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Concerned for a little girl
January 31, 2004
10:00 pm
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Tag020570
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I recently started dating a man with a 3 year old daughter. We have been seeing one another for about 2 1/2 months. Up until a couple of weeks ago, I thought he was the most wonderful father I had ever come in contact with. He is loving, caring, attentive and very giving to his daughter. She seems like your normal 3 year old. She does not seem shy or distant and is very outgoing. She visits her daddy every 1,3 and 5th weekend and has been since she was about 8 months old. The first time that I spent the night at his home when she was there was a bit confusing to me because the little girl woke up several times in the night screaming out for her daddy. I could not make out what she was saying but I did hear her so NO and STOP!!! I was alarmed by this and questioned her daddy. He says that it seems to be happening more and more and that he fears something may have happened at her mothers house. I left it at that and said that he should find out what's going on. Since I had thought he was such a great loving father I never gave it another thought.... Until I was at the house about a month later and he had his daughter that weekend. He and I were in the kitchen and the little girl was playing around being silly... She took her fingers and poked them on the outside of her throat a few times. When he asked her what she was doing she replied "I'm choking myself" He looked at me and then asked her "Who chokes you"? She replied with "You do daddy" he said " No daddy does not choke you, who chokes you" again she replied with the same answer and was laughing about it. Again I let it go because it made no real since to me. That same evening she was jumping on the couch and told her daddy that she "was going to tell me the secret" or a secret. I can't remember how she said it. He asked her what secret and then went on about his business like she never said anything. I walked over and sat down beside her. She cupped her hand around my ear and told me "Daddys not going to hurt me anymore" I was shocked, but was afraid to ask her anything since he was 10 feet away. She went on about her business like nothing had ever happened. I thought about what she had said to me all night long. I stayed that evening and once again she woke up several times screaming for her daddy. He would go comfort her and she was fine for about an hour and then it would happen again. Finally, about 2am he went to her room to comfort her again and fell asleep in there. I heard her atleast 4 or 5 more times during the time he was in her room. She would start screaming and then she would get quite. About 4am she decided to throw an almost uncotrollable fit because she wanted milk.. She was screaming and hitting and crying like I had never heard over a glass of milk.. Needless to say I liad in the next room awake all night wondering and guessing what she was screaming for. She said one time during one of these fits "No daddy and was very upset. I confronted him and he said that he was trying to put the covers over her and that she did not want them. It all seem so weird to me, I have two children of my own and have never experienced anything like this with either of them.. He talks alot about child sex offenders and how he can't understand how someone could do such a thing to there children. He says he does not know what he would do if he ever thought someone was hurting his daughter. I am so confused and wonder if I am being paranoid. She loves her daddy it is quite obvious and from what I have observed he is so good with her. I have seen him bathe her on several occasions and she does not seem shy or embarrased. She is a typical 3 year old having a blast in the bath and not worried about anyone seeing her undressed. If anyone has any advise to offer I would appreciate it. This is all that I can think about..

January 31, 2004
10:22 pm
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Zinnie
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What is the story with her Mom? Is there another man in her life?

I'm not accusing you or judging you - but, why would you not get up and go check on her when you heard her screaming and he was in her room? Go to see if there was something you could do?

Z.

January 31, 2004
10:29 pm
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To my knowledge her mother is single but to hear my boyfriend tell it she is a drug user and alcoholic and an awful mother. I find that hard to believe since she does have custody of the little girl. I questioned myself about why I did not go in the room, I guess maybe I thought I was over reacting or being paranoid. He says that he has her in couseling right now because he fears that something is going on at her mothers house. I would have believed everything he's said if she had not told me what she did. Since that night he and I have not seen each other when he has his daughter. It seems that he always has something to do now when she is with him. I don't know if he does not want me around her or if he is really busy. I want so badly to talk to her, just to see if she will talk to me about any of this..

January 31, 2004
10:45 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi Tag,

First and foremost - I'm glad you are concerned for this child.

You are talking to the world's biggest idiot here on... on believing somebody regarding this.

My cousin is a convicted pedophile, and my dealings with him are what brought me to this site.

I will tell you this much, when all of this started with him, being accused, and even through the trial, he kept saying "I'm sick that someone would think I would ever do anything to hurt a child, it's disgusting."

