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Child Support Question-nvr2late
February 27, 2007
7:14 am
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nvr2late
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I don't know if anyone has encountered this..
but my divorce was final Oct 23, 2007. in the agreement, my ex got the house, refinanced it for almost what it was worth to pay me out and keep it.
in the agreement, his brother co-signed for him to do this and I agreed that if his BROTHER moved in, it would not be a change of circumstance.

BUT...now he is having his g/f move in..
so, does this constitute as a change of circumstance? would RENTAL income be something he has to claim to the Child Support agency?

so in 3 months I watch him buy a new truck, 3 snowmobiles, 2 dirt bikes, spend money like there is no tomorrow (I have no idea where he is getting it)....so, would I be correct to call the child support agency...or file something with the court?

please let me know your thoughts, we have 50/50 custody...
I did not receive alimony in the divorce, nor did I receive anything from the house.
and not even 1/2 of our marital bills (I paid my student loan that got my degree while we were married).

and another question, his lawyer was just CUT THROAT...so now that both our lawyers have been released from the case...can I call his lawyer, just for a consulation so he cannot retain her again?

I hope there are some thoughts or experiences on this!

thank you

nvr

February 27, 2007
8:26 am
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Robert123
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Did you mean Oct.23,2006? So he is spending money like there is no tomorrow? It might look like he is living well but all of this stuff he is buying could be on credit.

Its been less than 6 months so I don't know what would be best for you financially. Your attorney would be the person to help you there. In my state, I think you can go back to court any time while the kids are underage.
I don't know that contacting his attorney is such a good idea.
Take care of yourself and your kiddo's while you are recovering from this. Its a trauma that takes time to heal. I went thru it several years ago and still have moments of occasional grief.

February 27, 2007
8:34 am
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nvr2late
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yes, as of Oct 23, 2006...
I would like to not to get an attorney.
because it is something that I would think it cut and dry.
I know most of the stuff is probably on credit, the kids hate the new g/f, but there is nothing I can do about him moving so fast.

but to see him living that good life, while we struggle...

it is hard to take sometimes.

thank you so much for your thoughts!

nvr

February 27, 2007
9:47 am
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hopeful for change
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I do know that usually the cost of what it would take to fight for more, is an extreme cost. And if he has more money to fight, you usually don't come out in the end.

In the state I live in the state offers re-consideration every three years for free.

Alot of people hide incomes etc. - It also goes both ways..lets say you get remarried, okay...then every new truck you get or whatever..he's gonna say he's paying for it with his child support.Or you have so much more money than him.

Its tough I know.

February 27, 2007
10:01 am
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nvr2late
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well...if I go in there myself...with a child support representative, I would think the cost would be minimal?

and yes, I know he has and can hide income.
he is a liar, and would lie through his teeth.

and if I got remarried, I would expect that he would do the same thing to me, in a heartbeat!

I am just fishing for ideas!

thank you!
nvr

February 27, 2007
10:07 am
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readyforachange
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nvr...I don't have experience with this, but I think you need to weigh your options here.

First, you have 50/50 custody, right? Does he pay you a significant amount of support? If so, how much would it increase if you found that he had new income? I'm not even sure that you can look at rental income and add it into the formula. Might be good to do some research about the CS laws in WI.

Second, is taking legal action going to benefit you in the long run, or are you going to spend more fighting this out with lawyers and courts than it is worth?

Third, is taking legal action going to make him vindictive and lash out at your or your kids? You know how he can be...so who would benefit and what are the trade-offs. Sometimes we really want to make them pay, and watch them squirm, but in the long run, they are just more evil and vindictive than we are, so taking the high road is the best option.

Keep us posted!

February 27, 2007
11:30 am
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nvr2late
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Ready, I know you will talk sense into me! No, he does not pay a significant amount of child support.
that is what gets me...I have to pay 1/2 of everything which a trip for my daughter for school was $400! The money he pays does not even pay for 1/4 of my house payment.

so, it is not like I am out squandering $$.

I have to do some research, because I do believe if she is paying him 'rent' that is an income.
but I have to look into that too, I will not say anything to him at all...and you are right, I don't know what he would do with the kids involved...I DO know how he would be.

but he would be the first to do it to me!! I know that for sure!

thank you for your thoughts, I am not taking action and I would not hire a lawyer for this either.

that is not worth it.

nvr

February 27, 2007
9:29 pm
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atalose
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If you were to pursue this it might appear that you are jealous of the new girlfriend and are being vindictive. If the new girl friend is paying him rent, you would need to prove that and if it's 300.00 a month, child support from that would be very minimal at best. I think for the small portion you MIGHT receive if you can prove she is paying him rent would be opening pandoras box for yours and your childrens future with him.
There are going to be battles with him until the children reach adulthood, is this battle really worth what the outcome will be?

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

February 28, 2007
10:52 am
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nvr2late
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atalose,

you are right, I would really open something with that.

