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Depressed Again
April 12, 2001
2:19 pm
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Molly
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Hey, slap therapy here, why language the closing as being bad? This is your freedom ceremony. You are going to be beautiful, arrogant, focused, business like and out of there. Your future is so bright your going to need shade!! It was me that said women need women, not the manager, she was confused why so many heterosexual women were stuck, and angry with their mates. I think a best friend has always been more understanding than a man, its like cats and dogs, they can get along, but do they really get it, the being of the other? We talked about lesbians, and those that are complete with the sexuality difference, understand that the relationships are more about companionship and understanding. Not that I am promoting this life style, but I sure understand it. I have been lucky enough to have had a couple of very close women friends while the girls were growing up, I miss that bond more than anything. Even when my husband and I had split up, my life was so full of fun, sad but true, more fun than marriage is because I had a girl friend, that understood the highs and lows, who could share a bottle of wine, and paint our toes while watching a movie, and not care about the house being clean. For some reason its different with a husband. My nights were not lonly because my dog snuggles better than my spouse, and doesn't pull the blankets. there is a cost for everything, don't misunderstand, its not that I regret the return, its just that it was not all that bad being alone. Maybe some of us just were not ment to be married? Its hard. But God never gives us more than we can handle, so go to that closing and give him something to think about. Be your best.

April 12, 2001
11:56 pm
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grass
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You can do the closing. I know it's hard to face him...to face yourself too, because you find yourself faced with your needs to fell whole with a mean, etc and you may start to doubt your reasons for leaving him and wonder if there was something that could have been done to stop this etc...DON'T LET YOURSELF FORGET WHY YOU ARE DOING THIS, for your your self-respect, your dignity, your inner desire to know what "real" wholeness is like (probably something you have never experienced), and your inner hope that there is a life out there that is better than one with him and one worth living.

I know what it is like to be emotionally neglected, abused, all together disrespected as a human-being and woman. It's not worth putting up with, regardless of what other benifits you may perceive to have received from the relationship. It's obvious that he is not going to change his ways and girl...I say thank-you God that you have decided to. Don't hold back...and take a hard look at yourself in mirror and SMILE 🙂 saying I am worth everything that I can give myself.

April 16, 2001
6:48 am
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Grass,

I absolutely hated myself this morning until I read your response. I spent the WHOLE holiday weekend with my friends and family and didn't I go and spoil it all by CONSTANTLY thinking about HIM! I did exactly what you said -- I started doubting myself and wondered if I maybe should have tried to talk to him harder and was this feeling I'm feeling now worth it. And giving up my nice home -- maybe I should have stuck it out? Look where I am now! Stuck in limbo. I'm still living with my girlfriend with my furniture in storage!

BUT when I got your post this a.m. I sat back and said "your right - my self-respect and dignity absolutely mean more to me than anything". I took a stance "you either treat me with respect or I'm outta here". He refused to say the words I HAD to hear -- "I'm sorry I did that to you and a hug would have worked too". But those words never came out of his mouth, so this has been the end result.

I will go on with my life whatever it may be. That's what is so scary. Making my next move tho!

Thanks sooo much for your response.

Thanks Grass - This site is the greatest - I do listen and re-read over and over again what each of you have said and try so hard to let it penetrate my sometimes thick scull!!!!!!

April 16, 2001
7:41 am
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Molly, Molly, Molly,

So glad to read your words. You haven't left me! I will, I will, I will be beautiful, arrogant, focused, and business-like. I can put on a very good show. Like the two times we went out to dinner the week after I left him. I was completely void of (showing) my feelings. Acted like I was happy with my decision (showed no regret) and waited and hoped he would make a move. He didn't! I don't know why I expected anything else. He talked about how much he missed our cat and the fact that he no longer had a TV to watch since I took all of them. I just looked at him! Never a word about missing me. I think he was TRYING to say that, but he wouldn't. This is why I left. Because he can't show me feelings. I don't want to hear about you missing our cat or the TV. Are you for real! If he would have apologized - I know I would have been stupid enough to run back to him. But, I'm not completely out of my mind. I still showed I had some dignity left by not even trying to make a move towards a reconcillation. That would have had to come from him and it didn't - so here I am!

A friend of my girlfriend and her husband (who I am living with) died on Easter and I couldn't help thinking - "Why couldn't that be me?" I guess you could say I sort of slumped back into that whole over the weekend. Maybe I'm incurable! I was in and out all 3 days. Couldn't keep my mind on anything I was doing. Couldn't eat on Friday and Saturday, although I did eat on Sunday a little. Wondering what he's doing and what we would be doing if we were still together. I absolutely hate myself.

