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Codependents support group 2
September 21, 1999
3:02 pm
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askme
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im not .. It hurts lots. But i also am aware i can take care of myself. Im a good person and seeing the light. Dont matter about who hes seeing here. Its a no fault state. Hes not brought her into house and im not turning the kids against him. They say its ok for him seeing her since we dont get along. I let them develop there own opinion. I guess i shouldnt have showed them the picture but my oldest came in while i was looking at it and asked who that was. In fact i told the kids your dad loves you and will always be your dad. I hope he will have to leave will do him good. Im not so sure he dont have second regrets but im not turning back . Yeah going to group and saw therapist one day this week. Going again next week . Im glad your sending back to reality but i dont want to think of him. I want to go on with life. Ill talk to therapist about what i told you see what she thinks. HMM so you think im denying my feelings again. Maybe for bit a wall but you know could be i just dont wont the abuse no more that high after you make the decision. Take care tears and keep me in line and not denial i respect your opinion and any others.

September 21, 1999
3:08 pm
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Honey, we all deal with crisis differently. I am not judging, as long as you get your precious life and that of your children out of that terrible situation. Whatever it takes, just make sure you get yourself some support askme. Blessings, god be with you.

September 21, 1999
7:06 pm
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askme
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Tears your right . Im little down tonight. Thinking about the whole situation makes me want to puke . My gut aches big time. I just want to go forward and have put the energy forward. But at times its short lived. Thought of being alone is very scary. Checking that part out how to get out and survive. Hes not upstairs and not said a word to his children tonight. Really at times i dont wish him bad and others i hurt so bad hope he sits on it and regrets everyday he did this to me. I dont know but i do hurt. Hoping i can get through it all. Take one day at time. Take care. I should have taken time today for me but i didnt been to busy. So this is the time.

September 21, 1999
7:50 pm
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Remember to take quiet time and cry and what do you want your life to be like? Write down and focus on the positive and beautiful qualities that you want to manifest in your life. Dont dwell on how he should feel and what you DONT have, focus on what you want and the be grateful for your physical health and the health of your children.

September 22, 1999
1:13 am
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Oh tears...I have to set the record straight after previewing your latest message. My son is the one with the mental condition. His father, my second husband is. My son is a normal healthy boy. His father only gets visitation rights if supervised by his mother, my sons' grandmother. She and I have a friendly relationship and she is very sensitive to my requests. Such as never leaving my son Zach alone with his father. We live in the Northern area of Ca. and my sons' father lives with his mother in Southern Ca. Well... it looks like I've joined the group. Hi all...please check out "on my own" for my story. And thank you for allowing me in.

September 22, 1999
1:39 am
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I can't believe I messed up again...MY SON DOES NOT HAVE THE MENTAL CONDITION. HIS FATHER DOES. THERE. MAN...I JUST CAN'T SEEM TO GATHER MY WITS ANY MORE. SORRY FOR ALL THE CONFUSION. LIKE I'VE SAID IN MY ORIGINAL THREAD...I'M A MESS. 🙁

September 22, 1999
1:54 am
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ruya
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tears,
my thread is "do i break or make up" and i joined the coda group. i don't do drugs and have no addiction. yeah perhaps that of trying and make everyone happy. my obsession is to get approval for everything that i do ready to take the blame if anything goes wrong. i wrote to my husband a couple of days ago saying that we should both have peace and asked him to start afresh. i can't ask him for answers and justification: he lies and anyway the blame will faoll on me. ther has been no reply from him so far. my major problem is that i never know when he is serious and when he is not; more importantly if he is telling me the TRUTH. he does not believe in commitment. he likes to SAIL ALONG!! i really don't know how to go through this period. please help tears i need your advise. i have made up my mind i have to seperate but then actually doing it.... and pleaeaease don't call me a drug addict. it hurts!!!!

September 22, 1999
1:57 am
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ruya
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askme, hazza two really great people. we have so much in common especially hazza and me. hang in there askme. i pray everyday for all of us. now the important thing is to plan our future and RECOVER. LOTS OF LOVE. keep in touch.
ruya.