I don't want anymore heartache for my kids, nor do I want them to be taught that their mother is vindictive!!!!

and I don't want to be that way either.

you are all right!!! and I am glad I came here before doing anything.

thank goodness for this SITE!!
I do not know what I would do without bouncing thoughts off of other people!!!!

thank you all for being here.

nvr

February 28, 2007
12:12 pm
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nvr2late,

I am no expert on this topic, but it seems to me that if he is paying his share of child support to you as required by the court, and upholding whatever custody agreements you made, that he is upholding his end of the agreement.

Since you had divorced him, it is really not your business how he spends the money. I can almost bet that took out a home equity line when he refinanced and he went out and bought his toys. Sounds like some kind of mid-life crisis for him, a way to sooth the pain, but he still will have to pay for this eventually. That is his problem, really has nothing to do with you. There is little or nothing you can control about how he lives his life, and, from my experience, legal battles are just legal battles, and if you expect to do a legal battle expecting "the right thing" to happen, you may be setting yourself up for disappointment. Legal involvement does not equal fairness.

He has moved on, you have move on. If I were in your shoes, I would want to concentrate on being the best parent and role model for my children. Children are smart and really know what is what. You, not being vindictive, and keeping their dad out of your conversations in any negative way with your time with them would probably be the best gift you could give your children. Far greater than snowmobiles and all that stuff.

February 28, 2007
12:56 pm
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atalose
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nvr2late,

It's so hard I know, the anger and frustration just builds. I am glad you are here it's so good to be able to share with others going through or who have gone through similar situations.

I have been divorced for 9 years and my child support amount has only changed one time since then and that was a 3% cost of living increase. My ex quit his 6 figure a year job to open up his own business which he claims he doesn't draw a regulary salary. So going after him for more money I've been told is just not worth the emotional and financial cost to myself. His wages had to be garnished at the time of the divorce because he was being vindictive. His vindictivness caused him great embarrassment when his company was served with the garnishment papers.
They do themselves in, just give him enough rope and see what happens.
He's living on credit by buying material things to use as a temp way to make himself happy. It sounds like he's jumped into another relationship right away and you knew what's going to happen there, rebounds almost never work out. So he's pullling more and more rope trying to run away from issues or the fact he's divorced, it will all catch up to him, you wait and see.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

February 28, 2007
1:08 pm
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truthBtold
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nvr2late,

I'm confused.

In your opening post you said: "he got the house and refinanced it for almost what it was worth to pay you out."

But then you said later in that same post that you did not receive anything from the house.

Maybe I'm just missing something here.

February 28, 2007
2:39 pm
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nvr2late
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atalose,
you are right...he is going to hang himself, I know how these things end up...I don't want to create more chaos in my kids lives.

that is why I was asking the questions, before I did anything or thought anymore about it.
I wanted the honest answers!
and I would imagine he would just hide whatever he was doing or how he was getting his money.

truthBtold....
yes, that was kind of confusing...
ok, so he refinanced the house to buy me out with a settlement.
he had me kicked out of the house with nothing...hid the kids from me...and left me homeless...so getting NOTHING out of the house, meant not a physical thing.

I got my clothes and he got everything else...so, I am sorry that I was jumping all over the place!

gracenotes...you are right!
that is so true, what I give my kids is much more than the THINGS that they get from him.
they do understand that he has problems, and I do need to move on.
which I am working on...they do see a strong mother.

I am really really glad for all the insight here!
it really has opened my eyes!!!
I cannot thank you enough!
nvr

March 2, 2007
9:19 pm
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readyforachange
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nvr...have you decided to pursue anything, or just let it be?

March 2, 2007
10:54 pm
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"so he refinanced the house to buy me out with a settlement"

So did you receive that settlement?

March 3, 2007
2:43 am
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hi nvr

I'm in Ca. I'll share what's happened in my case, hopefully it'll shed some light for you, kuz child support is really a complex issue.

He did not claim his live-in girlfriend on the income and expense declaration. I couldn't prove she lived with him. I would have had to have the kids testify. So that income and the fact that she was sharing bills- sucked to be me.

he had a photography business. I couldn't prove how much he was making. So that income, sucked to be me.

Then he got married. You bet he claimed THAT income! Turns out that her income cannot be considered for his child support, kuz she is not responsible for my kids. But, her income is used to determine his tax liability, so child support went down by let's see- about 16%. And, he does not have to claim her three kids as dependents for child support purposes. But he gets them for tax purposes. he married into some major money, to top it off.

child support services handles my case. If there is a change in income of only 50 dollars per month, you can file for a change. But the hassle of dealing with an asshole is unbelievable.

My ex would not fill out the income and expense declaration, so support services finally went to social security to get his income. Then they filed on him, and he responded with "new spouse income" which lowered support he owed to me.

My ex monster continuously tries to get more visitation. More visitation means lower child support. so every year, he files for more visitation. We've gone through this shit every year since 1997.

