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Codependent seeking like for destructive relationship?
September 6, 2001
4:54 pm
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1dvsgirl
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We've been friends for a year, lovers for 6 months and probably codependent since childhood. Sometimes I'm actually listening to that voice, the one most of us ignore, telling me not to stick myself in the fire (again) while I'm reaching my hand closer saying "THIS time I won't actually touch it". We're both serious and monogamous people, we don't go out for flings for fun, we're home on time blah blah blah. We decide that we really don't need a relationship or some serious committment getting in the way of what we're trying to accomplish for ourselves right now. All that works as long as we both kept telling ourselves we don't REALLY care. I clam up and retreat into my emotional fortress and he drinks to get numb. Somewhere in all that we figure out that (lightbulb) we do care. I won't give in anymore than that because I don't want to be the girl that the nice guy with asshole tedencies works out his problems with and then leaves when he actully is a decent human being or worse the one who stays when he doesn't work them out. He won't give in anymore than that because he is in the downward spiral that leads to rock bottom and if he screws this up to he'll be exactly what he fears he is. It's hard to love Jeckyl and not want to kill Hyde. Truth is I love them both, but I know he has to do this himself.....where do I go from here?

September 6, 2001
6:28 pm
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Ladeska
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Follow your own good sense. You don't really need me or anyone else to tell you what to do here. You already know, girlfriend. Time to move on. Time to acknowledge where you are and that you have grown past him. You've given each other - what you could for awhile, but you wouldn't be here - if that was enough and okay with you - what you have now, right?

No need to go down with the sinking ship, right? He's got a brain, a hand that can reach for whatever life preserver. Let him be responsible for that and you be responsible for you. Otherwise, you'll never find the person that will truly be a good counterpart to you. Why? Because you'll be too busy studying his navel, or someone like him or getting over what you just went through with them.

Life is too short and you have to call the shots here in your own best interests. Straighten up, take a deep breath and do what you know you need to. Don't look back, don't hesitate, don't second guess yourself. Your radar is right on, so use it.

September 7, 2001
12:55 pm
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Molly
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Your label of the post tells it all, kinda funny, and maybe the most truthful personal ad header I've seen in a long time.
Ladeska said it right on, your radar is working, you know even if you don't touch the fire, you can still get burned by being close.
Wouldn't you rather
HEALTHY INDEPENDENT WOMAN SEEKING WORTHY EQUAL FOR QUALITY REALATIONSHIP?

September 7, 2001
4:40 pm
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1dvsgirl
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Ladeska - somehow I knew I'd get to hear from you on this one. So I take a deep breath, for once pay attention to all the red flags and walk away. Someday I'm really going to be through this instead of working through this. I'm past thinking I'm the one who can save him (or anyone), that's comes from loving yourself enough to get out, even if you have to crawl and starting over. I know I can walk away and be OK. I have a very busy life just for this very purpose. Do I have to stop being his friend - not his savior, enabler, et al.? Just his friend. When I hit rock bottom I didn't have anyone and I learned a lot, but I would have given my right arm for one good friend at the time. I'm always overanalyzing everything and thinking through every possible outcome before I act. Am I doing that now? BTW I love these boards because theres no pretense - just honest real feelings!
Molly - Thank you for the thread. I would love to be the healthy independent seeking equal, but honestly how many men out there are actually good enough for their women? Just kidding;-) That's the whole reason for working through all the codependent/abandonment issues on my own. I will be that someday and I'm not off to too bad of a start.

September 7, 2001
5:20 pm
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Ladeska
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1dvsgirl...you're doing great, you really are. And as for your question about being his friend - I'd warn against it and I know that sounds harsh, but it's just too much of a temptation and believe me he will suck you in if at all possible.

The best way for anyone to get on with their life - is to do it - on their own and definitely not being connected to a past love interest where things didn't work out. There is no way - strings won't be there and thus - confusion and games...save yourself the noise.

I have to laugh at us sometimes, we humans are so friggin funny. Here we are always worrying about how the other person feels and beating ourselves up if we appear too selfish or whatever. And yet - this other person can spin us up, chew us up and spit us out and we end up doing this.... eh?

