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Does she has the right to do that?
July 27, 2007
9:03 pm
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lovinglife
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Oh and H-gal…so good to see you!!

And by golly I think that you've got a good point there... "If I'm ready to work at 8:00, I can also be ready to leave at 5:00. Fair's fair, right? Only, not thinking here, but in my work environment I get ‘relieved’ (hospital) and if the next shift is late I can't just leave at the end of my shift time : ( which sucks sometimes when I've done an overnighter as I'm ready to leave at 7:15am on the dot and if it gets to be 7:17, 7:18, 7:19...by then I am so irritated as I just want to go home!! I don't have that problem (getting irritated if I have to stay a few extra mns) on other shifts I work - its just those nights - as their killers- whew.

and gosh dern it-I have to laugh here but there is one Nurse in particular who hangs around the report room for just a few extra minutes in the morning while everyone else goes to their units right after report (and its a coffee issue for her- oh for even more funny!) and dern it but every time she is the one to relieve me- I don't get to leave like my other co-workers on different units!!

ah for those that don't think a few mns are a big deal- work an over night shift and each minute that goes past the time your shift ended - feels like an hour!

July 27, 2007
9:05 pm
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bonni
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Dear Ras,
My office is supposed to open at 8am every day. If everyone were consistently 3 minutes late and the office didn't get opened to the public on time, there would be consequences.

I do not directly supervise those people responsible for opening the office. I typically come in after 8 and I work later. I don't have to be there to open the office; I'm more part of the closing shift. I have arrived at work and found the office not yet open and reprimanded the staff. I also reprimanded their supervisor and manager. We have customers depending on us to be open when we say we are going to be open.

Three minutes may not be that big a deal to you, but its a big deal to those waiting on you and depending on you to be available to do your job.

If this woman is not in your chain of command, then she has no right to reprimand you. However, if she were your supervisor's manager, then you would be working for her and she would be well within her authority to ask you to be at your desk ready to work at 8:30.

I know that three minutes may not seem like a big deal, but it really can be. If your supervisor doesn't care when you start working, then it doesn't matter, but if her boss cares, she should get in trouble for not enforcing the rules.

bonni

July 27, 2007
9:08 pm
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lovinglife
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though it could be truly correct in my case regarding a typo in my last post....but I didn't mean " not thinking here" as it should have read " now thinking here"!

July 27, 2007
9:25 pm
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Tiger Trainer
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I have often thought what it would be like to have a job you could arrive at, work and then just go home. As a teacher there is never a question of being on time or going home early or taking longer or shorter lunch break. Every teacher I've ever known comes to work early, works late and works through the 25 minute lunch period. Not that I'm complaining. I chose to be a teacher I am just waxing philosophical on different demands of different jobs.

July 27, 2007
9:33 pm
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Honolulugal
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Gotcha, LL.

Yup, I'm in a position now (like you, Bonni) where we have to be on time in order for the office to open for business promptly.

We all have to work late sometimes and come in early. The norm, however is pretty much 8-5. I admit it, I'm a closet clockwatcher!

Wow, LL, my favorite ex-roommate was an MICU nurse at our Trauma Center hospital. She frequently was the charge nurse and would work 12 hour shifts overnight. Boy was she wiped when she would get home. She always said that each minute after her night shift was to end, was an eternity. I can totally understand that when it's quittin' time, it's quittin' time!

I give you heaps and heaps of credit for the job you do. Congrats to you! Wanna move to Honolulu? We're so dang short of nurses it is not at all funny. Hey! We'd even pay you!

H-gal

July 27, 2007
9:33 pm
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lovinglife
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Tiger- my DIL is also a teacher..she loves what she does and couldn't see herself doing anything different... but has talked about a few of the drawbacks you mentioned (esp at times her desire to go to work, work, then just go home) only to include that sometimes when she has to use the bathroom she has no choice but to wait in between classes or more like really its waiting until her lunch hour.

((((Our Teachers))))

July 27, 2007
9:35 pm
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bevdee
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I wonder if you could just keep little creamer packets in your desk?

July 27, 2007
9:42 pm
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Honolulugal
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I agree, LL...

