Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_TopicIcon
Dear Brenda
February 25, 2000
2:17 pm
Avatar
BROC
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Brenda,

Wow! All I can say is wow, at least to start with.

You asked me for a hand in the dark, but I ask myself what kind of hand is she looking for Broc?

You see Brenda, people come here for many reasons. Many. Some just to hear that they are understood, some just to get a reality check (as I do)....to keep on the right path. Some to lend a hand, like myself, Hazza, Cici, and others. The list goes on. So, without knowing exactly what hand you need, I am going to go the safe bet road and answer the questions YOU asked. OK?

Here goes:

1. You make reference many times to the fact he doesn't trust you. Many references. Let me let you in on a little secret. HE DOESN'T TRUST HIMSELF. You see, we can keep secrets about who we are from EVERYONE but ourselves. We know we better than anyone. Right? Right! So he knows he is a slimball. He knows he is a liar, cheat, asshole. I ask myself if I met this guy and got to know him, even a little, would I put MY trust in him? THATS A BIG FAT FUCK NO! Are you nuts would be my response. I wouldn't let this guy hold my Monopoly Money. See what I mean?

This is a very basic but 100% true fact about humans. If you remember anything I tell you remember this FACT. WE HUMANS ARE PREDICTABLE! This guy was this way when he was 8, 18, 28, and will remain this way until the day he dies. He could and probably will marry another fifty times and on the fiftith woman, he will still be the same asshole he is now. That is a fact we all live with, and this jerkoff is no different I assure you.

2. You also make references to him accusing of you being controlling. Two things on this. He is, and you probably, 99% chance are as well. Now, this doesn't mean you are anywhere near the level of Mr. Wonderful. Since I am assuming you already are aware that you are codependent, and you also know he is as well. Well, control is in the top five characteristics of a codependent person. There are of course degrees of this, but it sounds as though his case of control is terminal.

3. You asked when the bullshit will end? Answer, when you have hit rock bottom. You are close, thats why your here. If you had hit it, I mean REALLY hit it, you would be signing the divorce papers. I need to add to this. I can hear you say, when you read this, "But Broc, I am miserable, stressed, want to use his head as batting practice." I AM AT MY BOTTOM! Again, no you aren't. Let me tell you a little story I heard from my therapist. I asked her one day why people just didn't get it. Why do we keep putting ourselves through the same shit, over and over, and never LEARNING that we better wake the fuck up or we are doomed? Why? I asked her why I woke up, but my exgirlfriend (Shannon), exbestfriend (Jim) etc. didn't. Why me? Her answer. I had hit my rock bottom, they hadn't. They were in heavy denial, as 99% of the population is. Anyway, I just couldn't believe this. It still baffled me. I knew Shannon had been through hell and back with the men in her life. Cried a million tears. Nearly killed herself once. Very bad. She told me that that was serious, BUT obviously not her bottom. She told me of a story about one of her other clients that was in an abusive realationship. This guy was a drunk, and as ignorant as they come. He verbally, physically, and sexually abused her for years. One day she told him she was pregnant. He went into a rage. He tied her to the bed, and proceded to stick a coat-hanger down her throat to perform, what he thought, was an abortion. I about threw up. Anyway, she went to the hospital, and was treated for lacerations on her throat, larynx, etc. Her sister came to pick her up, and asked her if she had finally had enough. She looked at her sister, and said she wanted to go home with him. WHAT THE FUCK? True story. My point? What I think should be a rock bottom isn't for anyone else EXCEPT that person. You aren't quite there yet.

4. His money, not our money? What? Unless you live under a rock somewhere, your shit is his and visa versa. Give you an ALLOWANCE? Either he married an eight year old or he is so out of touch with reality he may never come back?

5. You make several references to him being obsessed. Rage-alcoholic, alcoholic, work-alcoholic, etc. Sorry, I call a spade a spade. Ever heard of a 12 step program for these. There is one for every kind of -oholic. He needs more steps than a twenty story hotel.

Another thing you need to understand is this. This is critical. Codependency has many faces, but, at the same time, many are very similar, and ALL come from one root problem: Shame. Shame is the core in codepents. Imagine shame as a root to a plant. It grows and grows, sprouting limbs that stretch out into the sun. The limbs are things like control, manipulation, jealousy, etc. The person uses these limbs to get what they need, AND feel they can't get unless they control, manipulate, etc.

Make sense? As children, we learned that we couldn't simply just ask for what we wanted, because, 99% of the time we were told no. Why? Because our parents were irratable, short tempered, impatient, controlling people. In a word, dysfunctional. Or, had abuse problems, such as alcohol, drugs, etc. Anyway, we found that we could, eventually, get what we wanted,if we controlled the situation. You know what I mean folks. When you want a particular item, and immedialty start thinking of how you can snake around, pull a few strings here and there, until eventually you get what you were after. Usally pissing alot of people off in the process.

Your hubby learned it, and so did you. Yes, you may be controlling. After all, you are codependent. But as I said before, it sounds as though Mr. Smiles is terminal.

