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Different time zone-inSanity
February 18, 2004
6:38 pm
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Iolanthe
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It has been a while since I shared a thread back in the beginning of February about my boyfriend who went into recovery for the past 3 going on 4 months now and his cold and detached attitude.

I am giving him the space-his initial addiction was gambling and then by the peeling effect of the programme it became in addition,drug & alcoholism and now I believe it is sex addiction. So if he can't have the comfort of the other addictions-he finds escapism in the comfort of other women. This does not necessarily mean that he has sexual intimacy with them. So while I have been concentrating on my own recovery, he has met a women in one of the rooms (AA)He indicated to me that he was pressurised to kiss her but she said that she does not want a relationship-this has been ongoing for about 2 or 3 weeks now-she does not mind picking him up for meetings even though she has to travel about 40 minutes out of her way to pick him up and then travel in the opposite direction to the meeting-Now if this is not an art of subtle manipulation then I'm really clueless-Actual I am just so angry right now.

Now to make these matters more tormenting. We are from different cultural backgrounds-His family has given him an ultimatum should he not do what is expected then they will withdraw the funding to his treatment and he will be on his own-of course by not seeing me-
He told me that his counsellor has directed that we cannot see each other as I am not good for his recovery(in terms of his sex addiction. His counsellor firstly has no knowledge of the other woman in the rooms of which he indicated he was going to lay his "cards on the table" tomorrow on his one and one.We both know that his parents have a hidden agenda in him not seeing me-so for 3 years I was saddled with his active addiction and now well-I don't even want to go there.

I am furious right now. I am so clear headed about the fact that he was never emotionally unavailable and now even worse-his is emotionally f.... up-he is pressurised by his councellor-then his parents-as he has put it-he is nowhere as soon as he has a chance to follow his own train of thought it is blown out of the water. I know this is his recovery but I cannot help but wonder if this isn't emotional blackmail and worst emotional rape. I am baffled by these methods -is it justified to keep someone emotionally displaced by a counsellor and within this programme? or is it just me "trying to rescue that injured animal"

It is so frustrating-he is torn between "I have to cut ties with you as it is expected of me(parents)" and "I know I am able to have a healthy relationship with you".My own recovery from codependance has been hard-I relapsed on his emotional turmoil many times before (I'm happy if he is happy) and now after weeks of hard work on the 12 step -I have indicated to him that for once in this life time-we were able to have emotional honesty and clearly keep our codependancy characterics in check when we were together(briefly) - the healthiest we have ever been than within the 3 years of living together-I can deal with that without having to fall back into my insane abyss. What do councellors do with marriage couples? We lived together for more than 3 years (in our country that constitutes common law marriage) and we are just expected to cut ties and move on.

I clearly need advice-I care and love him dearly.

February 19, 2004
10:38 am
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Zinnie
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Hi L.

I got your message... so here I am... what do you need help with?

I hope I can give it to you...

Let me read the above, and I will post right back.

Z.

February 19, 2004
11:00 am
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Iolanthe
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Thanks Z

I'm just not sure how to deal with all of this especially his confused emotional state-I still have most of his belongings at my new place (we moved at the time he went into therapy)I'm not sure if I should become drastic and pack his things and give it to him. I've said to him that he is no longer my fix and cannot allow him to put me back into another emotional codependancy abyss like it was for the last 3 years and this other woman is his shit to deal with. Its hard right now to walk down the hallway with his photographs on the table or his clothes in the cupboard-Yes, he is enjoying his new found extreme independance but he also wants to be with me. This is beyond emotional confusion

February 19, 2004
11:01 am
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Zinnie
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O.K. - Just really read this.

First, please remind me - you are still living together right? I believe when we last spoke you were thinking of leaving, but he was just now finding his sobriety is that right?

You were dealing with your own co-dependency issues right? Now, were you in counseling - just you or not?

Let's try to just break this down one issue at a time - if that is O.K. with you. Perhaps then it will not seem so overwhelming.

