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dazed and confused
November 29, 2001
12:33 pm
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zetagirl
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I need some help, my husband and I have been married for a little over 3 years but we have been together for over 13 years. In this relationship the good outweighs the bad. It would take 3 days to read this email if I listed all of our issues, so I will go with the most recent. I lost my mom about 11 months ago, and I have let him know that I can not focus on him right now, whenever I think that things can't get any worse they typically do, because of his attitude, he is very jealous. I am sorry I am rambling, my question is he didn't hit me this weekend but grabbed me hard enough to put bruises on my arms. I love him and I don't want to make him think that I have accepted this behavior, but I don't know if I want to lose him or not. Please help, we have had so many problems in the past that I really don't want to deal with this right now. I want to know am I being realistic in thinking that he will eventually find the error of his ways????????

November 29, 2001
12:45 pm
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Molly
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I suggest you go get some counseling. Dealing with the loss of a parent is really a shock to the old emotional system. There are so many different things to process, and it will spill into everything else, and combined with the world events of late, you could use some help.
With respect to your marriage, I always suggest Dr. Phils Relational Rescue especially where there are several issues to address. yes, he knows the errors of his ways, I am sure he has a great deal of shame, we do know how to bring out the best and the worst in a man, but if in 13 years this is the first, I would just be careful, and try not to punish him. He knows, I am sure. If after you have done some grief counseling, and personal counseling read the book, and still want more, then find a good marriage counselor. When the conversation gets heated, call for a time out, and stop it. Other wise, that dynamic of getting physical with continue, and grow. You have been through alot lately give your self permission to get some support.

November 30, 2001
11:01 am
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zetagirl
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Thank you, I agree but my husband doesn't feel that counseling is a necessity, he says that I should try and solve my own problems. So I may have to do it alone.

November 30, 2001
1:15 pm
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Molly
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really you can change the dynamics of a relationship by just one. It takes two to do a dance right? I would do just that, take care of you, do some research, talk to some one, and go forth. If he goes on the journey with you great, if not you will be a better person, for being pro active, be open to the possibilities. Having lost my mother just a few years after loosing my dad, I fully get the mental stuff that we sometimes deny even exists, loosing a parent, again is a very difficult thing to process.

November 30, 2001
4:42 pm
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Ladeska
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Oh boy, that was a hoot - the statement that he said - it's "your" problem basically that he put bruises on your arm. LOL! Um, no. You don't want to lose him by bringing up what he did to you???? Do you Hear yourself here? What kind of thinking is that? Wow....he's sure got you roped in and under his thumb, huh? How dare you complain and if you do - please do beg for his forgiveness, afterall - it was your fault that he got upset in the first place, so - he didn't do anything wrong - it's all you....oh yeah....been there.

Sweetheart - you better pull your head out from wherever it's been because you are very much in the dark here. Just the fact that you had to come here to get validation that you have the right to say something to him is evidence enough that you are very far gone here. I'm sure you do have many problems and I'm quite sure his version of loving you - probably isn't love at all.

It's really disturbing to me when I see women dance this dance and feel guilty for it, like you don't have the right to your feelings, to your opinions, to your life. I don't know where you live but would bet money you live in the south. Just sounds familiar to me with that culture in particular. Women are to be seen and not heard. Unless of course you can grow into being the biggest spider queen of all time - which alot of them do - in order to survive. The fist within the velvet glove sort of thing.

I do think you are being unrealistic in thinking he will find the error of his ways. He just told you flat out -it's you that needs the counseling - not him. You definitely need counseling but - know beforehand - it will all hinge on "you getting YOUR act together here because you are the one with the problem." Is that okay with you and if it is - why is that okay?

November 30, 2001
5:49 pm
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Ladeska
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Thought you might find this interesting and is from a website that you might be interested in visiting:

http://www.geocities.com/Athen.....index.html

The narcissist does his damnedest to avoid intimacy. He constantly lies about every aspect of his life: his self, his history, his vocation and avocations, his emotions. This false information and the informative asymmetry in the relationship guarantee his informative lead, or "advantage". This is an active state of dis-intimisation and dis-information, which cast a pall of cover up, separateness, asymmetry and mystery over the narcissist's relationships.

The narcissist lies even in therapy. In encounters with professionals of all kinds, he uses professional lingo to "belong" to this unique class of people and to the most unique group of all: the Renaissance Men. By demonstrating his control of several professional jargons he almost proves (to himself) that he is superhuman.
In therapy, this has the effect of "objectifying" the situation and emotionally detaching from it.
The narcissist's behaviour is perceived by those closest to him to be an act of concealment of his self.
This is especially true in the most intimate of relationships: the couple.

The narcissist's behaviour is experienced by his mate as frustrating and growth-cramping. To live with him is akin to living with a non-entity, with dead or dormant qualities. The partners of the narcissist often describe a feeling of imprisonment and punishment.
The psychological source of this kind of behaviour could well be a kind of transference relationship. Most narcissists have unresolved conflicts with their Primary Objects (=parents or caregivers), especially with the parent of the opposite sex. The development of intimacy skills was hindered at an early stage. Punishing and frustrating the partner or spouse is a way of getting back at the abusive parent. It is a way of avoiding a grave prospective narcissistic hurt brought on by being abandoned.