6. You are confused about getting legal advice because your afraid that would breakup the marriage. Read that over 10 times and tell me the FIRST thought that comes to your mind. I will tell you what came to MY mind. Why in the world would she be concerned with a divorce when her homelife is apparently, from what she has said, a bucket of shit? Answer. She, as she also states, is terrified of another divorce. Why I ask myself? Probalby several reasons: One very distinct possibility is the core again...shame. What will my friends, family, etc. think of me? I am willing to bet a dollar to a doughnut that they already sized this guy up before the blessed day you got hitched, and this would just confirm what they thought. Shame. Second, as with all codependents, is that fear of the unknown. What will I do? Where will I go? etc. etc. etc. Fear. This list goes on, but again, those are two very real possiblities I would bet my life on. And thats ok. Fear is ok. Shame is only shame if YOU let it be. Those that will stand by your side are your TRUE friends and family. Those that don't. Tell them, from me, to fuck off! I for one will be here to support you! Fear. Thats a biggie. But again, when you finally hit your bottom, and confront that fear head on, you will hurt. That is a given. BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT. If you stay on this new path, as I have promised so many other people, you WILL have found a life LIKE YOU NEVER THOUGHT POSSIBLE. But we will get into that more later.

7. He says your not responsible, and will take off. HELLO CODPENDENCY! First, that is what all the woman prior to you did. Probably his father, maybe mother. Its called abandonment. That is my biggest fear. Maybe yours too. DEFINITELY HIS!!!! Also laced into that is control, another codependent characteristic. His thought is this. She won't leave me if she doesn't have the means to leave me. Means = money. Hence his reason for the cash flow restriction. But broc, he isn't scared of me leaving. he even agreed to a seperation. Sure he did, BECAUSE HE KNOWS YOU DON'T HAVE THE FUCKING MEANS TO REALY TRULEY DO IT. I PROMISE, GURANTEEE, YOU NAME IT. IF YOU DID, HE WOULD BE KISSING YOUR ASS SO MUCH YOU WOULD NEED LOTION TO PREVENT YOUR ASS FROM CHAPPING! Its pure conrol. Plain, simple, easy to read.

8. Drinking problem? Refer to number 5.

9. Insecure, unemployed asshole. Pssst. Guess what? HE STILL IS!

10. He admitted this was more for HIS persoanl success and ego. Thats the first bright thing he has said! Like I said before, codependents have shame. That leads to very low self esteem. We need to be feed, in huge doses, to keep it up high enough just so we don't kill ourselves from being depressed. Meaning. We have low self esteem. We don't believe we are worth much. (Keep in mind this is all unconscious thoughts. Again, it comes from our childhood) Anyway, we don't believe we are worthy of being loved, and feel very unlovable. So, we do one of two things to get this feeling of worthiness. One, we become a caretaker, like you and I are. We find projects, like your catch of the century - the insecure, umeployed, immature asshole. THEY NEED HELP! BADLY! THEY ARE LOST, AND CAN'T WIPE THEIR ASS WITHOUT AN EXTRA HAND. So, you and I ride up on our white horses to SAVE them. Why? Well, don't you know, THEY NEED us? Well, no they don't. What they need we'll save for later. More importantly, lets look at us. We need them to need us. Because if they don't, we aren't worthy. We really don't deserve to be loved. We don't deserve to be treated with kindness and respect, UNLESS we can save them. Then surely they will see how great we are. Then they will SEE what a great person we are, what a great catch we are, and love us, and appreciate us, and NEVER LEAVE US. WHY? Becuase we have in fact made them dependent on US! Thats why i say if you really had means he would rock the boat. He is as depenedent on you as you are on him. You think your scared of a divorce. My lady, I promise you he is so terrified of the thought he probalby shits himself daily. I promise you that. Because if he truely didn't care about a seperation, he would help you to find a place, make sure you and the kids were safe and taken care of, and you had plenty of money to do it right. Remember you telling him you would like to be independent if anything happened to your marriage. He freaked, and told you not to touch the money. Need I say more?

11. I'm pooped, for now. I need a break. I will continue if you like brenda, ONLY if you want me too!

I hope that with this I have helped. My intent was to open your eyes a little more. What I say is the truth. what I say comes after more than 125 hours of therapy, over 60 books, one year of codependents anonoymous meetings, about a dozen seminars, and weekly codpenency realtiosnhip meetings taught by a woman who has done workshops with people like Pia Mellody, one of the top researchers regarding codependency. So, I know what I am talking about. And to top it off, I HAVE LIVED IT. So, you can trust me, which I already know from what you write is an almost impossible task for you, let alone My. Goodtimes you have at home!

Broc

February 25, 2000
2:43 pm
Avatar
BROC
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Need to ammed number 10. If you had means, he WOULD NOT rock the boat.

Also, number 11. Thats Mr. Goodtimes. I am of course being a smartass. Just trying to add some humor to a situation devoid of it.

Broc

February 25, 2000
3:25 pm
Avatar
Brenda
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thanks Broc, really touched me, I prayed from some understanding and compassion from someone regarding my situation and I got it. Thankyou.
Do you remember when you were in the thick of the codep tug of war, how you doubted your self, your choices your feelings.......thats where I am, on and off. Its really tough, im strong and smart but this relationship makes me feel weak and fearful at times.....
I intellectually get it, know the dance, but really sticking it on my personal situation is tough but it sticks regardless.......it sticks.
Im really tired today, and I am sick of obssessing, he called me an hr ago to say he was sticking by his decision to now allow me access to "his" account or money because I am irresponsible with money and he doesnt trust me.....
He says "I love you but I want us to go to counselling, its like throwing shit in my face and then kissing me on the head, sort of like the abused dog who gets food after...ya know
fucked up....I already set up appt for mon, but I am so close to rock bottom right now, and it has gone on for too long......will write more later..God bless

February 25, 2000
3:31 pm
Avatar
Brenda
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

sorry, that sentence was meant to read "decision to NOT allow me access to "his" account
He says I am violating HIS boundaries and it is his money, HE earned it.
I am suffocating him with my demands and expectations......
I am honestly believing that maybe I am a little, maybe I am ......
I want my name on that account cause i also earned that money by caring for our children, sacrificing my career and education in support of his fucked up hrs and business, it was my ideas and guidance that took him from a self emp single to a company that has six employees..my energy..
He had the nerve to ask me to find him more contracts with no credit or money to me for it! He did say he would turn it back to a partnership and then changed his mind, he has done this over and over, like the proverbial carrot in front of the donkeys nose, well I am no donkey. I am a beautiful female full blooded arabian, used to running with a free spirit and a lust for life. Thanks for the joke at the end, Mr goodtimes..:) made me smile.

