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D'you believe this site is helpful?
March 16, 2001
11:47 am
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Cici
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Zoel you are walking a dangerous line here, because you just subtly criticized janes for trying to be helpful.

See human interaction is completely about manipulation. Verbal interchange and exchange is manipulation, voluntary manipulation. This is something you can't get away from. The idea is to have a strong enough self-identity that you can be manipulated but never lose your sense of self. In that way, what you propose (which is an accepted psychological phenomena in the field) could only happen to someone with a very fragile self-concept.

A person with a fragile self-concept is already having mental problems. So the manipulation into faulty thinking patterns is, by logical deduciton, a secondary problem to the already existing, problem that is ocmpletely, utterly belonging to that INDIVIDUAL.

And yes, we are a society of people in denial because that is culturally rewarded. Those who are honest and up front with themselves are also more depressed. This is because depressed people statistically tend to have more realistic views of themselves. Yet they are depressed, because they have a less developed capacity for self-deception. I can cite research on this if you want.

March 16, 2001
12:11 pm
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eve
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zoel,
I don't understand your question?
Are you asking if, in a dysfunctional relationship it is normally both sides that have a problem? A wholehearted yes from me for that question. As soon as this relationship continues for some time I don't think that it is possible for either of both sides to 'stay clean'.
But "putting the blame" on one or the other person is not going to help anybody. Try to find a way that will help yourself while doing as few damage as possible to other people involved. It is natural that you want to be exculpated and it feels good when you can say 'this is not my fault'. And maybe it isn't (but maybe it is). But when you try to make the other person in the relationship eat 'their' guilt, you will most likely end up choking.

March 18, 2001
6:04 am
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lewis
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Ritabrokenhearted

just the response helps, knowing there people out there, a contact. this site provides a feeling of not being alone maybe, when we are down, share it to a bunch of strangers. the response is uplifting. that people read it and reply, call me silly but i find that pretty nice and cosy.

gd lk
lv lew

March 18, 2001
4:32 pm
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NESS
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Hi! Im new to this site and I think you guys are great!You dont know each other personally(do you?)so your advice is the best to get .Sometimes strangers see things so differently and just put a whole new perspective on things going on in your life. A poem to cheer everyone up
Smile awhile
and while you smile another smiles
untill theres miles and miles of smiles
and lifes worth while
because you SMILE!

March 19, 2001
12:06 am
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gingerleigh
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Zoel, you bring up some good points. As far as the situation you describe where a person posts a problem, and then everyone on the site twists the post around to put the blame back on the person... I hate it when that happens to me, because the *last* thing we want to hear when we are venting about someone else is the ways in which we ourselves are contributing to the situation. WHAT?

Yeah, it's true, you could post that your spouse beats you and drinks constantly and verbally abuses you morning, noon and night. These are horrible things YES, and I don't think that anyone on this site would condone these behaviors. However, I think that the advice you would see here would not be "try to change your spouse"... it would be "GET THE HELL OUT!!!" putting the onus of change on you to make things better.

The point is, the only effective solution that can be provided *is* to put the "blame" back on the person posting. It's not really blame, it's more like an assignment of responsibility. Each of us is in control of his own life. We can't control other people effectively, only ourselves. So, if someone is posting a problem, a viable suggestion is NOT "make the other person change." That's impossible, you have to be the one to change because you are the only one who is willing to do so. You are the one who is unhappy enough to seek help, so the change has to come from you. That's not to say that the behavior of the partner isn't unhealthy... but the advice given here isn't meant to help the partner, it's meant to help YOU, so that's all we can focus on. All we can say is "Wow, what an awful thing for your partner to do! That really sucks!" That's sympathy/empathy, and believe me, we all have it in abundance after the experiences we all go through and the experiences of people who touch our lives. After the sympathy though, that's where the call to action is.

March 19, 2001
8:47 pm
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Molly
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Gingerleigh, I think that was very well, put,languaged, expressed, you know what I mean.

March 19, 2001
10:40 pm
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zoel
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My remarks about Janes, was not meant for insult. On the contrary, it was merely meant to compliment her on her efforts to help others. I admire that fact that she is everywhere, in touch with the needs of others. And by no means do I wish for her to remain silent what so ever. So my apologies to Janes for any misinterpretation.
My dilemma is not for me to blame others. I always take responsiblity for my wrongly decision. Although others have began to blame me for things that have occurred in there lives even in the past. It's as if they are trying to wear me down psychologically. I am not in denial about any problems, but these people continue to pretend to act phoney to my face. Then when I recognize there deceitfulness, they try to turn the table on me, saying that I am emotinally unstable or defensive for the littlest thing. Does becoming defensive when trying to protect one's self a major issue. I know I speak in riddles sometimes. Then i sometimes feel as if I am detached from reality. I begin to get paranoid.
Eve, you make sense when you say that I need to somehow help myself with few damage as possible. The criticism is good. Too often we only look for those words that tend to agree with what we want to hear. I recognize my flaws, I am just feel like giving up sometimes.
Gingeleigh, I agree, we are in control of our own decisions. I can live with my own mistakes. But for someone to boldly blame you for the actions of others is very.....well, it can be damaging to a persons emotions and well-being. What can I do to keep from becoming depressed. To not wake up and cry or go to sleep and cry. To keep from blaming myself for have letting these things happen. I feel like I should just do what people tell me to do, but to whom would it benefit. I don't do drugs. I am independent. I have alot of positive qualities. But lately, I feel as if I shouldn't get to friendly or close to others for fear of hurting them or having the same thing happen again. Well, I tried being a little more detailed. what do you make of this?

March 20, 2001
2:21 pm
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zoel,

Let me know in e-mail: [email protected]

if you're having problems logging in with the same nickname. If so, I can help you.

- Site Coordinator

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