and her that i was not up for dating. i told our friends that i wasn't up for making out with her. and then iz said, "wow, rawandas hot, you should probly make out with her". and i was so upset. hurt. angry. devastated.

and i thought, ok, maybe you're right. maybe i should start dating someone. get my pitiful self off of iz, and move on to someone new.

which was basically using rawanda, i know. unfair to her, shitty to her. but i also told her at the beginning that i wasn't up for dating, that i was still in love with iz. and then by the end of the week she told me she was in love with me. she took a bus to visit me and stayed at my house for a week, stayed there while i was in school and made me meals and all that and at the end of one week said she was in love with me.

i was overwhelmed. i had been having fun with her, but i also, for possibly the first time, felt totally smothered, and politely told her that i needed some space, and asked her to leave.

December 31, 2005
1:09 am
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orangeboy
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ok. i'm just gonna keep blabbin' then if its alright with you, and check in again in the am. good luck with baby, and thanks for being willing to lock horns with me on this one. i like you too, no worries.

((ef & ebaby)

oboy

December 31, 2005
1:26 am
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orangeboy
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and so raw left, and a few days later, we began processing shit on the phone. crying, having a hard time, etc. and then i went down there to visit her, forgetting that iz had told me about some event that was happening and thus not going to it with iz.

i'm getting all skewed on the timeline here, but at some point, while rawanda was visiting, one of the several times she did, iz called and asked me to come over. i had told rawanda that iz was having a hard time, and that i might need to hang out with her at some point, and rawanda was sayin' yeah, of course, you should just go about your days, i know i'm here a lot, i don't need to be entertained. and so i said that i didn't know how long i was gonna be 'cos iz was in crisis, and she said it was fine.

so i went over to iz's and she was in an awful awful awful state. horribly self-destructive like i've never seen. and crying and flippin out and losing it, in ways that i don't feel comfortable again posting on the anonymous site even, but maybe you remember.

she threw something and said that she felt utterly crazy, that she couldn't deal with not having me be hers, that she needed me. and i just held her while she cried. i didn't call rawanda during this time, i was afraid to leave iz long enough to go to the bathroom. i was over there for hours, until i felt secure that iz was safe, until she fell asleep and assured me that it was ok for me to leave.

and i got home and talked with r about it a bit, without violating iz's confidentiality, which was upsetting to r. she kept pushing and asking why i didn't call and i said look, when i say it was a crisis, i mean it. if i could've called you i would have, but i didn't even feel i could use the bathroom.

and that night or the next day i broke up with rawanda. and i told iz, and she was upset with me. saying that i could've continued to date both of them. that i didn't have to do that.

but there was a time in there while rawanda and i were dating, and she was 6 hours away at her house and i slept with iz. and i told rawanda about it immediately and she was like, well, that's to be expected, that's ok.

huh??

to be con't...

December 31, 2005
1:52 am
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orangeboy
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con't...

and then for the first few days that iz and i were back together after rawanda left, it was great. everything that i had been wanting and missing. we had been broken up for 4 months, and i cried about it every single day. i missed her so much.

and what i wanted the whole time was for us to be back together.

but then i had this aching feeling like something was wrong. rawanda and i kept in contact, which iz knew about.

and iz kept saying that she was never going to be good enough for me, that i should move on, that she wasn't sure whether she was in love with me, etc etc and i was devastated. and she suggested that i date the both of them for the summer to figure it out.

and rawanda and i took a 2 week no contact break, and violated our no contact several times.

i toyed with her during that period, which i wasn't able to admit really until now.

i said that if things didn't work out between me and iz, that i hoped maybe she'd give me another chance. and i told iz that i was still having a crush on rawanda, but that i realized that what it was was that rawanda knew that she was in love with me, knew that and how she wanted to be with me, she was very secure and settled and nice to me and unwavering in her affection, and iz was not. not at all. she had been wishiwashy with me since day one about where we stood.

and so that's when the part came in about iz going back and forth with me and me in turn going back and forth with rawanda. whenever iz said she didn't want me, i told rawanda maybe she and i could try it, and when iz wanted me, i told rawanda i was done.

