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COMMUNICATION ROLE PLAYING
September 8, 2003
5:49 pm
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Ladeska
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Tommorrow....how about we reverse things...meaning that - I will be "you" and you can be your mother. That way you can say all the things that you know she would say. So you can hit me with your best shot. Create a scenario that is typical and I'll just portray you. How's that?

September 8, 2003
6:07 pm
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Ladeska
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Btw......I have a great book to suggest here...

Keep Your Brain Alive

I highly recommend this book.

September 8, 2003
6:25 pm
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Molly
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Great job, great idea, great process.
Keep going, a new thing, and despite the glitches with the computer, and the paranoia, its working. xxoo

September 8, 2003
6:35 pm
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Ladeska
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Hey Paranoia is great! Don't knock it! Is that "really you" Molly?

September 8, 2003
10:33 pm
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Ladeska
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It is hard to do what you did today TS... It sounds easy and alot of people can just mouth stuff off like no tom., even if they are hurt and stuffing inside. They can tell the world ALL about it and keep going until you can't shut them up.

But not so sure that being able to "go off" is any better than what is going on with you guys... They are at opposite ends of the see saw but problems abound either way.

It's that "balance" thing that has to be refined...

It's hard to get the feelings intertwined with the words and then to get it straight in your head what your rights as a human being are. That's all rather complicated. And it's especially so for people who have been verbally and emotionally abused, which is true of both of you for many, many years.

These bullies in both you and Firefly's lives are actually the most frightened people of all... Interesting, huh? And they have successfully "transferred" all that fear onto you to bear. Not far, is it?

Well, it's time to unload that 40 lb. backpack. Takes ALOT of energy wagging that thing around all the time. No wonder you guys have little energy to devote to things that are "about you and Pro-you", huh?

Narcissistic people are like that though. They still the life right out of anyone that is handy. Little vampires always sucking and drawing the energy from other people back to themselves because they don't produce any inside themselves. They are constantly in a state of "dying" and living in the shadows of choices "they have made" and are suffering the consequences of that daily and nightly. But as all vampires do - they would like to transfer all the guilt, all the fear and all the darkness onto YOU because it satisfies them somehow to see you wearing their misery. I just can't think of a more loving thing to do to your child, can you? Just almost gives me goose pimples!!

The thing is - when you are a child....you aren't able to appropriately choose who you give your energy to. These people control you, they hover over every important aspect of your life and cut you off at every pass. The best you can do is maintain and try to lessen the pain. It's called - survival.

But now....those days have passed and even though they are in your life in some fashion...you have a new freedom now... Things are not like they were, many elements have changed and the one most important that is changing is - the inside of "you".

Growing up emotionally as an adult isn't an easy task, but it can most definitely - be done. And because you are an adult and have that adult brainpower, when you do "get things" when they do "click" you can make progress at the speed of light. You don't have to spend the years that this kind of normal growth would take as a child. So just want to highlight the positive for you instead of the negative here. You have alot of advantages.

And the most valuable advantage is "your will" set to the task at hand here. You both want to grow, you want to accept the challenge and you sink your teeth right into it and I couldn't ask for two better students. In fact, I won't work with anyone who doesn't do this.

They aren't where they need to be and I don't need to be in their life. I would only frustrate and complicate things if I pushed unnecessarily. You can't force this kind of growth. People are either "there" and ready for it or they aren't.

I learned a long time ago the wisdom in the saying...."When a student is ready to learn, a teacher will appear." Kind of a simplistic rule of nature like anything else.

So, yes, tom. it's Firefly's turn since you TS have to go to work. We'll see you later on tom. night. Looking forward to it, Firefly!

September 8, 2003
11:15 pm
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Ladeska
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I just wanted to add some quick notes here for those just reading here and observing - giving a quick definition of Verbal and Emotional Abuse...

VERBAL ABUSE

Verbal abuse is the use of words to attack, hurt or injure someone, or to gain power and control over them, or to persuade someone to believe something that is untrue and harmful.

Withholding Information and not listening empathetically prevents the proper level of intimacy in the relationship from developing.

Countering contradicts what the other person says; the abuser refuses to accept that the victim's point of view may be valid.

Discounting the victim's feelings of hurt at the abuse implies that there is something wrong with the victim if he feels that way.

Disguising verbal abuse as a joke again invalidates the victim's perceptions.

Blocking and diverting allows the abuser to avoid discussing things that the victim believes are important.

Accusing and blaming the victim unfairly can make the victim believe that she has caused the abuse.

Trivializing the victim's thoughts, ideas and achievements can make the victim feel worthless.

Undermining of the victim by the abuser erodes the patient's self confidence.

Every threat made by the abuser is a form of control. The abuser plays on the victim's deepest fears.

Forgetting promises, agreements or previous discussions prevents the victim from talking to the abuser about his behaviour.