September 22, 1999
9:49 pm
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askme
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Hey ruya yes trust is hard to obtain when they have given you all the reasons not to.. Our souls do anything for them and really try to believe them all the way and we know better but still fall victim to them . They know how to push the right buttons to get what they want. They have no regards to us. Its amasing how many times hes manipulated me to believe hes going to try. I have found out hes been manipulating to protect him no matter what . Of course hes told me i was to blame for affair. No i was not he decided it . He had a choice.. Take care all. Even when i found out he wanted to continue with it. Never appoligies for hurt he cause me . Said i hurt him. he dont know what hurt is. But im sure the woman hes dating will find his behavior selfish, abusive when it finally shows if not too late and they get married. he s desparately searching for someone. He still dont stay at home at night has to go meet someone . As he admits it to his children. Thats horrrible he dont know what he is doing to them. Right in front of them. I saw a lawyer and he said i will have to endure for awhile here. Not to leave . He has manipulated the house for him too. My dads money a con job to get his hands on it. Have his cake and eat it too .. Well got to get to bed . Workign early. Talk at you later

September 23, 1999
1:14 am
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My own hobbies/interests are put to one side. My time is spent sharing your hobbies/interests Your clothing and personal appearance are dictated by my desires and I feel you are a reflection of me Your behaviour is dictated by my desires....
Can any of you relate to this? Lets talk about how we are learning to develop our own interests/hobbies....
Welcome ruya and Kthomas!!!!!!
sorry ruya, I wasnt aware that i referred to you as a drug addict??? I am usually quite careful about not mixing up who i am talking to, but I guess i must have made a slip there, my deepest apologies. Although, we are all addicts here (not necessarily drugs)
Kthomas I am happy to hear your child is not the one with the illness, thank god, although i have empathy for your ex husband. Please feel free to talk about whatever you need to Kthomas. This is our virtual codependents support group here and it seems to be really growing.Lets talk about how we are feeling today. Lets talk about those parts of ourselves we have fragmented or denied because our partners said that those parts of ourselves were unacceptable (or other significant people) etc.

September 23, 1999
9:33 am
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hi everyone,
its really great that more people are participating now, i think we have to forgive each other and ourselves when we make little errors in our posts dont you? after all many of us have to snatch time to write here, many of us our tired (emotionally and physically) so lets give ourselves a break hey? i think one of the points of this group is for us to stop being so perfectionistic, i like to see the the honesty of when one of us has a good day then maybe a bad one, this is what it is all about!!