Again your right - I do have a more meaningful relationship with my girlfriends and am able to talk and laugh more than I did with him. I just kept forcing myself to remember why I left him - his attitude - his uncaring manner. I'm sure he cared, but I needed shown that. Not just go day in and day out without a show of concern for me or what I needed. There was definitely something lacking there. He couldn't fulfill what I needed. Doesn't everyone want to be held and told that they are loved? Isn't this what SHOULD come with marriage? I swear that's all I ever wanted - SHOW ME you care - not just walk in and out and tell me what YOUR plans are for the weekend, etc. I didn't need a constant reminder, but maybe once in awhile. I have to believe that it's true your statement about some of us not made to be married (although it's hard to admit that I could be one of "those" because I would let him walk all over me - just not to start an argument. I think that is probably my problem. But, I never asked for much - just a show of affection. There were missed birthdays, valentine's day, Xmas's and anniversaries that I expected something from him. If you can't tell me the words - then at least don't forget the holidays. He didn't forget all of them, but half of them. I don't believe men should be excused for not remembering anniversaries, etc. Some men are very caring that way. I've seen it. I think if a man cared enough about the relationship - he would have at least made an effort to show something. Our fifth anniversay went by and he never mentioned it.

Oh, Well Molly, I'm back to work today and hoping I can get my head screwed on right again.

Thanks again for listening and please don't stop!

April 16, 2001
9:17 am
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Molly,

Ah ha !~ I think, sitting here, I've figured out why I can't move with my life and the fact that I'm stuck. It's because I'm still at the point where I'm unconsciously waiting for a reconcilation to happen! I can't think about moving on because of that. I'm not looking to the future. I can't even think of going there. I know I can't go back, but I can't seem to go ahead either. It's making me crazy. But, at least I know why I'm in slumpsville! I look to the future as bleak without him. But, I hated the uncaring times I spent with him. I think I'm nuts! I know my family and friends think I should be over him by now. I don't talk about him with them at all. Only here do I dare mention how I feel.

Figure that one out??????

April 16, 2001
12:38 pm
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Molly
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We all heal at a different rate of time, and depending on how full our lives are, how much success we have going on at the moment, I think all goes in to the calculation, and expectation. Heck too, the older we are the less resiliant, lighten up for crying out loud. You took a stand, and the outcome was a shocker. So he wasn't worthy, and now you doubt if you were worthy of the demands? Typical female stuff, keep in mind what you would tell your daughter to do and that might help keep you on tract. Now you need new goals, to feed your spirit. You most likely had the holiday fantasy blues, and sunk into depression over the death of the dream, but in reality the dream was dead due to Prince Charming's lack of charm. Think of the other side of the holiday fantasy blues, it would have been him gone to his family, or all about his family, no gift, or card for you, not understanding the need for all the fuss for the holiday, and why should I go to your family's house. So, next holiday you'll get it!!! Next holiday, you can make a fantasy that will be true, because it is all about you this time. So with the proceeds from your sale, and since you have a good job, get searching for your dream cottage, with a rose or lavender garden, not to big, to demand to much of your time, but just big enough for you. If you work in the city, then find a place out of town for the weekends, that your kids will want to visit you at, get out of the past and into the future. Now!!!! Molly's RX for today. Its the limbo thing, as soon as you get out of it, you will be better, quit the doubt, take a stand on your decision, and when you feel weak, make a list of why you left and why you should have continued to spend the rest of your life the way it was, that should make you laugh at your self, silly girl.

April 17, 2001
5:59 am
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Hi Molly,

As usual, your advice is "right on"! I'm just numb today! Waiting for the closing is like walking down death row.

Hang in there with me please!

April 17, 2001
11:02 am
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I'm here :)...so are the others. I'll pray for you, K? You are so very brave

April 17, 2001
11:36 am
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Molly
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Get your attitude adjusted, where is the pay off in thinking that this is death row????? What is this a pansy wilting in the sunlight? Come on your a rose that is about to bloom! A prize winning rose, that needs the sunlight, shine on woman.

April 17, 2001
11:40 am
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Thanks Grass --- Thanks Molly!!!!! I'm trying!

April 17, 2001
4:02 pm
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Molly
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Luck wishing and trying,like Nike says, just do it. Sometimes we must fake it till we make it, be the best darn academy award actress on the awards show, get your lucky stone and put it in your pocket, keep your hands in your pockets, its all about appearance, and attitude, I'll let you fall apart when you get home, if your not cracking up at what an idiot he made of himself, ok.

April 18, 2001
6:35 am
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Molly,

I'm putting on a show for the whole world. You would NEVER guess anything is wrong with me. I should get an award. HE won't make an idiot of himself -- he's Mr. Perfect. Always bubbly in front of people - he's an award winner! Meanwhile I feel like I'm decaying from the inside out. I can't BELIEVE that every (and I do mean every) waking minute I'm going over and over and over everything that has happened the last 7 years. It just won't go away. I'm still trying to look to the future - but I'll be just damned - I don't see ANYTHING! I'm squinting and still can't get past my stupid life without him. (I got it bad huh?) Am I incurable? There's a lump in my throat all day trying to swallow and stop the tears. This goes on all day. I hate the feelings.