Well, little did I know - until sentencing and afterwards that he had been doing this for at least the last 40 years.

Sadly, we hear too many stories from people about their ex's - they are drug users, crazy, liars, whores, cheats, etc. Sure, some of them are, but for every one out there that is, there are probably one or two that are not. I guess the things to think about are: is the child well cared for, does she come over with clean clothes, is she healthy? If so, then how can a drug addict mother be doing all of this?

The big flag to me is the fact that he does not have time to see you now when he has this child.

If you really think there is something there - and generally why else would a three year old child say this - then I would turn him in. BUT, please know that this will mean the end of the relationship - even if he is innocent. I'm not saying that to deter you from reporting it, just telling you what will happen.

Please keep me posted. This is very disturbing, and again I give you credit for standing up.

January 31, 2004
11:03 pm
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In answer to your question.. Yes she is always well dressed, she is healthy, and loves her mommy. I hear her talk about her mommy and sometimes wants to go home early to be with here. My original plan here was to make myself more available when he had his daughter so that she and I could play together, maybe spend some time together. She obviously trust me to tell me a secret like that. I called him today and invited the two of them over for dinner so that his daughter could play with my son since they are the same age. He agreed and said that sounded like a great idea. I knew in my heart that something would come up. He called me back and said that his truck was still in the shop and that it would be late before it was finished. It makes me sick to think that he stays away because he fears that I may try and talk to her. I was afraid of destroying such a new relationship with what I thought was a great person over something that I suspected but did not have the proof I needed. I know in my heart that I will never be able to be happy with him if I always suspect something is wrong. My heart tells me to turn this in and be done with it. I was just hoping to have more to go on. What little info I have may not be enough for anyone to investigate this.

January 31, 2004
11:09 pm
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Zinnie
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What info you have is plenty to turn in. Do you know how to reach the mother? In this case, you may have to call her and talk with her.

I'm going to pull up the thread that I had called "Biggest Mistake of my Life" - it tells all that I went through there... when you pull it up, you can click on "view all posts" - please read through it and see if you see any similarities.

Feel free to ask me anything you need to, I have researched this until I'm blue in the face (my way of dealing with things), and I freely admit, I screwed up - big time... in lending this person support. But, I have found out by dealing with all of this, these people are really good at hiding what they are all about. Really good. If I can speak out and up and help someone else - you had better believe I will.

Another person you might want to talk to on this site is Boland, Ladeska and Silk - they will be of invaluable help to you regarding all of this.

Z.

January 31, 2004
11:13 pm
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Tag020570
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Thank you so much. How do I view this? I appreciate it so much. I will keep you posted and let you know if there are any similarities. Thanks again

TAG

January 31, 2004
11:26 pm
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Zinnie,

I have tried to find the thread that you sent. I would really love to read it. I think that it would be a great help to me in all of this. Thank you

January 31, 2004
11:40 pm
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Hi Tag,

I just pulled it back up for you...

Please read through, and if I can give you any help or support, I'm here to listen.

Bless you for looking out for this child.

Z.

February 1, 2004
1:40 am
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Go with your gut, if you think there's somethin going on, then somewhere there is something going on. It may not be this man you've been seeing, it my be something with the mother. You could alway call in an anonymous tip to Child Services, tell them exacly what you've said here, you have no physical evidence that it's the father, but the child's behavior scares you. As Zinnie said, it may mean the end of the relationship, and you may be wrong, hopefully for the little girl's sake, I hope you are. But I'd rather lose the relationship and be wrong, then be right and do nothing. You should be proud of the fact that you're willing to at least try to help this little girl.

February 1, 2004
10:30 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi Tag,

Just checking on you.

Hi 45s - how are you doing?

Z.

February 2, 2004
1:11 pm
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Hi Tag,,,

I do agree that something is going on with this child. I also agree that for her, you should contact social services or whatever agency in your area to try and help her. What you described sounds very odd. If I were you, I'd do whatever it took to help this little girl. Something just isn't right, and she can't help herself. Please keep us posted on the situation. Many of us were molested as children, so we'd like to know what happens.

You sound like a concerned, caring person. W.