so, today is quite good for me, i did my stained glass course 2 days ago and i really enjoyed it, no panics- my mum came with me and went shopping while i was there, next week, i'll go alone!
yeaterday i started my Tai Chi course with my mum, it was fun but very embarrasing! trying to keep up with everyonr and remember the moves! i got home and my boyfriend had made me a cup of tea ready for when i got back!!!!!!!!!!!! i thought that was nice,
lately he has been saying alot of comments about how i hate him, fishing for attention i think, so i have each time explained to him i dont hate him, just the abusive behaviour he was showing me and other people.
today we hugged! and i helped him with some of the work he has to do for an exam he needs to take. The difference now is that i don't necessarily see him in my future, i know he will get a job and move and i wont go with him, but that doesnt frighten me. For it to work, i will have to fall in love with him again, things will need to be different, if it happens then good, if not then okay, im fine with that.
My other problem is that i am living with my parents and they are having money problems, they may have to see the house and move to are new area, i will have to go with them because i'm just not well enough to go it alone just yet, so that is a bit scary. I know that i have at the moment just swapped my dependency from my boyfriend to my parents, but at the moment if i have to be dependent on anyone i think it is healthier to be dependent on my family than on him.
i have had no futher progress on getting any help (doctors)with the agoraphobia, no one wants to know, i am thinking of starting a charity that can help people like me by providing councellors and treatment programs for the condition because as i have found, there is ZERO hepl available out there for this condition and it is so disabling. i still wake up with anxiety, but i was so glad that when i was on my course it didn't occur, it makes me think that there is hope and i can be free of it one day.
so, thats my news, how are you guys?
ruya, thanks for the compliment, i understand where you are at, it is so scary thinking of life without them, that is what keeps us staying in a situation we don't like, all i can advise is that you see where the strong aspects of your life are, for example your relationships with friends, family ,children etc, and make sure at the moment that you give them at least as much attention as you are giving your relationship, when we build up these aspects of our lives then we get the perpective back and get a heathlier balance in our lives, then we dont feel tha we can lose everything when our partner decides. i hope you understand what i mean, is difficult to explain but when you build up that other part of your life, the part that we typically ignore through being co-dep., then it may feel like your partner can control the relationship part of your life but it will only be one part of it, you would still have continuity in your friends, family and so on, it stops the feeling that you are risking everything, you are not when you are getting satisfaction from many various aspects of your life. I think the touble i had with my partner was that i loved his POTENTIAL more than his REALITY, i was is denial about this for so long that it all finally erupted in me breaking down, he was so unapproachable that is it even now impossible to discuss any area of the realtionship without an argument. He tells me off, like he is my boss, the other day we (he!) were talking and i kept being distracted by the television, this annoyed him, so i just looked right at him and said" the problem is that i find you so intimadating that i physically can't look you in the eye, and they way you talk to me as if i'm a child just makes me so angry that i end up not even caring about what you are talking about" I have to just say i now, i cant keep thinking these things and not saying it, his temper or the worry about it has made me afraid to be alone with him because im so worried another converstaion will start where he controls me, this makes me panic, so every time i feel that he is doing it i just have to explain, i dont know if itwill help or if we will split, i don't care anymore i just know i don't want to be afraid. i am trying to get him to understand that my anxiety disorder will not go away over night and that he must show consideration and realise that right or wrong the smallest of things can send me into a panic, so i dont know what will happen, but i'll let you all know as it does!
askme, hang in there girl! you sound so much better than when we first met, i think that like with me, your partner has crossed that line and now you are thinking about your life not only his. i think that is a major corner to turn in recovery, a whole lot of emotions start to fall into place once that happens.
tears, (i thinkk you should change your name to smiles!)you want to know about aspects of ourselves that we deny becuase of them. i told you before how he started calling me stupid and i flipped out at him, that has stopped for the moment, i think you are right when you told me to concentrate on me and he will follow, i know he is a little jealous that i am living in my "cocoon" right now and doing thins i enjoy whilst he has to face reality and get a job, but he doesnt dare go as far as to say that now, because for the last three years it was the opposite. i now ignore any of the subtle manipulations and slowley take way his power over me. i have 2 battles, the one with him and the one with myself, im starting to win the one with him so i can concentrate on the one with myself, i just hope i get enough time to sort it all out.

sorry for the long post but i dont get much chance to write so when i can do it i just try to write it all at once!
Kthomas, welcome, im now going to read you posts, so we will speak soon!
take care everyone,
Hazza

September 23, 1999
10:38 am
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hi kthomas,
ive read your threads now, wow its really scary when we first realise that amonst all the problems our men have, hidden away there are co.dep problems in us too, huh?
its great that your seeing a concellor, i know about living with a drinker, i've had enough, he has stopped now for 2 weeks, he wouldn't drink every day but would have binges. once more and he is out,
you have already reached the point where enough is enough, this is a great group to help with all the stuff you are going through right now, esp. tears! if she doesn't enlighten you with her excellent advice then i will eat my mouse mat!
take care,
Hazza

September 23, 1999
12:05 pm
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Self limiting beliefs that cause our codependency and anxiety disorders : for Hazza and everyone else. These beliefs are ones that we all really need to clear in order to heal.Print out and check off the ones that identify you and we will all do the "releasing of limiting beliefs exercise" (kthomas do join in as well as ruya)Not only check off the limiting beliefs that relate to you but take a piece of paper and write at the top "The reason I cant have _(your goal)__is.....Then list all the reasons that come to YOUr mind.
These are ones that i have listed that are usually common to women like us:

