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Do all marriages eventually become passionless marriages of convenience?
October 3, 2005
10:26 am
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Mr Niceguy
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Sininho, what did you mean by "...knowing what I know now, I might not have broken the vase."? Is there something in that for us to learn from?

October 3, 2005
10:36 am
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Mr Niceguy
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Sininho, I'm looking back on your previous messages, I think your explanations are back there. I'm reading with great interest.

October 3, 2005
2:34 pm
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Anonymous
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I hope things are leaning towards good resolutions for *Lucky* and *Nice*.

It just occurred to me that things may get worse with time passing and it's bad to have resolutions made on fewer and not so good choices. Once I translated about pyromania where a fire setter caused a fire to hide a worse crime. He got got for the minor offense. Just to say we are in constant evolution for better or worse. If there are signs that the focus is on the wrong spot, watch out for a possible 'fire' ...that may fire back. 😉

0.2 again. Got a lot from the discussion here, thanks.

October 3, 2005
7:35 pm
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Anonymous
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I realize my last message was indirect. I made a comparison between fires and problems without clarifying what was going on in my mind. Here it is.

Suppose Lucky's and Nice's children began acting up at school. The problem would be at school? No. At home. So I was thinking (I'm always thinking) that could happen. If I remember someone said going to school to talk to a teacher. I remember that when my mother started to threaten to leave my father, preparing us kids, I guess, my mother was called at school. I was crying, just tears rolling down my face, while looking at the blackboard. I did fine in school, btw, that's where I expected to get some recognition. My mom, (not the favorite) 50% of my self, was going to leave my other (favorite) 50% self. My world came down at realizing that. Which way would I go? Dad was an anti-hero of sorts. Mom was the one there every day all day. The two older kids were being (I guess brainswashed) against my father while I was playing with dolls. It must have clicked when I heard something.

Now I was thinking (s'more) that there is a control issue there too. Once I heard from a yoga counselor that you can only control someone who controls him/herself. If you want to control someone who's unpredictable, you have a hard time (I know) boath controller and 'controllee'. Drinking goes with unpredictable situations. Is it treatable? Is it getting out of control? Let's do some damage assessment: wait till mom stops drinking then daddy finishes bring up from where he stopped... sad.

October 3, 2005
7:39 pm
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Anonymous
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In my case, if I could have chosen, I would have gone with my dad but I think I was a coward. It happened when my dad came to the beach house drunk and had an argument with my mom's parents. He was about to 'lose it' when he got his luggage into the car and asked: "who wants to go with me?" Five children stood in a row watching him leave. He found someone much later, still sleeping with my mom's picture under the pillow! They passed away now. My dad 6 months after my mom back some 11 years ago. I hope I helped some.

October 3, 2005
7:52 pm
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Anonymous
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Pls read "his pillow" where it says "the pillow". (lol) Have to practice some more chatting...

October 13, 2005
6:10 pm
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shardy
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October 13, 2005
6:38 pm
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mrdibbs
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Hi Shardy how you doing? After a while relationships can become stale.The first few months we are just getting to know each other and exploring minds as well as bodies this is a truly heady experience,as we all know,however once we have gotten to know the in and outs we suddenly have to cope with the ups and downs and thats when the problems start.There are no secret ingriediences for a successful marriage but it doesnt have to be a marriage of convenience either.Have you tried talking things over?

October 14, 2005
2:52 pm
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barleysugar
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Luckyguy. The man I love, who is also my best friend is in the same situation as you are. He was faithful for 32 years despite not having any physical relationship with his wife for a very long time. They are good friends too, married at 21 and two grown up children. They go out to dinner and go on holiday together, but it is because they are friends and he does care about her but not in the same way he cares about me. We desire each other and give each other immense joy. He can't leave his wife because he doesn't want to hurt her either. She is very insecure and he feels guilty for not loving her. I have been a visitor to their home and it is a cold place. She spends all her time with her horses, even after he came out of hospital recently. I called him at home to find out if he was okay and he was alone. He would never say a bad word about her. He is very loyal and respectful towards her. He loves me very much and I love him very much too. We go back a long long time and it has always been a platonic relationship except for just one time when our deep feelings for each other got the better of us. He thinks he should stay married to keep his wife happy. He says that because I make him happy, and he loves me so much, he is happier at home, whereas if I wasn't in his life, he would be miserable and then his home life would suffer and so would his wife as a consequence of his unhappiness and frustration. I understand him. I would like him to get a divorce and make that move because we do make each other very happy and we are very well suited in every respect. Since I have read your posts and those from Mr NiceGuy it has helped me to see it more clearly from his perspective. I love him even more because he is unselfish and considerate towards his wife's feelings. I will always be there for him as his best friend. He will always be there for me as my best friend. It is a situation that we have to accept, though not an easy one. It is not a happy place, to be tied up and bound in a loveless union. I don't think that if you made a mistake you have to pay for it living in misery for the rest of your life. The problem is that empathic people are human beings and we do have a conscience that overrides even our deepest desires - some wives who stay with their husbands for security are often very good at emotional blackmail and get away with it because the world sees them as the ones who are hard done by. Good luck to you!

October 14, 2005
3:05 pm
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kathygy
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we already have a long thread on this very issue. It might help to read that.

