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Could someone clear this Confusion/Contradition to me?
October 28, 2006
12:13 pm
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Rasputin
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In my emotional healing program, we were given a number of principles we should abide by, such as: (Take a careful look at these 2 statements):

- We should take risks on people, situations, circumstances etc.

- We should be prudent and careful in our contacts. People need to earn our trust enough to embark on serious relationship with them. This applies on both genders.

As you can notice. Both principles are Contradictory and Confusing!!!

This healing program changed so many aspects of my codes of conduct and principles. For instance, I started to take risks on many folks I meet in my daily life. At work, if co-worker asks me for my phone #, I would give it to her right away. Before this program, I used to be usually more prudent and take more time to get to know people & feel comfy to them.

Nevertheless, there were positive cases where I took risks and it proven to be fruitful. My male neighbour whom we befriended each other from the 1st encouter. Last week, we went grocery shopping and he really acted like a noble gentleman with me. Another good example, a male co-worker whom I even opened my heart to him and shared with him about my latest romantic problems and he gave me lots of excellent good advice and feedback.

Both of these men proven to be compassionate, respectful and trustworthy folks and I don't regret spending anytime with them or giving one of them my phone #.

Only one female co-worker I regretted giving her my phone #. In fact due to her aggressive controling personality, she demanded my phone aggressively # and since I needed to have at least a close relationship with a co-worker, I gave it to her even tho my gut feeling told me that I did not feel comfy to her when I saw her from the 1st time even tho I was sociable with her at work.

Now since learing thru this program to be a risk-taker, after each risk I take, I make the assessment of each risk - i.e. whose worthy of keeping and whose worthy of discarding.

So, by doing this Risk-evaluation, I have decided to cut off my relationship with this female-co-worker due to finding out that she is: Dishonest, Resentful & Jealous of me, Controler, Subtly Sarcastic of me, even tho I am a big cheerleader to her and always give her lots of affirmations and love when she does not do that back to me. Even when she does some good, she does it with bad motive. In addition, she enjoys hurting me emotionally even tho she knows very well that I am an abused person going thru healing process.

Thus I started to take measures to protect myself from here & end up our relationship. I stopped responding to her calls or returning them when she calls me hoping that she will get the message across. If she does not and continues to call me pretending the problem does not exisit - I will have to tell her the truth about how I feel toward her. PERIOD!!!

My question is:

How can I take risks while protecting myself from toxic people esp with regard to those 2 contradictory principles in our program above-mentioned?

Thanks! ~Ras~

October 28, 2006
12:51 pm
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Rasputin
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Bump up for feedback please!!!

October 28, 2006
12:56 pm
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atalose
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gut instinks, always listen to them. If you meet someone and there is something about them you are just not sure of, then hold back, hesitate and give yourself time to get to know that person a little better before allowing them further into your life. Giving someone your phone # is an invitation to come a little closer into your life. Setting boundaries ahead of time works well. When i am asked for my phone #, my statndard answer is, I'm sorry I'm never at home, its a waist of time trying to contact me. I tell them my cell is only for work. That way when I am feeling comfortable and have gotten to know someone better, then I will give out my number. I never use an answering machine, I do unplug my phone often and when they try to call and can't get me, I say "see, I am never home or I must have had it unplugged". That way I can and do screen my calls with caller ID and I know that if it's really important, family and truely close friends, they will call my cell. I never have messages to return or ever feel obligated to do so.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

October 28, 2006
1:05 pm
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elizabeth anne
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Red Flags, Gut instinct... I think we have to be very aware of the people we want to open up to... There are those that may recognize our vulnerability and may want to take advantage of that for their own selfish means....Like the agressive, hurtful co-worker... You do have choices on who you think you can trust

October 28, 2006
1:05 pm
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elizabeth anne
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Red Flags, Gut instinct... I think we have to be very aware of the people we want to open up to... There are those that may recognize our vulnerability and may want to take advantage of that for their own selfish means....Like the agressive, hurtful co-worker... You do have choices on who you think you can trust

October 28, 2006
1:13 pm
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Rasputin
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That is very true. Being an intuitive person Atal; I always follow my gut instincts. They rarely make mistakes.

With this female co-worker, I needed someone I can discuss work-related issues with, even tho I did not feel comfy with her from the 1st moment I saw her.

At least I learned from this negative experience and in each outing we went out together, I learned something practical from her.

So there is always positive things happening even when we make goofy mistakes!!!

Thanks Atal for your wise input. BTW: I want to try your phrase. However, I also believe that HONESTY is the best policy. Why can't we simply tell people we don't feel comfy with this: "I am sorry I can't give you my phone # I don't know you enough and it is not my habit to give people my phone # right away."