~ I feel powerless or helpless.
Often I feel like a victim of outside circumstances.
Life is very difficult-it's a struggle
I am unworthy. I feel that i'm not good enough.
My condition seems hopeless.
There is something fundamnetally wrong with me.
I feel like i'm nothing (or cant make it) unless i'm loved (by so and so)
What others think of me is ver important.
People wont like me if they see who I really am.
I cant rely on others for help
If i let someone get too close, i'm afraid of being controlled.
Im the only one who can solve my problems.
Im just the way i am-I cant really change.

In addition to the negative beliefs you have written down on your piece of paper,
These are some of the negative attitudes and beliefs
that might obstruct your ability to create your goal.

Now list 1,2 or 3 on the strength of your belief in that thought. How strongly do you believe these thoughts (hazza this is great for uncovering the negative thoughts you may be unconciously telling yourself when you panic.....during an attack stop yourself and say, what negative or limiting belief am i telling myself right now, while doing your breathing exercises) Now pull apart your negative and limiting beliefs. The more energy and conviction you give to negative attitudes that are contrary to attaining your goal, the harder it will be to realize that goal. Identify the particular attitudes adn beliefs that you think are most getting in your way, now you are ready to work on clearing and releasing your problem beliefs. You may be surprised to find how well the following process works if you follow it carefully and with sincere intention.

1 Accept that you ahve a negative belief.
No denial, you were probably condition to believe this by your parents, peers, or society at large. (Raven i hope you are reading and doing this too) before you let a belief go, its important to simply acept that its been a part of your life.

2. Acknowledge any fearful or hurtful feelings you have around the belief. If for example you hold a belief that you dont deserve to have your goal, (askme, this may be freedom from pain, as with all ofus) you need to identify and express any feelings of guilt or shame that surround that belief. Or if you are afraid to truly have what you want, its importnat that you express that fear not to SUPPRESS. So much of our trouble girls, is due to SUPPRESSING AND DENYING OUR FEELINGS. Of all the stpes in the clearing process, this is the one where you're most likely to benefit form working with a counselor or a trusted friend. (we can do it here)Its often easier to acknowledge long-standing, painful feelings in the presence of a supportive other. (Not our partners) If you choose to do clearing on your own, howeverm you can express your feelings on paper or into a tape recorder.
Key is to HAVE COMPASSION FOR YOURSELF (as i do for all of you and me:))-to forgive yourself- especially for any negative feelings of fear, shame, or anger that may haveblocked your ability to believe in yourself. Again, having a compassionate counselor or friend ot assist may help this process along.

3. Are you willing to let go of the negative belief. (Ask yourself)
Is there some way in which holding on to the self-limiting belief(s) can still serve you? is ther an unconcious payoff? Usually, I hate to say it girls, but there is.. ARE YOU READY FOR A LIFE THAT IS NOT BASED ON SUCH A BELIEF? I know i am. You may not realise your longstanding negative beliefs in an instant, your sincere readinness and willingness to let it go will assure thaat you do so-sooner or later.

Perform a ritual to release the negative belief.
To symbolize this process, you can tear up the paper or burn it (the one with the neg belief on it) and repeat affirmations to encourage letting go, for example:
"I now dissolve any negative, self limiting beliefs."
"I release and let go of any fear, shame, or guilt that stands in my way"
"I am now free and clear of any attitue that I dont need."
"All of my negative attitudes are now fully dissolved and released."
This process of creating something new in our lives may that place over time.Repeat this clearing process frequently untill you feel you have completely released a particular limiting belief, like pulling weeds from a garden. You may need to do weeding more than once in the process of watching your "plants" grow to full maturity.

OUR NEXT LESSON WILL BE INCLUDING YOUR HIGHER POWER INT HE CREATIVE PROCESS
Ok guys, I know you love all the advice, but it really is up to us to do the hard work necessary, ON OURSELVES, to get ourselves to a place of empowerment, strength, clarity and vision for a healthier self and healthier life for our own sake and that of your children.