and i told rawanda that it wasn't fair for her to be treated that way, that she deserved more, that i felt i was being an asshole to her, that she deserved the best boyfriend in the world, and that i wished i could be him for her, but i couldn't, 'cos i was in love with someone else. but i always maintained that there was a chance for her and i. i said that i thought she would move on, but that i hoped that if it were possible that she would be available.

and she said she wanted to hang on anyway. and she said that i didn't deserve to be treated the way that iz was treating me and that she'd never treat me that way.

and then iz said that she had always been in love with me, and was ready to commit to me, and asked me to marry her. and i said no. that i didn't trust her. that just a few days prior she had been saying that i was never going to get my needs met from her, and that i should move on, and suddenly she had always been in love with me and had to have me? i thought i smelled a rat. and i told her so, but she was also horrendously awfully depressed, the worst in her life she said. and i was scared. she was on the verge of breaking, and so i was scared of what i said to her.

and she said that she meant it, that she was committed to me, that she was going to prove it, and i said i wasn't sure. said that i was going to go to the town where raw was living 'cos i had to do something there, and that i planned on having coffee with her to have closure. and she agreed, on the condition that if it turned into anything more than "just coffee" i'd notify her immediately.

and then the time came and iz and i had a date which she cancelled on me for at the last moment, insisting that i go with her friend to raw's house. and i insisted absolutely not. we went back and forth at least 4 times until i pretty well had no option but to go. we were away from home, and had carpooled to where we were, so i either had to get a ride with the friend who she was trying to get me to go with, or force myself into going with iz who had just said that she needed alone time, and didn't want to be around anyone.

i felt hurt and angry. the way that i was feeling right then was fragile. the way that she was acting felt exactly like how i had just explained to her that i could not handle anymore of. i had told her that if she went back and forth with me one more time i gave up, and i wouldn't come back. it killed me everytime and was literally making me crazy.

and so i went to r's house with the friend, and it was the first time that we had seen each other since we had broken up, and it was all coy and flirtatious and sweet.

and then the friend and i went to meet iz, several hours late which the friend had insisted would be no big deal and that she would take responsibility for, and then we got there and iz was crying on the sidewalk and the friend ditched.

and i was flippin out about it, but also still feeling hurt and angry and worn out. and i began to insist that i come home with iz and screw my plans for the rest of the time and just be with her, and she yelled at me to leave. she thought she was being crazy with insecurity, and so did i. but i was trying in my faulty way to respect boundaries, to listen to her, but she was saying so many different things i had no idea what to let in and what not to...

December 31, 2005
2:12 am
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orangeboy
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and then i went and hung out with rawanda and our friends, and immediately was in a position where i was laying down next to rawanda on the floor and being very flirty, whispering secrets and giggling and stuff.

and the next morning was our "coffee date". and so we went out for breakfast, and i reiterated what i had been saying, that she was my second choice, and iz was my first, that she shouldn't stick around, that i was frustrated, and that i was considering taking the summer to figure out who i wanted to be with and just not be with either of them. i told her that i wanted iz to take the summer to figure out whether or not she TRULY was committed to me and in love with me. i was trying to tell the both of them that i wanted and needed space, but i was also scared and my actions were not lining up with my words.

i was convinced that one of them was the person that i was supposed to be with forever, and i was terrified of making the wrong decision. i wanted it to be iz, but i had convinced myself that i was unhealthy and thus rawanda must be the right person because it was a less unhealthy seeming possibility, even though i was not in love with her.

and then we hung out later on that day, being friends, and then we were being more and more flirty with each other, like putting our faces really close together and breathing in each other, basically coming as close as we could to kissing without kissing. so messed up.

and then that night we actually did cuddle, and i led her hand to her pants, and...well, you can imagine. i didn't technically have sex with her, but that's just because they were her hands and not mine. and as soon as she was done i stood up and flipped out. a-ha! there was that damn reality check sleaze-o!!

and i was freakin' out and so rawanda began to freak out and it was super late and so i just said that we'd have to talk about it later, 'cos it was f-ed, and i didn't know what to say or do.

and so the next day i went over there to talk to her and i told her that we absolutely could not see or talk to each other again. that we had no control or boundaries or respect or anything when we were with each other and it was messed up, that i was in love with someone else, and i couldn't be doing that, that i had to do that and that it wasn't fair of me to string her along like that.