((((Our Teachers)))) ((((Our Nurses))))

July 27, 2007
9:45 pm
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ggfred4
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I have been contemplating for a few hours about posting my opinion. The last time I was asked my opinion, I was told I was probably tired and not real reasonable. I have refrained from posting my own perspective lately. Yet this thread is asking a question and I do have my own opinion to state. One thing I have learned on the aac, is to try and respect the opinions of others, especially if different from my own.

I am not concerned over being late to work as right or wrong. I have read many excellent responses so far. The point I wanted to state concerned professionalism. I have a job where I sign in and have a designated time to be there. If I were to be late a few minutes, I probably would not get reprimanded. There are a few at my job who are habitually a few minutes late daily. (Yes, there are times where being late is excusable due to unforseen circumstances.) These late coworkers are not reprimanded either. Yet, they have lost the respect of many co-workers and staff. Many joke about their tardiness behind their backs. Their reputation as a professinal can be tarnished due to a bad habit that can be reversed. Sometimes a few minutes here and there can become a negative habit that may result in a situation never intended.

July 27, 2007
10:00 pm
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Honolulugal
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Hiya GG!!!

Good to see/hear you!

H-gal

July 27, 2007
10:42 pm
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lovinglife
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GG! that was excellent!! Somewhere in my thoughts on this,(thinking of my own actions) was exactly what you wrote….the aspect you’re coming from and how you view it... why yes, professionalism.

July 27, 2007
11:25 pm
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_anonymous
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I am glad you resolved this problem. I do not agree with your therapist about telling this woman she was right. Where I come from the time card that we punch is the legal indicator as to exactly what time an employee has arrived at work, the next thing would be the company policy that explaines how late a person can clock in without being considered officially late and how early a person can clock out with out being considered officially leaving before their shift is over and how late a person can clock out before it is officially considered working unauthorized overtime. I am sorry but 3 minutes would be viewed as a minor infarction of the rules. And in order for it to be fair than everyone everytime coming 3 minutes late would need to be reprimanded unless the company wants to be viewed as harassing someone. Not only is this employee in the not so good person category she is down right PETTY and RIDICULOUS

July 28, 2007
8:13 am
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bonni
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Destinystar,
What I'm hearing you say that it is petty and ridiculous to expect a place of business to operate according to its advertised hours? Or is it petty and ridiculous for a business to expect its employees to be prompt on a regular basis? Does it not bother you to get somewhere that is supposed to be open and have to wait for them to do so?

One of my first bosses always said that if you weren't five minutes early, you were already late. When I arrive at a meeting three minutes late, it has usually started without me. And I lose esteem in the eyes of my colleagues.

When job candidates show up three minutes late for their interviews, it does not reflect well. Its not petty and ridiculous to form an opinion that this person is not interested enough in the position to be here when they said they would. Its an accurate assessment.

I had one colleague who went out of town with a friend who decided to stay an extra day. Our team member took three buses and a cab to get home in time to be at work on time when he was supposed to, rather than let his team down. We would have let him take the day, it cost him more than that day's wages to get there. When he applied for a promotion in the department, he got it, because management knew that he actually cared about his obligation to the job.

What may be petty and ridiculous would be for someone outside of the chain of command to call the person on tardiness, but to be fair, when the CEO's secretary calls and informs us that a customer has complained that we aren't open or answering the phone, its a BIG deal. Even if it happened to be just three minutes late that someone logged in or opened the office, the CEO doesn't CARE that it was just three minutes, just about the complaint. Maybe the customer is petty and ridiculous, but they are the reason we get to have these jobs and I'm pretty sure that if we think three minutes is not important, then I suspect he could find new employees who share his belief that our customers should be able to rely on reaching us during business hours.

For years, I just kept my clocks and watches set 15 minutes ahead so I would always be early, even when I was running late according to the clock.

bonni

July 28, 2007
8:57 am
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Rasputin
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Folks...I stated VEry Clearly in my post that I was in the buidling at 8h30 sharp. The fact that I pass by the kitchen 1st to get some milk for my coffee and then head to the 3rd floor took this 3 mins which made me arrive to my workstation at 8h33. I do this every where I worked and I've never had any employer chiding me - unless he happened to be petty and trivial that that woman who's not only NOT my supervisor, but I found out that she is an assistant, not even a manager.

This only happens very occasionally, being 3min late. I usually arrive b4 8h30 and stay after working hours and my supervisor noticed that about me and it's it REALLY PETTY to Chide or scold a good employee for such a PETTY reason, unless the employer himself is petty or trivial person who is control freak.

