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Can't sleep
November 13, 2004
5:36 am
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jwt
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It's 3:30 in the morning and I am wide awake with all of my problems on my mind. I thought it might help to just write it all down and see if anyone has another perspective.

A couple of weeks ago my wife and I went to see our 23 year-old daughter. She lives so far away, in another state ... a 23-hour drive from us. We spent the entire visit helping her move to a new basement apartment and buying her things for her new place.

We really couldn't afford the trip. But, we really wanted to see her and see where she is living.

She had a mental breakdown two years ago. She claimed that she was addicted to oxycoden but the hospital couldn't find any trace of drugs. We learned that she had been telling everyone outrageous lies about her life and about us. For example, she told people that she had a brain tumor and had only weeks to live. She told people that she was going to school on a full scholarship and that we had abandoned her. The truth was that we had spent over $80,000, our entire life savings, to send her to this out-of-state school and to pay her living expenses while she was there.

We forced her to go to counseling right after her breakdown. After the initial visits, the doctor was thinking that she might be bipolar. But, she soon quit going to the counselor and refuses to go back. She says that it is a total waste of time and that her problems are physical.

We wanted her to take a break from college, stay home, go to counseling and get herself back together. She refused and went back to college on her own. She took out a bunch of student loans while she was there. Now, we are receiving 2-3 calls or letters every day from collection agencies trying to contact her.

She says that she now has her Master's Degree but we not even sure that she has finished her Bachelor's Degree. She says she is going to school out there to get certified to teach high school. It looks like she does have a job there teaching kindergarten at a private fundamentalist Christian school. But, we don't think the job pays very much or that she has any money to pay her loans.

She seldom communicates with us unless she needs money. We paid for her cell phone but she doesn't want to "waste" her minutes talking to us. We send her emails and she never replies unless she needs something.

She gets mad that we open the collection letters that come to our house. We have given her the information and asked her to contact these people and take responsibility for the situation. But, she won't contact them. I don't know if she is not taking it seriously or is just trying to avoid them.

We have given SallieMae her new address and telephone number. We hope this will stop them from contacting us. Another collection agency that appears to be working for the University lied and misrepresented themselves to us. I really don't feel much of a moral responsibility to help them contact her. Today, we received a telephone call for her from another company that sounds like a collection agency. We emailed that telephone number to her but really don't expect her to contact them either.

Even though she took out the loans against our wishes, I think I would probably pay her loans for her if I could afford it. But, we are living paycheck to paycheck and have only $170 in our savings account. I earn good money and work about 70 hours a week. My wife has a job she loves teaching preschool but it doesn't pay very much. We are current on our bills but it just gets harder for us every month. I fear that someday soon we may have some unexpected expenses and collection agencies after us.

I worry so much about our daughter. She is our only child and we love her so much. After all of the lies, we don't know what to believe. With all of the money we have spent for her and her total lack of affection for us, we really feel like we are just being used. With all of problems she has had with people everywhere she has lived, we wonder if this move far away is just an attempt to run away from her problems.

I am so tired of worrying about our bills and worrying about our daughter. Some of you may remember my past threads. My marriage is still totally dysfunctional. And, I still listen to Elvira, the classic narcissist and total nut case; tell me every day that she loves me before she goes home to her new husband.

My life is a total mess.

November 13, 2004
8:09 am
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mamacinnamon
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We had a similar situation w/ our daughter. She was only in high school tho. We moved to my home town and she had this one lady believing she had never seen the inside of a church. One day at a prayer vidual at the school (this was years ago) the lady met my husband. Figured out my child had made us out to be just horrible parents. Still don't know why other than just wanted attention.

As for you paying all her bills. DON"T! I have a sister that my mom pays for and caters to and she is a total mess. No responsibility at all. Now she chose to be a single mom of twins and is even worse. Charged 10,000 on her credit card and mom gave her the money to pay it off. A year later has 15,000 on the credit cards and mom bailed her out again. She has ruined her credit just coz she doesn't feel like paying her bills on time. Won't clean her house. She's a mess. But I keep tellin mom that she is hurting her instead of helping her. She has no sense of responsibility. Asked mom what she thought my sister was gonna do after she dies coz I'm NOT picking up her problems or expenses. We barely live above poverty level ourselves, but don't mind. God provides us enough to pay our bills. My hubby works 7 nights a week and he will not cater to my sis. She totally takes advantage of everybody she can.

Doesn't sound like your daughter will stand on her own till you make her. Why should she; she's got you doing all the work and she's having all the fun.

November 13, 2004
9:03 am
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jwt
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I have no idea what my daughter is telling people about us. If history is any indication, I can guess.

Abandonment is a big part of her theme. Just before her breakdown, she was living with another family in our hometown during her summer break from school. She told them that we had abandoned her and they were supporting her. She told us that she was going to summer school and we were sending her money for that. We were always asking her to come home for a visit and she was always too "busy" at school. It still breaks my heart to know that she was often here in town.

Part of her brain tumor/injury fantasy was that she was involved in a serious car accident where a fantasy friend died in front of her eyes. She told people that she received a brain injury in the fantasy accident and was put in a Chicago hospital. Her story included a visit from me in the hospital where I told her that we didn't care about her and she was on her own.

She came back to this family after being released from the fantasy hospital with a huge bandage on her neck. She said it protected a tube that was draining fluid from her brain. This family even paid for neurologists to treat her because her parents had abandoned her. I guess she must have given the doctor a different story because there was absolutely nothing under that bandage.

