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**clownface.... need your help!!****
December 1, 2006
5:38 pm
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cyndra820
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Our last major fight was on 4 September. I had said something that really angered and hurt him. I was really filled with anger about how things were going and I let him have it one night. We didn't talk for almost a month.

Something made me type in codependence in Google and I fit the profile. After reading that I broke up with him and started my recovery. So, I'm a newbie to this. I admit it and don't know when I have something helpful or valid to say.

You have a good night too.

December 1, 2006
10:46 pm
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needtoheal
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Clown~

How are you? I have been thinking about you and wondering how your night has been going....

I just got home from work.. I went to the bookstore and I could not find that book you had suggested..

Keep us posted....

Cyndra-- I have been thinking about what you had said to me earlier... Decide why do I feel the need to keep in contact with pondscum... That is a good question...

As soon as he got off of work, he called. I really did not have much to say to him. He asked me how was my day even though he had called me only two hours earlier... He then put me on hold to take another call and it really annoyed me... so I hung up... Whenever I have tried to call him and he was on the phone he NEVER clicks over to talk to me... EVER... I did not say anything to him about it because for some reason I was thinking that maybe he wanted to get a reaction out of me.... He called me right back..He asked me or "you have the boys this weekend?" and I said that I do.. He paused for a little while and then He made some comment "You know you sweat it"... What kind of comment is that? Boy was he reaching for conversation.. So I ended the conversation telling him that I had to go to work... He said that I could call him while I was on break.. but I did not call him...

My girlfriend at work whose brother killed himself told me that her boyfriend treated her terribly during this tragedy.. She then said that she deserves better and I agreed.. Then I thought about you Cyndra and what you wrote to me about how we are still hung up on men that are not treating us the way in which we fully deserve to be treated...

Thank you for talking...

December 2, 2006
9:08 am
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needtoheal
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I called him after I got out of work but he did not answer.. I turned off my cell phone..

This morning I kept my cell phone off.. He called my house phone (weekend free minutes) at 8:58--two minutes before he starts work.. I did not answer.. He left a message saying good morning.. and that he was at work but will talk to me later and to have a good day....

Just making myself unavailable... I was lurking over on the Charmer thread .... if a person is toxic then why is it that we still look to get poisoned....

December 2, 2006
9:35 am
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needtoheal
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Good morning girls... (did not mean to be rude before and not say good morning...)

This is so funny---

My neighbors have two light up animated reindeer in their yard.. Mandy's hair stood straight up and she was growling at them.....

December 2, 2006
10:47 am
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cyndra820
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Hi Need and Clown, how are you doing this morning?

My morning was interesting. I stayed up late last night watching movies. I watched The 13th Warrior with Antonio Benderra (good if a bit gory) and The DaVincci Code. I got to bed after 1am.

My youngest cat decided she wanted to wake me up because I didn't get up to feed her. She's on my bed and crying.

Oh, the interesting part! Since I've been lurking on the Charmer thread I've thought alot about how FIB treated me and some of the EXTREMELY valid points Ladeska made.

The man I loved NEVER existed. I created him. I gave him the information he needed to become what I wanted in a partner. That lasted about a year. After that year it was sheer hell. I couldn't get what I wanted because, in truth, he was never giving it to me. Boy, did that one hurt!

I was so desperate to be loved I allowed myself to be treated like shit for a year. I didn't have any of my needs met emotionally or physically. I settled for crumbs when I deserve a mean!!

So, where do I go from here? I haven't a clue. I'm learnnig. So being alone is the best thing for me while I heal and begin to recover. But, oh the agony!!!

My threapist asked me why do I keep looking for good in a person who has shown me he has no redeemable qualities. The answer is because I don't want to believe that he's all bad. I couldn't have had the wool pulled over my eyes to that degree, could I?

I am forgiving myself for my mistakes, picking myself up, dusting myself off and making note. I don't want to do this again. The only way to NOT do it again is to learn what led me there in the first place.