I do know all the reasons why I left him are still the same. I gave up all my associations with my friends and most of my family because of him. I don't mean "I" gave them up - I mean trying to associate as a couple with them didn't work because he was always miserable with eveyone.

Sometimes I don't know what I'm talking about anymore. I'm just tired of going over and over it and thinking if I talk about it the hurt will go away - but it isn't going away.

I'm so sorry for wasting everyone's time on this site. Oh, oh, there I go feeling sorry for myself (tears and all). I have to take a walk before I choke!

April 18, 2001
7:15 am
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I'm back again. I had a new thought! I think why I feel so terrible is because I feel "rejected". Even though I left him, I gave him a chance to stop me and he didn't!! I wrote him a note and told him -- "It doesn't have to come to this - just say your sorry for what you did and tell me you love me". And I came home after work and found the note in the waste basket and he never ever mentioned it ever. So even tho I left him - my heart and soul is feeling very rejected. The only thing he ever, ever said one time was "I never said I wanted a divorce!" That was after I already filed and the only words he ever spoke during the 2 months we lived together, but never spoke to each other. He didn't know how to undo what he did, so he would flip out and start slamming doors when we TRIED to talk. He yelled "I want a realtor up here THIS WEEKEND!" So, I went and got one. He was so busy with the realtor showing the house to ALL the people who came to see it. I never saw one person come into the house because I ran. I couldn't stand to see someone come and walk through MY house. It felt like an invasion of my life. I wouldn't come home from work until it was time to go to bed just to avoid running into anyone.

From the very first argument we had - his first response was "I'm going to put a for sale sign up in the front yard". I'm going to sell this house. He KNEW that that house was something I loved so much - so he used it against me and it hurt like hell. But, as usual, I would be the one who made an approach to patch things up. But, this time I DIDN"T. So, he just let it happen and never tried to stop it. I don't think he really wanted this to happen, but his pride wouldn't let him come to me and say he was sorry.

After I left he called me at work one day and we talked a little and I said - so, where are you moving to? And he said I'm moving in with you and I just sort of laughed. We had gone out 2 times to dinner and talked about taxes, bills, etc. I know he was waiting for me to say something about missing him, etc. but I couldn't do it. That was during the first 2 weeks that I left. And he never would say it either. He talked about missing the cat and missing a TV and ------------------------- Oh, why am I going on like this? UGH UGH UGH. I'm so sorry! It's just that today is 4 weeks since he has called me and I'm feeling rejected!

April 18, 2001
10:04 am
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grass
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keep talking, keep putting all the memories down. your not wasting anyones time, we choose to go onto your thread, because we like you :). You have alot of memories that are bothering you, get them all out and eventually you will have it all off of yourshoulders. It's like you are carrying a big garbage bag over your shoulders and when you talk/write down what bothers you, you are throwing a piece of that garbage out, making the load lighter, just remember that when you rid youself of the garbage to keep it at the dump. (how many pl. put their garbage out and then saw, wait I think I want all those cleenexs I've cried in back?)

I know that it doesn't feel like it will ever stop swarming your head, but it will...in time. Time does heal, you just have to make sure that with time you aren't adding more garbage to the bag.

April 18, 2001
1:20 pm
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Thanks Grass!!!

I keep talking because there are so many unanswered questions in my mind. Why did he do what he did to me? I don't understand and I guess I never will get the answers. I thank you and all of you who have tried to help me. I really don't know what I would have done without your being there. I guess there was a reason that something led me to this site. I never knew it was here and all of you are trying to help so many people with their problems. Your advice is very good because in your own way - you have all been there or you wouldn't have been able to give the advice that you do. Your right, the weight on my shoulders is very, very heavy now. If there was a sure and quick way to dump all this garbage, I would do it.

I just got a call that the closing is on April 30th at 4:00. There goes my pretty little home and my security down the drain. I can't believe he is still living there - all the furniture is gone except for the bedroom set and a kitchen table and 1 chair that I left him. I wonder what is taking him so long to leave. Oh well, another unanswered question.

His last words were "I'll call you to let you know what the final payoffs are on the utilities are". That was 4 weeks ago and he never has called (I have the checkbook with just enough left to pay the utilities).

I did call the doctor today and he is going to put me on Prozac!

Thanks for listening!!!!!!!!!!!

