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Dear Cici
December 7, 1999
4:17 am
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hazza
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hey cici,
thats great. What was in the sandwich?!
glad you and your mum are talking.
see ya soon
Haz

December 7, 1999
12:08 pm
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Cici
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Ha ha...turkey.

So how are you and your partner doing?

December 7, 1999
2:14 pm
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BROC
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Cici,

I don't know if you really ever answered this for me before, so I will ask again as I am curious.

Why is it that I still think of her, of them, still?

Isn't that an unhealthy thing to be doing?

Maybe I am too hard on myself. The whole thing was just so screwed up. A group of people that I started, I got together, shunned me. Noone ever called me to ask how I was doing. Noone ever gave me support. They told me to "just get over it". They told me somehting was wrong with me (when I told them about all the stuff counseling was teaching me...issues, emeshment, boundries, etc.)

I told shannon about counseling, etc. and she just rolled her eyes, said "you may need that shit, I don't" and walked away.

I never ever ever said no to her or ANY of them. I always helped them....ALL OF THEM. I gave them my time, money, effort, energey.

Why would they do what they did to me?

Do you have any ideas?

B-

December 7, 1999
5:35 pm
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Cici
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Well, first of all, I understand how you feel (as I've said before).

You think of her and them still because you choose to. Regardless of all the counseling, self-help books, etc. you need to do some serious soul searching. Move on. They have! Why do you think you get no phone calls, no recognition of your existence? Because they don't think of you. Because you surrounded yourself with shallow, materialistic, selfish, self-centered people.

You have physically moved away from all that, but have you moved away from it spiritually, mentally, emotionally? No! That's why you still think of it. Because you haven't closed the book!

I know it's a long, hard process to move on. Believe me, I went through it!!!! But if I can do it, so can you.

December 7, 1999
6:31 pm
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Angelwings
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I am quite sure Broc, that this same obssession that you have with your ex and your group of "friends" is probably the same feelings you have regarding your mom, am i right? Did she deny your feelings and create within you the same pain and need to be loved by her?
You are still reenacting your childhood psychodrama, untill you realise that they will never change and your mom was incapable of giving you the love and respect you deserved, you are not free.
be free

December 7, 1999
9:16 pm
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Angelwings
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its so sad, how inappropriate mothering can affect us deeply for a large part of our lives untill we become cognizant of this. Some of this damage takes place when we are infants, and we dont really conciously remember....

December 8, 1999
6:41 am
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hazza
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Hey cici,
Turkey eh? Figures, you guys eat it at thanksgiving too eh? 2 family meals a year, thank god im british!
To answer your question, things are much better, still have flare ups now and then, but he is clean and improving himself and will be job hunting soon.
I think he will move when he gets work and i don't know what future we have to be honest, i still have bad agoraphobia and anxiety, it will cause us problems if we live apart cos i wont feel that comfortable going out and about with him, but this is just another hurdle. If he loves me he will have to work with me on this l;ike i have done for him, if not then ,well i'll cope.
He still needs to work on his anger, cos this is a big problem if we go out anywhere, my anxiety makes a trip in the car anywhere feel like a trip in the car, if you get my meaning! The last thing i need is someone else having anger/ nerve problems, to get over it i need someone to stay calm and not add to my irrational fears, this is why i can go out with my parents okay but is harder to go places with him.
Still, hoping to get the courage up to face it, i have 3 letters to post today but im too scared to go to the mail box, send me some bravery you guys!!
Take care, how ironic to eat turkey!!! did you have mayo with it?
Peace
Hazza

December 8, 1999
11:08 am
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Cici
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You're telling me about the family dinners?! ack! I haven't been to a family dinner that didn't invovle some sort of conflict that ended the meal on a bitter note. Blech. No, no mayo for me. I try to stay slim by not eating desserts or fatty stuff.

I always say no one ever said relationships were supposed to be easy. I mean, you get that intial spark and those first four months of bliss and floating and then boom. You realize that you're two different people and that you need to work out your conflicting lives!! I guess the successful relationships involve two people who are intelligent enough to realize that. So many times I've seen people nowadays base relationships on some fictionalized idea of romance, not communicating not working things out. If my partner and I wren't best friends, we probablyu wouldn't still be together...

