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Codependency - How do you tell someone you have to caretake yourself right now?
October 17, 2006
10:11 am
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StronginHim77
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red -

I am SO proud of you for cancelling, then holding firm when she tried to lure you back for a Friday commitment. GOOD GIRL. You are definitely taking Giant Steps towards recovering your peace and strength.

Push the guilt away. It is undeserved and unwarranted. You have done nothing wrong. Again, if this woman LOVED you, she would not want to put you out or impose additional burdens on you at this time.

You owe her nothing.

- Strong

October 17, 2006
10:21 am
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red blonde
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Strong

Thank you for telling me you are proud of me! I really did need that!

I have let people walk all over me and make me do things that I really didn't WANT to do. And now I can say NO MORE! I tried so many times that I needed to take a break from caretaking her (though I didn't put it those exact words) and needed to work on issues in my life that have been stressing me out and causing me to have panic attacks. I think she ignored what I was telling her. What do you think? Do you think she may be a "ambient" abuser? I really almost ended up in the hospital this weekend, one panic attack got really severe.

Red

October 17, 2006
10:24 am
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red blonde
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Now if I can get my cats to stop making me codependent! (he he)

Red

October 17, 2006
11:06 am
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atalose
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I am very impressed with you Red, way to go!! The relaxing of the shoulder blades is only the begining for you, what a wonderful feeling it is to free ourselves from the grips we allow others to have on us. The more you begin to say no and mean it, the less and less that quilt will feel. I went thru this with my mother, she was very needy and would not do much for herself. She was the queen of quilt trips until the day came when I finaly stood up for myself, told her no-do it for yourself. That was the day to the begining of my freedom. The more I would stick to my No's and mean them, the less and less she asks now. She does more for herself then ever, she if very capable of helping herself she just choices not to.
I still have slips every now and again where she will ask me to run here or do that for her and I am hesitant but end up doing it. I end up feeling like I sold myself out and she then begins another cycle of constantly asking me. I am learning to balance it and stick to my wants and needs instead of just hers. I don't stick around long enough to hear her quilt trips anymore and that helps.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

October 17, 2006
6:36 pm
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red blonde
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Atalose!

Thank you! I have hardly ever said "NO" in my life! Conditioned that way since I was born. Tell you what! It is the most liberating feeling to finally be able to say: "NO" and finally stand my ground! WOW! I 'feel' like I can do that more often now that I have done it...to others who want me to do things for them that I REALLY DO NOT WANT TO DO...but always talk me into doing stuff! I could feel myself caving before making the call to cancel and telling her to find some one else to do stuff! I am really quite proud of myself! I could tell by her voice and attitude that she was upset and almost caved then. But I kept thinking: Help you or help myself? Caretake or panic
attacks? Help you or hospital? (because that is where I know I would have ended up, in the hospital)

That you, everyone! Without all of your support and advice, I would NEVER have been able to do that! I think I am learning to overcome codependency! WOW!

(((((((((((((EVERYONE))))))))))))))

Red

October 17, 2006
6:58 pm
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needtoheal
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way to go, RED!! Just want to say that I am so proud of you!!!!

October 17, 2006
7:57 pm
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red blonde
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Thank you, Needtoheal!

I feel very good right now! Hope it last for a while!

Red

October 18, 2006
4:31 pm
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red blonde
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Needtoheal
Strong
Atalose
Caraway
Everyone

Just got home from taking one of my cats to vet and there, on my answering machine, was a msg from my teacher who said she talked to a nurse and that it was recommended that I go see my doc to get Ambien? for my "sleeping" problem! Obviously, she doesn't understand what I am going through right now. PTSD, panic attacks, and codependency. Then she started insisting that I come over on Friday! I feel guilty when I should not and feel angry that she may be trying to rope me into what I do not want to do and have not wanted to do for the past year AT LEAST.

Should I establish NO CONTACT and just ignore her calls? Thank God she doesn't have my cell no.

(((((((((((Group hug)))))))))))))

Red
.

October 19, 2006
9:22 am
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StronginHim77
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Establish "No Contact" and stop taking her calls. She is trying to make you feel "to blame" for her panic situation. (Abusers and manipulators always panic when they lose control of others.) She had no business calling any medical professional and/or obtaining medical suggestions for your sleeping difficulties. Heck...SHE'S the reason you are having them.

Ignore her. Do not answer the message. Delete it. If you can, block her from calling you. (I have this service on my home phone.)