September 23, 1999
11:46 pm
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KTHOMAS
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Tears...man you go way over my head. I understand the shame we all carry and the blame we put on ourselves...and I'm the first to admit that I am my own worst critic...but my head is so jumbled right now. All I can do is cry...no control. Like I'm going insane. I even had to leave work early yesterday because I just couldn't regain control. Now my husband, Tim is trying to court me again. I wrote him a letter explainig how I was feeling and now it's like I gave him instructions on how to get back under my skin. He's coming for dinner. And wants to go to my counseling appointment with me. I feel like if I don't let him then it'll be my fault that we didn't get help. But I am falling to pieces and I want to go by myself. I just want to let my gaurd down without anyone using it against me. My head is so full...I constantly am going over everything every which why possible. I have to use sleeping pills to shut down and get sleep. I hate doing this but when I don't I end up with 3 to 5 hours of sleep a night and end up making errors at work. I'm tired...I'm sorry. I don't even really know for sure what my goal is anymore. Except to be a good mother to my son. That is all that keeps me from slipping away.

September 23, 1999
11:56 pm
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Hi everybody, My name is Raven. Nice to meet you all..

September 24, 1999
10:57 pm
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KTHOMAS
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Hi Hazza...thank you for your kind words. I like hearing what you all have to say. We are all looking for answers and hope that some day we'll get it all together. My appt. to see the counselor isn't til Oct. 6th. Seems a million years from now. tim (my husband) wants to go...but I wish I could just go myself. He didn't come for dinner...why should i be suprised. He asked to do something this weekend but I made sure i had plans. Why do I have to always be at his beck and call you know. I am very depressed today. sorry. I just wanted to say thanks for making me a part of this thread/group. It feels like I have friends out there that I don't have to pretend that I am "all that" if you know what I mean. Thanks again.

September 24, 1999
11:04 pm
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Hi All,

I go up and down all the time. I do fine then I get tripped up in these codependent relationships. God awful nasty business. Yeah, I get really depressed too. Rips me to shreds.

I really liked tears sept 23 message with the points we need to consider. I just want to stop subjecting myself to these relationships. It is just hard not to fall into the "I'll never find anybody" syndrome. And i don't just me the one and only. I mean finding people who really add to my life. Its hard.

Thanks and I will continue following this thread.

September 24, 1999
11:09 pm
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Hi Raven. Nice meeting you too. How are you doing?

September 25, 1999
1:47 am
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What's the difference between co dependency and stupidity? I think a lot of women and men let themselves be put into these relationships that they know are not good for them in the beginning. They put up with the lies, the cheating, the physical and mental abuse because of low self esteem or ignorance. Most people realize the relationship is terrible to begin with. You cannot change a person's stripes. If they drank when you met them, they will drink during the relationship and during the marriage. If she/he was cheating on someone when you met them, chances are, they will cheat on you, and so on and so on. So many people let themselves be stepped on and then cry co dependency. I dont believe that co dependency exists. I believe that ignorance and stupidity exists. You have to be aware of what you are getting yourself involved with. If a man/woman has had numerous marriages and engagements, why should you think that that will change with you? I;m telling everyone who subscribes to this link to WAKE UP! If the relationship isn't good, leave it alone. Especially if kids are involved. Set a example for your family. Get some morals. Make a list of what you want from your ideal mate and stick to it! Dont accept any half steppers! And dont cry about it when you know someone is walking over you and you continue to let them do it over and over and over again. BREAK THE CYCLE!

September 25, 1999
8:39 am
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Cynical,
But because I am smart I can see I have a problem. I am not stupid at all. I don't think the people here are stupid. I am a very intelligent and people smart. I have accomplished a great deal in my life and have many friends.