It's okay to be selfish sometimes. In fact, it's okay to be selfish alot when it comes to people who do nothing but take from us. Saying NO - is just fine. We don't have to be Mother Teresa for the world. It would be nice however....if we would apply all that nice-nice to our own side of the fence. novel idea. *smile*

To check in on him out of the blue every few months and really having control on the conversation and not getting sucked into something - is one thing (if you can do that...), but staying in constant contact back and forth, blah, blah - is asking for trouble in my opinion. You are both very codependent and if you have that connection - you'll get that stringy weird thing going again one way or the other.

September 10, 2001
5:55 pm
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1dvsgirl
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I did it. I walked away. Turned the ringer off on my phone. Spent the weekend somewhere that can only be defined as anywhere but here. I'm OK. I did the right thing and I know because I feel good about it. I laid it all on the line for him, stopped worrying about where the honesty was going to take him and said it all just for my precious piece of mind. For once he didn't say "Don't leave". He said that he already knew, that I was leaving because I loved him but I had to love me more and then he cried. I gave in and called one of our mutual friends today to see how he's doing. I won't get involved, rush in to save him from himself. I won't walk back in, but in that sick selfish way that we all have I had to know. Of course he told me that "C"'s miserable -- in shock that I'm gone and for once not drinking to make it numb. He spent the weekend hashing out our relationship in all its glory and accepting that I had to leave. Knowing that I was always the braver one he understands that he never would have gone, but if I hadn't it never would have really worked. He loves me, but it's scarier for him because he had started to feel like he needed me. He calls my phone knowing I won't answer but at least he gets to hear my voice. I tell him not to say I called and that in a little time "C" will be back to his old self, or better finally crawling out on his own. He agrees, but is sad for us that it had to end for these reasons. "When you guys are great, there's nothing like it. You love each other the way people should, and then it goes to shit" He tells me that people always stay with alcoholics and people talk about how strong they are. He tells me he thinks I'm stronger because I still love him and walked away because it was what I needed. He makes me promise I won't be a stranger and that I'll be at their show. I'll go and sit in the shadows. He'll never know I'm there but I love seeing him that happy - that bliss when he's doing exactly what he loves. I thank myself for getting out OVER and OVER. Even if he doesn't get better I already am.

September 10, 2001
6:37 pm
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Ladeska
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I AM SOOO PROUD OF YOU!!! HI-FIVE GIRLFRIEND! Wow, you really did it! Awesome! Knew you could though...could see some spunk in the cyberwaves - the way they were crashing on the shore and all. *smile*

Yep, it's an addiction being addicted to someone who's addicted to you and everything else they get their hands on, huh? (snort) Yeah buddie.. And tis true that there's nothing like a charmer - when he or she is ON! Jimminey Crickets - just love, love, love em like crazy CUZ they are sooo good at what they do, huh?

Yeah well...if you like consistency with your meal - you'd need to look elsewhere because you won't be finding it here. Don't come in that size or color.

I think it all comes down to - accepting who they are - but not allowing them to spin your wheel. Like you going and watching his show incognito - that's applauding the good of himself that he stretches out there. It should be embraced, applauded. But, the bottomline is that - people who can charm - also tend to be - lazy.

They get so busy with their words and their charm that they get disconnected with the real grunt work involved. Or maybe it's that - they tried it - and didn't like it.. Some people just like to crash and burn all the time AND they love the highs. Is an addiction in and of itself. The bad is real, real bad and the good is real, real good. Some people live for that and consequently they leave a path of destruction behind them. Rather narcissistic...

Oh yes, I'm so sure he is over there analyzing everything, throwing himself on the floor, crying rivers, etc., etc. All I have to say to that is - No. 1 - save the drama for the screen and so, um, like....whhyyyy? did it take her leaving for you to "get it"?

Again....it's that lazy thing. They know, they know plenty, they just play you out until you can't play any more and then they go - okay fine...I'll whine and cry and sniffle and say all the things you want to hear - "now c'mon on back over here to your sweetie and love up on me, see how great I am and look at how I'm going to change and patch this one up, blah, blah, blah - yada, yada..(yawn)...."