and we both cried. and then i said i was sad that all that had happened and we didn't even get to kiss, shoot. that at least if we were gonna mess up and not get to see each other again we could make the most of it. stupid stupid stupid.

so we kissed. and went to get something to eat. and hung out til pretty late. and said our "final" goodbyes. and then hung out again the next day, when i finally emailed and told iz what'd happened, but said that there was more, but that i wanted to talk to her about it in person when i got home.

and then r and i went to say our final goodbyes again and hung out more. and then we had sex.

by that time i had convinced myself that it wasn't a big deal, that iz was going to understand, that now, finally i was over with my little bender and ready to move on for reals.

but it wasn't like that at all. iz and rawanda started exchanging emails as i was driving home, iz saying that i wasn't being straight up with her, that i had lied to her, and rawanda telling iz that i had never actually broken up with her, that i was lying to iz and was still together with rawanda.

and so i never did realy get a chance to tell iz the full story. i got home and she wouldn't talk to me. understandably.

she flew off to the other side of the country 3 days later, after having printed out all the emails between r and i and gluing them to my front door and knocking, and i was like, yeah? so? i was straight up with you both about all this stuff, except for where the 2 of you are lying...and after she asked me to take her out to dinner where we yelled at each other for 3 hours, and i was so upset that i puked 3 times.

December 31, 2005
2:13 am
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orangeboy
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EF-THIS IS REALLY LONG. YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ THE WHOLE THING, I MORE JUST WANNA PUT IT HERE FOR REFERENCE, OK?

December 31, 2005
2:37 am
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and then i started convincing myself that iz was awful. abusive. she has a tendency to phrase things in the most extreme ways she can, and i am overly sensitive.

and out of the twistings of both of them, i felt bad for rawanda. felt like poor thing, she just wanted to love me and she got totally slammed to the ground on it, because a lot of the things that iz had said in those emails were misleading, and so i began to write rawanda to apologize, to clear things up with her.

this was a few days after i had promised iz that i would make it up to her.

and i apologized to her by directly contradicting a lot of things that iz said that i said, even though some of them were half-truths.

and rawanda after a few days forgaveme, even felt sorry for me because i took the role of the victim and demonized iz, because that was really where i was at then. i truly believed that. i took the frustration with thewishiwashiness waaaaay too far and called it abusiveness. called my lack of willingness andopennessto being called out abusiveness.

see, iz had called me out on being manipulative in the past, and i didn't get it, and turned it around to be her problem instead because, as evidence, no one else had ever said that to me before, so it couldnt be true. only to find out later that a couple of my friends felt that way but waited until they couldn't be around me anymore before they said something, even denying that it was so when i flat out asked them if it was.

anyhow, so after a few days rawanda and i had cleared everything up, and began to date again. can you believe it!? what the hell!?

and after about a week, we saw each other in person again for the first time. it was great for a few days, but then around the 4th day, all the reasons i didn't want to be with her came flooding back, and i began to see through my own convincing myself that iz was bad. i started to really really miss iz. and i started to feel really irritated with rawanda.

and i was feeling more crazy than anything. and so again rawanda and i broke up, and again, a week or two later we saw each other in person. i was not in contact with iz yet at this point, but i was starting to miss her more and more, and was trying not to. and up until that point rawanda was asking me for reassurance that i wasn't going to get back together with iz.

and we kept saying that we had to set boundaries with each other, and then we'd make plans together and then say ok, as soon as we do this, we won't talk to each other ever again.

and so i wrote her an email saying that i was cancelling on any future plans or loopholes that we had made and was starting then and there to take our boundaries seriously. we had just seen each other in person and said all of these exact things, except that we still saidthat we were going to carpool on a 14 hour trip together and then have that be that. and so i said, no more of that.

and as a ps i said, and i wanted to let you know that i still am not going to get back together with iz, but its not because i don't want to, its because i'm not ready, i'm not healthy enough yet.

and she flipped out. and was super angry. and told me to never talk to her again. which i respected.

and then we were in the same town, visiting the same friend, at the same time. luckily she had another friend an hour away to visit, but that was a tricky one to not run into each other.

and then right after she finally went back home, the mutual friend and i made out. the mutual friend thought it was a bad idea to tell rawanda, and i said no, it'll cause hurt and distrust and hardship between you two, don't lie to her.

and so she told her and rawanda flipped her shit and was irate with me, and started telling anyone and everyone she could think of how horrible i was.

which, as i'm writing this, i can see more where she was coming from-lol. damn. is this what people are talking about when they say that guys are clueless? 'cos i've been being pretty dense on this stuff. so dense that it appears that i'm being manipulative, but really, i'm just being stupid. not to be self deprecating at all, just the plain truth.

gotta go get something to eat. more later...