That family eventually became suspicious of her stories. We had invited her to come to our lake condo to spend the 4th of July weekend. She even said that she might bring her boyfriend, who we now know never existed. We received a call from her at the last minute. She said that the "boyfriend" had been in an accident and had broken his arm. She wouldn't be able to come see us. It turned out that she had been at this family’s home for 2 weeks. That was when her stories began to unravel with the family. The things she was telling them just didn't seem to match reality. Out of the blue, we receive a call from them to ask us about the brain injury, abandonment and full scholarship stories. We were floored because we had believed what she had been telling us. We also knew that our daughter had some serious problems.

We have been frustrated in efforts to learn the facts because our daughter is legally an adult. We have been denied information by her school, doctors and creditors.

I don't understand why our daughter made up all these stories about how we are such awful parents. She was never abused and we gave her everything she ever wanted, everything we had. I guess we gave her too much and didn’t say no when we should have.

Part of me thinks she tells these stories to con people into giving her money. And, part of me thinks that she tell stories because she is sick.

It doesn't really matter. I will love her no matter what. I don't want her out on the street. We will continue to pay her medical bills until she is no longer covered by our insurance when she turns 25. We just bought her a bed because we don't want her sleeping on the floor. And, I'm going to give her a really good winter coat for Christmas because she is living in a VERY cold climate and I don't want her to suffer. Her health and welfare is important to me. I won't turn my back on her. But, it is hard sometimes because of everything that has happened and the way she treats us.

She is always in my prayers. There is so little I can do to change the situation. I just pray that someday she will get the help she needs and understand that we love her.

November 13, 2004
9:07 am
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Zinnie
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JWT,

Have you thought any more about having her declared mentally incompetent so you can have her hospitalized for evaluation?

November 13, 2004
10:00 am
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jwt
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Zinnie, I did a lot of research on that about a year ago. We even talked to our attorney about what could be done.

The bottom line is that any attempt to have her committed or to declare her mentally incompetent would likely fail. We would have to prove that she was a danger to herself or to others.

We could prove that she was irresponsible. We could prove that she doesn't tell the truth. We could prove that she had at least one period where she told fantastic stories. But, none of this proves that she is dangerous.

The way our attorney put it ... if this was the standard used by our courts, we could round-up most of our elected officials.

Any efforts to gather enough evidence are further frustrated by her legal standing as an adult. No one can legally talk to us about her personal business. To make matters worse, she is now living 1,500 miles away from us in a state where we know no one.

While she shows her temper and irrationality to us on a routine basis, she can appear entirely reasonable and coherent at the drop of a hat when she decides that it is necessary. She even fooled two different counselors for a while. It's spooky ... like a Jekyll and Hyde transformation.

November 13, 2004
10:04 am
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jwt
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Btw, we did have her hospitalized for evaluation right after her breakdown. The hospital was only allowed to keep her for a few days of evaluation and then released her.

November 16, 2004
12:43 am
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knowitallhater
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I am awake cant sleep, my 21 month old son and husband are asleep, I have so many things running through my mind. I have been with my husband almost 3 years(We have only been married since April). We have really been treated poorly by his family(mostly me and our son). It has finally came to a head, because after two years of disrespect I have finally had enough, and made my husband speak up and now they are making it my fault because we did not say anything before now. He has five siblings, his mother passed 15 years ago and his dad is A Chiroprator who thinks he is god. I finally got the chance to stick up for myself but it is so hard and I hate myself for feeling inferior when I honestly did nothing wrong, I have done plenty wrong in my life not trying to say I am perfect, but in this situation I can honestly say I have done nothing wrong. So why is it so hard to hold my head high?

November 16, 2004
1:34 am
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sewunique
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Hi

If you are still up, move on over to my thread, we are talking. It is too hard when we try to post on several threads; you'll be waiting for aresponse for 15 min or more

Sew

November 16, 2004
1:47 pm
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kathygy
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jwt, It sounds like your daughter is very emotionally disturbed but there is nothing you can do about that. I imagine that's very frustrating. She sounds like a complusive liar. I would not enable her to use you anymore. Let her sleep on the floor, let her be cold in the winter, it might wake her up to take more responsibility for her life. I certainly would not pay any of her bills. She is an adult. Don't ruin your credit rating by taking care of her. Consider it her problem. She will never grow up as long as you continue to take care of her. Time for some tough love.

November 18, 2004
8:49 am
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jwt
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kathygy, I know that our daughter is very emotionally disturbed. It seems to me that is an illness rather than something she can control whenever she decides to "take more responsibility for her life."

I believe it will require more maturity and a serious self-commitment to counseling to get her past her problems. She still says that she doesn’t have a problem and that counseling is a waste of time. I believe that deep down somewhere she knows she has a problem but can’t seem to face it.

My wife argues all the time that she will need to "hit bottom" before she will do anything about her problems. It may be true that what I have done for her has enabled to be irresponsible. My wife is probably right. I just don't want to be the one who pushes her to the bottom.

We really don't do that much for her any more. But, I can't seem to accept the idea that she should be denied medical care, somewhere to sleep other than the floor or a warm coat during the Montana winter. Other than that, she is pretty much on her own.

I know she went through a period where she was a chronic liar. We still don't know if we can believe anything she tells us. Much of what she has told us during the past year or so has proven to be true. However, she still avoids providing proof, when we request it, for a lot of what she says. And, frankly, I don't know what to do about that.

Maybe I have failed to give her the "tough love" that everyone seems to think is so important. But, it doesn't mean that I don't love her.

November 18, 2004
9:59 am
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gypsygirl
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If she is bipolar, she could really believe these stories she is telling. Bipolar people can have delusions like this. In a state of mania, she could be having hallucianations. My family has been going through this with my schizophrenic brother.

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