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confused about meanings of ideas
November 25, 2001
11:32 pm
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vivcav
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Don't seem to quite get the idea of "unconditional love". My boyfriend who I just broke up with for getting drunk and smaking me around says my love for him should be unconditional (ie forgive him and get over it). Also, how does one not confuse love and pity?

November 26, 2001
12:08 am
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beauty
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i think so...

beauty

November 26, 2001
6:57 am
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eve
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Hi vivcav,

don't let this guy persade you that being used as a doormat or punchingball has anything to do whith unconditional love. Congrats to leaving him!
Read some of these threads, your not alone whith these questions.

November 26, 2001
7:12 am
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lowest self esteem on earth
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I think women's love is often half pity anyway. That's the way women love, because they like taking care of people. (Maternal love)

November 26, 2001
8:56 am
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artist 2
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It's true about women.... they are the nurturers, the nurses, the healers. Get a real good case of a bad man to her and she'll nearly kill herself trying to help him. "But, he can't help it!" she'll say. I'm only speaking from my own experience.

November 26, 2001
10:40 am
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deshong
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He is trying to play on your guilt and manipulate you. You can love him as you are leaving him and moving on with your life!!!He has a screwed up definition of what love is. Love does not include abuse on any level. Love includes limits, boundaries and confrontation when someone is wrong.

Be careful with pity. You could end up obsessing and trying to control others. You can never change someone else only you. Many time we should leave the "helping" part to professional therapists and counselors. We usually end up "in love" supposedly.

November 26, 2001
10:43 am
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artist 2
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Yes, if he can't take confrontation, then he doesn't love. If he doesn't listen to and respect the boundaries you set, he doesn't love. If he justifies any abuse at all, he doesn't love. This is my experience.

November 26, 2001
12:13 pm
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Molly
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Don't confuse being a hostage with unconditional love. Sure he wants you to believe you should put up with what ever he dishes out, and he will work real hard to convince you of that. This time and the next time, and the next time, and with each episode, the boundry lines get more and more confusing, as his sales pitch gets more and more convincing, after all you accepted this and that why not this. Get the hell away from him, don't take his calls, don't communicate with him, run, and don't look back. Next time you may just end up a real victim, life is to short.

November 26, 2001
2:32 pm
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artist 2
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vivcav,

Are you there? Let us know you're read these posts...

November 28, 2001
10:09 pm
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vivcav
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TO All:
Thank You all so very much for your help. My instincts tell me exactly what you are all saying but like you have all suggested he has learned how to push my "manipulative, guilt" buttons. To think, I gave up a healthier relationship for this man. Perhaps I should Thank him for "scaring" me. As he was slapping and choking me he knocked off my rose colored glasses in the process and has helped me "see" the truth. The hard part comes with not falling for the "I love you"'s that following as well as telling me the things we all like to hear. Thank you all!!!

November 28, 2001
10:10 pm
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vivcav
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beauy,
Did you mean I should forgive him and get back with him? I am confused.
vivcav

November 28, 2001
10:22 pm
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vivcav
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artist 2,
You're right he can't take confrontation. He blames me for almost everything. How I wasn't there for him, how he just needs me , all he wanted was for me to give him his antabuse everyday. If I loved him I would be there for him. You know the guilt tactic full force. And I fall for it all the time. The problem is he doesn't see it as abuse and I waste my time trying to make him see that it is.

November 28, 2001
10:31 pm
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vivcav
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deshong,
You are so right on target. Has been doing this throughout the relationship
As I was trying to figure out what I wanted (boy did he paint a pretty picture for me) He was seeing other women. Oh I mean "friends". As he said he wasn't going to sit aroung and play tiddlewinks waiting for me to get it together. But I was always the one he "loved". Abuse also includes verbal right? I can't tell you how he calls me the foulest names(([email protected]#k#ng c#nt) when he gets upset and then says he is just a person who shares his feelings and emotions. It wears you down until you just don't have the strength to leave and you begin to buy into the self doubt. He says he is sorry but I am also to blame. Oh yeah he said he didn't have any choices because he loves me. "There are no choices when you love someone" is a line he like to use. whew!!! Give me strength....