February 25, 2000
3:33 pm
Avatar
Brenda
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

But like George Macdonald says "to be trusted is a greater compliment than to be loved" I think they go hand in hand. I gave him my world, he gave me a lump of dirt

February 25, 2000
4:13 pm
Avatar
BROC
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Brenda,

You still are not hearing some of this stuff, so let me try it plain and simple.

His business IS your business. His kid, your kids. His home, your home. Get it through you head!!!!! Hes a fuckup.

Now, with that said, yes, I do remember doubting it all when i was in the thick of it. But thank god I had the common sense to listen to those around me.....people like me.

I have been there, done that. So have half of the others here. Your situation is crap. Will it get better. Never. Worse. Yes. Fact, not fiction!

You will learn this though, but hopefully not before too much times passes.

ANd last but not least, I want to make a bet with you. I bet you $10000000000000000000 dollars that when and if you get into counseling, he will want to talk about WHAT YOUR DOING WRONG. God, it makes me laugh. I can just see him. She does this, and that. She is this and that. You will have bruises from him pointing the finger. Hopefully, your couselor has the brains god gave a grape....some don't. If he/she does, Mr. Bonehead will wish he had a hole to crawl into. If the counselor has the time to tell him that his closet is dirty and needs cleaning, your little gem won't go back. I promise you that.

My prediction. You go to counseling. he points the finger. He will keep going until the counsleor tells him he has a few scrws loose. Counseling will then loose its appeal. He will justify the shit out of now going anymore. You will continue to have the same battles. He will continue his abuses to cope with the shitstorm going on. You may turn your attentions to the same. Alcohol, drugs, pills, OTHER men that are more "available" for you. And, these men will be a replica of your fomer ex, and your soon to be ex. Trust me, they will match perfectly.

And in the end, you will have the same choice to make then as you do now. And keep in mind all the while your arguing, fighting, body language, etc. that you THINK the kids don't see, they do. And as each day passes, they "learn" to behave as their models, you and mr. caring. Then, in fifteen years, your kids will start slapping thier mates around, acusing, pointing the finger, and so on. This pattern will repeat itself until one day somebody reaches deep into their soul, past the fear, past the shame, past everything to pull a new and happy life out of the hat. This is your destiny if you don't change it now! And no, its not just you. It is ALL OF US! That is a promise.
Well, not me. I got off that fucking train.
Broc

February 25, 2000
4:35 pm
Avatar
BROC
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Brenda,

Sorry if that was harsh. I really do feel for you. I wanted to die, literally. And I didn't have kids to contend with.

But what I do know is this. Our situations while different are the same. Sad, but true. You ex. is NOT going to change. He is in denial. And in the one in a million chance he does REALLY and truley want to change, let me let you in on another secret. First, it will take at least a year of therapy, and at least another year or so to get right. This guy, not likely. But, lets say for arguements sake he does. This is the little secret. When he changes, you STILL won't like him.

This is the vicious circle. The reason we choose the partners we do IS FOR THE DYSFUNCTION THEY BRING. AND, VICE VERSA. THE REASON YOU WERE ATTRACTED TO HIM WAS CAUSE HE WAS NEEDY, INSECURE, ASSHOLE. YOU, WHETHER OR NOT YOUR REALIZE IT, ARE IN ATTRACTED TO THAT. Hence your choice in him, your ex, and so on. Bet they are alot like dear old dad!

Anyway, you get healed, and he gets healed. That means that the dysfunction is gone. Take away the dysfuncion, which is the attraction, the reason you guys choose each other, and boom, there is nothing there you will want to hold on too!

You won't be attracted to each other anymore! Sick, isn't it.

Anyway, I feel for you. This stuff is hard to believe, and even harder when you really don't want to believe it. I know, I was there. But the sooner you come to grips with these facts I have presented, the sooner you can take that first critical step towards healing, and a life that you never ever thought possible.

I will say a prayer for you and your children brenda. And, am here if you want the support you need, or quesitons you need answered. And if I don't know the answer, I will find it. I won't say anything just for the hell of it. This is too critical.

Broc

February 25, 2000
4:50 pm
Avatar
Brenda
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Broc, I know, its hard to face, i am rock bottom, I am about to get a divorce if he starts blaming me in counselling. He IS in denial and I am coming out of it..thats why things are getting tense around here....
You mean a lot to me. Thankyou for being a friend and hand in the dark.
I will do whats best for my children, and not be afraid if thats what it takes.....

February 25, 2000
5:18 pm
Avatar
BROC
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Brenda,

I will be here, waiting to help if I can. Try and remember this:

In order to have what most people don't, YOU HAVE to be willing to do what most people won't.

Well, most hide their hands in the sand called denial. Its easier, or so they think. Their live continue on, in that COMFORTABLE pain. Alway shit. Always wondering why, why won't I ever be happy? Why don't I get the prize. Always a why. Why the answer for them and for all of us is and has been the whole time right in front of us....the reflection in the mirror. US! You fix you Brenda. ANd if he wants, he can too. Not because he is scared you'll leave. Not because of any other reason OTHER than he wants to get better. You must be doing it for the same reason....to fix you. Marriage counsleing on the whole doesn't work. Many I have talked to call it divorce counseling. They say that by the time a couple comes to them, its too late. But, only you know that about your situation.