Love,

Zinnie

February 19, 2004
11:10 am
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Zinnie
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Lo,

Is he living there with you now? Or is he living at a treatment facility?

February 19, 2004
11:19 am
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Iolanthe
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Hi Z

He is in a treatment centre coming up for 4 months We lived together up until in went into treatment centre

February 19, 2004
11:22 am
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Iolanthe
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I have had personally therapy one on one for a whole month and now attend CODA meetings at least 3 times a week-

February 19, 2004
11:27 am
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Iolanthe
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I have been dealing with my codependancy issues for the last 3 months I initially attended family counselling within the first month of his treatment with his family and when he went into seconday care-I was asked not to attend the same group as his family-he had to deal with his codependancy issues of me and the facility was too close to home.I travel most of the time on business so it made it difficult to do therapy immediately at the time he booked himself in.

February 19, 2004
11:37 am
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Zinnie
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O.K. - so you really are at a cross roads then.

I knew you were working on your co-dependency issues... how is your own work and therapy coming along?

Also, what is secondary care?

If you don't mind me asking where do you live? What country?

February 19, 2004
12:36 pm
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Iolanthe
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Hi Z
It is been really hard-I have been working on the 12 steps and struggling to get to step 4. I will be seeing my therapist next week after a month again due to my travelling. Secondary care is the next phase after primary care in addiction treatment centres-they are normally not located in the same facility and are spread over the city. The next facility after this is normaly tertiary care-The addict patients are allowed in secondary to go out an find work for those who don't and in my boyfriend's case-he lost his because of his addiction. They also have to attend at least 4 open meetings of their addiction-hence my boyfriend's addiction has now replaced me with the comfort of someone else. We are bound to meet once a week at least at a group meeting where they have CODA,ALANON,AA etc in the same building, but different rooms. He admitted to having all the anxious,racy feelings about me when he seen me there just recently.

I have heard the saying of "cross-roads" today and I am so struggling with all of this. I know deep down that this is his recovery and I am powerless over what has transpired. Do I throw in the towel? One minute he wants me to move on as he admits he is completely and utterly emotionally confused and do not want to hurt me-enjoying the little independance he has now found in his sobriety and the next he cannot bear the thought that I might meet someone new-as indicated I have offered to try and have a social but heathly relationship while he is still in treatment but he is scared he will not be able to because of our history and his codependancy of me. I live in Republic of South Africa

February 19, 2004
2:52 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi Lo,

I guess what speaks to me here is the fact that he is worried about you meeting someone or having a good time with someone else - but yet he is "kissing" someone he has met at a meeting?

Part of AA from my understanding is that they do not recommend a new relationship until a minimum of one year of sobriety because of all the changes they are going through.

It sounds as if you have done so much to help him, so I know this hurts that now - just when he is finally getting better... he is finding else where to go - for lack of a better word. I'm sorry he has done this to you.

You also mention that there are cultural differences and his family does not want him to be with you. How does that affect your relationship?

Try to stay strong... keep breathing deep - it really does help. Well, it helps me - but then I might also have co-workers that wonder if I'm making obscene phone calls! Seriously - it does help.

So, tell me more about the family aspect.

Love,

Zinnie

February 19, 2004
3:05 pm
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themis
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I think what I would really need to be aware of is that this guy is not taking his recovery seriously. It is drummed into everyone in recovery. NO RELATIONSHIPS FOR THE FIRST YEAR and here he is playing with some other lady. I would really question his committment to recovery at this point. Its no mistake that it has been 4 months. I would just have to turn my focus back to myself and put him and the relationship in God's hands. I hate that part of the program.........it just seems trite.......and NOT ENOUGH.......but at the end of the day it is all that is left.