So I'm praying for you, sweetie!!!

December 8, 1999
11:39 am
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Angelwings
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Oh Hazza:
You are still housebound, didnt know. YOu flew to Canada you nut!
Hey if you can do that you can get out ON YOUR OWN.
I know its hard, but try not to depend on him or your parents for your strength. Try working with someone who will take you a little further, with more exposure every day and read "Healing fear" by Psychologist and Anxiety specialist, Dr Edward J Bourne. Phd
The best book! His book is MY philosphy totally, it combines cognitive therapy and the soul. Fantastic book! Miraculous book!
I healed myself of some really bad anxiety problems...NO DRUGS! It all comes from not feeling and actually being disconnected from yourself, your soul.
Not feeling and not caring for your needs, unreselved past trauma, From feeling unsafe in your childhood home, reconnecting with YOU and with your higher self/god is the answer. You will eventually feel safe, confident, loved, free and HAPPY
There are exercises in there that you can do every day to help you on your path. Please do it, you will be a healed and free woman!

December 8, 1999
12:31 pm
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BROC
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Cici,

Ouch. You know, I have done alot of thinking on this, and have come to the realization that I think about this, still, because I am still, for the most part, alone. I have come along way. A long way. The feelings of total dispair are gone. My job is fantasitic. My new girlfriend is healthy, awesome, belives in therapy, issues, etc. Independent, you name it. Completely 180 degress the opposite of what I used to go after. Makes me uncomofortable, but I am dealing with it. The uncomfortableness is a good sign its healthy.......no chaos, no nadda.

I think of her and them because I still can't make sense of it all. I still can't understand for the life of me how they, my closest friends could treat me so mean, so badly when I NEVER DID ANYTING to them but give them friendship, love, and support. And then for Jim to break "our" rule, a rule every guy in the group lived by, and for what, to screw a woman that he told me for years he thought was MY worst choice out of all the woman I had ever dated. The one with many "issues". The one that was definitely not even close to the nicest, or prettiest, or anything. He broke that rule, and now isn't even with her. He has a new woman. AND HIS DIVORCE ISN"T EVEN FINAL YET!

An apology would have been nice. A "Broc, I'm an asshole, I'm sorry" Or my other friends doing the same. I don't want or expect anything from her. I wans't the nicest guy to her all the time. I know two wrongs don't make a right, but still,.............

Bottom line is the why? So mean. So fucked up. And what makes it worse is they call me the nut. Mr. Therapy. It makes me questions, sometimes, if maybe they are the healthy ones and I am the one fucked up.

I don't think so, but their is 8 of them, and one of me. Can all eight of them be wrong, and just little old me be right? Can it be that I am the smart one, got out of that sick little fucked up group, and I am just simply suffering from having my feelings hurt?

And angelwings, no, I don't think of my mom like this. I am getting there in couseling....figuring out why I choose the woman I did....why I reapeated my lifes pattern. It is from my childhood, and when I get it, I will let you all know.

Thanks cici and angelwings.

Broc

December 8, 1999
12:53 pm
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Angelwings
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I hate to say this Broc, but you were just like them otherwise you wouldnt of flocked with them, "like birds of a feather
this group energy thing is real. You are the scapegoat and they blame you because they know that you are right and they need to also move on and grow, but they are scard so its easier to make you out to be the weirdo. Your current partner is not filling that void because there is no drama and chaos to distract you from it. YOu are pining to get back to that cause the loneliness is too painful to feel and face.
Only YOU can fill that, you need to raise your self esteem and self love so that you no longer feel lonely and no longer NEED a woman, it is then that you will truly attract a healthy mate/love and truly be able to give such.

December 8, 1999
8:01 pm
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BROC
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Angelwings,

I was never a man that cried. You know that be a man shit I was sold on as a boy by my asshole stepfathers.

But you last post made the tears flow. I can't describe how I feel. Sad. I feel so fucking sad.

I have so much. My health, family, money, a home, nice car. I give to many charities both physically and financially. I don't drink hardly at all. I never had an alcohol problem, but went out 2-3 times a week to chase the girls. Was really good at it. But after my breakup last Jan., that was it. My counsleor told me about patterns, etc. I didn't understand any of it back then, but listened to her; blind faith, you know?

