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Can there really be nice men who won 't hurt me?
June 9, 2006
9:30 pm
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RDE2BHAPPY
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June 9, 2006
9:36 pm
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RDE2BHAPPY
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I have tried eveything lately from internet dating to letting my friends fix me up. Why is it I keep getting the guys that want to be
F_ _ _ buddies to the latest...are you ready for this??? wants to do things to my body and take video and start a web-site!!!
I was so shocked that I was speachless for days until I finally told my friend. I am a middle aged women and is a proffessional. I am freindly and outgoing and I am a romantic. I also like the physical side of a relationship, but what the hell is going out there is this world today!?

June 9, 2006
9:37 pm
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Rasputin
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I believe people - lovers or friends will always hurt us.

The bottom line is: Are we learning and growing not to repeat the same mistakes over and over so that we do not hurt our SO with the same hurt/mistake we did toward him before?

~Ras~

June 9, 2006
9:49 pm
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RD, I have to believe there can be respectful, caring men who won't hurt us or else I would be overcome with despair and hopelessness. I am recovering from my last relationship and not yet up for searching for a new one. I am trying to get my head and heart around the idea that it may be a long wait.

I think the world has changed a lot since we were young women (I am 49) and I am having a hard time getting my bearings.

I wish you all the best with this. At least it sounds like you know where your boundaries are, and that is a good start.

your friend, kroika.

June 9, 2006
10:58 pm
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bonni
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I never thought my husband would ever hurt me. he is a kind, warm, wonderful man. but he hurt me deeply. i trusted him with my heart and i never saw it coming. he didn't do it on purpose, he didn't mean to, he didn't want to. he would give almost anything to take it back. but, he still walked out the door and left me with two small children. he believed he had no choice. i think we just didn't matter enough to have done everything he could to avoid having to leave. he thinks he did and just miscalculated. doesn't matter anymore, does it?

there are lots of truly nice men, like my husband. as long as we open our hearts, i think there is the possibility of pain. today, i believe its inevitable for me, but maybe it does work out for some people. i hope it will for you. i suspect that maybe i just don't get a happily ever after. so, its not always the guy, maybe fate just has it in for some of us. or maybe just because we don't know God's plan, doesn't mean its not perfect. i used to believe that. but my faith is tinier than that mustard seed and getting smaller every day.

bonni

June 9, 2006
11:32 pm
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Anonymous
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Yes, yes, yes!!! There ARE some good, healthy men out there who are worthy of your heart. Unfortunately, most of us must kiss many of the "frogs" before we ever find our "prince". Don't give up! We must keep trying until we get what we need and deserve!

June 10, 2006
4:10 pm
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Or maybe just make em prove non-frogness before they get any kisses.

June 10, 2006
5:00 pm
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Excellent point, WD. Makes good sense to me.

June 10, 2006
6:14 pm
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Rasputin
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LOL

June 10, 2006
10:06 pm
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lables68
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Okay Ladies & gentleman:

I must tell you all that I am not so sure the answer lies there in with the question rather or not we can find a man who will not hurt us? But more with the question of what actually is it we would like out of a relationship?

I am a professional woman approaching what American society considers middle aged. I was with an older aged professional man who after five years decided that he wanted to work on the relationship with his children, and his home he purchased after the second divorce. Which I might add that he abandoned his children 30 years ago and his second wife became head injured after being married to him for 3 years. As I have not seen him for 4 months now, and living in a rural community I do hear through the grapevine that he is making a total drunken fool of himself. You know the drill self-medication and screwing any thing and anyone he can just to prove he truly is the total jerk I became to know and understand. Get this he is 60! Poor guy he will never figure it out or even find a happy medium, and I don't like to generalize. But if you don't get something together by the time you are 60 I am thinking it is pretty much down hill from that point?

Now my first point is this. What red flags did I not see in the begining? He had no relationship with his own flesh and blood and well if a stroke injured woman would not want a man who is a professional. Who would? Not that all men have this uncanny in ability to bond with others. But was the red flags not with us when we met these men? I am so pondering that point myself, and yet I am some what thinking that it has an interconnection with the way my relationship with my own father evolved or did not? As much as I hate to admit it, and as much as I do love my father. He is a good man!

I did find this cool little definition of a new wave of research that we as humans are evolving into. Some of it may make sense to some of us and maybe for others it does not. The one thing I know for sure is that it is not always about us and our in ability to be loved or trust worthy. Maybe we do need to make them prove a non-frogness mentality before we kiss them!

WHY DO WE CARRY A TORCH FOR SO LONG WHEN SOMEONE HAS BROKEN UP WITH US?