Mind you when I studied at college, we were requested to give away our phone # to each other for practical reasons and each of us used it correctly and did not abuse that right and it was for business discussion/course-related questions. No more.

With this female co-worker, she seemed to make it more than that. Although I need a female gf so badly - I don't have any - yet I must not settle for anyone/less.

I will choose to be friendless rather than with toxic unhealthy gfs!!!

October 28, 2006
1:21 pm
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Rasputin
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That's it: Trust your Gut Feelings/ instincts. Thanks Liza!!!

Thanks folks for the insight and love!!!

October 28, 2006
2:02 pm
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Travlin_lite
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My two bits I agree with gut instinct although it might not readily appear at once. Example I met a woman "minister" thought she was "real" but a little while later found out quite the contrary..then I had to go to my belief system and she was striking out all around. So for me I take my time, setting boundaries, try not to compare and listen to my gut and then give it some time and reevaluate is this a good thing for me. I had to reevaluate alot of my friendships the last two years and I mean friends from 30+ years and some of those had to go because I have changed and they are where they are..I will always appreciate our times together but the closeness isn't there anymore. Yes, we have to risk that's a everyday choice just like to we smile to the person we are greeting..I do..but does that mean I will want to get to know them usually not. Will I ever share my whole life with anyone not again? Maybe on paper and be annonymous it's just that I realize because abusers seek the abused I don't want to repeat past behaviors or put myself in that position. Again I go with gut feelings..

October 28, 2006
3:03 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Hi Ras,

Well it does look a bit like a paradox, but I think it is resolvable.

I think the prudence part is about being realistic about *other* people.

"Risk," I think, has more to do with ourselves.

For example, you meet a new person. You could "take a chance" that you have already learned enough to distinguish between trustworthy, untrustworthy and downright dangerous people. That one is really about you.

I think the "taking risks" part is really about strengthening our own ability to trust (in ourselves, as well as others) and strenghtening our general courage and desire to be the primary authors of our own life stories.

When the music starts, only you can decide of you are going to sit this one out or get up and dance.

October 28, 2006
3:50 pm
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Rasputin
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TL - I agree with you. Sometimes I make mistakes as well. Most people are taught to be nice. Even jerks are nice people. Being an intuitive person that I am, sometimes jerks/abusers can be very subtle & mimic decent folks' behaviour.

Once I met a female co-worker who really "seemed nice" in a very clever way, even I could not see her deceit at 1st. However, as time advanced, I happened to be sitting right next to her, I found out that she was Charmer/Abuser/NPD person, disguised as "Nice Woman". Mind you, women are even more scary and even more clever and sly at hiding their identity than men. No wonder, (I am a female BTW), we mistake them as nice.

Good for you for recognizing that and setting boundaries with that woman "Minsiter". Prudence is wisdom indeed in all our relationship: romantic or same-genders ones!!!

WD - Thanks for the feedback. Risk-taking is very critical. It really stengthens us - we abused folks - and gives us much self-confidence and courage in our own judgement and our own instincts.

This is how we grow every day!

I will keep you posted about any new development with regard to this female co-worker!

~Ras~

October 28, 2006
3:51 pm
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needtoheal
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Ras---

How's Mandy and Lala getting along???

October 28, 2006
3:54 pm
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mj
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The should in each is enough to give me a warning flag. Shoulds are control words.

October 28, 2006
4:03 pm
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Rasputin
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Need - check out that Beach thread. I am having a surprise for all of you.

MJ - Could you please clarity those sentences by pasting them? The "should thing" I am unable to follow what you mean.

October 28, 2006
5:44 pm
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atalose
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Ras,
With me, that is the honest truth, I never have my answering maching on and my phone is usualy unplugged. I don't ever feel I am being dishonest when I tell people that.
I think by stating that you don't give your number out to people until you know them better, might put people on the defensive and cause them to back off from you altogether.
Another thing I do is give out an e-mail address instead of a phone #, explaining that if they want to get in touch with me, drop me a note, it's an easier way of contacting me. I have several e-mails addresses for this purpose as well.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

October 28, 2006
7:04 pm
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mj
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- We should take risks on people, situations, circumstances etc.

- We should be prudent and careful in our contacts. People need to earn our trust enough to embark on serious relationship with them. This applies on both genders.

Hey Ras, in your first post!
Anytime someone uses should to me is a warning flag.

October 28, 2006
7:24 pm
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Rasputin
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Yes MJ, but these are the principles we were taught in my emotional healing. We need to use these principles and codes in our interactions with others. It cannot be phrased any other way.

Alt - Sorry, I did not mean you were being dishonest with people. However, society puts so much emphasis on us to be polite and not hurt people's feelings which is something I don't like frankly.

Let me give you an example: when someone tells me "NO" for something, I am very understanding and sympathetic with people and do NOT get angry or defensive. Folks have the right to check out things 1st.