Anyway, I didn't date at all for almost 7 monhts. No partying. No drinking. Very tough time for me. I almost did the stupid and ended my life. It was hell. But with just me, my mom, and couslor, and a few real "friends", I made it through.

As you may have read from other threads, I have come a long way. But relapse from time to time, as I have been doing.

When it comes down to it, my life is wonderful. I have it all. I don't need a woman in my life. I went 7 months with absolute 0. Now, just dating. Have dated a few. The first few were replicas of Shannon and the others....go figure! Well, I saw that much sooner and got out. So, I know I am better. But this obsession with Shannon, and the rest, well, I don't know.

I don't think about them but maybe once a day. Something invariably reminds me of one of them, espcially shannon (four years builds alot of memories). Usually I just smirk it off. I know they are all sick. I know they will repeat their unhealthy patterns and NEVER EVER find true happiness. Only glimpses of it. They will end up in the same fucked up rel. over and over as they repeast because they refuse to make the huge lifes change it would require to have a happy life. I used to be them.

But even with all that I have done, I am still stuck from time to time with them being in my thought process. I have done so much and still, to this day, think about them. I don't know how to forget it all. just let it go.

I don't think any of you will ever understand how great a friend I am. I never ever ever ever did ONE thing to ANY of them to deserve even 1/1000th of what they did to me. God, it was aweful. The shunning. The silence. The lies.

I know deep down I am thankful for it happening. If they didn't, I might have ended back up with Shannon as the 10 times I did before (no exaggeration) Talk about repeating and addiction! Anyway, even if I hadn't gotton back with her, I would still be assocaiqating with the wrong crowd. They are all the same.....from the same flock.

Well, I hope it leaves me soon. I don't want to screw up what I have worked so hard to get. My serenity, peace, and a woman I never thought existed. But she has even said what you have all said, I need to leave it behind me.

I really like all you guys. You are like part of my family. I appreciate your words, and sometimes harsh slaps. I am known for mine, however I, in the past month have tried to tone my responses down. I know what I am talking about, but being so blunt, even when true, can be to truthful.....it hurts.

So, I hope you understand where I am coming from. I am trying folks. I am trying.

I just can't understand how they did what they did, especially to me. I was a great friend to them.

Just don't understand.

Broc

December 8, 1999
8:38 pm
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everblue
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Hi Broc,

I feel for your pain in not understanding. My situation was completely different, but I also got shit on by someone, someone I really cared for, with no explanation at all a few years ago. He was never a bad person when I knew him (spiritual, kind, healthy), and he we had plans to spend our lives together. Well out of the blue, nothing. No returned phone calls, no letters, no email...we had moved 6,000 miles from each other so I could never afford to go see for myself what was going on. I ended up spending a year depressed and pathetic, all because I just couldn't get closure on what I thought was the love of my life.

Well anyway my point is that I still don't know what happened, or why, despite many letters begging for just an explanation. It's been over 2 years and once in a while, just once in a great while at night when I'm alone, it really still gets to me. But it is so much better since I have come to realize (largely through this site) that I may never ever know and that I have to get on with my life. I like to think I'm pretty good at understanding people, and he is the first person in my life who has ever done something hurtful to me that had no explanation whatsoever. This has been the hardest thing for me to get over - just not understanding "WHY?"

I don't have any great advice for you, except that time lessens it slowly, and if you do things to focus on YOU then you will find yourself thinking less and less of Shannon & friends, till one day you notice that if she crosses your mind, you don't have to dwell on it for hours, and then later you notice that she hardly ever crosses your mind... through a lot of work I've made it to that point, although I still slip back once in a while. Mostly I try to keep in mind the thought that I don't want any one person to have that much control over my life and happiness, especially one who hurt me.

Well, misery loves company so post away, but I find that doing less to remind myself of the past helps me to keep it at bay. I hope that you and I will both one day find that we just don't care about these people. Good luck.

-everblue

December 9, 1999
10:51 am
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BROC
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Everblue,

I hear ya. For me, well, its not hours. Its only once in a while. But boy, when I get started.