April 18, 2001
4:35 pm
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Hey, this is your life, and your choice. If you want to call and say do you think this is worth saving, and reconcille, no judgement. He didn't necessarily do anything to you, it is just who he is, accept or reject. Period. You keep talking about the house, its not to late to cancel, can you buy it? Is it the house or him? Security, what security, we make that with in our selves, comfort, yea there goes the "comfort", but you said you weren't comfortable with HIM. As long as you are so unhappy, would going back to him be a potential solution, with some counseling? Your a big girl, and perhaps with some insight as to who he is, and a stronger sense of self, you might make it, if that is a better picture of the future than the one of being single, I am sorry but this is all on your plate, misery sucks, and unless you are committed one way or another your in limbo, and miserable. hell, being our age is scarey to start all over, so again, no judgement, just be sure about what you really want.

April 19, 2001
6:38 am
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Moly,

Molly,

I hear what your saying. It's me who needs to accept the decision I made. I did it because I was feeling "used". I was just another of his "good deals" that came along and as long as everything was going the way he wanted - everything was O.K. for him. No, there was alot of misery there. I pushed so much of it away and ignored so many things in order to stay married that I know I couldn't go back to accepting life as he wanted it to be. As long as things would go his way there wasn't a problem. But, if I threw an iron in the fire by saying I didn't want to do "this or that" then the arguing would start. NO, I can't go back. I know the reasons why I left. No signs of love or affection. Everything for his friends and family, etc. That will never change and I can't be a rug for any man. The house is gone! There's no way to stop the sale now even if I wanted to. Last year when I filed the first time, I thought about buying the house myself, but decided there was WAY TOO MUCH work involved with the acreage, etc. I know I sound like I want to go back, but it would have to be on my terms and that would never happen, I know that. It can't be all one-sided and that's the way it was with him. Basically, he may have been a pretty good guy, but very, very selfish. I'm just having a hard time understanding why he wouldn't even try to work things out half-way. It was his way or no way. The reason I left is because I doubted his love for me and I still do now because he hasn't even tried to find out why this happen. I guess he is thinking "this is the way I am - you except it or you don't. I'm not changing"! This is part of the rejection I feel because he never tried to stop me from leaving.

I know your trying to show me the other side of the coin and that's good. Eventually, someday I will overcome these feelings. If I never see him again, then you can't mourn for something that's not there anymore.

Your probably getting frustrated with me because I'm not "getting it". Over and over I re-read your posts and KNOW what you have said is the best advice I could have - but I guess it's some kind of quirk in my own personality that holds on too long after the barn door is closed. I know there is nothing anyone can do for me but offer me support which is what I am getting here. I have to do this myself and eventually I will.

I started on the Prozac yesterday, so maybe that will help somewhat!

I'm afraid one day I'll come into this site and see that everyone has left me because of moaning and groaning. I hope not! I need your support - and thanks for your help from the bottom of my heart "THANKS".

April 19, 2001
6:49 am
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P.S. Molly,

Remember last year when I said I filed for divorce. I hadn't moved out of the house, but I did the very same thing I did now. I became very depressed. He wouldn't approach me then with a solution or even suggest that he needed to change anything he was doing. I just got so miserable that I went up to him and said "I need a hug and let's try to work this out". He said o.k., but that's ALL HE EVER SAID - we never talked about it again. So, there would never be any sense to going through this all over again. In a marriage I was always told "It takes two" to make it work. I've been banging my head against a wall by myself trying to go along with everything he wants and I just can't do it anymore. I know I'll eventually come out of it, but I just am looking for some magical way to stop the hurt while I build a new life for myself. As I've done in the past -- I'll look back on this and thank God it happened. As I look back on my 2 other failed relationships, I can honestly say that was for the best.

Thanks Sweetie for listening again and yes, everything you have said makes very good sense. I know it, but need to REALLY accept what has happened.

April 19, 2001
9:18 am
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Molly,

P.P.S. I just re-read the list of 47 reasons why I left him. Sure there are some of the "good" times we had that I miss about being with him, but the scales are down on the negatives. There were a "few" times he led me to believe he cared. But, not enough. I still felt like a caretaker for him most of the time. I just read on CNN where Jane Fonda filed for divorce from Ted Turner!!! She's 63 and awaiting the birth of her first grandson. The article stated she became a Christian also and he couldn't accept that. She said he wanted 100% of her time and she felt like a babysitter for him! It sounds sort of like what was going on in my life. Not that I became religious, but ever since my first grandson was born last January - that's when the marriage started falling apart. Even tho he was asked to be the "Godfather" and he accepted, he really wanted no part of my spending time with the baby. He accused me of "babysitting too much". He was very jealous of that baby. In fact when I first told him my daughter-in-law was pregnant - his response was "Oh, that's great - just what they (my son and daughter-in-law needs). VERY SCARCASTIC. Looking back now I realize he never accepted this. I tried so hard to include him - we all did. At the hospital, when he was being born, I would call him every half hour telling him how the birth was coming along and he was very cold and uncaring. Just would say "Oh yea" and then hang up. He hasn't seen the baby since Xmas and doesn't care if he ever sees him apparently. I guess I should have expected that since he never bothers with his own 3 grandchildren. He pays them no attention - when he calls his daughter (every other day) and one of the grandkids would answer he would say "put your mother on the phone". Not a "hey, how are you kids - what's new", etc.