November 28, 2001
10:36 pm
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vivcav
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Molly,
You are not kidding when you said he will work real hard to convince me. Its been months since this incident, I have told him over and over again to get lost, etc. but he comes on 110% stronger. It's almost like a game. He didn't get me so now he wants what he can't have and if he were to have ever gotten it he wouldn't want it anymore (it=me). I have notes all over the phone with a big NO on it.But I'll give in and answer it and boy do I always regret it ALWAYS!! Will I ever learn?

November 28, 2001
10:40 pm
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vivcav
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eve,
I think he thinks since he didn't leave any visible marks on me he didn't "beat me up". He honestly believes he didn't assault me. I just didn't show him the bruises I had. He also thinks since he was drunk it isn't the same and being aware of hitting me. He says if he wasn't drunk he would have never hit me because he would never hurt me. What a fool Iam.

November 28, 2001
10:43 pm
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vivcav
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lowest self esteem on earth,
I think I can honestly challenge you for this title. I must not have thought much of myself to buy into all things he has told me. We women want to be taken care of (in a healthy way of course) too. That's the line I bought how he would take care of me and life would be wonderful..

November 28, 2001
11:46 pm
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suzyblue
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Unconditional love is that which you have with your child or your mother should have had with you. Unconditional love should have no place amongst adults. You have to love yourself first and who you are with based on whether or not they are good for you. Do not accept inappropriate behavior. Tell him unconditional love is for children and that he needs to grow up on his own time and not yours.

November 29, 2001
12:34 pm
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Molly
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Do your self a favor and check those sites regarding the narcissist behavior. I got so much from the healthyplace.com page regarding the faq's. It demonstrates what it does to you, and what we let them do to us, its a cycle of insanity, where you will never win.

November 29, 2001
12:39 pm
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Molly
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Suzyblue, I have just gotten a really big lesson regarding that unconditional love thing with children, it is for the young children. Mine are adults now, and I had a really tough lesson over the last couple of years. I thought that unconditional love thing ment like your children--- from the womb with out consideration of their age. I had to put a stop to it, kept singing Janice Joplin take another piece of my heart. They took the last one over the holiday, they get no more, and this is really hard to not be angry, but to remain loving with my boundry lines. I keep telling my self that they are just kids, but they aren't they are adults now, and they must face the consequences of their actions. I swear, I never thought they could be so selfish selfcentered, or take me for granted the way they have, but perhaps that is ultimately my lesson for what they observed the men in my life do to me. Lessons lessons lessons.

November 29, 2001
3:58 pm
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artist 2
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HOORAY! I put my ex-boyfriend in JAIL for hitting me. I'm glad I did. Don't wait for the chance to do the same...

November 29, 2001
4:14 pm
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Ladeska
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Just been reading here and kinda curious about something.... can you explain exactly what he told you concerning this statement...

"That's the line I bought how he would take care of me and life would be wonderful.."

Just want to see what exactly was the "hook" for you...

November 29, 2001
9:25 pm
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vivcav
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Suzyblue,
You told me exactly what I needed clarified. Unconditional love is for children not adults. As I heard on Oprah many times, "a light bulb moment". I'll just have to remember this when my chid reaches adulthood (hopefully a better adjusted adult than my example).

November 29, 2001
9:27 pm
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vivcav
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Molly,
Thanks for the information I will definetly check out the site. Your so right the cycle of insanity... needs to be broken once and for all. Thanks for the encouragement and strength.

November 29, 2001
9:34 pm
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vivcav
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artist 2,
"He" tells me that is what set him off the fact that I threatened to call the cops. I overreacted according to him. It seems like you understad this kind of situation. am seriously thinking of a restraing order cause I can't seem to get through to him to leave me alone. I am sort of afraid though like it will push him over the edge and take it out on me and or my family. At 43 years of age you think he would be grown up by now. He recently called my parents to tell them I was pregnant with his child. How juvenile. This is what I mean about his behavior. Thanks for listening.

November 29, 2001
9:39 pm
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vivcav
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Ladeska,
He would tell me alot that no one loves me like he does,no one ever would accept my "baggage" like he has (I have a son now 12), I won't have to work so much, I only need to tell him what I want and he will give it to me. I have always been there for you when no one else was. I think you get the picture. What made it more difficult was that we had a intense sexual chemistry between us. We both were very comfortable with each other intimately speaking. Hope this answered your question.

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