Denial is a stronger form of forgetting: the abuser denies that any abuse has ever taken place, invalidating the victim's reality and perceptions.

Abusive Anger allows the abuser to release tension and feel power over his victim but increases the victim's anxiety and feelings of failure.

***** Adapted from The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans

**********************************

EMOTIONAL ABUSE

Emotional abuse has much in common with verbal abuse in that it is an attempt to hurt, attack or control the victim. The emotional abuser often uses verbal abuse to hurt the victim, but can use other means as well. Some of these are described below.

Domination by the abuser, who sets up the environment so that she is always in control.

Intimidation which plays on the victim's guilt, fear, compassion and values to get him to behave in ways that are contrary to his wishes and desires.

Abusive expectations in which unreasonable demands are placed upon the victim. No matter how much he gives it is never enough. The victim is made to feel guilty because he never fulfils the abuser's needs perfectly.

Unpredictable responses which are drastic mood changes or sudden emotional outbursts.

***** Adapted from Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward and Donna Frazier

September 8, 2003
11:21 pm
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Molly
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Why did I sound to mello ???? Yea its me you old witch. xxoo

September 9, 2003
12:46 am
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gingerleigh
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LOL!!! God I love you guys.

September 9, 2003
8:07 am
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Anonymous
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woke up at 2am .. logged on and found the above information

wow - i didnt know all 'that' was considered verbal abuse. it was really hard to read becuz it was as if someone said, this is what happened to you kid and spelled it all out for me. Geez.

ive never been physically abused so i dont know for sure, but i want to mention that i think emotional/verbal abuse hurts just as bad. i remember when i was a teenager ...and beginning to realize that something was wrong (no i didnt even know i had been in abuse really until college) i just remember feeling battered inside. or battered in general. and i didnt understand it becuz i was never physically abused. and i didnt know there was such a thing as emotional abuse. i thot there was something wrong with the way 'i' felt.

also .. i want to know what its called when someone lets the abuse happen. they arent the abuser, but they dont protect you either. and how about going one step further .. not only do they not protect you, but they are emotionally absent... would that be emotional neglect? just wondering... this is how my mother was. she didnt abuse (emotionally) but she let it happen. she let the other abuse happen too.

i went back to bed after reading this .. broke down again - cried hard for a few minutes and said, yelled in my mind - WHY didnt you protect me????was feeling like i was saturday night when we talked ladeska. i pushed the feelings back inside tho - i had to.

September 9, 2003
10:56 am
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mj
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Hi aLL 🙂

This is really great!
TOOSCARED...I am so proud of you for having Courage....courage to change 🙂

My stepmom was the emotionally abuser in my life. I have alot of anger still towards her. She is just plain, wicked. I can't imagine what the draw is for my dad...but that is probably why he has nothing to do with me. Yes, I agree, it is time for all of us to let go of our past demons and reclaim our power to become our authentic self.

Hugs to all of you.

September 9, 2003
11:12 am
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mj
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Firefly, I hope you are feeling like facing this day today. Sorry for your pain. I can emphathize with wanting to stuff it back in just to survive. I do this regularly and would love to role play too with Ladeska. I think that honesty would help me. I hate it when I hide from the pain and it keeps rearing its ugly head....

Be Gone with the Pain. I want to LIVE
with Serenity and Hope.

September 9, 2003
11:39 am
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Ladeska
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Hey Molls! Old Witch you say??? Geez, I try to keep that broom tucked in under my dress but - whoopsie!

Okay Firefly....I'm ready when you are. How's about we go over to a new thread...Communication Role Playing Part II? This is one is getting too long.

What do you call your mother? Damn girl, you shouldn't ask ME that one? I got a few names..... Okay, okay be nice Ladeska...... grumble, growl, hiss, spit...

Alrighty then! Seriously what do you call her? An accomplice. Won't get too wordy on that one because - that says it like it is. She was a co-equal partner. She agreed with the abuse by her inaction and then she abused you herself which was - willful action. And neglect - is willful by the way.

If she didn't agree - she wouldn't have allowed it and she wouldn't have abused you also. You try and squint and see a difference here between her and your father - when in all reality - they are one and the same. One just wears pin stripes and the other one wears flowery print. They have a different mode of doing what they do, but what comes out in the end as a result - is the same thing. You don't stay as long as she does in something like this and not have a payoff for it either. Like I've told you many times, people make illicit deals in their lives. They sacrifice their own children even to make their life somehow more comfortable, more prestigious, more wealthy, to not offend their lover, or they do it simply because they are cowardly and lazy. Actually these two things may sound minor in nature, but they are two of the most deadly sins on earth. Being cowardly and lazy is something you "set your will to" just like you set your will to anything else. It's not just a "condition".