October 15, 2005
2:32 am
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number three
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ALLOT OF THINGS CAN KILL LOVE AND YES MEDICAL CONDITIONS CAN MAKE IT EVEN A MORE UNCOMFORTABLE SITUATION.
EVERY RELATIONSHIP HAS TO HAVE ATTENTION! LIKE ITS A LIVING BEING.
I TRY TO TAKE ONE DAY A WEEK TO DO SOMTHING WE BOTH WANT TO DO MAKE IT SPECIAL EVEN SOMTHING AS STUPID AS BAKING A CHEESE CAKE TOGETHER....
WHEN IT GETS REALLY HUMDRUMMM WE INVITE A FUN RELATIVE TO VISIT THAT STIRS THINGS UP!
THAT GREENER ON THE OTHER SIDE THING? WELL DON'T CONFUSE THAT WITH THE WARM FAMILLIAR FEELING OF BEING WITH SOMEONE YOU KNOW SO WELL YOU DONT NEED WORDS. THATS PRETTY GREAT!

October 15, 2005
8:22 am
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Matteo
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number three,

Fine, but what if you don't like this someone you know so well you don't need words?

October 15, 2005
3:40 pm
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Anonymous
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Coming back with a story that I believe relates to this thread.

A 35+ yo woman fell in love with a guy on the internet. She was divorced and he married. They met and had a week or so together. He decided he would leave his wife at the 'right time' because she needed him. The woman moved to his city and met his (religious title here) father and his mother who more than liked her. Guy made sure his wife was financially ok to be alone by putting things in her name. Guy and woman only talk, dont date. Wife asks for hubbie to hake a child with her. They do. Hubbie attached because of baby... The last I heard the woman was thinking of moving back...

Could it be that *Number Three* has a good point in that companionship is a big thing? That may be holding you *Lucky* back from divorcing.

I'm not for divorce. My parents did and I copied them. But people need to be happy and grow! Grow together too as a couple!! Otherwise life is just frustration one minute after the other with some immediate satisfaction in between, isn't it?

October 15, 2005
4:00 pm
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mrdibbs
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sininho.You are so right.For a marriage to work a couple have to be friends then lovers followed closely by companionship as they get older.All three together a wonderful mix.Sadly it doesnt always follow does it?

October 15, 2005
8:52 pm
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Mr Niceguy
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Mr Dibbs: "have to be friends then lovers followed closely by companionshp as they get older". It happens that we are friends, really close friends. We are no longer lovers because the physical intimacy is more closely associated with frustration than with commitment and desire. Companionship as we get older: yes we are companions on many fronts. Sheeeeeesh!!! I want to explode. We don't hate each other, we have few reasons to be aggressive and certainly not violent to each other, but.... I don't really love her. It's so sad, people don't want to be associated with this, but it's how I feel.

I'm learning about the financial ramifications, about how to come out as positively as possible, it's taking so very long and it's so hard. But every now and then I feel a little glimmer of positive anticipation, thinking that I might be able to enjoy my new little tiny apartment, my tranquility and independence again, how I will hopefully be able to remain a positive strong influence in my girl's development.

No physical relationship. Being friends. Managing the household, fixing the sink, depositing the paycheck, helping with the homework, paying the bills. No sex. No more hugs. It's very difficult. It is not a simple case of "friends then lovers followed closely by companionship".

How is Lucky doing? This is his thread, not mine.

-Mr "Niceguy"

October 15, 2005
10:15 pm
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Anonymous
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Lucky, how are you doing? You got us started, didnt you?

Friendship, companionship and other words appeared here that I take for granted I know how to define. Again the "us" issue, what do they mean to the "us" involved is really important. I just realized I use the word cumplicity in a positive sense but why? There are positive words for that like communication, companionship depending on the context.

Thank you for sharing.

October 15, 2005
10:44 pm
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katarina
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Ok I've been reading this thread and I'm married to a man that rather do things with his friends and get into his sport then be with me. Yes, I have tryed everything. I have needs also. Here I am again sitting here at home on a Saturday night alone. He went hunting with the guys. I have been with him going on seven years. there is no passion. I would just like to be kissed! finantially its fine but, there is nothing else. I feel all alone in this marriage. I have made a mistake. He is stable and I live in a beautiful house! but, I would give it all up to be with someone who cares about me.

October 16, 2005
4:56 am
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number three
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MATTEO,

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THIS PERSON THEN WHY ARE YOU THERE?

WHY WOULD YOU STAY?

I WOULDN'T THATS WHY I'M NUMBER THREE.

THREE STRIKES YOUR OUT, WELL ITS NEVER THAT SIMPLE. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE PERSON YOUR WITH THERE HAS TO BE A REASON. LOOKS, LIEING,CHEATING,SUBSTANCE ABUSE??? WHAT IS IT? IS IT SOMTHING THAT CAN BE FIXED???

October 16, 2005
8:51 am
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Matteo
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number three,

Neither would I.

October 16, 2005
10:41 am
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Anonymous
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Number three: If you write in capital letters on the internet it means you're yelling, are you?

Katarina: Just don't be impulsive and get out of the relationship at a whim. You'll see wonderful threads for insight and you may know that you can use the search button above all threads and get so much more there!

😉

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