The bottom line is this. For you, and all of us. You fix you. He fixes him. And after the dust settles, if you still want each other, so be it. Again, as I said before, the addiction/dysfunction will be gone, hence the attraction will be gone, hence you won't even want to look his way. Thats the majoity of the situations. You may be the exception. But it all starts with us individually healing our issues/wounds. If you don't, you will never be happy. And it won't work if just you go and he doean't. You may try it thinking you can relay the info. to him, but don't try. If he doesn't see a need for him, then you can threaten his life, and he still won't change. Its his character. Let me give you an example I love.

A scorpion walked up to the bank of a river next to a toad about ready to dive in. The scorpion asks the frog if he will let him ride on his back to the other side because he can't swim.

The frog says are you crazy. I will get about half way across and then you will sting me, and then I will drown.

The scorpion says thats ridiculous. If that happens, I will drown to you idiot.

The frog says that makes sense, and says hop on. About half way across the scorpion stings the frog just as he had orginally thought would happen. As the venumis paralizing him, he looks back and says, "I don't understand. I will drown, and so will you. Why? Why did you do this?"

The scorpion, ever so calmly, answers him. "Because, thats my character"

We are who we are. We will NEVER change unless WE, and ONLY WE, do it OURSELVES. You cannot change, or help change another person. NO NO NO NO NO! UNLESS HE GETS HELP FOR HIMSELF, BECAUSE HE SEES A PROBLEM WITH HIM AND NOT YOU, THEN FILE NOW. IT WILL NEVER GET BETTER, AND WILL IN ALL LIKELY HOOD GET MUCH WORSE.

bROC

February 27, 2000
2:06 pm
Avatar
Brenda
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

now the asshole says he will only give me power of attorney and says that means the same as a partner, financially and legally.....i thinks this is more bull.....broc?????????help

February 27, 2000
8:16 pm
Avatar
janes
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Take the power of attorney and run him over. Not really.
Broc is right. He won't change. No way. Unless he sees it himself he is going to stay the same and every thing will always be your fault.

Why do you keep enabling him to be an asshole.? If you have worked to make his vusiness successful you can do it in your own.

the kids ...if nothing else are worth you're getting far away from him.

Why do you want to subject them to years of what you are going thru'?

As a special ed teacher I see the angry broken kids every day....and I talk to the parents who deny anything is wrong at home.
We say kids are resiliant..yeah...esp. after we parents "grown-ups" break them and break them in..into co dep. into anger into shame...

Brenda..there is nothing wrong with your children seeing you BE STRONG!!!!!

There is another great website...drirene's berbal abust site...if you can find it...lots of good reading there too.

Get going girl...the lives you save will be yours and your kids.

February 28, 2000
9:34 am
Avatar
hazza
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Brenda,

You need to get some legal advice now!
You said you were going to phone some organisations, get them to give you some legal advice if you havent already. making a few phone calls to find out how you stand legally does not mean the start of another divorce, it is just you on the phone finding out in private for now so that you will be able to understand your rights, it will help you 2 ways

1
you will know what your options are.
2
you will be able to see how much of what he is saying is bull and see the extent of what he is doing with the finacial matters, how far he is from reality.
Good luck keep me posted
Hazza

February 28, 2000
5:43 pm
Avatar
BROC
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Brenda,

Give me a p. give me an r. give me an i. give me a c. give me a k.

With that said, I am going to borrow a saying from my late grandfather.... "Shit or get off the pot." Comprende'

Listen up. Divorce his ass, and have your day in court. By the time the judge gets done with this sorry excuse of a man he will be residing in a refridgerator box under an overpass somewhere.

Community property baby. Unless you signed a pre-nup somewhere, I don't give a shit what he says. 50%. Bottom line! And even if you did sign something, wait till the judge sees you and the kids. He will be lucky to afford a phone call.

Brenda, I love ya. But now is the time to step up to the plate and swing. Your just yelling from the dug-out. Thats like not voting and bitching about who was elected.

Get a lawyer. There are hundreds of them. Start the process now. And watch out. This guy will turn into a five year old little boy. Begging, pleading, god, it will be pathetic.

Broc-

PS- Sorry. I just have no sympathy for a man that hits a woman. I don't care how long ago or under what circumstances it was under. Let him try that shit with me. I'll bitch slap the shit out of him.

February 29, 2000
4:04 am
Avatar
hazza
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hey Broc, I could have done with your help here the other night!!!

Brenda, at the very least get legal advice, but other than that do what YOU want, if you want time to think things over even, maybe you could go visit family or friends.

Take care
Hazza

February 29, 2000
7:33 am
Avatar
janes
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

ABUSERS DO NOT CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No matter what kind of abuse they are into they DO NOT CHANGE. Your situation WILL NOT CHANGE unless YOU change it.

You will keep hearing the same old stuff from him for THE NEXT 50 YEARS and then you will watch your children develop and have the same kind of relationships YOU ARE IN RIGHT NOW!!!!

YOU ARE WORTHY YO ARE WORTHY YOU ARE WORTHY.

I agree with Broc to get moving. but if you really need to take more abuse, be more unhappy, suffer more, watch your children suffer (for life) we will still be here (and saying the same things) There is no way you can get this group to say..."oh the poor man"

EACH AND EVERY PERSON GOD CREATED IS A WONDERFULLY UNIQUE, MARVELOUS SOUL , SPIRIT AND PERSON!!!! It is us that screws things up!!!! As parents we screw up when we make excuses for other adults who are out of control and harming others.