February 2, 2004
2:28 pm
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Hi Tag... Glad you came here with this concern. I have ALOT to say to you about this and will when I get back from a few errands here. Let me first just say - this man is a very dangerous man and this is no doubt in my mind that he is abusing this child. No doubt from what I see here. And he should be turned into the authorities immediately and that little girl needs to be removed ASAP and put under the care of those who can treat her and know how to talk to her and question her through many different kinds of therapy that work with children. But I'll come back a little later today and talk to you more in depth about all this. This creep makes me sick to my stomach. I was a victim of this crime by someone alot like him, so I know exactly what he smells like and how "good and nice and loving and respected" he can "appear". They are really quite good at that. I'm going to tell you ahead of time here that I am a bit of a raging bull concerning assholes like this so don't expect me to be anything but direct with you. I won't pretty it up for you at all. Just going to give it to you straight up and pray that you do the right thing with the information.

February 2, 2004
5:25 pm
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Tag020570
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Thank you all so much for your thoughts on this situation.

Zinnie,
I have read about half of what you sent me but have not finished it yet. Thank you for your concern.

Ladeska,
It sounds to me like you have a lot to say about this situation as well and I would greatly appreciate any input you could give me. Thank you all so much for your honesty.

tag

February 2, 2004
6:16 pm
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Hi Tag... Thank you for the welcome here and I think by you reading that thread of Zinnie's you'll see alot of things.

There are many things wrong with his behavior here and you have every reason to be alarmed and suspicion something. I would lay hard money on it.

For one, you need to study up on psychopaths and sexual predators, especially of the incest flavor. They are pure animals but slick ones. They know their craft and they do it well. With "finesse" as they say.

They love nothing more than as to be arrogant enough to molest her - with you in the next room. For one - it shows the little girl that it must be somewhat okay and Dad is all-powerful here because this other person seems to be okay with it, too. Or so she might think in a child's mind......

You should have walked in there when you heard all this. Not scolding you but next time something like this is going on - be very bold and walk right in and go - what's going on in here??? Don't cower, play dead and just assume anything. They love it when you do that. They get right off on someone playing the little game of "assume and believe the best" with them. Twisted? Oh yeah.

Her saying what she did about the choking, his response and her comment about the secret later to you - Um, oh yes, you have enough to report here along with the other things you've said here. That would have made my ears fly straight up. With my background, I think I would have thrown her in the car right then and took her to the police.

And NOW, he is keeping the two of you away from each other and is blaming her mother and/or new boyfriend or whatever and acting like he's such a big guy on campus against child abuse. Well........most of the really good pedophiles make it their point to do this. Usually, any time you find a really successful psychopath and predator - they are the VERY ones that preach against whatever it is - they are doing.

That way - you'd just never think to look in their direction because they soooo hate all that, right??? It just couldn't be them!!! And blaming the mother and her side of people with what he is probably doing is also stereotypical of a man who is molesting his daughter and sees her part time like this.

The thing is - it's hard to prove and that's why predators pick little children. However.....there are ways..... and the first thing you need to do is write down everything you know, times, dates, absolutely everything you can remember. Get it all down.

Then, if possible, you need to find out who the mother is and go to her with this information. What the mother needs to do is - have her immediately checked out after she has been with him for the weekend. Give him no head's up at all. But take her directly to the doctor's office and have her privates examined and swabbed for DNA and sperm and just checked in general for traces of abuse there. The thing is - it may be oral copulation that he is forcing her to do. He might not be sexually abusing her otherwise. As if - this isn't bad enough! Abuse is abuse. But they will check everything and she needs to be seen by a child psychologist that is gifted and trained in working with a child who's been sexually abused.

That is all somewhat out of your hands after you tell the mother and also go the to the police with it. I'd make sure that after you tell the mother, if you can - that you also give the information to the District Atty., the police, the sheriff's office and the child's protective services. Also, if you will tell me what state you are in, I'll give you other numbers to call also that won't dilly dally around like some local police might.

You have to hit everyone at once with this information so no one can shut you down or not do anything. Everyone must get this information at once.

What you told me here - gave me chills. I'd know these signs a mile off. Ever read any of Ann Rule's books about psychopaths and how good they are? you should. Go pick up one of her paperback true stories. She's a brilliant investigator and writer.