The narcissist, it seems, is ever the hurt child. His attitude serves a paramount need: not to be hurt again. The narcissist anticipates his abandonment and, paradoxically, by trying to avoid it, he precipitates it. Maybe he does that on purpose: after all, if he is the cause of his own abandonment – surely he is in control of his own relationships.
To be in control – this unconquerable drive – is the direct result of being deserted, neglected, avoided, or abused at an early stage in life. "Never again" – vows the narcissist – "If anyone will do the leaving, it will be I."

The narcissist is devoid of empathy and incapable of intimacy with others as well as with himself. To him, lying has become a second nature. An alter (False) Ego soon takes over. He begins to believe his own lies. He makes himself to be what he wants to be and not what he is. So, he measures life by events, difficulties, negative externalities and predictions and projections related to them. He prefers this "objective and quantifiable" type of treating the world to the "softer" version of his feelings.

The narcissist is so afraid of the pool of negative feelings inside him – that he would rather deny them and thus refrain from being intimate with himself. His predisposition would be to maintain asymmetric relationships, wherein he both maintains and displays his superiority. Even with his mate or spouse, he is forever striving to be the Guru, the Lecturer, the Teacher (even the Mystic), the Psychologist, the Experienced Elder. The narcissist never talks – he lectures. He never moves – he poses. He is forever patronising, condescending, patronizing, forgiving, or patiently teaching. This is the more benign form of narcissism. In its more malignant variants, the narcissist is degrading, humiliating, sadistic, impatient, and full of rage and indignation. He always is critical and torment all around him with endless, bitter cynicism and with displays of disgust and repulsion.
There is no way out of the narcissistic catch: the narcissist despises, in equal measures, both the submissive and the independent, the strong (who constitute a threat) and the weak (who are, by definition, despicable).

Asked to explain his lack of ability to make contact in a true sense of the word, the narcissist comes up with a host of superbly crafted explanations. These are bound to include some "objective" difficulties, which have to do with the narcissist's traits, his history and the characteristics of his environment (both human and non-human). The narcissist is the first to admit the difficulties experienced by his human (and, sometimes, physical) environment in trying to adapt to him. These difficulties make him unique and explain away the gap between his grandiose theories about himself – and the grey, shabby pattern that is his life. The narcissist has no shred of a doubt who should adapt to whom: the world should adjust itself to the narcissist's superior standards and requirements (and, thus, incidentally, transform itself into a better place).

December 2, 2001
4:50 pm
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deshong
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Zetagirl,

Please understand that violence is not just punching you in the face. Violence and physical aggression can be pinching, spitting, grabbing, shoving, pulling or jolting you. This was not an "accident". The next time he may "accidentally" choke you to death. He needs just as much help as you do. He does not want you to go to counselling because you might talk about his behaviors. He does not want to change.

In a "real" loving marriage, a mature man would love to be there for his wife to help her work through any problem. Your problems should be his problem, therefore he has a problem also.

December 4, 2001
12:34 pm
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zetagirl
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thanks guys, I appreciate and comprehend all of the advice. You guys are right, he does have a problem and I have confronted him on them and he has shown his true colors to me. This relationship feels like a prison that I am about to break out of. My dad wants me to come home for a while, but I have a great job with great and supportive friends, so that is a really hard decision right now. I really appreciate the realistic advice because so far everyone that I have talked to thinks this type of behavior is cute, they say that my man is showing me that he is jealous, I have realized that he is the same boy that I met 14 years ago.

December 4, 2001
2:18 pm
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Ladeska
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Oh my GOD, not that stupid line!!! OH he's soo cute when he's jealous!! You'd think people would be more intelligent than that! So, why don't we all just enable these creeps to be creeps??!! That's how it happens. Just give them license to do it by saying crap like this.... Man, this irritates the heck out of me.

Yeah, well, I heard that kind of talk in the south, too, when the men would get together and talk about how cute it was to keep their women in line by beating the hell out of them. And then later would hear from the women folk - that well, she must have deserved it....didn't know how to keep her mouth shut and be a proper wife.

Yeah, yeah....let's come out of the dark ages people and show that we are a little bit above the animal kingdom here - even if some still insist on walking around on all fours! And about all I can say to those people that insist on being animals is - there's always....a bigger, meaner, smarter predator in the jungle and at some point - you will be dinner as well.

Cute jealousy, huh? Yep, seen the pictures and bruises of that one.... And people wonder why....we end up with alot of abuse in our society? It's because of THAT mentality - right there.

December 4, 2001
2:26 pm
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Molly
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Go see Dad for a while, bet he will explain just how cute those actions are. Who ya been talking to 12 year olds? Is there no sanity in this world. Ya know in the paper this morning they stated that there is a shortage of housing for domestic violence victims, as well as sexual abuse victims, and little hope of more money comming in right now since 9-11. With an abundance of victims. So, plan ahead.

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