I really, really, really, really wish it was as simple as me just being stupid. But unfortunately it is not. For some reason every so often I don't protect myself in certain relationships. There are reasons which are difficult to both confront and figure out. It has to do a lot with pain not stupidity. Think pain and not stupid. It is extremely difficult to deal with it. We have to but its hard. It may or may not be codependency but it is a pattern not having to do with something as simplistic as "just being stupid." I wish.

September 25, 1999
1:29 pm
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well Cynical not only speaks out of ignorance but judgment and anger too. This place, that Cynical dwells in is a dark place that all of us are learning NOT to operate from. We can practice keeping strong boundaries by not dignifying a response to someone calling us stupid. This expresses CYNICAL not us. Just as when an abusor tries to make us responsible for HIS anger and hatred. This is HIS crap not ours. We can use this as an example and lesson by not feeding the fire with more fuel and participating in such ignorant and abusive dialogue. We dont need to play martyrs or persecutors, just be our beautiful selves and take pride in the fact that most women that heal from codependency or loving too much, usually have more insight, gifts and knowledge that most people because of the suffering, we gain great wisdom and gratitude when we create a life of joy and fulfillment. We should all be proud that we are silent sages.
Blessings

September 25, 1999
11:41 pm
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I dont speak out of ignorance nor anger. I have a wonderful relationship with my mate and I am very happy. You are playing a martyr by saying, 'oh look at me and what I'm going through'. What are you doing to change your situation? Do you enjoy suffering? Maybe so. If you had pride in yourself you would not deal with whatever crap someone is giving you. You would leave that relationship and never look back. So what you have feelings invested, you have to look at the long run and do whats right for you and whatever family you have. For the record, I wasnt calling anyone stupid. I merely asked a simple question. If you think I called you stupid, then maybe you have a problem with more than just being so-called co dependent.

September 26, 1999
12:25 am
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It seems like we are getting out of control here. Cynical I can understand why you are mad especially if you think your message was misunderstood. But whatever right? Let's move on. I have no idea where you or tears "dwell" or what kind of "crap" you or her carry but let's move on.

I am selfish so I really only want to get rid of my crap whether its codependency or stupidity or some sort of bad acid flashback (joke). Whatever works in the long run is fine for me. And fact is that this board has helped somewhat. Fact. I will also try to just "not look back" too. I don't care, whatever works in the long run wins.

Everyone take care!!!

September 26, 1999
10:20 am
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I used to feel like cynical...I had friends in bad situations and I would try to help them. I couldn't understand why they just wouldn't leave the loser and get on with their lives. Unless you live it you can't even imagine what it's like. I used to judge people and think they must like the pain and being treated this way. or maybe they just like the attention they get from others and want them to feel sorry for them. Now that I am one of those sad people...I know that it's not so easy. Each one of us is different and we all find ourselves in situations that we never dreamed we would allow ourselves in. We are not future tellers...we have no crystal balls to tell us what will come our way...and because we believe in the fairy tale...we don't reconize the danger signals until we are too deeply involved with the person and love is really blind sometimes. Life isn't black and white at all...there is so much gray matter all around us and yes at times we feel stupid and get angry at ourselves for letting this happen to us. But if we stay in that place of "shame" how will we ever realize that it's okay to make mistakes and it's okay when we keep making them as long as we keep telling ourselves the truth and one day...yes one day we can lift our heads again and grow. This is what keeps me alive...knowing that one day I will be able to lift my head without the shame and guilt and feel good about myself. One step at at time. If it was easy as cynical says...we'd all be overcomers and life would be perfect. But we do not live in a perfect world and no one should ever degrade someone for what they feel or how they are handleing the situation they are in. Sometimes just getting through the day is a triumph to be celebrated. We each grow at different paces and I thank God I found this group. I can be who I am and not be judged or have someone shake thier head at me because maybe I was weak today. There is a lot of love here and no room for anything else.

September 26, 1999
12:39 pm
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That was great kthomas!!! Wow, so cool. I feel the same way. Thanks for articulating the feelings and your point of view and sharing with us. Awesome!!!! I think cynical is not trying to degrade but is just frustrated with all this pain. I get frustrated with the pain too. Thanks.

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