NEW SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH EXPLAINS WHY HEARTBREAK HURTS SO MUCH. Someone who leaves you becomes very powerful to your emotional brain. They become powerful simply by being able to inflict so much pain. Being left is perceived by your mammalian brain as an attack upon your personal being. It etches an indelible impression in a primitive part of the brain that acts automatically to protect you. It conditions your mammalian brain to react with fear each time you encounter the person whom it perceives as dangerous to your well being. Acting beneath your conscious awareness, it maintains a constant vigil on your abandoner.

You experience this as being temporarily obsessed with the person. Your nerves are set to 'go off' if you should unexpectedly bump into them later on or see them with a new love. This enduring emotional reactivity is known as 'carrying a torch.' You are confused into thinking that if the pain can last that long and feel so strong, the person must have been very special. But this is not so. You can feel this way over anyone, even someone who had nothing special to offer. It is just your mammalian brain efficiently trying to warn you not to make the same mistake again.

UNRESOLVED ABANDONMENT

Unresolved abandonment - - the source of our insecurities, addictions, compulsions, and distress.

Unresolved abandonment - - the insidious virus invading body mind and soul - - the culprit for the anxiety we are forever trying to self-medicate with food, alcohol, shopping, people and a host of other self defeating behaviors.

Unresolved abandonment - - the roadblock to reaching our potential - - the invisible wound that drains self esteem from within - - the hidden trap that keeps us stuck in patterns of self-sabotage.

Unresolved abandonment - - the chronic insecurity that becomes the scourge of human relationship.

Unresolved abandonment - - the internal barrier to fully connecting to others. Fear short-circuits our attempts to find love - - we struggle to find and keep relationships. We become abandoholics.

Unresolved abandonment - - the elusive grief so many seek therapy for and can't seem to overcome - - an undifferentiated emptiness often mis-diagnosed as depression and inappropriately medicated. Sometimes its stress and agitation are persistent enough to create chemical imbalances that do, in fact, respond to drug therapy.

Unresolved abandonment - - simplistic methods like 'positive thinking' or just going to therapy do not deter it. Programs like Co-dependency, Alanon, and Adult Child have attempted to assuage the erosion of energy and self worth caused by unresolved abandonment. But for all of their positive 'affirmations', they have not been able to address the system of drainage that lies buried within.

Likewise, Alcoholics Anonymous, Alanon, and Over-eaters Anonymous, etc. have been extremely effective in dealing with the addictive and co-addictive problems secondary to abandonment, but are unable to go beyond the symptoms and treat the underlying abandonment wound itself.

Self-help books have tended to have a placebo effect. They offer reasonable enough sounding advice, like "Find happiness from within." But these truisms are easier said than done. Many abandonees feel inadequate when they try to perform them and are not able to "Just let go" and "Move forward."

Unresolved abandonment - - people continue searching for one more tape, one more lecture, one more book that will finally free them. But all of the self-medicating and soothing words in the world will not eradicate the distress, disturbance and dysfunction caused by unresolved abandonment. For that you must go beyond insight. You must take action.

Abandonment survivors need more than symptom management and feel-good relief. They need an approach that facilitates not the illusion of change, but real change.

This can only happen when you realize that the magic bullet is not in any book or program. It is within you. It is your ability to integrate awareness with action.

What is abandoholism? You've heard of food-oholism, work-oholism, shop-oholism and, of course, alcoholism. Now here comes another, most insidious, addictive pattern “ abandon-oholism.

Abandoholism is a tendency to become attracted to unavailable partners. Many abandonment survivors are caught up in this painful pattern.

Abandoholism is similar to the other ‘oholisms, but instead of being addicted to a substance, you’re addicted to the emotional drama of heartbreak. You pursue hard-to-get partners to keep the romantic intensity going, and to keep your body's love-chemicals and stress hormones flowing.

What makes someone an abandoholic?

Abandoholism sets in when you've been hurt so many times that you've come to equate insecurity with love. Unless you are pursuing someone you are insecure about, you don't feel in love.

Conversely, when someone comes along who wants to be with you, that person's availability fails to arouse the required level of insecurity. If you can't feel those yearning, lovesick feelings, then you don't feel attracted, so you keep pursuing unavailable partners.

You become psychobiologically addicted to the high stakes drama of an emotional challenge and the love-chemicals that go with it.

Abandoholism is driven by both fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment.

When you're attracted to someone, it arouses a fear of losing that person. This fear causes you to become clingy and needy. You try to hide your insecurity, but your desperation shows through, causing your partners to lose romantic interest in you. They sense your emotional suction cups aiming straight toward them and it scares them away.