- Strong

October 19, 2006
7:44 pm
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virginia
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REd,
I am letting my sister manipulate me, but we are blood kin, this person aint even related. Just ignore her for heaven's sake.
Blessings

October 20, 2006
3:10 am
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red blonde
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Strong and Virginia

Yes, you are both right. I grew up being codependent and I am trying to break the cycle again. A year ago I tried to break away...but never could put my finger on why I felt the way I did...Recognized physical
abusers, but had no clue as to other abusers...Ladeska's thread opened my eyes alot. I didn't realize that she had been controlling and manipulating me consciously, but some how subconsciously, I did know.

(((((((((Hugs and Prayers)))))))))))

Red

October 20, 2006
11:24 am
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red blonde
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Strong

I know now why I feel the way I do with my art teacher...codependent. She had told me that I was late to class or coming over...she would call my house, if she didn't get me or my answering machine, she would call the operator to see if I was on line, on a phone call, or if my phone was off the hook. First time, it did not bother me, but when she would consistently do this..I just started feeling strange about it. kind of panicky.

When I was going through my 2nd divorce, and lived in an apartment above a store...Wonderful apartment...I decided I would take a vacation for a week, had a friend come over to take care of my cat. When I came home, the owner of the store next to the apt. came over and said that the police and fire department and the owner of the building had gone into my apt., he didn't know why. So I then called the police and asked. My mother had called them and insisted that I must be dead because I wasn't answering my phone and all she got was my answering machine. BUT I had TOLD my mother I was going out of town...SHE had been over at the apt. as well with police etc. She had NEVER been to my apt. and I didn't want her over there. And they went through my THINGS...It felt like I was robbed, my privacy had been invaded!

I had felt VIOLATED AGAIN by my mother...and now with art teacher doing almost same thing...I feel the same way!

Funny, I had forgotten that incident.
At least I can work on it now.

October 20, 2006
11:45 am
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red blonde
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My mother had been my first abuser in ALL descriptions of the word: Abuse or abuser.

October 20, 2006
11:45 am
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sleepless in uk
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Hi Red

I have read your threads and wanted to say I understand so well that panicky feeling and the fear of saying no to somebody and then resenting it

I think you are doing so great and show a good deal of insight

well done

take care of you

love sleepless

October 20, 2006
11:52 am
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StronginHim77
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red -

Your mother sounds like she is mentally ill. Off the charts. Stay as clear of her as you can. Heck, I would probably move and leave no "forwarding address." Block her from calling you, if your phone provider offers that option.

What she did was a clear violation of your rights and your privacy.

No wonder you are struggling to find "space" from others and say "No." Your mother was way over the top, my friend. I can't even imagine how tough it must have been, growing up in such an environment.

October 20, 2006
11:56 am
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red blonde
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Sleepless

Thank you for posting.

Got to work on, what they say, codependency "recycling". Just never realized that I could be codependent with others who were not physically or sexually abusive. I am learning though. Maybe my subconscious knows and my panic attacks are the warning sign that something should be addressed in my life.

Take care of yourself as well!

Red

October 20, 2006
6:48 pm
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sleepless in uk
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thank you Red

I should have said I know what it is like to NOT say no and then resent it..

and I also know about the verbal and emotional abuse and how easy it is not to realise it because you are just so damn grateful not to be physically or sexually abused....long story but its nice to talk to others who understand

love Sleepless

October 20, 2006
7:37 pm
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red blonde
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Sleepless,

Been reading Ladeska's thread about being PREY and it really was kind of
a shock to me. I was thrown into intensive therapy beginning of the 90's for battered woman syndrome due to what happened with an xbf. Worked on codependency and with battered women's groups. Learned the red flags on sexual and physical abusers, but not with verbal or mental or emotional abusers. When I try to explain to someone who has not been abused physically or sexually, they all say the same thing: "Why don't they just leave!" I try and explain, but they just don't get it!

I guess I allowed myself to be vulnerable around the wrong people... XSO and Teacher. And now my older sister is trying to get me to caretake her as well. I just can not do that right now..don't need that...and there is really nothing I can do about the situation that she is in...which she put herself in.

I will definitely work on red flags now with all types of abusers.

Have you read Ladeska's Thread?

It is nice to talk to others who understand...thank you.

love, Red

October 20, 2006
7:50 pm
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sleepless in uk
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Yes I have read Ladeski's thread although not posted on it

Actually it was her threads and those of others that first made me realise that this emotional abuse was real...that I wasnt actually mad or insane or bad and that other people knew how it felt to never feel good enough...to try and try but still be found wanting.