I really hate picky people who are standing over your head waiting for any slightest mistake to chide you and make you feel bad. We're all humans and traffic sometimes can be slow, sometimes even beyond our control.

Destiny~If I had to punch a card at my place, it would indicate 8h30 is the time when I arrived! I hope that answered your question.

Peace!

July 28, 2007
9:12 am
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_anonymous
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This is my point. What is the starting time on a job? Legally in my state it is the time you punch on the clock. It is only reasonable to expect that it would take an employee about 5 minutes after they left the time clock to get to their designated work area. It is also customary in my state that an employee is not allowed to punch in more than 7 minutes before their shift or punch out more than 7 minutes after their shift ends. This is so the company can avoid paying unessary over time. Some time clocks have a line of employees waiting to punch in and put their time cards back into a slot. So if a company really expects employees to be in their work area at a certain time then they should set the arrival time at work to be 15 minutes before that time to make sure that the employees have a reasonable amount of time to get to where they need to go. What kind of planning is it to start a meeting at the exact time employees start work? Not giving them enough time to punch in, use a bathroom, answer a question that someone asks who is passing them by, etc. If someone wants compliance then they need to set the groundwork for people to comply. When companies are unreasonable, then it is reflected by having a high turnover rate, and stressed out disgruntled employees filing for workers comp.

July 28, 2007
10:16 am
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Rasputin
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I have worked several places and noticed that Harsh Employers/bosses/supervisors are UNlikeable people and most employees tend to quit sooner or later and look for good ones. Every one wants to be treated with love, kindness, respect and justice which is the Goden rule. Granted, we need to earn our living, but we need NOT lose our dignity and respect in the process.

July 28, 2007
10:42 am
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ScaredinMichigan
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Respect is showing up and being ready to work when it is time Ras. You get what you give. You say that this woman was truly being too harsh...it was ONE incident. And the truth is...you want a good boss, someone who will respect you...in a year Ras...I have seen you want respect that you haven't earned. From people here, and in your real life.

The only reason you are upset with this woman Ras, is that she called you on something that YOU WERE WRONG. They have a right to expect you to be at your desk or whatever to DO your job at a certain time. IT IS RESPECT for your employer, and your job, and it shows self respect. Again, if this is all over ONE incident...you have again blown it COMPLETELY out of line. If it is over several of this nature...I think that you need to search within. Were they all over you being late?

You said this woman is not even in any type of management...SO WHAT. Even as an equal...I would be pissed for you to think that you can walk in late REGARDLESS of your excuse (which is what this is) while I was there on time. Your tardiness affects more than just you.

When will you begin to see that you are not perfect. In one year...I have never once seen you admit where you might have been to blame for anything....NOTHING. The world is not out to get you Ras. It just isn't.

And my biggest issue in all of this to start with was this ....

YOU SAID THIS..."My therapist told me arrving at work 3 mins late is no big deal, we all do it, that's what she told me. I told her that I make up for it by working those missing mins in my lunch time."

It isn't acceptable Ras, and it scares me to death that you have found a therapist that is helping you to blame the world for everything that doesn't go the way that you feel it should. You need to be responsible, and give the respect you want. At your job, your church, here, and anywhere you go in this life. It is the golden rule..."Treat others as you want to be treated yourself" You said it Ras...now read it, and take it to heart.

Quit blaming the world for everything that doesn't go the way that you think that it should.

July 28, 2007
6:10 pm
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taj64
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I do not understand the people on this site anymore.

ScaredinMichigan, this is downright mean response to a fellow AAC person. I think you ScareinMichigan need to treat others as you would want to be treated. Is this the kind of response you would like to have directed to you? Frankly I do not see how any person can have respect talking so condenscendingl to another person this way. I don't have respect for someone like this. This response is really uncalled for. And I would like to add with an attitude like that I would certainly hope I would never work for a manager of this type. I'd quit in a heartbeart even without having a job lined up.

You have a terrible attitude towards Ras and Im really disapointed, because I usually enjoy reading your post and you have always seem to be a caring person. What happened to you?

Ras did not deserve this one bit.

Im really glad I work for an office that is flexible and I do realize it is not like that at all places. If it was for a company that was stictly by the punch card, yes I would show up but ultimately I think office managers can be lenient on occasional lateness as long as it is not a habit.