I just thought that interesting about Jane Fonda. Of course, she has all the money in the world to make a new life for herself. But, I guess it doesn't matter at what financial stage you are in - if you want a new life for yourself - you find a way to fulfill your desires.

Sorry to make this so long. Thanks for reading it.

April 19, 2001
1:15 pm
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The man is who he is. He appears to be consistant in his lack of demonstration of affection. Most likely the same as he was raised. We women often pick unavailable men, due to the challenge, or our fantasy of it will change. It doesn't and then we are surprised. My man is no different. If it wasn't due to the agressive, persistance of his overly needy and committed to make a family man out of his father oldest son, my guy wouldn't give his grandchildren the time of day. But they are darn cute, and with the daily forced interaction created by his son, who was damn persistant, they wouldn't have a clue as to who he was!!!But for four years, he takes his two children to his fathers office daily, doesn't have to, but did and it worked. Then my man put the pressure on me. During the first phase of our marriage, my guy no different that the one you left, I had unrealistic expectations of being the Brady Bunch, and he so completely fell short all four kids missed out, he was selfish, closed off, and duh, self centered. Couldn't care less, and then when I left for a year, realized all that he had been missing. Now, he is still the same person, but I accept him, and draw boundry lines for me. Discussing the birth of your grandson, when his son't wife went into labor, they were seperated, he called us at 4 am, looking for support and guidance, I said go to the hospital, and I will tell your dad, now what hospital, I am going to work, and will call . I went in and told my man, and his response to the first child to be born, what the hell am I supposed to do, leave me alone woman, I am sleeping. I was outraged, again. As it ended up, I was the very first family member to see the baby. But hell, if the lakers had been playing that night, do you think he would have bothered to stop by the hospital?But Easter Sunday, it was him, that was insistant on hiding eggs, all over the front lawn!! Now my girls and I have been struggling with relations for the last year, things are healing great. He has been totally aware. My oldest has decided to have a birthday party in her home for my youngest's 21st birthday, they live 2 hours from here. I told him last week when I got the call, that I wouldn't go with out him. Last night he dropped a hint, what time are you leaving for the party on Sunday? I ignored it. This morning, he announced that the playoffs start this weekend, and the Lakers are playing Sunday, and that he is swamped with work, and will be working all weekend, I just looked up from the paper, and didn't say one word. 5 minuets later, I get a big kiss. 15 minuets later, I get a well, I could go if you really want me to, they have TV's up there. Hey do you need money? 30 minuets later, hey do you think we should take a trip to Mexico? I still haven't said a word about the party, and he is nervous. Now, its in my ballpark. To be honest, I don't want to go, but should, I don't blame him, but should I make him wrong? is it wrong? Is it who he is? My first thought, sure, its all about you, its all about your family, and God forbid I don't support what you think I need to support when it comes to them, but I kept my mouth shut, because it serves nothing. Is he really any different than me? Don't I want him to be as wrapped up in me and mine, and he wants me wrapped up in him, and his? Its all in our attitude. What we are willing to pay, for what we want, in what ever form. Do I take money and a trip to off set a birthday party and four hour drive? Do I say yes its important to me for you to join me, and make him go? What hill do you want to die on, I guess is the way I look at life.
Are you doing any sort of exercise? I think you need to change your rut. You can whine, and I can call you on it, but I don't think I will abandon you. I do wonder if in your current process, you might identify where you played into this, and that is creating your self doubt. perhaps looking at your role in the relationship with unrealistic expectations, or real, you know this answer, but if you do stay in this pity party mode, it will continue to effect your health. Watch how that prozac effects you, and again, get out to the gym, take some yoga. Ted Turner also stated that he was suicidal when she left. men just show things different than women. If I remember, when they first split up it was because she gave up who she was, and became a care taker, she lost her identity. I have seen people who suddenly become christian, become like alcoholics, or drug addicts, still out of balance, and sure that is going to effect the relationship. That too, was one of the things that effected ours. When we met, I was in real estate, fast moving, social, then became a social worker, slow, fat, tell me your problems and diagnosing everyone. He hated it. I made the choice to go back to real estate in Feb. He could care less if I made a dime, because now we have our commonality back,but I miss the other, but can allready identify the difference he languaged.The most important thing is for you to find your peace with you, some happiness, nothing is perfect, and there is a cost for each and every choice that we make, what do you want to pay, and how? Just know that no matter what, it is up to you to be happy, and how you find it, with whom you choose to share it, but it is easier when we aren't looking for others to create it, or complete it. sucks huh.Where is the machine where we can put the quarter in to make it all perfect?