Need~ You'll answer the questions about PS when you are ready. I can point things out to you, but you will address them when you are ready.

Mandy's reaction is pure terrier. I remember when I brought my Scottie home she growled at my oldest cat and charged him. It's what they do.

Clown~ Okay, we want details. You've been gone and I KNOW you had fun, but with whom? LOL

Okay, ladies. I'm off to make breakfast, go to my Chinese class, and then to dinner with my mother. Have a great day. I'll try to check in with you tonight.

Love,

Cyndra

December 2, 2006
10:51 am
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needtoheal
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OK...CLown~~~ SPILL!!!!!

December 2, 2006
10:53 am
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cyndra820
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My typing!! I meant I deserve a meal. LOL

December 2, 2006
11:18 am
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needtoheal
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Cyndra....LOL!!

I agree with you .. He is not real.. I created him in my head.. He has not been able to come close to meeting my needs emotionally and physically...
THis has been ongoing for over 4 years...

We are learning girls.. We are growing and we have opened up our eyes... We all know that we deserve better...

My mother just called me and told me that my brother broke up with his fiancee. She was not willing to be with "his kids"... Interesting... remember Cyndra that I told you that he was not speaking to me after I told him that I could not watch his kids one night... Now he is staying with my parents because he does not have anywhere else to go.... I guess he thought that things would change between them because he knew before moving into her apartment and getting engaged that she does not get along with children....

We all live and learn....

Tonight I am taking the kids with me to see my niece perform in the Nutcracker at the local university..

I will check back in later...

love ya

NEEd

December 2, 2006
5:10 pm
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needtoheal
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I have lost more weight...I just got back from the store.. Had to return the pants that I bought yesterday because they were way TOO BIG on me... So I went down 2 sizes since September..

I was so tired last night that I fell asleep with my bedroom light on...
Cannot shake this daytime sleepiness..

I really do not feel like going to this performance tonight.. but I have no choice.. My parents paid for the tickets so I will just have to go...

Just wondering how everyone is doing.. Have not heard from you CLOWN... I am anxiously waiting to hear how your night went last night..... SPILL!!!!!

I will check back later after the performance...

Love to you both
--NEED--

December 2, 2006
7:24 pm
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cyndra820
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Hi Need and Clown,

Just checking to see what you two have been up to.

Clown has mysteriously disappeared. Must have been a heck of a Friday!!!

Need, I'm sorry you don't feel like going to the Nutcracker. Try to enjoy it. Maybe the boys will be too frisky and you have to leave.

I look forward to the day when we all no longer do things we don't want to, or don't feel up to. *sigh*

I'm off to dinner and then socializing with some of family friends who I'm not fond of. Holiday obligations is what my mother calls them.

Until tomorrow!!

Love y'all!!

December 2, 2006
9:56 pm
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needtoheal
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Hi girls!!

CLOWN... what a Friday night indeed!!

THe Nutcracker was good.. I am glad that I did go... The boys were great.. Jake fell asleep with his head on my shoulder for the second act..

Cyndra-- Shouldn't I be the one who is allergic to CARROTS!! lol

I am glad that GG posted.. I was so worried about her...

Love ya girls!!

December 3, 2006
12:13 am
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clownface
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Oh MY GOD!!! I'm living like a man! Dating two people at once!!!

Okay, I'm gonna SPILL!!

LM was wonderful last night. We went to dinner, then shopping at the mall, took the new Christmas tree to my house and then we went to the late James Bond movie. I had a blast. Even kissed him passionately when he brought me home!!! Yes, I do mean PASSIONATELY......

He asked me to call him today, but I do not call men. They have to call me. I have not talked to him all day today (sat) but he will call tomorrow. Need-this is what I am doing so as not to appear too available.