February 19, 2004
4:24 pm
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Iolanthe
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Hi again
I had to go out for a while to visit my girlfriend for a shoulder.It's difficult to speak to people about recoveries and codependancies when they do not understand the concepts or to what they refer but they are still good listeners. Thank you for your replies. It is about 22:33 on a Thursday evening and I have been waiting on the deciding phone call tomorrow.It came this evening

Just to get the pic again. Yes it hurts to know he had met someone and yes it hurts that he was probably not taking his treatment that seriously.After all and thanks T was highlighting that, I have trying and working very hard to get on top of my codependancy issues-To discover how all of it materialised and then become hostage for 3 years of his addiction,losing my sense of independance and self worth by all the subtle guilt trips and emotional manipulation-gee I was and still am determined to get out and stay above it.

The cultural differences that exists between us is our old age Apartheid legacy-however here we are in a new era of a non-racilistic culture in South Africa and unfortunately the older generation (still maintaining a philosophy of a superior race)are too scared to admit to being "color racist" - it is now defined as "class differences" I grew up with an openly discussed and learned literatural political family with histories going back to the 1950's and 1960's during the banning of the now ANC and the Apartheid regime. Thus my up-bringing was very multi-culturalist. It was approached by my boyfriend's therapist at the time and mine-if I wanted to address this racialistic concern of his parents and my answer was exactly as I have just explained and more....."You cannot teach old dogs new tricks -besides they have missed out on truly enjoying all aspects of life" My boyfriend, in one of his conjoints with his parents had also tried to lieu it out of them during discussion of which they did not admit but gladly contributed to my character defects (So yeah, I baby-sat their son and took their problem off their hands for 3 years and took all of the emotional shit that went with it, during which time they never bothered to invite me to their home. By the time he decided to go into treatment-the rest is history. A wicked dysfunctional family who thrives codependantly on their childrens lives.

It brings me to the phone call I was waiting on for tomorrow. I mentioned earlier that I questioned whether the counsellor knew of the relationship he had going with Ms AA-he was going to lay his cards on the table.Now let's face it-he is not to see me because of his codependancy of me and this coupled with the "sex addiction" he cannot possibly continue to see Ms AA.This was my logically "detached" understanding of his process. He called to say he could not talk long-whatever he had to say there was no going back. Something had come up today that he has ignored and in the one on one, he can no longer see or speak to me, he has to concentrate and work on his recovery-my immediate response was, what about Ms AA (I needed some kind of affirmation)and his reply was that it was irrelevant. I insisted in knowing (where was I going with this?-should the counsellor indicate that it was okay to see Ms AA but not me-the parents dearests would get what they want and I would not trust the system in which some treatment centres operated-got the money-own the power.The other was of course-T's comments about not taking the programe seriously because of Ms AA-this would in evitably result in him not being able to see me either way....lost again and gradually I should "win me" back, I guess.He did not answer me on Ms AA -does my latter logic stand as confirmation He said that he called his sister and she would be in contact with me to collect his things-(his mom had insisted in their last conjoint that he had to remove all of his belongings that were left)Time ran out as it normally does and I insisted in calling back-his response was no and the more I insisted(still absorbing the karmic energies which messed me up in the first place)he was still saying good buy and told me to take care and the phone cut off.

Well Z, looks like the system has engineered our cross-roads with all of its negative and positive dynamics.It makes life so very very unfair as if the last sap of energy has to be dispensed - I see a black wall right now-Even though I realised that the "open cards one on one" thing could go either way-I'm so heartsore now even more than when those two boundaries were put in place in the last two months. I have so desperately stayed out of fantasia(trying to address the inner child) and I feel as if I have had to let go of my soul mate even with all of his character defects.

Even though, as you have mentioned in my first thread-we had a chemically emotionally induced relationship for 3 years-we also found each other in that mess that now meant and probably too late, the relationship meant more that just a codependant relationship-we knew how our codependant characteristics worked-what made us "tick" just basic respect.

Tomorrow is going to be so hard and the day thereafter-please send advice on a receipe of sorts and thoughts-I do not want to go back to that horrible emotional abyss of codependancy........

February 19, 2004
4:56 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi Lo,

I'm sorry it came down to this. It really does make me question several things though. First of course - how seriously is he taking his recovery? Sounds like we all know the "suggestion" is that a person not become involved with another for at least a year. Not only did he show interest in another, but he let go of his long term relationship, and the person who was willing to help him to boot.