April 20, 2001
7:53 am
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Molly,

Your guy has made considerable effort to change. I can tell from what have said. I do think that you should encourage him to go to your daughter's birthday party. It's for you and he should be there for you. Your daughters would be very disappointed if you weren't there and why disappoint them? Your guy is different than mine in that if I would have dragged mine with me he would have gone, but would have pouted and been closed mouth with everyone there. So, who needs that? I would rather have not gone or gone by myself. If yours joins in then yes, take him. Yes, I did want mine wrapped up in me and mine as I did for him and his. But, there was no me and mine, as far as he was concerned. I don't think your guy is jealous of your daughter's (maybe disinterested is more the word). He doesn't deny that you go, but he would rather be doing something else (as most men always would). I think if you don't let them know how important something is to you - they don't get the message themselves. We think "you should know how I feel without me telling you). But, they don't think that way. You have to come right out and say it - don't expect they should think for themselves. My point is "if you can't do things together - then why be married?" My feelings on marriage (be it wrong or right) was always that you did do things together. If you don't have him by your side when you need him them you might as well go through life without him. If they can't join in then why are we with them?

I have a strong believe that your getting more out of your relationship than I did --- somewhere along the line your guy is showing or telling you that he cares for you. That is the difference between "putting up" with certain things that can't be changed and just being able to tolerate them. There were alot of things I didn't like that were going on in our marriage and I DID tolerate them. But, when he totally disrespected me along with not telling me that he loved me or cared for me - I couldn't take it! I think you are way to wise about life to just stay for the sake of being married. There's a big difference to - your guy came back at you 15 minutes later asking you if you wanted him to really go, etc. Guilty conscious! Mine would NEVER have come back to me. He would simply not talk about it again. No discussion. Just avoidance of issues. Drove me crazy - didn't know what he ever was thinking. Just curious -- what was it like for the year you were seperated? Did you keep in touch often. Who made the first move? How did you get back together? Were there promises made? Were there discussions on what happened. Were you really "apart" for a year?

I'm not one to excercise Molly. I would rather have my teeth pulled! My evenings have been quite filled actually. I go to bed early because I start work early. So, I spend a few nights with my girlfriend and 1 night going country line dancing and the others with my Grandson. I never want another man in my life at my age. There are too many problems with men and I refuse to get hurt again.

I think my problem (in the marriage) was I devoted my whole life to him. I was ALWAYS there waiting for him to come home from work. Greeting him, then cooking for him and just always hanging out around him. What do YOU want to do now and what do YOU want to watch on TV. I never had any other interests but him (until the baby came). I know this now was very unhealthy for me. I should have had my own interests. I totally depended on him for my entertainment. I never wanted to leave him to go with my friends when they called me because not only did I want to spend my time with him, but I was afraid he would be mad if I chose to go with my friends for an evening. That's why I'm so lost now - I'm used to waiting on him hand and foot.

What did you mean "In your current process you might identify where you played into this creating my own self-doubt". Please explain that one to me again.

I just found out (through the realtor) that he isn't living there anymore, but needs the weekend to completely move out. Now please tell me why the big secret! 2 Days after I left HIM - he called me at work and said - why the big secret - where did you move to? I told him and he asked me for the telephone number and I gave it to him. Although, he said he would never call me at my friends house, only at work. But, now it's a big secret with him and where he moved to. Is he doing this to hurt me? To make me curious? Not happy with where he moved to? 5 weeks ago he told me he would call me with the final figures for the payoffs on the utilities, but he hasn't called yet. Each day seems a little harder than the day before. I know it's over now - no hope of him calling to reconcile which is why my big disappointment. I'm admitting that to you and you alone. How can he go on with his life without me when I'm finding it almost impossible to function without him. I hate ME for feeling this way. I guess I have been hoping for this in the back of my mind and not admitting it to anyone. I would never call him, but was hoping that he would call me. I think he will get over me alot faster than I am him. He will go out where there are people and make new relationships. But, I wonder if he will ever try marriage again. If he does (I hope it works for him really) I don't think he will ever be happy because he doesn't know what he wants. How much did he really care for me if he could let his pride stand in the way of not apologizing and just letting me walk away. I guess I have to be honest with myself and understand the feelings I felt for him were not "mutual" on his part, which is really hard to digest. I wonder what he's doing with his life now. Questions, Questions, Questions. I have to stop thinking about him!!!! I truly believe now when he asked me to dinner the first two weeks after I left him that on both occasions he was waiting for me to say "I don't want this divorce" and I didn't say it because I needed for him to say it and he didn't. Your have no idea how stubborn and prideful he is. That's all I ever heard from his sister when I first met him. Always, always talking about him being so stubborn. She never knew anyone like him that could be so stubborn.