Brenda...you sound so compassionate and smart and loving...USE THOSE ON YOURSELF ONLY!!!!!!!!! (AND YOUR KIDS)

take care.

March 3, 2000
9:03 pm
Avatar
Brenda
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

well im a legal partner now, we signed the papers yesterday. He said "if it makes you feel more secure then lets do it " I said it would make me feel loved, respected and trusted and you are acknowledging my contribution to this business and our joint income.
I felt fairly good all week, he has also started counselling.......
so maybe we can heal??????
thats what I was beginning to think, but then he called me, a couple hours ago, and said hes going out tonight for dinner and drinks with his buddies.
Well, I said calmly, that he was not considering my feelings and our previous discussions regarding his fri nights and his drinking but he said, "would you like to just have me at home wrapped up in a neat little package" well I freaked, I said " you are never at home, and perhaps I would like to go out for dinner, how about taking your wife out for dinner you ASSHOLE.
Yes I called him a name and hung up, mistake, it makes it easier for him to justify his neglect and what I consider to be abuse.
I do not appreciate it when he says "fri nights are my tradition and i worked hard all week" well what does he think I did all week, picked my nose?
I am pregnant and sitting at home alone again and we are supposed to go away for a romantic weekend this weekend but he will be hungover and burnt again.
He just phoned, he said he will be coming home late but not drunk.
I said, I dont care, he broke two promises.......the drinking and the fri night promise.
He says 'but I do enjoy a beer"
Why doesnt he have a few at home with me?
cause I dont drink, thats why
why doesnt he go out for dinner with me?
cause hes going out with a client ( who happens to be an alcoholic )
writing this crap and obssessing is wasting my time.
I said if hes late or drunk, i go alone tomorrow...its pathetic that I even have to say such a thing. I am sure there are men out there who are happy to come home to their wife and would rather be with them fri nights and all weekend, then out with a bunch of loud mouth guys drinking and bullshitting or am i completely naive?????anyone
am I making too much out of all this??
I feel pretty centred and grounded, untill he pulls his stunts......
Are most relationships like this?
really?
Dont most relationships encompass similar elements of unmet needs, neglect and pain???
Is mine really the painful exception?
Am i so far in denial i dont know my ass from my head??
He seems to be healing, cant guys grow, cant guys heal?
He is much better than he used to be, I know I am much stronger and further along my own recovery.....is HE the real baggage thats holding me back or is it my own stuff im not dealing with.
Its hard to just up and leave, we have CHILDREN who love him and I and divorce can be as damaging as anything......
They dont witness any violence or any serious arguments, am i looking for the perfect relationshp that doesnt exist? still confused.......brenda

March 3, 2000
9:33 pm
Avatar
janes
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

AAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!

IF and that is a huge IF he goes to counseling and belieives in it and you and really works hard at it then yes he can grow. He will have to see his behavior as abusing.

Follow through on what you said about going on your own tomorrow. You can HAVE A VERY RELACING NICE WEEKEND WITHOUT HIM... Pick up "codependent no more" and read it over the weekend.

He willnot chiange unless he fells the need to change. Signing the agreement with ou gave him a repreive.

do you think you are making to much out of it? How long did it take for him to see the NEED for your partnership?

You may be able to MAKE IT WORK but you will be the one making it work and he will probly still be going out on Fri nites.

You'll never find a perfect relationship. and all relationships have ups and downs...but he should be a bit more cosiderate. But he may just be a big male block head and it will take a while to crack the block.

It'll be a LOT of work for you!! and he is going to have to want to change or he won't won't won't.

You may feel it's worth a try and it may be....you can always reassess...

Please keep coming here to vent...I'll listen.

March 4, 2000
11:16 am
Avatar
Brenda
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Well, I am up early morning and sick to my stomach. I couldnt sleep last
night because he was out till one or two. I knew he was driving drunk and
sure enough he came home so drunk he couldnt talk. He admitted he was an
alcoholic and passed out. He was dressed up in his finest and I was
wondering how the hell do i know where he was.
I have never suspected him of cheating but now I Just dont trust anything he
says or does.
Every promise he has made to me he has broken.
Not only did he come home late but he was hardly able to stand. The
insurance on the vehicle he was driving was mine and it is registered in my
name. I fhe killed any one , or himself, I would of been liable not to
mention that he could of been charged.
I am ready to go away this weekend on my own. My heart feels like it is
literally broken and lying in my chest. I really do love this man, but he is
destroying himself and all our dreams and our love. We were healing for a
while there and then he started drinking. ITs unreal, if its not one thing
with him, its another. I have compassion for him and want him to face his
demons and grow but I now have the same compassion for myself and even more
for my children.
I have to get away. I got up quietly so that he wouldnt hear me so i can
leave this morning and have this weekend to me and my children. He heard me
and bolted up just as quick, so now I have to face him using the children
excuse and manipulating me into bringing him a long.......
Last night he said to me, im an alcoholic and I want to talk in the monring.
This is the first time he has ever said this, but I feel it is soo late, and
what can I do.
Has anyone else gone through this.
The pain is so deep. I feel such grief for him, myself and the children.
It hurts even more because my brother is dying of alcohol abuse, cocaine
addiction and aids and now this. I have had so much suffering and pain in my
life, I am done with it.
I have a degree, talents and people skills.
I just feel like taking my children and starting a new life. I am fed up.
-----------------------------------------------------

March 4, 2000
2:02 pm
Avatar
janes
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

If the very last sentence intrue then act on the second to the last sentence.