IF - a person wants to change - chances of them "doing it" as in direct response to you - having grief over them - is slim to none. That's usually a con game flying. People sincerely want to pull themselves up -do it because the desire/need/stimulation to do so - comes from them. Otherwise, if it doesn't - it won't last.

Write down what you want in a relationship, in a man. Spell it out, keep it around, refer to it often, amend it. But, don't ever again - settle. Even if you're alone now and then - YOU are good company for yourself. If I were you - I'd really turn the volume down on what you hear from him through other people. Do you really need to hear all this? What's the saying - watch what your little ears "hear". Alot of wisdom in that one....

September 10, 2001
6:57 pm
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1dvsgirl
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As usual girlfriend you are right on. We have a lot of mutual friends so I'll be careful to close my little ears:-) I'm not surprised by the behavior from him, what I am surprised by is that he usually does this part along with a 5-7 day drinking binge. He's sober for now and good for him, but I'm not holding my breath. I took responsibility for me and that is the only thing that is important now. I do have a question for you though - I am trying to seperate the enabler/codependent part of me from the loving/caring person that I actually like being. Most of the time we know when we are aobut to cross the line, but I have a huge heart. How do I keep the stuff I like and get rid of the destructive stuff at the same time when the seem to be so close? Something I'll just evolve to eventually? As for seeing his show incognito, right now it's the only way I can do it. All the things I love about Jeckyl are still there as well as all the things I hate about Hyde. I know myself well enough that he'll be more Jeckyl than Hyde, especially after 3 weeks of no contact. And I know if he's going to change it has to be because he wants to and for him and him alone. I didn't start to change until I wanted to - but I love the difference it makes. I have the "list" I've been amending it for about 10 years now and it's come a long way from 6' attractive and breathing *smile* But have faith good friend that it gets amending a little more the more I learn about me....Thanks for always being there....

October 3, 2001
4:40 pm
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1dvsgirl
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Ladeska - I need some advice. "C" and I still haven't talked/seen each other (almost a month since I left). I went to their show, snuck in the back, left after their set so he didn't see me. Today he left a message on my phone that he is doing his 30 day sobriety recognition/talk at his AA meeting next week. He asked if I would come. I want to go to let him know I support what he's trying to do, but am leary of the face to face contact which is impossible not to have if I go. As a friend I am so proud of his accomplishment, but am still not coming back to him. I don't think this is about charm or a "look at me" thing, but what if I'm wrong? Am I overthinking this?

October 3, 2001
5:18 pm
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Molly
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I wouldn't go, he is not in a stable place and if you were his support system, he may make more out of your appearance that you want him to make. If your making a clean break with no intentions of reconcilliation,send a prayer for him.
Honor your instincts. A month is not long enough really, your weak, and he is weak. But if you want to reconcille, then go, and leave, or leave a note with the secretary of the meeting.

October 3, 2001
7:04 pm
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gingerleigh
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I think that Molly's suggestion of the note is a great idea. Shows that you made the effort to actually show up and wanted to support him as a friend, but protects you in your weakend state.

October 5, 2001
5:44 pm
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SuzyQ
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1 dvsgirl:
Something you said awhile back struck me.
I can relate to you re: separating the codependent/enabler part from the loving/caring person that I am. However, I have been a therapist for 10yrs and still haven't a clue (ok, I'm starting to learn) where the line is. YIKES-Somehow I've managed but don't know how. It's hard for me to make that separation and I am learning gradually. Be careful in your situation and take care!

October 9, 2001
3:41 pm
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1dvsgirl
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Molly, gingerleigh and SuzyQ -

Thanks for the threads and advice. I'm giving a mutual friend a card and his favorite coffee so I don't have to do the face to face, but that he knows that I do care and am proud of him for his achievement. As to seperating the loving/caring parts of me that I like from the codependant side I don't know if I'm any closer to even figuring out where that line is. I definately know when I'm over it, but cannot seem to pinpoint the moment I actually cross it. Maybe it's not a moment - maybe it's a slow gradual fade. I've spent so much time working through abandonment issues and my eating disorder that I just haven't gotten around to that particular part of my psyche until now. I really just want for one day to feel like I'm through one of these issues instead of GOING THROUGH one of these issues!! Thanks again for the help and support....

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