Your career choice in real estate seems like it fits you well, but I would imagine the other career could get you a little depressed at times. Listening to other people's problems all the time. But, then again in retrospect, it makes you see life as it really is. Was the real estate taking up too much of your time away from him? Does he expect you to be beside him all the time? Do you have other interests that you do? I have seen some marriages that have worked where each of the couples do their own "thing" and it works.

I know your right about making peace with myself. I know I have to create my own happiness. I know all this to be true! But ..........

April 20, 2001
11:30 am
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Molly,

P.P.S I just got a call from the realtor. She said she left 2 messages on the phone at home for him to get in touch with her concerning a water problem they discovered. She then called me to see if I knew where he was. I told her to call his sister and gave her the number. His sister said "He's out of town and I don't know where he is - he only told me he would be back in town over the weekend and that he would call her when he came in". I'm not completely sure I believe that story because he has always "pretty much" confided in his sister. My friend's husband thinks he is playing games with me. I wonder why the big secret. What are your thoughts?

April 20, 2001
12:45 pm
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What I ment regarding discovery, was the fact that you gave up your life for him. You waited on him hand and foot, and yada yada yada. We really become so boring, needy and dependent. I had the same thought process in the beginning of our marriage, including the fantasy of working together, for our goals. Hehe, what a joke on us women. They want it all as much as we do. They I do believe want us to wait on them hand and foot, but they also want us to be the independent interesting women that they met. We need to learn balance, that appears to be what my mate and I have learned to establish. He has fineally gotten it that if his wife is happy, he will have peace :).My guy is a born and raised Hispanic, with mucho machisimo, as well as a poor father figure bio dad, and a cruel, cold, but well intentioned stepfather. His mother and old fashioned tortilla slapping at the stove 24hours a day mom, with grandchildren camping out there for weeks, as well as unsuccessful children. So we had culture shock on top of it all. I swear in his Armani suits and the Porche he drove on top of being a successful business man I didn't have a clue, but all came out later. My guy was the same cold selfish snit your man was with worse scenarios. In 98 my depression peaked with my mothers death, and my youngest's leaving the nest. We had been seperated for on month before my mom died, and he came home while I was out of state. Nothing resolved, within 6 months he was out again. Everything was in my name. After weekend visits, he had his cake and ate it too, my house was on the market. He is sorta of a Real Estate big cheese out here, and thought I would never be able to sell the house. I kept asking where are we going with this, he never answered. Any way, I got an out of the area realtor to sell the house, and he didn't know, we went out on a date one night things were going well, and he dropped on me that he rented a house the next morning. I said I see how your concept of reconcilliation is working. Then 2 weeks later he e-mailed me and said no more financial support. I said fine. Then we went to a Christmas party, and he went into his rage again. I made up my mind that night. Now mind you, I had been like a spider weaving my web, and pulled all my strings in. We went to the party on a Thursday, and by Sunday, I had the house completely empty and gone. He came by and was shocked. I called him to let him know I was alive, and the threats, were shocking. It was like he was so surprised that I did it, like he wanted to be married, but live appart. No way. He had been in therapy for the entire time. He was suddenly interested in couples counseling again, and this would be the 10th attempt, but since he had done so much time individually I thought give it a chance, so I drove down every 2 weeks for the session, Starting in February, I was still in limbo. I had to quit the job I had the house fell out of escrow, I suggested in Feb, that we move back in and try, he said no. In March I caught him cheating and that did it. No conversation. It was sad, and funny, I assumed he had something all along, and said why did you lie, you are seperated, but what was all of this phoney effort? he had arranged for us to divorce in August, strange but the date to go to Mexico was our anniversery. Like manipulation to get back together, stating he did not want this, yada yada, as it turned out we could not divorce down there. So I went home, and he was surprised and disappointed. I felt free, had started to live again in March when I was out of limbo. In December he made the first move, he called me drunker than a skunk, crying etc. Then a week later he showed up on my door step, a totally different man. He had gotten his diabetes undercontroll, which caused a dr jeckel mr hyde, I called him sybil, and had lost about 100lbs. He was happy loving and the promises oh my
God. I think his origional intention was to have me stay up there and he stay down here forever, but I said that is not marriage, and no way to repair a marriage. Its together or nothing, he logically could not close his business and move up, or was not willing to take that financial risk, and in reality it unfortunately made sense. So by Feb I moved back. My daughters did a flip out, and it was a real set back for me. With his reaction, it made things so bad, I was willing to leave again. The promises, were left ignored, and told to get real. Then after hearing his pain, when he snooped in my e-mail and found out that I had actually been dating up North, and the guilt trip he tried to lay on me failed miserably when I let him know that great expectations called and wanted to know if he would renew his membership. That was a good day. By July the BS and games, and controll, and shit, came to pretty much of an end, smooth sailing that has just gotten smoother. My you can pay me to leave or pay me to stay, my taking a stand on what I need and want, my lack of participation in his drama needs, not co-signing any of his crap, and my not making him wrong for not wanting everything I want, not making him wrong, for my giving up all for him, getting balance in my life, and believing in me, is what made the difference. We worked through it, we are still working through it, but it is not one sided any more. He has jumped through every hoop. I don't have all I want, we don't see eye to eye on everything, but have learned to understand the difference, and cherish that. Since we had been through divorce before and discussed it, prior to our seperation, how, we both knew that if we knew then what we knew now, the prior marriages could have worked. But when your in the thick of things you cant see it. So in Feb, when we spoke of reconcilliation, it was either go through all of this with some stranger again, or try hard to hold on to what we did have and that was history. I don't know if there is any other couple that has loved or hated each other as much as we did. I went completely cold, I did not care about him, I wanted him to rot slowly in hell, for a while, then I wanted him to just have a good life, and then I didn't think of him at all. I had to get to that place of no anger, just resolve. He made all the moves, and most looking back were pure manipulation, but hey it is working. men process different than women, they don't express, they don't go as deep as we do. Your man is in his cave, he may have tried to hook up with some one all ready, he will remarry. Men need momies, statistics prove it. Women get a break when they are single, I never realized how much of my time was spent solely on him, I still spoil him, but he knows that now. He talks more with other wives, and realized what a gift I am, and to be honest, I have a different man, and a different marriage now. I am taken care of, something I didn't have before, he is aware of my needs now, and seems to care. I know how lucky I am to have some one who has put so much effort into change. I am not going to say he is perfect, but I can't ignore the effort.
We all hate exercise but it works to clear the head in no other way.
previously in our relationship he was insanely jelous, that is why I gave up my life. He hated me going to PTA meetings, he hated me giving attention to my daughters, it was all about him for the first few years, it was really more abusive than I ever imagined my self ever tolorating, but when your in the thick of it, you can't see the changes in you, until your sick and tired of being sick and tired. Now there is no questions asked, again I have a different man. On one hand he expected me to be just like his mom, as did my ex husband. They want the independent woman, but don't know what to do with her, so you must just take a stand. If I were to leave, I would never marry again. Marriage is differnt today, I thought my second marriage should be like my first marriage, and marriage is for raising mutual children. Hind sight 20/20 vision, women or men with children from a prior relationship, should not remarry until the children are grown, of course they should not divorce in the first place. I so truly get the female gay movement, it is all about companionship. It is so hard to achieve with a man. With sex out of the way, and all that lust fueled energy, it forces you to develop a relationship, and I guess that is what we have been working on. Its been comprimise all the way, but on both ends for a change. I have all that I need, and am working on the wants.