YOU CANNOT CHANGE HIM NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LOVE HIM. GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT GETOUT. He will alwasy want to "tlak in the Morning". He has found another weakness..if he will go to counseling admit he's an alcohal and talk the talk you will stay and he won't have to REALLY change cuz you have so much compassion and love.

You are right not to trust him. It is unfortunate that you let the power of attorney and name on the business thing draw you back in..but some lessons are tough to learn and tougher to stick with.

But you have made gains. But HIS PROBLEMS AREN'T YOURS HE is your problem. If he were a wart or diseased mole you would have it removed. REMOVE HIM

NOW go back and read the posts from BROC. It is okay if you stu;mble ..it's okaly if you fall. But get back up and GO ON preferably without him.

I hope he doesn't go this weekend. you need a break from the p-r-ic-k

March 5, 2000
12:05 am
Avatar
BROC
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Brenda,

Its a good thing I don't live near you because I would have to come over and kick you right in the ass!

Thats the frustrated friend in me talking.

I guess I understand now how people felt about me a year ago. I just wouldn't listen. Eventually I did, but man it took awhile.

Listen, and listen good. Janes is right, we all are. He is a prick. He is an alcoholic. He will not change. He will not change. Its no coincidence he is an alcohilic. Your bother is, and I bet you ass dear old dad is. Once again, proves that repeating your pattern will happen over and over. So true!

Also, you write about things were going along fine and then, boom, the shit hit again. It was less than a week ago you were here saying the same shit you are now. Think about that! Really! How pathetic, truley pathetic is it when a week changes your whole world. Its like that one week was a lifetime of happiness for you. Wow. Your easily impressed. No, really.

Let me let you in on a secret Brenda. Remember me talking about him being predictable? Well, you are too. WE ALL ARE. KNow what? HE FUCKING KNOWS THAT AND WILL USE IT AS HE HAS YOUR ENTIRE FUCIKING RELATIONSHIP. Like Janes said, "lets talk." "Oh, I added your name." Listen, I was just like him. PRICK! I went out with my buddies to get away. Get away and numb the pain. My gf was a pain in the ass, and I thought that was the cause. So I drank, chased woman, I could be as wreckless as I wanted? WHY? Cause I knew my ex. would put up with it. Hell, her name might as well been brenda.

Sorry to seem so hostile. But me, Janes, the rest have read this book. I was this book, and know how it ends. You will be singing the same tune you are now in a month, two, three, years, etc. UNTIL you change. You can come here and vent. We will listen.

BUT YOUR LIFE WILL NOT CHANGE UNTIL YOU DO!

PERIOD.

B-

March 5, 2000
8:00 am
Avatar
janes
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Brenda...Broc...in his endearing in your face way....IS ABSOULTUTELY TOTALLY right!!

Look at it this way...ther is NO HOPE FOR HIM unless you leave. and you may never be able to go back. He will not change with you there enabling him to do what ever he wants. Your behavior makes it okay for him to do these things. You letting yourself be HIS victim...allows him , gives him premission to do shitty things to you.
(and by extension your kids)
If you want a decent family life for your children get out and make one for them.

You are letting circumstances turn them into abusers and codependents.

It's hard I know but get out.

March 6, 2000
12:43 pm
Avatar
Brenda
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ok, I understand, but it is so hard.
I am afraid, when I leave, he will get worse and then pursue access and be visiting and taking my children out while he is drinking etc
He will probably get a new chick and push her in their face.
He has done very little parenting and does not know how to take care of little ones. HE is negligent and just plain "out of it"
It is hard to deny access here.
I dont want to do that, but if he is going to continue on with the drinking and the abusing, well he is an UNFIT parent.
He threatened me if i ever denied him access, he would go for custody and that is my worst nightmare.
My children are everything to me.
I am in love with him, as far as I know what love is, and I feel sorry for him. He needs me and I really dont want to see him go down under all this stuff.
He also makes a lot of money with the business, he says if i leave him, he will ditch the business because the only reasons he works as he does is :for us" whether that is true or not , i doubt it. I would be fu***ed with no income with a newborn and two little ones.
Its easy for you guys to give me this advice, but I am in the most vulnerable position right now.
I also have no family support.
This is so hard for me.
I want to do what is healthy for my children and myself, but I also dont want to bring so much stress upon myself that I buckle under.
He jumped in my van this weekend when I was leaving, he said "please dont go without me"
I had no choice.
He slept in the back, in the same clothes he had wore the night before when he went on his big drunk, they were beautiful clothes and his hair and face was handsome, but I was disgussted with him. The children kept saying to me "why is daddy tired, why doesnt he come have breakfast with us?"
I just had to say "he worked hard"
As I ate breakfast with my children, I thought "what a disgussting and shitty weekend" Im hauling around a drunk in the back of my passenger van, who happens to be my husband, how did i get here?"
I felt sorry for my children and my self.........
We arrived at the beautiful beachfront house, and he promptly went to the porch and lied on the patio chairs in the sun for hours.
I had to run around get groceries, take care of the kids and cook lunch etc..I finally got to sit down and rest with him on the porch ( I wanted to take in the sun too ) and he smiled and tried to hold my hand.
I pulled back. I couldnt let him touch me. He said, Brenda, we can work this out. YOu have issues too you know. I wouldnt drink like I do if you wouldnt nag me to come home like you do. Well I said "thats a typical alcoholic and non responsible person talking" He didnt get angry, he stayed civil and said that he knew that he probably had a drinking problem and felt it had been developing since he was a teenager. He said, he was worse as a teenager..I couldnt see that.
I said " Idont even know where you are untill two in the morning, how do i know you arent fu(***ing some bitch "
I was pretty angry, but I kept it down as I knew the children might hear me on the beach.
and it isnt worth raising my voice or arguing, I know what is going on, to argue is just to try to change someone and I cant do that. I can just state how he hurt me and thats it, I gave him an ultimatum.
He said to me, " I work hard, I dont cheat, I love you, but I have fri nights....it was "silly" to have drank as much as I did, but I am entitled to have time to myself"
I coudn't disagree with him being entitled to his own time, but, I said "does it have to be at a bar with a bunch of loser alcoholics?"
why dont you go fishing or take up kayaking? I feel as if ive married a red neck, you are disgussting.
I couldnt help but say this, I really was disgusted. He was destroying everything we dreamed for and believed in. He was hurting me and the children to no end.
He had the audacity to say to me " I really dont understand how i am hurting you, you really need to let go Brenda...." At this point i thought he was a half wit and told him that I was not willing to discuss any of this bullshit any more, it would only be done in therapy.
He admitted he needed addiction counselling, well first he was going to see if in fact he was an addict then he would get counselling for it and cointinue couples counselling.
I feel its so fucking late!!!!!!!
He really seems to mean it when he loves me. He was emotional and says I dont need you Brenda, I love you.
I said are you sure?
He said yes. I said, "so if i left, you could go on alright, get yourself to gether ok?" I felt like a bitch for saying that, he said yes.
But, I know he would do everything to get me back, or he would do the complete opposite, get another codep woman and continue on his ways, while pulling my poor children into what i feel WOULD BE A WORSE SITUATION.
YOU SEE I AM STUCK BETWEEN THE BETTER OF TWO NIGHTMARES........