Then KH calls me at 4:00 AM then again at 4:30. And yet again at 7:30, finally I answer him at 7:45. He wants to go to breakfast. To make a long story short, I've been with him all day. Purely patonic, no lovely dovey stuff. Couldn't go there. He keeps saying things like, "If we put this thing back together, then I want to take my green leather Lazy-boy chair to your house." I don't respond with anything.

Now here's the sticky part. They're both coming to my daughter's wedding on the 16th. Neither is going to sit with me on the parents row. KH says he is not staying for the dinner/reception, so that is good.

I am going to go with LM to the Christmas party on the 9th. I know KH is going to want to do something that night as well.

So is it okay to go out with two men at the same time? I have nothing that ties me to either man exclusively. I don't feel like I am doing anything wrong. Biggest challenge is juggling the time thingy.

Gosh, I hope you all are still up.

LM has a future. KH is a dead end!! I am so excited! I think I have met a nice man who, at first blush, might be a keeper.

Love to all,
~Clown (better known as HOT LIPS)

December 3, 2006
12:42 am
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needtoheal
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LOL---- You go girl!!

KH-- he called you at 4 in the morning....?

He can keep his leather lazy-boy chair at his house!!!

Been waiting for you to respond...

December 3, 2006
12:44 am
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needtoheal
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I would just consider yourself dating only one man... LM!

December 3, 2006
12:47 am
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needtoheal
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Clown--

Could not find that book... what is the title again? Men who Love Bitches??

December 3, 2006
12:49 am
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needtoheal
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I hope that you are still up...

I might have just missed you

I am sure you have to be exhausted...

Geesh-- I was reading about Ma Strong kissing someone in a parking lot and now you ... hot lips !!!

Now you got me remembering the studman nights!!!

December 3, 2006
1:01 am
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needtoheal
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with that said, I am going to get some rest...

Hope to chat with you both soon...

December 3, 2006
1:06 am
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I'm still up!

December 3, 2006
1:14 am
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Thanks, Need! You really do make me LOL.

Okay, the book I insist you get and read is:

WHY MEN LOVE BITCHES-SHERRY ARGOV
~A Woman's guide to Holding her own in a relationship.

Your'e right, I am only seeing one man b/c KH said that we were Ka-put just the other day. Of course, he is driving me nuts now. Funny how that works, isn't it? He keeps asking me what I want for Christmas. I say I don't want anything. Last year he got a Past, Present, Future diamond necklace, yr before a diamond tennis braclet, yr before a special watch, etc. Now he is trying to buy his way back in.

So what is up with PS?

December 3, 2006
7:59 am
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cyndra820
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Good morning ladies!!

Need~ Glad you and the boys had a nice time.

Clown~ I'm sure you are still abed as it is 8:00am EST.

I agree with Need that you are only dating one man. KH did say things were kaput and that you weren't exclusive. Plus you see him as a dead end and rightfully so.

About the not calling thing. I understand that you do not call men, BUT you do have to give them feedback to encourage them. Not making yourself available all the time is fine, but not reciprocating when he asked you to do something doesn't. It seems a little manipulative. I know you aren't trying to do that, but you have to be fair. It seems a little sexist too.

I know they like to do MOST of the persuing, but they have to know you are interested. Passionate kisses are nice, but a little effort goes a long way.

Just something to think about, okay?

It does sound like KH is trying to buy his way in. The next time he asks you what you want for Christmas tell him peace of mind. If he presses for additional information tell him you want a man who treats you with respect and honors you. Who treats you like the precious gem you are. Then say you haven't had it in a VERY long time and leave it at that. If he starts a whine, bitch, moan session just stare at him like he's grown a third head. He's showing you who he is.

Okay, going back into the cave. Have a great day.

December 3, 2006
8:58 am
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needtoheal
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Cyndra--

sorry to hear that you are going back to the cave.. but I respect your decision and I hope that you have a great day....

How was dinner last night?
How's your mom?

CLown--

sorry I missed you last night.. I thought that you were gone and I turned off the computer too soon....