Shannon, well, I hate to say it, but she was a lap dog for the whole relationship. She put up with me and my shit.......mostly me not fully commiting. I put up with her nagging, complaining, jealousy, pettiness......etc. I know now the reasons why. I know I was with her for my low self esteem, and she with me for the same reason....the jealousy, etc. from her came from that.

I guess thats why its so unusual that I haveen't heard one word from her. not one. Take into mind that I changed all my phone numbers. That could be one reason. She knows my work, but wouldn't dare call. they all know her. She doens't even have my new eamil address. So, who knows. Maybe she has tried. I remember the last two things she told me. The first was that this recovery stuff; counseling, well, she didn't need it, "I don't need that SHIT, you might" were the exact words. The second was that she said was that she would love to try again, it was just that her friends and family would kill her.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Maybe I'm onto something here. Probably driving you guys crazy. Why does her even care? Well, it just, just so unusual. You know. But know that I am writing it out, it makes sense. You have to understand this girl came back over and over and over. At least 8-10 times. It was obvioulsy an addiction.....it went both ways. She couldn't stay away. But the last time we parted, was the FIRST time she said she wanted NO contact in any shape or form. (I forgot about that till now.) She said it would be to hard on her to hear my voice, see me with someone else, even just an email would be hard on her. At the time I just took that as her hating me. But thinking back on it, she in that same email to me, the last one I ever got, that she didn't.

Anyway, every time in the past that we would break up, and stay "just friends", eventually, usually within a few weeks, we would be back in the sack, then back to the dating thing again.

Soooooo, since it was painfully obvious it would never work with us, combined with her friends and family threating her, WOW, thats why! There it was the whole time. It was just to hard for her. Amazing!!!!!!!!!!

As for Jim and the rest, no reason at all for them to abandon me. NONE! My cousleor says the groups will do anything necessary to keep the group together. They saw me changing. They saw me disagreeing with the way we did things....the lieing, backstabbing, cheating, and instead of listening and learning and possibly making a change themselves, they decideed to stay that way cause to them its way easier to get rid of me and stay the way they are then to change themselves.

I guess maybe thats the part I don't understand. Maybe this whole time I do understand, now, why they did what they did, but still amazes me people would rather shit on a great friend, a close friend, then to open up to a new way, a healther way of doing things. It was either lets change with Broc, or fuck Broc. Well, guess the one they choose!

Anyway, I am babbling again. I just need to get this out. Ingore me. Thats probalby the best. ha ha

This morning has been a revelation. I guess I knew all along why shannon, jim, and the rest did what they did.

The real question is how jim and the rest could turn their back on me so easily.......abandon me. I can't remember ever doing that to someone I knew. I know change is scary, but I can't imagine for the life of me being so scared that I would completely shut the door in a friends face, especially a best friend, and without thought hurt them as bad as my old group hurt me.

So, Shannon didn't call because, well, she just can't. I would be hard. God, I feel like an ass. She fucking told me this 10 months ago. And the rest of them, well, it was either change or get me out. I finally understand. But what is still unanswered is what I mentioned above. To shut me out, so cold and cruel, well, I can't understand that. I guess for their own "sanity" they had too. because if they accepted my reality as the truth, that what they were doing was completely screwed up, then, well, they would have to face that reality, and its too scary to do. I know. I did it. I find it hard to believe that me, little ol me out of 8 pretty smart indiviauls, was the only one smart enough to go through this to have a better life. Thats why this whole time I have been doubting myself. And sometimes still do. Know what I mean? Usually when the ratio is 8:1, the 8 is usually the ones that are right...
you know, the majority. But from what I have learned, especially at this sight, is that I am the smart one, and them, well, their just screwed up, and will, in their own time, maybe, figure out that what I did was the right way, the only way to be truley happy.

Broc

December 9, 1999
11:15 am
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Cici
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It's hard, I guess, to get on with things. It was weird for me when Nellie called, the girl who slept with my boyfriend. It sort of dredged up all the memories that I had chosen to move beyond. I was pretty depressed for a few days, made me feel bad about myself. I almost broke up with my boyfriend (luckily he knows about the situation andcalled my bluff), because it's weird howmy sexual assault feelings are tied up in my relationship feelings, and her calling me brought back memories of sexual assault.