Fear of engulfment is at the opposite end of the spectrum. It occurs when someone is pursuing you and now you are the one pulling back. You feel engulfed by that person's desire to be with you. When fear of engulfment kicks in, you panic. Your feelings shut down. You no longer feel the connection. The panic is about your fear of being engulfed by the other person's emotional expectations of you. You fear that the other person's feelings will pressure you to abandon your own romantic needs.

Fear of engulfment is one of the most common causes for the demise of new relationships, but it is carefully disguised in excuses like: "He just doesn't turn me on." Or "I don't feel any chemistry." Or "She's too nice to hold my interest." Or "I need more of a challenge."

Abandoholics tend to swing back and forth between fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment. You are either pursuing hard-to-get-lovers, or you are feeling turned off by someone who IS interested in you.

What is Abando-phobism?

Abandophobics are so afraid of rejection that they avoid relationships altogether.

Abandophobics act out their fear of abandonment by remaining socially isolated, or by appearing to search for someone, when in fact they are pursuing people who are unattainable, all to avoid the risk of getting attached to a real prospect – someone who might abandon them sooner or later.

There is a little abandophobism in every abandoholic.

For both abandoholics and abandophobics, a negative attraction is more compelling than a positive one.

You only feel attracted when you are in pursuit. You wouldn't join any club who would have you as a member, so you are always reaching for someone out of reach.

How do abandoholism and abandophobism set in?

These patterns may have been cast in childhood. You struggled to get more attention from your parents but you were left feeling unfulfilled, which caused you to doubt your self-worth. Over time, you internalized this craving for approval and you learned to idealize others at your own expense. This became a pattern in your love-relationships.

Now as an adult, you recreate this scenario by giving your love-partners all of your power, elevating them above yourself, recreating those old familiar yearnings you grew accustomed to as a child. Feeling emotionally deprived and "less-than" is what you've come to expect.

Why does the insecurity linger?

Recent scientific research shows that rather than dissipate, fear tends to incubate, gaining intensity over time. Insecurity increases with each romantic rejection, causing you to look to others for something you've become too powerless to give yourself: esteem. When you seek acceptance from a withholding partner, you place yourself in a one-down position, recreating the unequal dynamics you had with your parents or peers. You choreograph this scenario over and over.

Conversely, you are unable to feel anything when someone freely admires or appreciates you.

This abandonment compulsion is insidious. You didn't know it was developing. Until now you didn't have a name for it: Abandoholism is a new concept.

Insecurity is an aphrodisiac. If you are a hard-core abandoholic, you are drawn to a kind of love that is highly combustible. The hottest sex is when you are trying to seduce a hard-to-get lover. Insecurity becomes your favorite aphrodisiac. These intoxicated states are produced when you sense emotional danger – the danger of your lover's propensity to abandon you the minute you get attached.

At the other end of the seesaw, you turn off and shut down when you happen to successfully win someone's love. If your lover succumbs to your charms – heaven forbid – you suddenly feel too comfortable, too sure of him to stay interested. There is not enough challenge to sustain your sexual energy. You interpret your turn-off as his not being right for you.

How about following your gut?

If you are an abandoholic, following your gut is probably what got you into these patterns in the first place. Your gut gets you to pursue someone who makes your heart go pitter pat, not because he is the right one, but because he arouses fear of abandonment. And your gut gets you to avoid someone who is truly trustworthy, because he doesn't press the right insecurity buttons.

Enrich your mind. Follow your wisdom. But until you overcome your abandonment compulsion, don't follow your gut – it will only get you into trouble – because your gut tells you that unavailable people are attractive."

http://www.abandonment.net

lables68

June 10, 2006
11:12 pm
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1lost1
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BRAVO!!!!!

June 11, 2006
3:43 am
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Worried_Dad
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Hi, RDE2BHAPPY:

I completely sympathize with you.

In my opinion, you have had a short string of really bad luck with guys.

I believe that someone like lables68, who is fresh from the experience has a lot to teach all of us who have been recently hurt and are trying to find our ability to trust again.

Men, or Women, who just want F-buddies are really common. There is nothing wrong with that per-se. Everyone gets to decide what level and kind of involvement they want. It is when people lie about who they are and what they are looking for that things get ugly.

I think you are talking about an experience that I have had, and that many people have had. We make friends with someone who leads us to believe that they are looking for intimacy and committed friendship, depth, but then, after we have "compromised" ourselves and invested in the relationship, the pher person reveals that they are really wanting something different than what they first led us to believe. It's the old bait and switch.