I slept alright but dreaming about studman helped!! lol

Thanks for the title of the book... I will have to see if Barnes & Nobles has it in stock..

As far as pondscum, I was elusive with him yesterday..
Like I mentioned, I had the cell phone turned off in the morning.. and he called the house phone two minutes before he started work to say good morning...

I left a message for him a few hours later just to say good morning and talk to him whenever....

He called later in the afternoon.. I told him that I just got up and got a shower.. He asked me if I worked overnight on Friday and I told him no that I got out at 10pm and had called him.. He said that he went to bed early.. I guess he wanted to know why I was so tired if I did not work overnight.. He asked me what did I do after work and I said not much really...

He went to a suprise birthday party for his boss last night. He said that he would call me later but I turned off the cell phone and I knew that he would not call..

Today my mother is coming over with my nephew so he can play with the boys.. They are going to help me rake the leaves..

Hope all is well.....

December 3, 2006
12:56 pm
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Need~ I just meant that I was going to retreat after making such a statement to Clown. Not going into a cave, really.

Glad you have some "help" with raking the leaves. I don't have many trees so I didn't have that man to rake. However, with the wind and my neighbors trees I've gotten some more. I'll be out later today.

Dinner was nice. Visiting with the friends wasn't so bad this time around. Another woman and her daughter showed up. Me and the daughter hid out with our glasses of wine.

Clown~ I hope all is well. Glad you got a tree. With two cats I won't get one. The youngest, who is ten, is a riot. She still climbs into the basement ceiling in my laundry room. No trees here.

December 3, 2006
1:25 pm
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needtoheal
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Cyndra & Clown--

Hey girls.. I cannot shake this daytime sleepiness... I didn't help with the leaves but I did do some laundry and straightening up around the house...
I have to go food shopping.. I just feel so sluggish.. but I will manage.. Maybe I am just so relaxed than I have been in a long time...

I don't know what I am going to do about a Christmas tree.. Mandy is so crazy.. Last year I didn't have a tree because I was staying at my parent's house because I had the cortisone shots in my spine..
We left a note at my house for Santa so that he knew that the boys were at Grandma and Pop's house....

Cyndra-- I have been doing a lot of thinking about the pondscum situation.. I don't even feel like talking to him today.. The more I think about it he really is just an illusion and a convenience for me too.. He cannot even be a full-time boyfriend because he could not even be here when the kids are here with me...

Anyway, hope all is well with you both... I will check back later....

(((Cyndra)))

(((CLown)))

December 3, 2006
7:50 pm
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needtoheal
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Just checking in with you Cyndra and HOT LIPS CLOWNFACE!!!!!

December 3, 2006
9:59 pm
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Hey Girls!

Cyn---don't worry, I appreciate your feedback. I should have clarified my statement as to say that I won't pursue men. If they call me, ask me to call them back, then of course, I do. In fact, I just called LM (on my own iniative) and he DID seem really glad that I called! Good advice--need to let them see some encouragement!

I did not realize that you had broken up with FIB so recent as Oct. You seem to be dealing with this really well, although I am sure it was difficult in the beginning. It always is. I admire your strength to see things how things really are.

Need~ How 'bout that PS? Do you think he is willing or capable of changing his behaviors to make your relationship work? Are there changes you need to make as well? Just a thought....

KH was here all day. I still am unable to relinguish my ties with him. Insecurity, habit, fear--I'm not sure. We had a very frank discussion today. I expressed my desrie to continue to grow as an individual and become stronger (co-dep issues.) He supports me in this effort, even if it means that we do not "work out."

I do feel badly for him b/c he is looking to me for support of his retirement. I can't be held responsible though for that. He has created the situaton. So disrespectful of me in the past, horribly so. Yet I was so needy, I continued to take it or mask it, b/c I needed to be 'loved' by someone. Cyn, you stated it so eloquently in your posting earlier.

I do hope you guys are still on here! I would love to hear your thoughts/feedback right now!

Hugs~
Clown

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