I know if I was stuck in traffic, I trust my supervisor enough that he would be understanding. We all have families in this office and family comes first as well. But other offices do not have this luxury.

I feel all these negative comments towards Ras are blown out of proportion.

I don't agree with the opinions and Im ok with it and I can see why others would disagree yet I am seeing more and more people trying to prove a point rather than to be understanding and helping a person to work it out.

What happened to compassion? I am seeing more and more people becoming rude. It is getting pretty bad.

July 28, 2007
9:54 pm
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taj64
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Ironically several posters who are come down on Ras like this for being 3 minutes late for work and some AAC members here are posting throughout the day frequently and from where? Your jobs!!!!!!

Let's see, isn't that wasting company dollars? I'd rather be 3 minutes late to work, work hard throughout the day, be valued by my coworkers and also supervisor

I should know I am guilty of checking the threads during work time and since reading this thread I am going to stop this habit completely. It is not fair to waste work time this way. I am not going to visit to AAC anymore from my job.

Ras thanks for stepping up to the plate to talk about your problem. It allows me to be more conscience of work time. Though I am not going to change my own habits on timeliness as I feel over all I arrive on time, and leave on time. It so isn't worth arguing over.

Life needs to be peaceful, not inviting pettiness. Set your boundaries is what I have learned. You take care of yourself. You have a big heart and others notice it. Thanks for being honest. You are an honest person at least.

July 28, 2007
11:00 pm
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_anonymous
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Ras- I really respect you because you work. And you are concerned enough about your job to bring a concern to this forum.

Trust me you are perfectly normal for getting disturbed by this womans TUDE. Again if she was such a hard working employee why wasnt she at her work area performing her job? If she was so dedicated to her employer how did she ever find the nerve to waste company time by conversing with such a rule breaker as yourself? LOL.

July 29, 2007
9:13 am
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{{{Princess Taj}}} You are a TRUE FRIEND I will always cherish forever for speaking up and standing for truth!!!! I have been attacked so many times on these boards and I forgive all those folks who resent me and set boundaries with them; be it in my personal life, like this Assistant woman at work, or that other woman at my church, or here on the cyberworld of AAC. Looking at the bright side...this post enabled me to discover my true friends as well as those false ones either.

I have mentioned it several times that this tardiness (3-min) is ONLY OCCASIONAL. If people want to pretend that they did not read it carefully, then it's their problem! I also indicated more than once that I WAS in the company's building at 8H30 sharp which is the time when I start working. Mind you everywhere I worked at, I always start my day by...going the kitchen to fetch myself a cup of coffee that enables me to start my day right. I need that coffee, it really helps me to function better by perking me up and giving me some energy to start my working day with zeal and courage. I wish I could function without cafeine, but I just CAN'T!

The thing is in this company the kitchen happened to be on the 1st floor right at the foyer/entrance and I happen to work on the 3rd floor and thus is the occasional 3mins tardiness. Besides, I mentioned also that "I STAY after working hours which is 17h/5pm." Why didn't these people comment on this???

Many people here know that I am a recovered workaholic who was so abused and lived a loveless life. I was rarely hugged...rarely received a compliment in my life. Yet, they come on here stabbing me harshly, making me look criminal, or feel bad about myself, as if I were an ugly duckling person who has had a rosy fulfilled life; when tragically, what I need is love, compassion, hugs, kindness, empathy, sympathy...since those are the very things that were missing in my life. I forgive those people and set boundaries with them, period!

Thank you hon!!! you are indeed growing and making big strides and I am SO PROUD of you praying that our friendship with each other is not only restored, but I will always be there whenever you need me, a shoulder you can cry on, a true friend who you can open your heart to and be as vulnerable as you can without being judged, and I'm very glad to have a true friend like you and Fantas and all the other kind and true friends here on this AWESOME forum AAC! (((AAC)))

July 29, 2007
9:53 am
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lovinglife
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oh lets not assume here...that "Ironically several posters who are come down on Ras like this for being 3 minutes late for work and some AAC members here are posting throughout the day frequently and from where? Your jobs!!!!!!"

as I personally don't post from work and only have a few times checked the site from there in the year plus I have been posting on AAC.

Lets just hope ladies that many of us have learned whatever it was we each needed to learn from this thread...cause once again... THAT is what this AAC journey is all about!!

Com'on now sing it with me!!!