To me, my friends or friends-to-be should be like that. If people get hurt in this situation, it is their problem. We should not act like co-dep victims and be too supersensitive just to please them/ very codep behaviour.

Mind you I am very sensitive person but in this case I apply things upon myself and see my reaction. If I don't get hurt, then others should NOT!

November 4, 2006
9:43 pm
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Rasputin
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Update...

She called me - this female co-worker - today and I picked up the phone. She said that she left a message on my voicemail about 2 weeks ago with regard to her being honoured for volunteering in a theatre play - She does acting there and she was greatly appreciated by those people for her volunteering implication.

She asked me if I did receive her message or not to which I answered...yes but did not reply to her due to being (busy - I was lying). I did not want to hurt her feelings, being a sensitive & reserved person I am, and also coz she sounded very enthusiastic and keen about this occasion.

I was polite, brief, affirming for her success, but I was not as warm and as talkative as I used to be in our previous calls b4. I think she could feel it but did not want to believe it.

Then she asked me what I was doing tomorrow after church, I said I don't know it would depend on if the weather is nice or not (I was being vague to avoid going out with her), and then she said that if I wanted to do or go out somewhere together to call her and I politely said yes (of course I was being polite her, I don't mean it) and then we hung up.

When I hung up, I regretted not telling her the truth about wanting to end up the relationship between us and only keep it in the office due to our different personality.

However, I think what stopped me from confronting her is...my sensitive and reserved personality. I've always been hateful of being a bearer of ill-tidings. I have always been good at cheering up people and encouraging them, that's why she likes me and wanted to tell me that coz she knows I am the affirming and encouraging type.

However, I still wonder will she get the hint that I want to end up the relationship with her OR should I confront her???

What do you think? Why do I shy away from telling people the truth? Have I behaved well with her? Honestly, I was being diplomat and did not want to hurt her feelings, esp. at this hour of her being honoured for her volunteering work.

WAS I CO-DEPNDENT WITH HER OR tactful and diplomat with her? Should I postpone our confrontation to another occasion OR DO IT ASAP?

November 4, 2006
10:21 pm
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southgoingzax
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hi ras,

sometimes I think discretion is the better part of valour. If you can ease yourself away from her without confrontation, maybe it is best - she could then just assume you really are too busy to maintain a friendship. However, if she aske you pointblank, I guess you have to tell her the truth of your feelings. I think you did the right thing, not saying anything when she was calling to celebrate her award...I too have trouble saying things that I know could be hurtful. So, I think you handled it very well, and remember, you don't OWE her an explanation - you just need to be true to yourself. I don't think you were being codependent. I think you shouldn't "confront" her unless you feel it necessary.

zax

November 4, 2006
10:30 pm
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Rasputin
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Thanks Zax for your very wise, mature and discerning response. That was a FABULOUS reply!!!! Bless your heart!!!

God bless you so much!!!(((Zax)))

November 4, 2006
10:35 pm
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southgoingzax
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((((ras))))

This world could stand a few more "sensitive" people:)

November 5, 2006
2:55 pm
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Rasputin
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Zax -

I would like to add something to the solution of the problem....if she continues to call me pretending there is nothing wrong even tho I don't call her anymore or return her calls,...then I will have to tell her the truth about our friendship...plainly and simply!!!

November 5, 2006
4:12 pm
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mj
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Hi Ras,

You get to decide who you want friendships with and who you don't. I would rather have someone tell me up front directly than me continuing calling and sensing something isn't feeling right. You can be direct and kind at the same time. For me, I would rather hurt my feelings than someone elses. It doesn't work for me any longer so I am changing my ways. If someone told you they didn't want to be your friend, how would that make you feel? I am learning that not everyone likes me and thats ok too!

November 5, 2006
4:32 pm
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Rasputin
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MJ -

"I am learning that not everyone likes me and thats ok too!"

Yes hon, but remember that not all people are strong enough to hear that we would like to make it more formal or only continue to see them in the office.

This woman has low self-esteem even tho she is quite tough outwardly, and people like that...well we have to tell them the truth in a gentle and careful way coz they get mad easily.

What I will tell her if she continues to call me even when I stop calling her is...that: "I don't think we are the right friends for each other simply coz we have very different personality."

This is a very polite, kind, tactful, and diplomatic response.

If she gets angry/mad for hearing that sentence...well that is her problem. Period!

November 5, 2006
4:36 pm
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mj
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Do you think I am strong? I am not. I am sensitive and have low self esteem. I still would prefer honest directness over unanswered phone calls and people treating me superficially kind. To me, that is more hurtful.

November 5, 2006
4:41 pm
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Rasputin
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(((MJ))) your descriptions about yourself tell me that....you are strong and have HIGH SELF-ESTEEM.

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