I'm taking abnormal psych right now, so I know the human mind tend sto make weird assocaitions if left to itself (that is, because I didn't receive couseling and guided healing for my sexual assault, I healed odd, so I associate sex with weird things now, as a coping mechanism).

I think it's not about surrounding yourself with people. It's not about being alone, Broc! It's about learning to be alone and liking yourself and moving on. I mean, I have ten years of memories with this girl. But her psychosis made her jealous of me making a connection with my ex. So she stole him from me to prove that she could. But I can safely say my life is much better without that influence. I LIKE being alone now.

After years of defining myself through others: my friends, family and relationships, I have learned to define myself on my own terms. And I think that's when you know you're over that whole mess, yes?

December 9, 1999
11:54 am
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Angelwings
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Broc, I really feel your pain, your feelings o f betrayal, of loss, of disgust, of loneliness.
Your "group" is a psuedo family who had their own familiar patterns and allegiences and you basically broke out of the cliche with what you felt and truly feel is a better way of life. YOur are brave and strong to have done such a thing, your mind obssesses insecurely on whether you did the right thing or not, thinking perhaps they are the cool ones and im just a nut case. Well, I have read your posts and listened to you for a while, and I can say you have done and are doing the right things. I am not sure it is such a good idea to have a relationship with a woman right now, but that is your call.
She seems to be an ex mess up and doing counselling, see how we attract like energy. I dont want to say that you were or are a "mess up" but you udnerstand. We all have issues to resolve and grow from Broc, you are not that different, your mind is stuck in this Shannon and family groove, but I and you have answered your own questions, it is too threatening for them to accept your reality, it means THEY would have to see what fuck ups they are and do something about it.
Healing this stuff is one of, if not the hardest thing we can do, but within in it is our greatest freedom and joy.
To help you take away that heavy obssession, you need to give your mind an even more powerful and positive obssession. Try spiritual work. Let go and let god Broc. Blessings

December 9, 1999
12:01 pm
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Cici I was thinking about your post, the reason you felt your sexual assault memories at the time you were confronted with the betrayal and victimisation of your girlfriend, was just that .......betrayal and victimisation were the same feelings you felt during the assault, and the fact that you havent healed or worked with your assault memories, keeps them resurfacing like an old wound that keeps opening, having not completely healed.
I am sorry to hear that you have that to contend with along with everything else.

December 9, 1999
12:13 pm
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Angelwings
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I believe Shannon is hurting as much as you Broc, just because she had a sexual relationship with your married friend (ultimate betrayal and what grief) doesnt mean she is happy. IT sounds to me like Shannon has abandonment issues and feels that she is loved only in sex, or hooks up with men who are emotionally unavailable (married) or play the field.
What a sorry life, and i am sure you must feel more compassion for her as you heal and you see her still in a life of empty addictive relationships.
Please try to have compassion for her, and accept the decision you have made and do something I feel will truly help you. Pray for her and your friends, yes, pray for them and if you possibly can, forgive them.
They really did not mean to hurt you, they really are just very shallow, confused and searching for themselves..just like you were, only fortunately you were one of the first crabs to get out of the pot.
Accept that you are a great man for doing this, and yes truly a man. Every person who is now defeated by situations or circumstances, or by any feeling of inferiority or inadequacy, or any other personal weakness, must come to a precise releasing moment when, in his thoughts, he resolutley decides that he is oging to have confidence in his decisions and in himself.
When your conscious mind defintley accepts this thought ist is then passed to the subconscious where, if firmly emphasized, it will become determiantive. There must be present, however, a positive spiritual force to activate your decision. That force is a humble faith in God. It may be deepened by using such an affirmation as, "I believe that God NOW gives me strength. i believe that God is NOw helping me. I believe that God is NOW releasing my hidden powers."
Continue to affirm in this manner untill your subconscious mind fully accepts that which the conscious mind passes to it. Then it will become a fact. as you maintain and stregthen faith in this manner your problems, instead of appalling you by their difficulties, wll become increasingly easier of solution, Instead of being controlled by your weaknesses you will assume control over them.
Here broc, it is a true man that cries. God bless.

December 10, 1999
10:50 am
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Cici
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Hi Angelwings...

I'm so glad things are turning around for you finally. You definately deserve this!