March 6, 2000
1:11 pm
Avatar
Brenda
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Beattie (1987) says recovery from codependency is simple: detach yourself
from the other person, take responsibility for managing only your own life,
and be good to yourself. Then she writes two books describing how to do that
(the usual: build self-esteem, become assertive, overcome the barriers to
intimacy, set goals, handle your emotions, etc.).

Detachment from another person does not involve rejecting the person, it is
rejecting your feeling responsible for them. As Beattie explains, "detachment
is caring without going crazy." To become detached from another person
requires a clear notion of who we are, what our purposes are, and what limits
we place on our involvement in another person's life. Being able to detach
involves "having well defined boundaries." The boundaries between people may
be very vague and fluid, especially in very close relationships, e.g. a
mother or father may "feel for" a son as he struggles with a physical
handicap or a daughter as she goes though the loss of her first love. A
spouse may feel great pride as his/her partner gets promoted or graduates
with honors. Our identification with our children or spouse may be so great
that we "live their lives with them," experiencing their joys and problems
ourselves. The boundary between their life and our life may be weak; in which
case, their life invades our life; as a codependent, another person's life
becomes our life...and we try to fix it.

Very dependent people have vague boundaries; they feel the need for others to
"take over" and make them feel sufficient and whole. People who have been
raised to be caregivers--or to feel unworthy of love unless they give a lot
more than they get--tend to believe they should be strong and "take over" and
take care of other people's problems (weak boundaries). If we have been
controlled by someone, it may be unclear to us what parts of us are ours to
control and what parts someone else has a right or needs to control (weak
boundaries). Of course, our original bonds with our parents (involving weak
or strong boundaries and major or minor control over us) have powerful
effects on our relationships throughout life.

If a 25-year-old child or a spouse constantly gets into trouble, say some
illegal activity, the weak-boundaried, codependent parent or spouse would
continue to respond with dread and excuses for each offense (almost as if
he/she had committed the crimes) and feel compelled every time (probably
thinking "I can't let this ever happen again") to do everything possible to
buy the best legal defense to avoid punishment. On the other hand, the
strong-boundaried, detached person would have regrets but hold the other
person responsible for his/her illegal behavior, let him/her fend for
him/herself, and let them take the consequences. It isn't a matter of
codependents loving the other person more than detached people; rather, it is
differing degrees of enmeshment or confused identification with the other
person. It is a matter of trying to control someone else's life.

If you are a codependent and overly involved in running someone else's life,
you need to withdraw and detach yourself. This is done by "setting limits" or
"setting a boundary" with this person. In this way you clarify what you will
and will not do for another person; you establish your rights and set the
limits of your commitment to the other person (even if you feel you should do
everything for them). Explain to the person you have been worrying that you
have done all you can, that they must now care for themselves, that they
probably need professional help as well as a support group, that you have,
do, and will love them deeply, but you want to make the best of your own
life. Then, get started immediately focusing on improving your own life. Find
useful, interesting, important things to do (see chapter 3). Have some
successes and some fun. (Be sure you don't go looking for another addict to
take care of.)

How can you tell the difference between codependency and just being a good,
caring person? Probably by your degree of involvement and the amount of pain
you feel. Examples of codependency: If you only think and talk about someone
else's problem, have a long history of unsuccessful efforts to rescue him/her
or change his/her behavior, and always feel "I have to do something" to help
a particular person, you are codependent and need to detach. If you have been
terribly upset for months with a person's problems (or with a series of
people with similar problems) and are thinking "I can't go on living like
this" but you do, you are codependent and need to detach. If your lover has
drained you of all your assets or your spouse has had repeated affairs or
abandons you while "working at the office," and you are "going out of your
mind" trying to hold on to him/her, you are codependent and need to detach.
If you react with horror to the suggestion that you get out of this mess
which is destroying your life, saying "Oh, my God, I couldn't do that; I care
too much," you are codependent and need to detach.