The thing is...........what he is brainwashing this child with - is probably horrendous and very, very confusing to a child. He could be telling her any number of sick things. And, she's all confused about this being daddy - doing this. Little girls want to love their Daddies. It all gets very confusing for a little one.

Thank you for seeing and not acting like you don't. I was one of those children that people turned their back on. Please follow up here. You may never know what you could be responsible for averting here. Trust me - she needs you. You may be the only one that ever tries to do something on her behalf.

February 2, 2004
6:19 pm
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Um, isn't it a little quick for you to be getting introduced to the kids here? I mean, you've known this guy for under three months and already you're sleeping over while he has visitation? That's totally irresponsible of both of you, don't you think? Suppose it doesn't work out between the two of you... now he has introduced another person into his daughter's life who she can get close to and lose?

The possibilities with child abuse aside (and I'll leave those to the experts on this board), warning bells should be going off in your head that he is so eager to allow you into his child's life on such a quick timeline.

February 2, 2004
6:39 pm
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Zinnie
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Ginger,

Interesting point. In thinking back, I had been dating my first husband about nine months before I met his kids, but they lived in another country. However, when they did come down to visit, I did not sleep over - although I did meet them, but we were seeing each other exclusively at that point.

When we decided to marry, we went to Montreal so I could meet the children, and their Mom.

Pondering now what impact that had on the kids?

Z.

February 2, 2004
10:05 pm
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I appreciate all of your thoughts and concern in this. I do completely agree that it was a bit early in the realtionship to be spending the night at his house when he had his daughter. The first couple of times I stayed I made sure that I was gone before she ever woke up in the morning but unfortunately the last time I was there and she did wake up fairly early and noticed my being there. I think that I was as uncomfortable as she was and I felt horrible. I read everything that you have written and have a few more questions. I wonder would she love being with him so much if he were abusing her? I only ask because they seem to have such the perfect relationship and I would have believed so up until she said what she did. He is so particular that he even makes sure that she eats the proper foods and goes so out of his way to see that she is happy and taken care of. He did tell me that she sees a counselor 2 times a month. I asked him if her mother knew about this and he said absolutely not. He says that he is trying to see if his daughter will say something to the counselor that will stand up in court and prove that the mother is unfit. He wants full custody of the little girl. Why would a father who is abusing his daughter spend the time and money to take her to a counselor. I would think he would be afraid that she may say something about him. He says that she tells the counselor that "Daddys good and Mommys bad" Is this another way of brainwashing a child? I just dont know. I question myself about this whole situation. I know what my gut instinct tell me. If she screams out in the night he jumps to see what it wrong. She does not in any way seem shy ir timid and she is so friendly.

February 2, 2004
10:09 pm
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Zinnie
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Hard call - did you read my thread? Did you find anything there that stands out to you?

Something here is just not right, and the glaring thing is that now he does not want you to be around her.

They will spend the time and money on these children because like stated above, if they do all of this, why would anyone look at them as being the abusers?

Another question, and this is hard. Is he overly interested in your children?

Z.

February 2, 2004
10:22 pm
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Tag020570
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Not at all. He has only met my children one time. I do not want my children around him at all right now. I have invited him over for dinner a few times but only when he has his daughter and of course he always accepts but then has a reason why he can't come over. When he and I first started seeing each other we would meet for dinner, go for ice cream, go to the mall together always with the little girl. It has only been the last 3 weeks that I have not seen her. He wanted my sone and his daughter to play together so much since they are the same age but I tried very hard to stay away from that whole situation. Now that I would like for him to bring her around so that they can play he is always busy or she is not feeling well. It may all be coincidence but I have seen a huge difference in his behavior towards me even. He has pushed me away alot. He wanted me to meet his parents on Christmas and invited me to their house. He use to call several times a day now usually only once. Where we use to see each other every weekend has now changed to every other weekend. He has put a lot of distance between us since that last time I saw his daughter. I wanted more proof. If I could even get her mothers full name or something. Here is something that he told me when we first met that may be intersting. He told me that when he was 2 years old his real parents gave him up for adoption. He says that becasue of that he has a fear of being rejected by anyone. I thought maybe that's why he was pushing me away...

February 2, 2004
11:12 pm
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For one thing Tag...I know you want to be really sure here that you are not jumping to the wrong conclusion. Very admirable of you, smart and wise. Things jump out at me here though, everytime you write I see something else that is not in his favor.