It's odd. I thought I'd dealt with all this. Then this girl cals me and suddenly I remember things I ought not. I feel dirty and don't want to be touched or held, and I cry. Not half as severe as when it first happened. a bitter echo, I suppose.

I get angry when I feel these things. So many women have been sexually victimized, either by rape or violation or assault...even within the confines of a relationship, where you are supposed to feel safe! I wonder why men do that.

December 10, 1999
12:24 pm
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Angelwings
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Men who rape are out of control. They feel inadequate, helpless and victimised themselves. In a way, they have a need to pass this poison on. ITs really sick, but when you think about it, this is a vicious circle of all forms of abuse against each other, UNTILL SOMEONE FINDS THE KNOWLEDGE, WISDOM AND STRENGTH TO STOP THAT CYCLE.
I guess in a way, some of these guys want to get caught so they can get help. Usually they have been abused themselves as children.
I was raped twice when I was a child.
One not fully. It was in a public street when i got off a bus at age fourteen. He came up behind me put his hand around my mouth and tried to rip my clothes off. I was screaming bloody murder and clawed down his face, I had skin and blood under my nails and I ran for my life. He pursued regardless of the public attention I was drawing, it was at night but two boys onthe skating rink saw me and ran after this guy with their skates on. ONe of the guys later turned out to be a good friend.
I felt so violated and afraid for years.
The other was more a sexual assault by a "boyfriend"
It was horrible, oh i cant even talk about it.
If you still cry, it is need of healing and talking about cici. You should talk about it here. I will try to talk about my experience.
We need to get this stuff out so we dont carry it around. There are probably a lot of other women who are reading this who were also subjects of rape and assault. If they want to join in here, please do. We do not have a thread here yet regarding this topic.
Blessings
your friend and soul sis..lol
How is your dad cici?
I am glad your mom and you are getting along better, really work on this it will help you lots, read what i wrote in our thread

December 10, 1999
2:52 pm
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hazza
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hi all,
thanks a.wings, your right, I know i flew to Canada, but i guess I had my family for support, and it was REAL hard, but i did it.
The only way i can get over this is with practice, i know that but i keep wimping out, but I will try harder!!!
There is no help available for me with the doctors but i have joi9ned a charity that deals with agoraphobia and anxiety and we have a joint gruop phone session once a week with a councellor that helps, its nice to talk to people who understand. Thanks for your understanding too, Aw

Cici, hang in their girl, thanks for you support, when i met up with my ex friend i actually had a nightmare about her trying to kill me!!! thats when i knew to leave the girl well alone, it does just bring back too many memories, i guess we just outgrow people sometimes.

Broc, hows it going?
A.wings and cici have said everything i could say on your thread, but I do realise now that it is more than just an ego thing with you and shannon, i didn't realise that she had indicated that she would like to get back with you, of course that is going to leave you wondering, may be in the future you and she will get in touch and discuss this, but you both need time to grow and change right now, don't you think. I know you feel like you want to save her from herself, but you can't, she must grow by herself, but if and when she does, maybe you will have both matured enough to have a new more adult less f***ked up relationship?
I hope so for you sake but I do think she will have to come to the same conclusions about her life that you have for that to happen and she must do that on her own.

Peace to all of you my friends, I hope we will all have some good news to report soon
Hazza

December 10, 1999
5:15 pm
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Hazza,

Like I said earlier, she and I did our back and forth, break up, get back, break up, get back at least 8-10 times. I knew that if I had nothing else to go to, she was always a sure thing, and I guess in some ways she new that about me too!

Thats why after our last breakup she told me NO contact in ANY way. Again, it would be too hard and too tempting. She knew this. So did I. And, to be honest, so did all of our friends. They watched the dance too many times. Thats why when I mentioned us getting back together, WHEN I HAD HER ALONE WITH ME, she said she would like to try again. But, two days later, after her friends and family spoke with her, she said no. NO more. Who could blame her? And I thank god for her making that decision. I hate that she can't make up her OWN mind and has to listen to those around her, but I am glad she did. If she hadn't, who knows. I know we would have went the same road again, it would have crashed again, and maybe her friends and family would have stopped talking to her.