April 20, 2001
1:25 pm
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Molly,

I'm VERY much impressed with your guys efforts on winning you back. You have to feel good about that. You sound alot like me in that you can be pushed up to the wall, but come out fighting when the time arises. He knew he had a good thing with you and it took him sometime to realize it. As far as counseling - ha - I mentioned that to my soon to be x- about 3 or 4 years ago and he said "I'm not paying no counselor" No Way - so that was the end of that. I went once by myself, but she needed a commitment on both sides if I wanted to try and work on the relationship. But since he refused and since then has refused all efforts to talk to me (besides yelling and screaming) that I'm the guilty party, I just gave up. How can I deal with a phantom husband? I can't. Your right - he'll go on with another life and probably another woman. At 62 he's healthy, but I wouldn't want to take a chance and hook up with someone who could get sick on me and I'd end up the rest of my life taking care of him. No thanks! I think I'll just stay by myself. How long have you been married? Your can be very independent if you need to be and I think that is what has gotten you through this. I just wish one time to hear the "I'm sorry and please take me back". It gives you some kind of self satisfaction to hear them admit that they were wrong. But, that's why I don't feel closure here I guess. I'll never hear those words. I'll probably never see him or hear from him again. Especially since I found out from my realtor that I don't have to be present for the closing. I can go to her office and sign the papers there. Which is what I'm going to do. That way I don't have to face him and start hurting all over again. I do believe I still have my dignity left and I'm not about to lose that. I have not given in one inch to him, because none of this was my fault. Not that I'm completely guilt free - but I never left him for anyone like he did to me. By that I mean his x, his daughter, and his friends. They all came before me.

Oh well another day on Prozac!

April 20, 2001
2:52 pm
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I had a thought a second ago, I get that despite all, you would really rather not be going through a divorce. If you wanted to start something, you could send him a book, with out him knowing it was you, maybe leave it with the realtor, or mail, or his sis, called Relational Rescue by Phil McGraw. I must own, that it radically changed my approach to my husband, and maybe that is why the bickering ended, I quit looking at him, and looked at me. True, when he said I'm sorry, I am the one that caused most of this, it was the spark that lit the fire, and of course I couldn't have ever made a wrong choice from the get go 🙂

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