The experience you described with the guy who wanted to take videos of you is particularly heinous. I don't think you would have dreamed of dating him if you had known what he had in mind in the first place. He tricked you. And tricking someone who is trying to relate intimately to us is the dirtiest trick in the book. Intimate betrayal.

It is natural for you to feel all kinds of strong emotions after a horrible experience like that. Most Anyone who had been through what you have just been through would feel traumatized. For example, it would be natural and expected if you were experiencing what is called "betrayal trauma" which is one of the worst kinds of trauma.

I think that by coming out and making this post you are actually doing what medicine says is an important step in healing from your experience and preventing it from happening again. That first stepo is just finding someone inside you who can say "This is not right. I deserve better than that. I am better than that."

There are many men who want to have a respectful, loving committed realtionship with a good woman. You just ran into a couple of losers. Don't let those losers rob you of your dignity or your hope. And don't let them define you.

If you have a trusted friend, or sister, or doctor or pastor or counselor, reach out top them for support, because being alone with this kind of thing is a very heavy burden.

Meanwhile, there are some very powerful and wise women here who can explain to you better than I can just how hopeless those guys who hrt you really are. (Men can offer some support, but women seem to do a bit better at supporting their sisters in this kind of thing.)

Stand tall, good woman. Just the fact that you could make a post like this one shows some wonderful things about your mind and your heart.

June 11, 2006
7:47 am
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bonni
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WD,
I think that a man's perspective can be helpful too. I generally find your input very helpful.
bonni

June 11, 2006
11:52 am
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lables68
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Yes WD please allow others to see that we all can and want to trust. So pleas don't discredit your understandings....I think you have shown a wonderful and kind gesture to all of us. I must say not many men have that ability to do that and be authentic in that!

One point that I have found, and I must take full responsibility for allowing myself to be treated so disrespectfully. At the same time understanding how helpless and abusive those people are who become reckless with others.

One big clue for me is that my ex was not divorced, and even though most feel that is a small but major detail in ones life. I met a man who was and will always be emotionally unavailable. Fact some people live their whole life in this type of destruction....and feel comfortable with that style of living.

Since this whole situation I have sat back and just embraced my whole suffering; when it first happened I thought it was suffering. The truth is that this man is down a total road of destruction. He is following hopeless ideas of life and monies, and that is okay for him because it works. I did try to trick myself into being and believing I was someone else. I was living in a falsehood of my life! All the while loosing my self worth; which maybe the reason I was so attracted to a man who is emotionally unavailable.

The truth is we all have different lives and ideas of what we would like, and some of us pray to the Lord everyday in hope that he will deliver us from all the evil doers and wicked ones.

The reality is that we all have choices....and WD hit the nail on the head. So many times, and I am as guilty of this as any other in the world. I get into a relationship and I don't make a man prove his non-frogness. Which I feel comes from understanding ones self, and our standards of ourselves. It takes a ton of soul searching! But the honest truth is that it is do able.

One lesson I learned is that yes we are all products of our envrionments; we certainly don't have to become our environments. I was raised with two great parent's, and I love them dearly. But the down side of their parenting was an Authoritarian approach. Basically the concept of this style of parenting is the children have a tough time determining how to make choices and have difficulty using problem solving skills because we are always told what to do. At least that was my out come!

But what worked for me was when each time my life brought about suffering and sadness I took into consideration that I am partially responsible for my choices. Now as I have grown and I will grow every day in my life! I have found to learn to like myself and take care of me, and not worry so much about the other person who has been reckless with my life and love. Cause you know what comes around goes aroun in life.

So with my last suffering I sat back and said okay what am I doing towards myself and how can I work with this. I do get counseling and am looking at how this situation has been a catalyst for bringing me down a better and more graceful road. One filled with love and trust....and yes it is a victory lap for me. And I shall never forget where the suffering has brought me...wrapped with love and trust and truthfulness. Now how can it get much better than that.

hugs

June 11, 2006
4:23 pm
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RDE2BHAPPY
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Thanks all...I have been trying to make connections with supportive people once I could verbalize it. I was embaressed. I am a smart woman and I thought how could I have not seen this? One thing is I am new to the area. I moved 1300 mi from my home to be where I always thought I wanted to live. I have made many friends. One of them is the one that introduced us. So nit just goes to show you how we really don't know people at all.
That's very much WD it is nice to hear from a man. What is funny is your user name reminds me of something I told one of these guys...I asked how they would feel if it were their daughter that was being treated like this? They didn't get it or they did not want to see it from that perspective. Right now i want to isolate myself from everyone. I feel very stupid and sleazy. I am so tired of being by myself that I think ...I know ...I am pushing to hard. BUT thank God I am able to stand back and say I deserve soooo much more. God, I just want to know when???

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