For one thing, let me answer your question - would it "seem" that they are close? Would he "appear" to be such a loving and devoted father and still be doing the unspeakable? Is this possible. Absolutely YES, it could happen and it does happen - far more than you know.

A pedophile, man that incests his daughter goes to GREAT pains to not only fool, confuse, and manipulate you and everyone else watching, but goes to great pains, greater even - to appear "good" to himself. That's the greatest con of all. And with his daughter - he has to constantly be hitting her with the "goodness" of Daddy in order to keep her confused and brainwashed as well. They do this very, very well. Is quite the art to them, they eat, sleep and breathe how to do it better, to make the polish more shiny, more misleading, more "perfect".

You will rarely see a good pedophile or psychopath who has anything but maybe one thread that's loose and you won't find that - unless you're trained what to look for and keep looking, knowing what to look for next.

They are experts at the game and pride themselves in it. Gives them great satisfaction. And above all else they will not and I do mean Will NOT allow themselves to be displeasing to "them". Just not going to happen. They will not look in the mirror and see the monster hiding behind the facade. They will make the facade impeccable and constantly straighten the image, polish it more, paint it with more gloss until it's just the best copy of the original anyone could ever find.

They are........the best counterfeit artists and they leave a wake of destruction, death, maiming and mayhem behind them that would actually make you vomit on sight of it if you could see it in full view all at once. Study up on Ted Bundy sometimes and see for yourself "how good" they can be. Ann Rule herself, the author and criminal profiler that I told you about - used to work side by side on an abuse hotline with Ted Bundy for over a year and she didn't know what he was doing. There he was - on a hotline for crying outloud. Reaching out to people, counseling them and yet........how many young girls did he butcher with absolutely NO remorse whatsoever. THAT is a psychopath and that is a damned good one. Just remember the best ones - never get caught, they just get better at the game.

The amateurs are the ones you find in prison. But even in prison, as Dr. Robert Hare points out in his book "Without Conscience" - they go to great pains to fool the best psychiatrists in the field and they do. They walk every day. Pass the tests with flying colors and fool the masters. They do whatever it takes and then some to convince anyone that they are "reformed". Um yeah, like you could teach a shark to be a goldfish. I still wait for anyone to show me case after case of pedophiles, rapists and psychopaths who have been reformed or "rehabilitated" and upon closer examination, I know exactly what I'll find. That they've conned someone once again and it's just a matter of time, once free, that they will do it again - only a little better this time because they studied up on it in prison by comparing notes with other inmates on how to beat the system and how to lure their prey easier.

We have this silly little notion that we can change them. Last time I looked at what goes on in prison and with their therapy - that is freaking laughable. Our need to give some people mercy just really annoys the complete hell out of me. There comes a time in human beings and God did give us enough brain power to figure out when that point has happened - that a person's conscience is just gone. For whatever reason - it's not there anymore. The only thing that's operating is the need to destroy for the sake of destroying and that's it. They are a hollow, void feeding machine.

And this man tells you that he is taking her to a counselor? Hm,m,m....Well so he says but what real proof do you have of that? And if so, does he have that counselor in his back pocket somehow. Stranger things have happened. But my hunch is - he's not taking her to any counselor at all. Mommie is bad is she? Says who? Him again? Hm,m,m...

And that little girl, being a little girl that is as young as she is - might not go the way of being withdrawn and shy. Some kids don't do all that. Some go the way of being exhibitionists, they act out their pain, are very flamboyant in many ways that when very young are not that detectable as being "wrong" or "strange" especially if he keeps her away from anyone who has a clue or suspicions something like you're obviously doing.

Perpetrators can make their sexual crimes seem like "play" or something you're just doing for Daddy because Daddy loves you. They bribe them, they reward them right afterwards with some treat and confuse the hell right out of them. They don't know right from wrong or what's up and what's down. But you do see signs of it......like you did. You'd be real surprised what these people will tell the child and how easy it is to manipulate them. I knew a woman one time that I was in a weekend "Inner Child Workshop" with and it had evidently been coming out in her therapy just before that - that she just remembered in her 20's that she had been engaging in sex with both her parents and the dog for most of her life. She would go home during her 20's and spend the weekend and have no memory of what happened during that weekend stay. This is what made her stop and go - what's wrong with me???