"You put your right thought in, You put your right thought out; You put your right thought in, And you shake it all about. You do the AAC- Pokey, And you turn yourself around. That's what it's all about!

You put your left thought in, You put your left thought out; You put your left thought in, And you shake it all about. You do the AAC Pokey,
And you turn someone else around.

That's what it's all about!

got to go...my man is waiting for me!

Love you all : ) Peace out.

PS: I just got off working a double- 3 people called in/out yesterday!

July 29, 2007
10:33 am
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taj64
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I just want to point that out, that is all. I got to thinking that if someone came down hard on me to coming to work 3 minutes, then I starting to think hey wait a minute, I have been logging on here from work and that is not right or fair. I owe to my job to stick to business. I often have free time to my job. But I need to be there my 8 hours and it does not matter what the job entails, having a lot or work or not much I still have to be there. I do come in late sometimes. I drive on a heavily traveled one lane only road to commute and it is not always easy to know how it is going to be until you get on the road. I think it depends on the area where you live as well.If you live in a rural area it is probably going to be the same everyday but I live in Wash/DC area and people commute from all over the place. It is different everyday. I am not assuming anything as I have admitted here that I do come on here from work. And i happen to know of some that do and have posted here so that is no assumption at all, not at all. All it takes is one person and it is not an assumption and I included myself in the some. I'd just like to point out that work behaviors come in all degrees and all shapes. Some people value timliness and some value what you actually do during that time. So quality versus quantity is always better in my eyes and noticing that yes I need to keep my eyes focused on my job at all time. I usually get on here the most before I go to work and on Sat or Sun morning before I start my day. It is not fair to use the company's computer for personal use. I realize that that is far worse than being 3 minutes late. So you see when I said some I was including myself in that. Only those that post here from work truly know in their heart if they are guilty or not. But no, I do think I am assuming anything. Nobody is perfect.

Ras I know we did not agree on some things but I always knew where you were coming from and I got past it. I still liked your personality, I never held that disagreement against you. None of us are perfect and acceptance goes a long way. While I have been known to be harsh, I do not flat out disrespect them. About a month ago someone on this site called me a cold hearted broad and all I was doing was trying to understand a person's sensitivity level. that person did not even bother to apologize to me. I find it even more bothersome that the same people who keep coming down hard on me never bother to post to me unless they disagree with my comments. They don't ackowledge the good points. They rarely post to me on me as a person, or to know me or understand me. But that is not my problem, boundaries are good. I need to peace out again. I know I have seen a comment about taking what you need and if you don't like something don't post. But the very people that say it, don't do it themselves. It is hard to understand all this sometimes. Thanks for the post Loving Life and Ras. Im going to get busy now, peace out to all of you as well.

July 29, 2007
11:22 am
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StronginHim77
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Let's see: original question was "Does she have the right to do that." Answer: Unless I saw your company's "chain of command" flow chart, I couldn't say. Nor have I read your company's policy on tardiness or definition on what constitutes "reporting to work."

I worked within one industry for nearly seventeen years wherein we were relieving the previous shift. Whoever held the fort during the night could not head for home, until his/her replacement arrived. If we were tardy, it affected the other employee very negatively. They had to keep on working, until their relief arrived.

So, I think it all depends upon the type of business, the chain of command within that industry/business, the company's written policies/standards regarding tardiness and reporting to work (versus reporting to work STATION, ready to work). Without any of this data, none of us can reasonably respond to this thread's original question.

Now, if you are soliciting personal opinions, (and you do seem to have gathered a TON of those!!), I would fall into the category of those who believe overall reliability in the Puncutality Department is an important factor in evaluating the overall performance and attitude of any employee. However, an occasional (and I would define "occasional" as happening 2 or 3 times a year) three minute tardy would not be a big deal in an --otherwise -- reliable employee. I also subscribe to the philosophy that arriving at one's jobsite is distinctly different from reporting to one's work station, ready to begin actual work. Again, different industries/businesses would understandably view this point from different angles.

- Ma Strong

July 29, 2007
12:50 pm
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jv63
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Hey Rasputin,

I am so glad you posted this thread.
It reminds me of my deep need not to sweat the small stuff. I don't work in the time clock environment any more though i did for twenty three years. Your post and all the pickey pissant replys and good reply's have made me grateful not to be in that kind of space today.

jv63

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