I dont know if you have ever looked up 'Ambient Abuse' on the net...someone suggested i look it up and it took me to Dr Sam Vankin's site

Boy was that scary....felt like he had been in my house!

Bit like the 'gaslighting' thing. Trouble is you get to a point where you seriously doubt your judgements and ability to make decisions. Thats where I am now but I am really working on it

Sounds to me like you are doing really well...it is harder with family members but I hope you are able to stay strong and resist the pressure from your sister...

take care and good luck with the red flags....

love sleepless

October 20, 2006
8:04 pm
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bonita1
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red!!

Hi, girlfriend! I haven't been on the site all week and the first thing I do is to check up on how you are doing!

You sound like you have made some awesome strides in recovery from co-dependence. I am proud of you for cancelling with your teacher and holding firm.

I think your idea of NO CONTACT is a sound one. She seems like a pest who just won't take "NO" for an answer. Maybe you should consider changing your phone number to a private line?

Just food for thought.

~~Bonita 🙂

P.S. Somebody mentioned a Senior Center that might have services for her. That is a great idea for her but you should not be the one to do it. Does she have family? Maybe you could contact them to come and take care of it. That's all I think you can do, if that. It's not your responsibility.

October 20, 2006
11:13 pm
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bonita1
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just bumping this up, red, so that you will see it. 🙂

October 22, 2006
1:27 pm
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red blonde
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Sleepless and Bonita

Hi, girlfriends!

Been kind of busy the last couple of days, read some threads and posted to them but didn't get to my own threads!

I am also learning NOT to say I AM SORRY.

Since I have established NC with the art teacher, my mild panic attacks have lessened. So has the tightening of my muscles between my shoulder blades. (They actually felt like they were burning from being stressed)

I have been working on myself, it isn't easy, there is alot I have to work on. Alot of it is conditioning since I was a small child, at least, as far back as I can remember. I had blocked alot of my childhood out and then started having "flashbacks" after xh1.

I was raised as a caretaker and had a very abusive mother. My father, whom I loved very much, must have been extremely codepedent as well.

It is sad that females in a dysfunctional family are taught to be caretakers early on. I don't think I was ever allowed to be just a "little girl". Mine maybe an extreme case, I don't know. As a child, my mother more or less isolated me from other children. So I don't remember ever having FUN. All due to the her "secret"! I have dug up the locked box that I buried her secret in and taking another hard look at it and all that she has done to me and others, even those outside the family. And I am begining to realize some things as to why I have allowed abusers of every kind into my life.

Sleepless, I am going to go to that site...the one about Ambient Abuse by Dr. Sam Vankin. And thank you for your words...I need alot of info now.

Bonita, She has four children. One who flies down and checks on her every week or so. I will not suggest a Senior Center to her, do not want to break NC for now. She will only try to make me feel guilty for my saying NO and try to make me take on the responsibility for her. Maybe that is why the other 3 children do not visit except once or twice a year and live far away from her.

I realize that I allowed these abusers into my life (with exception of family) Maybe it was that I was so conditioned to the more heinous
abusers that I overlooked them or thought they were inoffensive. NOT SO! They are just covert. Wore disguised. Did things "in the name of love" but love had nothing to do with it. They just wanted what they wanted and tried to suck me dry like Ladeska says. They were like spiders. No wonder I hate spiders, I used to watch spiders when I was a child. Spiders catch prey in their webs, bite their prey to paralyse them, then spin their "silken" thread
around their prey for a later feast (that is if they aren't hungry and don't feed on them on the spot!)or use them as breeding grounds for their young (some spiders do that, I believe). So I was just a butterfly caught in spiders webs. I am going to learn to be a "warrior" again! At one time, I think I was one, but let my guard down or was weakened.

Not any more! And that is what I am going to learn to say to abusers after I learn to recognize them or intuit them...NO MORE! I AM WISE TO YOU AND YOUR KIND! It will take time and learning BUT I LOVE LEARNING!

((((((((((Sleepless, Bonita, EVERYONE on this site!))))))))))))

Red

Just wish sites like this were available when I learned about sexual and physical abusers! About twenty years ago!

October 23, 2006
4:17 am
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bonita1
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(((((((hugs back at ya'))))))

You are right. You shouldn't break the No Contact. BTW you already are a warrior. No doubt in my mind!!

~~bonita 😀

P.S. Will talk to you again next weekend. Have a peaceful and stress-free week!!!

October 23, 2006
6:40 am
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sleepless in uk
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Way to go Red

October 25, 2006
8:56 pm
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MELANY
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I BEEN FOR THE PAST 3 YRS WITH AN ABUS

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