And OH what a lovely little family they appeared to be! Very successful, both parents, she did well in college and was quite the "performer" in all she did. You see, some abuse victims go the way of being a very good actress or actor and they are very, very good at it. Taught by the best. They learn to mask their pain, to stuff their fragmented parts of themselves and to run the course better than most people who have no handicaps at all. Their parents drive them to excel so that - anyone looking (like you) could not point one finger because they are driven to be excellent at all they do. Then the parent or parents who are abusing can sit back and say - well, I guess we didn't damage you that much and no one can say we did because Look at YOU! You've got a good education, making straight A's, getting a good job, you look perfect! So what can you accuse us of??? All the while, behind the mask these victims can be and usually are falling apart at the seams but hide it very, very well. They have hidden lives. And because of the shame that immediately attaches itself to the very soul of a victim the minute that anything happens to them at whatever age - they will protect this wounding at all costs because they feel like - it's all their fault and they are intensely afraid of losing their parent's love because they have been soooo good and clever at - interlacing the abuse with kudos and what they call love. The child is so eager for love that they will accept the poisoned brew "as love" every time. Like anything else is available???

They know no different. That's their life as they know it. So after many years of this kind of manipulation, brainwashing and providing them with some simblance of love or what they've come to accept as love - they will often defend their abusers with a fury. They'd rather cut their own arm off as to let them take the fall for anything. And thus.........the predator walks free once again, leaving broken lives and people in their wake and feeling absolutely nothing but satisfied that they got their own belly full of what they wanted out of the whole thing.

Sounds horrible, doesn't it? It is. And it's what millions of people on this earth turn away from in every country, in every race, in every religion, in every group regardless of how high and mighty they might sound or profess. Most often the very ones that profess the most to be the rigorously going after people like this and against child abuse are the very ones - doing it the worst.

You can maybe get someone you might know who works in law enforcement to run his tags for you. Then you can go downtown and look into city records and see if there is anything on record that is a divorce filing, separation, anything where you might find her name and address. But he's definitely onto you. NO doubt about that one. And if this is what he's about - he won't necessarily be blatant about wanting to be around your kids either. We always expect people like this to look and act like monsters. The real monsters, the worst ones - act incredibly nice and impeccably honorable and know all the things to say to throw you off their scent. They study all this like you study what's good for you to eat, or how to buy a car, or what to do at your job. They study how to deceive.

And........they study "you". They find out what pulls your heart strings, what motivates you, what you hate, what you love, what is important to you and they mimick it back to you. They are excellent chameleons and live for - the game.

Something you might want to look at that I wrote is - well, actually two threads...one is called - How You Become Prey to a Charmer/Abuser and a Relationship Checklist. You'll have to go back I think to 1.5 years on this forum to find it but just scroll back and back and you'll see both of them. The Charmer/Abuser one is not as far back as the other one is, but this info might help you.

He was given up for adoption at 2, huh? Hm,m,m...big warning sign here. This guy may have tremendous problems that you know nothing about. He could have been placed with people that abused him very badly or his home until 2 with his real parents could have been ghastly. He could very well suffer with mental problems that are very severe and quite hidden. If he sustained abuse himself and is now an abuser, this little girl is nothing more than something for him to release his frustrations out on from his own abuse. They do this. They like to put under their control and power a helpless innocent child, like they were at one time and thus "be the controller" with all the power to hurt and punish. And if that child is their own - even better because they constantly punish the child that they once were for "being bad". It's a temporary fix for their own sick and twisted pain, rage and need to hurt someone because they hurt. He needs her for this and he won't let her go very easy at all. He feeds himself lies that say - he loves her, "too" during all this so - it's okay. At least he provides for her, gives her things and is a most excellent father in all other respects so in his mind - he justifies it all. He maybe does things for her that were never done for him growing up so - well, it's okay.....that all makes up for the abuse and with the manipulation he does with her and her being an extroverted child by nature - all seems fine enough. The cover is good, and he gets off scott-free, what's not to love about him? He's got all angles covered and is very happy with how well he's done it all. He.........is now............the one in control, absolute control.

Again, I may be totally wrong here. I'm just painting you a picture of "what if" and what if based on - the information you've already given me here and I have to tell you - he doesn't smell very good to me. In fact, he smells very foul.