Periodically, support services conducts a review, where you both have to fill out the income and expense declarations.

Regarding "living the high life" - my ex did the same thing, and then filed bankruptcy. But he got to keep everything. Basically, he stole it. Nobody cared.

My ex is supposed to pay half of all medical/dental, but he doesn't. I have to take him to court and get a court order for a dollar amount and then, child support services will enforce. It's a game with him. Nobody punishes him for this. he just claims he never got the reciepts I send him, and never saw a notice to pick up certified mail at the post office.

It's gonna take some time to let all this go. Try not to let it eat at ya. That's hard. Really hard.

best of luck to you

free

March 3, 2007
6:35 am
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ready, I have not decided anything, and after reading a lot of this...I probably won't...that is why I came here first!!!

Loralei..yes, I did get that settlement, and maybe I am angry about that? I sure did not even get 50/50 since his lawyer's objective was to 'starve me out'...
by spending more and more of my $$ and not charging him anymore.
it was a losing battle.

free...you are right...dealing with an asshole is truly a hassle.
I am not trying to keep this thing hanging out there for years and year!
believe me, I have more important things to do..you need to get what you deserve, I know that he will hide the money somehow..or do anything to make sure I see nothing.

it is a difficult thing for me to watch..I suppose..but as they say, the most important things in life aren't THINGS, and he has lost the respect of his children.

that is what is going to hurt in the end!!!

he is paying the support that he was ordered to pay (garnished, or I would not see that, I am sure) and he is taking the kids 50/50...although he is not with them when they are there...another hard thing for me to see.

I cannot tell you how much your advice means to me, to process before doing something foolish
thank you all!

nvr

March 3, 2007
9:11 am
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nvr...that's what is great about this site! You can come here to think things through before you go and do something you're not sure is the right thing to do. I'm glad you did, because I'm not sure you would have gained anything by pursuing this. I gave in to so many financial battles in my divorce because the things that were important to me weren't material. They still aren't. My kids got to stay in the house they had grown up in, and I got primary custody. He sees them the minimum amount of time the state will allow, and he can't even handle that. He doesn't pay me for 50% of their medical/dental/extracurricular like he is supposed to. The first 3 months after the divorce, he hassled me about every penny I spent for those things, and I had to spend more in legal fees to recover it. So, I don't even give him the receipts any more. It's not worth the battle. He still finds other things to bitch at me about, but every little thing I chose not to fight with him about makes my life more peaceful. To me, it's worth it.

And, the respect of your children is by far the most important thing. My kids, almost 17 and 13, tell me things all the time that make me know I made the right decision. That things are better now that we are not together, that I am the better parent, that their dad is immature, that they know they will get rules and boundaries from me but not from him. I'm not their best friend by any means, but they know I am a parent. That makes it all worth it, even though sometimes I feel like it's an uphill battle to raise two teenagers when their father is fighting against me.

So...hang in there. Let him go into debt up to his eyeballs, flaunt money he doesn't have, and use other women like toys. You do not want to be a part of that, and you made the right decision by getting away from him. Celebrate that, and your freedom!!!!

March 4, 2007
7:57 am
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nvr2late
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ready! you are so right...the respect of my children is what is important..they KNOW what he is like...they are not really sure they like him...and of course the battle is something not worth fighting.

and it is the great thing about this site, everyone has so much experience!
it helps to hear how things came out for everyone so I can gauge the importance.

and yes, let him use women like toys...and spend $$ he does not have! I don't have to worry about it anymore and I don't want to be a woman that is used!!!

here is to freedom...from abuse, from him defeating my self-esteem...from financial problems he always created!!!
here is to peace!!

thank you all...you open my eyes!

nvr

March 7, 2007
6:23 am
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well...one more point...
I went to the court order co-parent counselor yesterday to discuss my concerns with her about the kids...then we will have a joint meeting with my ex and me and her.

I have to wonder where she was during the court proceedings! she pegged him to a T and told me that with all the abuse that he did to me during the divorce that she would have recommended him not see the kids for awhile!
well, water under the bridge...we need to move on from there.

so, the concerns about the kids...the damage that has been done to the kids by him, and it was by him!
and his ignoring what is going on, hopefully we can bring someone in that will make him listen!

she did say that she thought that his lawyer was out to 'get' me, she did not understand why the courts let that go on like they did.
she saw that I was trying to get help for the kids, and he would stop any attempt at that. she thinks he is not focusing at all on the kids. DUH!!!!
it was all about $$ for him!

so, moving on from that...we now have to figure out a way to deal with the kids...in a healthy manner...and hopefully make him see that what he is doing is really scaring the kids.
we will see what happens with that!

on a better note...a girlfriend and I and her 2 kids and mine are going to Disney in May!! the deal was too good to pass up!
one of those timeshare things...but we will make it work!

so, here is to great memories and family vacations that he would never take with us!!!!

nvr

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