December 31, 2005
3:04 am
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angel4U
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orangeboy - What a novel! Have you ever thought of becoming a writer?? lol!

Seriously, if I may step in while EF's away, from what I have read so far you have lots of lessons you can learn from this, so you can throw that "stupid" tag away, ok??.

The first one is (from how I see it) is that this is not all your doing. Each one of you - iz, rawanda and you - made choices based on total honesty about what was going on. Iz left the door open with her wishywashiness and not claiming she wanted exclusiveness from you, and outright telling you it was ok for you to see both of them. R did the same by claiming "she'll accept what she gets from you", even when you outright told her you were in love with someone else. You made the choice of accepting seeing both of them (I am guessing because they were ok with it) ... and having your cake and eating it to.

In addition, it seems like all of you were acting on your emotions/desires (immediate gratification?), rather than using any thoughts about the consequences to your decisions/actions or using any self-control.

Why either of these girls are angry now (I especially was displeased with R's lies to iz ... which I saw as pretty revengeful for something she set herself up in), or why you feel guilty, is beyond me. You all agreed to this (what I consider) crazy triangle. And at this point are now just paying the consequences.

Does this sound at all true to you?

December 31, 2005
3:29 am
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orangeboy
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i've been trying to figure it out for awhile, whining, being like, i don't understand why rawanda's so mad at me, yes, i slept with our mutual friend, and yeah that was totally messed up, but all the rest of it she has no right to be upset.

wow. ok.

so i've been upset with rawanda 'cos she lied to me several times, lied to iz, and then has been telling everyone we know as far as i can tell how awful i am. and two of my closest friends who met her through me have written me off as a result.

but i haven't looked at the evidence as to how awfully i treated her for awhile. not all lined up like this.

and i basically drove it into the ground, 'cos then before i slept with our mutual friend i wrote her a letter saying how mad at her i was for talking so much shit, and telling her to stay outta my life forever.

then i slept with our mutual friend, and she threatened to throw the rest of my stuff out on the street, and so i wrote her back telling her that i didn't understand why she was so mad at the beginning...

i'm wearing myself out. ok. so i've learned a lot already just by writing this and looking back at it again. i need to stop and think...

December 31, 2005
3:36 am
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orangeboy
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hey angel,

well, that's what i've been thinking all along, but i know that i also played a role in this and hurt them, and myself. i'm not the only one, but i have to take responsibility, and i want to.

there are a million lessons to learn from this whole mess, my life has easily tripled in happiness and understanding outta the deepest dungeons of these awful times, but i still get confused as to iz's feelings on it at times.

still get confused because 2 of my closest friends have written me off as a result of who-knows-what rawanda's told them, and get confused because sometimes i feel like i want to apologize to rawanda and be friends, and other times, most of the time, i wish i never would have met her conniving lying face.

still get confused because at times iz seems to forget that she broke up with me, that she played a part in this at all, and i am the one who cheated on her,so what ground do i have to stand on ever to talk with her about where i was coming from? how are these things reconciled?

December 31, 2005
3:42 am
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angel4U
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What do you think YOU did that makes you feel this way: "... but i haven't looked at the evidence as to how awfully i treated her for awhile. not all lined up like this."

From what I saw, you were honest with her. Not that sleeping around with all these women that know eachother is right (that leaves you wide open for a CAT FIGHT!), but I never saw where you had any commitment or dishonesty with her going on. Or did you when this was happening?

Food for thought: Some women make the mistake of thinking that a guy is in love with them because the guy sleeps with them, and choose to ignore what he's saying/doing. In addition, some also think they can "win" a guy over by doing so. Do you think maybe this is how R was feeling, and when she didn't win, she came out screaming?

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