February 2, 2004
11:29 pm
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Zinnie
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To me again, it is just strange that only now, after this incident with his daughter that now he does not want you around much.

Again, I would really wonder about it.

Keep him away from your children. First and foremost. Do you know what his ex-wife's name is? You might check divorce records.

Sorry - this is just hitting too close to what I just got done dealing with.

Z.

February 2, 2004
11:52 pm
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Tag020570
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Unfortunately they were never married. He has never been married and this is his only child. I want to thank you all so much for listening to me. Just talking to you has made me think about things that have happened that I would have never given much thought to before now. New Years Eve I went out with him and 3 of his very best friends along with their wives. I remember they asked me if I had met his parents yet and when I said no one of the wives laughed and told me to do my best to get out of that one if I could. I asked them why and they told me that she was very controlling and compared her to Mommy Dearest.. I'm not sure what way they meant it. They also asked me if he had started stalking me yet, I thought that was strange but then again everyone was drinking and laughing about it so I wrote it off like it was no big deal. I did ask him about it later and he said they were just having fun with me. Afterall why would they say something negative about their bestfriend. Right? You would think anyway. I am going to try to get together with him this week sometime or weekend and pick his brain a little if I can. I want to see if he will talk to me about anything. Just something. If anything I can try to find out her mothers name or a phone number. You know I remember the first time I ever met his daughter I went to the house to watch movies, he put her to bed about 9pm but was in there for almost an hour. I thought to myself how could it take an hour to put a child to sleep. While a stranger was in his living room. They were very quiet and he said that they were reading books. He came out of her room once and went to the bathroom to get some tissue. I asked him what happened when he finally made it back into the living room. He said they were playing around and he accidently hit her nose and it started bleeding. I thought how weird since he had company in the living room that he would be in her bedroom playing with her instead of getting her to sleep like he said he was. The more I think the more I remember..

February 3, 2004
12:21 am
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Zinnie
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Tag,

RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN...

READ THE THREAD I WAS TELLING YOU ABOUT, THIS IS TOO FAMILIAR!

Yes, I'm "yelling" above. OMG, OMG, OMG!

My first husband was the Father of two daughters. They were the apple of their Daddy's eye. But, after he and his first wife divorced, before he and I married - he had a licensed Nanny for when he had his kids. O.K., yes, he had the money, and we are dealing with five children vs. one, and one had special needs, actually he had a nurse who would come by to handle some of Eli's special care. But, the Nanny saw to the girls bathing, and I always figured it was because he was a little shy around the girls. Nothing wrong with that - my own Father would run at the mention of my sister or I needing underwear!

But, I look at my son-in-law who is raising his daughter by himself now, my daughter was killed last year - sorry... does not take that long to get her to bed, and she is three. I was there when he put her to bed, and he would tell her "fifteen minutes baby, do you want a story? If so, we need to go to bed now"

I'm sorry - but please read up on my thread "Biggest Mistake of my Life" - the stories, the justifications, the "stalking" - there is something there.

Please keep in touch.

Love,

Zinnie

February 3, 2004
1:28 am
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Ladeska
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Oh dear, Tag........all doubt, if there was any, was just removed from me. This man is highly dangerous. Went to get tissue huh? Hm,m,m....bet it wasn't for a bloody nose either. God this is making me ill here...

And his friends? Well, they tried to tell you. You shouldn't have blown them off. I'm so sure - they are telling you the truth. And stalking - could be a real deal here. I'd just get her tag info and have someone run it for you and don't even try getting into the ring with him again. He's onto you now. Don't go there. But if you can, try to help her. Geez, this is scary. And the sick thing is - they get off on you being right there while they are doing whatever. It's a thrill for them that they are doing something this brazen and right under someone's nose. My father was like that and he was one charming and abusive son-of-a-bitch. Extremely cruel and calculating and could abuse me one minute, raping me and then go out into the beauty shop my mother had on the back of the house (this is like ten minutes later mind you) and sit down, cross his legs, light up a cigarette and just talk their ears off, paying them compliments, acting interested in all the details of their lives, give them advice about their marriage, whatever. Could turn it on and turn it right off. Take a good long look at what you're seeing here and never forget it.

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