Something else that might be at play here, and this might be on the subconscience level, he might not even be aware of doing this. But... could it be that you are getting help. You are aware of your own co-dependancy traits, and you are working hard at breaking those bonds right? Well... what happenes when one partner gets well, and the other doesn't? From what you have shared, I'm gathering that you re the stronger of the two in the relationship on many fronts. You are well educated, and from what I can see a self starter and motivated. You saw there was a problem in the way things were so you jumped right up to change them for the better.

Him? I know you love him - that much is evident. But... he is dependant on you financially as he lost his job, and you are working and footing the bills right? He is still dependant on his family, he is letting them dictate who he is with. They do not approve of you, and they have made that very clear. Just as you said, you are good enough to baby sit their man/child and put up with the stuff that goes with it, but not good enough for him to marry? Sorry... does not work that way. You deserve their respect and gratitude for what you have done for their son. The fact that they do not realize this, I know it hurts now, but in the long run? Be glad you are rid of them.

So - I'm wondering if somewhere deep down, he knows that you are getting better - and he will not be able to pull any kind of stunts on you, without you being on to him. Another alcoholic (in his mind) just might be more sympathetic to him if and when he back slides.

Does this make sense?

I know you love him, it shows in all you have been through and are trying to do to help him. But, at this point, there is nothing more you can do.

I know it hurts right now, and I wish you were not having that hurt. But, it will get better. I promise it will.

Continue on with your recovery, for you. When you do this and as you grow you will find out more about what it is exactly that you are really wanting in a life mate.

Again... I'm sorry that it did not come out the way you really wanted - but know this. You have your dignity. You can be proud of the person that looks back at you in the mirror when you are brushing your teeth. Do something nice for yourself, especially this weekend. Meet up with some friends, get your hair or nails done... something. Just move on.

One day, trust me he will wake up and realize that he gave up the best thing in his life. The thing of it is... the best thing in his life - that is you my dear - will be in a better place.

I hope this helps you somewhat... I'm here if you need to talk. Just put my name on a thread again like you did, and I'll listen anytime.

Take care, and be strong.

Love,

Zinnie

February 19, 2004
5:45 pm
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Iolanthe
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Thankyou so much Z

I am still very teary right now and hurting so much-I wish I was in that angry space I was in recently-at the point when he told me he was still seeing Ms AA and I said that she was his own Sh...and had to deal with. It made me feel so much better and easier to detach.

I do not want to be an addict for relationships nor love but this hurts so much. Yes, he was financially dependent on me and now has shifted his dependancy onto his family-well they gave him an ultimatum. Yes, I have been the stronger of the two-and to a large degree,he admitted that I made logical sense when I brought up his "sex addiction"and Ms AA-as I addressed an issue can an addict be pulled apart emotionally as he has been to the point that he is neither here not there-completely emotionally displaced that he does not know where he is at?

I did jump right in and as I now see it try and rescue the situation-causing him to have an open-card One-on-One. Is this still an aspect of codependancy or jumping in with detachment? He always seemed a bit obsessed with whether I had met someone? and lately had realised that I had not which he constituted as me holding on! This is confused even more by having said-I need to move on-but at the same time he felt safe that I was still holding on. I guess I'm running in a circle here like his emotions normally do-so before I de-rail-enough said of what he thought.

You are right on many aspects and that is why I chose to write you-You have what we call "ichenin" or insight even though there are pages of grief to get through and are still able to get the jest of it all.

Thanks again and for the advice,I will join the threads a little later as I feel stronger.

love

Iolanthe

February 20, 2004
7:42 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi IO,

What a sweet thing to say to me! I don't know about insight... per say - perhaps just experience?

In any case, I just wanted to check in on you and see that you are O.K.

Hoping you are well.

Love,

Z.

February 21, 2004
3:56 pm
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themis
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I am so sorry. I know of that abyss. There is another side to it. I have come through only to return on the odd occassion but it does pass. It the darkest moments that is what I remember....."this to, will pass'
God bless

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