All in all.....if you can add two plus two and do other functions in life, then there is no excuse for that person allowing horrible abuse on a daily basis being done to their own flesh and blood. If they were an imbecile "maybe".... But we both know - your mother is far from being that, right? Also when they allow it to be done to themselves - they actually look at you like - and so if I wasn't worth saving, why should you be? If I can take it, so can you, so suck it UP, girl! I know.......you've seen this "attitude" flying with your mother... I got the same crap from mine... And after awhile it's like NO, no more sympathy or me cutting you a break here. None of that, no more. You've stood by here and you've allowed this, plain, pure and simple, AND you've participated in it as well. Weaker sex? Um, no. If I as a weak and brutalized little girl can muster the strength I've had to muster and can take a stand, then - "what's your excuse?"

We have to get past the illusions, the fantasies and the denial to see what the actions and the inactions really say about the people involved.

Okay.......going to the other thread now.

And sure, MJ, we can do this, too. Great! Got another taker. Way cool!

September 9, 2003
7:55 pm
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tooscared
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Thanks for your encouragement MJ. I am not sure that I would call it courage what I did on here. Part of me doesn't like to seem like a child in how I respond to things, but then when I am being honest that is kind of where some of emotions seem to be stuck at.

I think you would do great with the role playing. It helps to really trust the person that you are doing it with because they could really shoot a person down emotionally if they wanted to because you become very vulnerable.

It seems a little easier when the other person can give you a scenario that is very realistic. It really helped that Ladeska knew some of my fears and problems.

September 9, 2003
9:25 pm
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mj
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Hi Ladeska....are you worn out from all the role play?

September 9, 2003
9:40 pm
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Ladeska
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I'm a little tired mentally, yea. But it's good work, ya know? Productive and all that. I don't mind. As long as someone is willing to work "with me" like these two always do - hey, I'll stay in the ring as long as they do! No problem. Give this old woman a workout! That's just fine with me.

So I hear some winding up coming from you over there....you're thinking about doing this yourself, huh? Okay...just let me know when you're ready.

It's alot more fun to do in real life and I can make you laugh in the middle of it all, too. I love playing these parts and sometimes do it a little "too well" in person. Kinda spooks people out I think.

But that's good though...they need to feel like - they are there as much as possible. I remember years ago when I went through on of these things at a "Relationship Retreat" for a weekend and I tell you what? I was RUNG OUT when it was over. We did tons of role playing and it was intensely brutal. Good though. I learned some thing there I have never forgotten.

And it wasn't just a romantic type relationship deal either. Was relationships in general. Could be anyone, friend, parent, sister, lover, coworker, etc. Just anyone you had had a problem with or are having a problem with. Preferably the really deep ones that hurt real bad. Those were the ones we worked out.

The exercise we used first of all to get us all "in the mood" was really odd to most of us. Was quite uncomfortable, too. We had to get in a group, just stand up together and then put our hands behind our back and then when they rang the bell, we would walk up to one person and stay there until the bell rang again and you had to look them in the eye, but you could not touch them in any way or talk. Then when the bell rang, you went up to another person and did the same thing. Let me tell you, doing that to strangers is hard.

But at the end, we had to write down our impressions about all these people. They had name tags on so we knew who they were and we had to write down what we picked up from them. What kind of vibes did we pick up? Was real, real interesting. I think more than anything it just brought our awareness level up to where it needed to be.

September 9, 2003
10:21 pm
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mj
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Sounds way cool. I am up for trying it but maybe on a weekend when I can get all emotional and have time to recharge my battery. I would have you be my father. That is my biggest hurt.

Hugs Ladeska. I am so glad that you are here for us all especially me. Is that narcistic 😉

September 9, 2003
11:12 pm
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Ladeska
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No MJ. That's just people needing people. (smile) Okay, a weekend thing it is!!

September 10, 2003
9:59 am
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tooscared
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You will do great MJ in role playing. I will have SFB's pom poms handy to cheer you on. I agree with Ladeska that we all have that need to be with other people who care about us. Hopefully you won't be as anxious about it as I was that day.

September 14, 2003
10:35 am
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mj
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Hi Ladeska!!!
Let me know when you want to do the role playing with me!
I am excited to do it!
Hugs

September 17, 2003
6:42 pm
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Anam Cara
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Ladeska
I am up for it also - would you role play my wife.

Be warned this old sod may fall in love with you!

September 17, 2003
7:06 pm
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Ladeska
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Oh do go on, Anam!!! Of course I'll role play with ya!

September 18, 2003
1:47 am
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Anam Cara
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OK - would you start. when you have time.
Anam

September 18, 2003
5:37 pm
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Anam Cara
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Ladeska

Due to my acceptance of my situation - I feel it is not worth communication role play with my wife.

The game is lost - I am beginning to feel some strength coming back.

LOL. Anam

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