At any rate, I would not have done what I have done. God, its a vicious trade off, at least right now. Inside I feel at peace for the most part. No game playing, lieing, backstabbing, cheating, etc. No chaos. But still, I miss her. I feel like I did when my Grandma died. The lack of her presence....... just miss her, you know? Don't miss the shit that came with it though.

Anyway, other than that, the only other thing I am battling now it the urge I get to "hook" up with woman that I meet or run into that give me an indication of a sexual nature. I have to admit I am tempted. Even just last night a woman I know basically jumped me. I kissed her, and then, for the first time in my life, jumped back, and said I have to leave. I felt weird. It felt wrong. Now I am only dating one woman, casually. I could have justified my actions in a hundred ways. But this time I thought, man, I sure wouldn't want ????? doing this when she is out with her friends. I know she like me alot, and I her. So I felt, again for the first time in my life, I had a obligation to her and even to myself to stay on the straight and narrow. Now what I mean? I am proud I controlled my urges, but worried that they were even there in the first place. I like to think I have come a long ways, but its times like last night that I think that all I am is just a fake. That I really haven't changed, and its hopeless to think I ever will change permanently. Does that make sense?

Thanks!
Broc

December 10, 1999
5:32 pm
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Angelwings,

Just a clarification. You said,

"IT sounds to me like Shannon has abandonment issues and feels that she is loved only in sex, or hooks up with men who are emotionally unavailable (married) or play the field."

There are a few or's in there, and didn't know if maybe you meant to put and after ....sex, AND hooks up ........

You see, I know she has these abandonment issues...if you haven't read it yet, go to my thread I started in August titled, "My Story, Kind of Long, Need some Advice" I gave a pretty detailed story of what happened. In there, I listed Shannon's history; jumping from man to man to man, etc. To be honest, I share those abandonment issues.

From what I have learned and read, shannon and people like her, usually woman, only feel loved when they have sex. Having sex tells them that their partner MUST love them. It tells them that they are "ok!". 99.9% of the time they (shannon and the like) will search out, over and over (repeating their pattern) the same type of man. Like you said, either emotionally unavailable (married), (which is what they are used to, AND comfortable with (comes from family of origin issues)), and/or men that play the field, which are also emotionally unavailable.

Is this what you meant, or were talking about?

Thanks!

Broc

PS- Feel free to add to, change, agree, or disagree with. I am still learning, and if this isn't right, I would like to know your thoughts.

December 10, 1999
11:01 pm
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yep, exactly

December 11, 1999
7:50 pm
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Argh! Finals finals finals. New classes next semester. Presure to graduate by the spring of 2001. Blah.

Anyways, I don't rememebr much about what happened to me. I was molested when I was 5 by a swimming teacher. i rememebr feeling "wrong" when he touched me, and him sitting with me in his lap behind the showers telling me not to tell anyone about what was between us. I think my mom knew...she took me out of the class.

later, when I was 12, I was assaulted at a summer camp by a 15 year old boy. He liked me, but I was really too immature to understand what he wanted when he talked to me. He cornered me in a littler room. All I remember is him coming towards me and then afterwards, crying and cowering in the corner while he walked out of the room. I don't rememer what happened there either.

I wonder. I talked to a therapist who said that it was probably for ther best that I didn't remember and that I shouldn't try to access those memories.

I thought I was better. Yet when I write of these thigns I feel nothing, a familiar feeling. I desperately love my boyfriend. I don't really have any sexual dysfunction except a horrible fear of certain sexual acts. As long as I don't engage in those acts and I don't witness them a lot or am approached with the idea of doing them, i'm ok. I don't know...I thought I'd dealt with this, but what else can I do but talk about what happened to me? It was nothing, really. I don't even know if I was penetrated!

I remember when my virginity was taken. The guy got me really drunk on our second date. I was stumbling and slurred. I passed out on his bed, all giggly. The next thing I knew he was on top of me and the situation was all out of control. I didn't want it. But it happened anyway. Is that rape? I didn't say no. I was just in a miserable stupor. Afterwards, all I could say was "I can't believe this happened to me. I can't believe I'm not a virgin." Then I figured i could have as much sex as I wanted, not having anything to save anymore.

Sometimes when I think about this stuff I get so mad. I hate men! But I love certain ones. In fact, almost all of my friends are men! Something is not right here. Why is it that I don't trust women?

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