If our self-concept is low and has weak, unclear boundaries, we may (a) be
dependent, taken over, used, or manipulated by others, or (b) feel so
identified with a needy person that we are compelled to take over and manage
the other person's life. In the beginning, the codependent looks like a
strong "savior" but in the end they feel crushed. If our boundaries are thick
walls, no one can get close to us and we aren't open to change. Ideally, our
boundaries will be strong enough to resist unreasonable, destructive demands
(no matter how flattering they seem at first) but flexible enough to let in
freely given intimacy and love. More self-esteem (chapter 14) and
assertiveness (chapter 13) are needed if our boundaries are overly weak or
overly strong. In therapy, codependents are repeatedly told the Three C's:
You didn't cause it; you can't control it; you can cure it! In short, you can
stop supporting the addict's sickness and get a healthy life of your own.

Mental health professionals are rather critical of the addiction and
codependency concepts. For one thing, psychologists often feel parents are
unfairly blamed for these problems (and the shame-based inner child), rather
than the environment or our culture. Other critics point out that women
suffer most of the codependency and women are blamed for these problems, i.e.
the victim is blamed. Also, critics point out that caring and loyal
codependents are extremely controlled by others and, yet, the recommended
treatment by writers in this field is often a 12-step program which teaches
"I am helpless" and turns over all the remaining control over their lives to
a "higher power." Instead, perhaps, they need to take control themselves of
their lives and relationships. For more criticism of the codependency
concept, see Tavris (1992) and Solomon (1994). The latter author attacks the
emphasis on being independent by citing the benefits of mutual dependency or
caring in love relationships. Healthy giving and loving support should not be
confused with unhealthy codependency.

OK, SO I REALISE I AM CODEP, I HAVE MY OWN PROBLEMS TO CURE AND I WILL NO LONGER FOCUS OR VENT ABOUT HIM.
I NEED TO PUT ALL MY ENERGY INTO MY OWN LIFE, CHIDLREN, COUNSELLING, GROUP AND AMBITIONS.
i am not going to leave him at this point, i am going to go through the couples counselling ( If we are getting no where in three months, im giving up ) and I am going to be here while he goes through his own counselling, not longer than a few months. If he doesnt get it, and he still fucked up, by that time I will have made headway in my own life, I am a very ambitious, determined person, I admit I have tons of my own shit thats holding me back, and WILL make it on my own.
from now on my posts here will be related to MY recovery and independence. I feel lighter already...relationships are our greatest teachers, I wouldnt of come to this place of self understanding if it hadnt been for all that ive been through with my partner and my past.....ok, gotta stay focused on ME>......me..........me...................me..................me......................me.................me...................me.....in the end, all there really is, is me anyway. Thankyou.

March 6, 2000
1:17 pm
Avatar
Brenda
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Try the Joy2meu site, Robert Burney has a very positive view of codependency
and a larger expanded definition.

For instance: Researchers were beginning to understand that the emotional
trauma of early childhood affects a person as an adult. They realized that
if not healed, these early childhood emotional wounds, and the subconscious
attiitudes adopted because of them, would dictate the adult's reaction to ,
and the path through, life. Thus we walk around looking like and trying to
act like adults, while reaction to life out of the emotional wounds, and
attitudes of childhood, We keep repeating the patterns of abandonment, abuse
and deprivation that we experienced in childhoos.

To love your inner child is to heal yourself and then the world. He has a
book he has written, you might want to read it.

When we start looking at ourselves we need a sure foundation, of love,
acceptance and tools to change. Condemnation and judgement will only lock you
in, this is the dawn of a new age, old definitions give way to new ones.
This is the era of unconditional love. When you unconditionally love yourself
you are headed down a whole new path.

Praying that Gods truth will give you the freedom to work on you without all
the extra stuff. Love G

March 6, 2000
1:22 pm
Avatar
Brenda
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Peace

Anxiety is often our first reaction to conflict, problems, or even our own
fears. In those moments, detaching and getting peaceful may seem disloyal or
apathetic. We think: If I really care, I'll worry; if this is really
important to me, I must stay upset. We convince ourselves that outcomes will
be positively affected by the amount of time we spend worrying.

Our best problem-solving resource is peace. Solutions arise easily and
naturally out of a peaceful state. Often, fear and anxiety block solutions.
Anxiety gives power to the problem, not the solution. It does not help to
harbour turmoil. It does not help.

Peace is available if we choose it. In spite of choas and unsolved problems
around us, all is well. Things will work out. We can surround ourselves with
the resources of the Universe: water, earth, a sunset, a walk, a prayer, a
friend. We can relax and let ourselves feel peace.

Today I will let go of my need to stay in turmoil. I will cultivate peace
and trust that timely solutions and goodness will arise naturally and
harmoniously out of the wellspring of peace. I will consciously let go and
let God.

Forum Timezone: UTC -8
Most Users Ever Online: 247
Currently Online:
35
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
onedaythiswillpass: 1134
zarathustra: 562
StronginHim77: 453
free: 433
2013ways: 431
curious64: 408
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 49
Members: 110922
Moderators: 5
Admins: 3
Forum Stats:
Groups: 8
Forums: 74
Topics: 38536
Posts: 714207
Newest Members:
Corties, patrickstayes, kevinkovalsky, izzy39, RoyFollman, kevin021
Moderators: arochaIB: 1, devadmin: 9, Tincho: 0, Donn Gruta: 0, Germain Palacios: 0
Administrators: admin: 21, ShiningLight: 572, emily430: 29

Copyright © 2019 MH Sub I, LLC. All rights reserved. Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Health Disclaimer