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Can I Vent??? (read only if you have patience or a strong constitution)
August 29, 2004
11:15 am
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InPainZHT
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Can I vent people? I am right now feeling something close to anger with a smattering of rejection, and since I know a lot of you kind, wonderful people have already heard my story ad nauseum, i'd like permission to assemble a list of everything I can think of that HER ex (that she just dumped me for to go back to) has done in the time they are together; in so doing so, I'd like for you to see just why I am so confused and having the question echo around in my brain, "JUST WHAT IN THE DEVIL IS GOING ON HERE???"

I am asking permission in order not to get sighs, yawns, and "here we go again"'s which I do not want to cause in your time here on this forum.

I feel guilty that all this background garbage is filling my mind just minutes before I head off to church.

God bless you people, I hope you are likewise spending time with God and godly people, it really helps.

InPain
(b**chfest list to follow...)

August 29, 2004
12:41 pm
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inPain, its good to vent, and I am sure your mind is filled with, why did she leave me for him.....just know that its "her" with the issues, not you, and you cannot change her...its just going to take time, b4 you feel better. Its good that you are keeping GOD in your life, it helps me alot. Don't feel guilty about the background garbage filling your mind, you have feelings, so feel them. Your going thru alot of pain right now......I do hope you feel better after church. Please come back and post again. You are not alone.....(((hugs from camer))))

August 29, 2004
12:59 pm
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lam
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InPain, vent away! It may help you figure out some things as you put your thoughts into words. Even if you don't get the answer to "why" at the very least you'll be purging yourself of some of the anger you're feeling, which is only a good thing. Better than keeping it in until you blow, as I have the bad habit of doing. Mainly because I feel that people don't really want to hear it, that I'll get the sighs, yawns and here we go agains that you spoke of. It sounds as though you're progressing through the stages of your loss and that's positive, as well as all the other positives you are doing to take care of yourself, going to church, talking with friends/family, posting here, etc. Alot of us here know exactly what you're feeling and we've asked ourselves the same questions, I know I have, so let 'er rip!

August 29, 2004
1:59 pm
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jul
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Vent, vent, vent! All of us do and need it sometimes. That's what's so great about this website. We are all here and all care about each other.

August 29, 2004
2:53 pm
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Okay guys, you gave me permission. Now you're going to suffer for it. (just kidding)

Here is a quick list of just the things I can REMEMBER that her not-so-ex has done... the not-so-ex that she just took back. This will kill ya.

(1) Physical abuse, including but not limited to; chokeing, slapping, punching, pushing through a glass door

(2) Sleeping with her cousin (though, her current disclaimer of THAT was "he did it while we were apart once, so it doesn't count as infidelity")

(3) Taking a baseball bat and smashing up her prized, coveted collection of Marylin Monroe (sp) memorabilia, such as rare photos, a few statues & figurines (she showed me the one little statue she has left that he didn't find, that was tucked away, and she savors it since it wasn't destroyed)

(4) Smashing up a family heirloom vanity mirror she inherited from her grandmother (neighbor friend found it in the local dumpster; she didn't even know where it went, that it just disappeared, and the neighbor brought it back in PIECES and said 'what happened'?)

(5) Running off ever few months, or at least a few times a year, back to his dad's house in an adjacent city, where he'd just basically start living and have all mail forwarded there (meanwhile, bills to the house where his wife and TWO CHILDREN quit getting paid; termination notices start rolling in)... this generally happened when she would start wanting to talk out differences or resolve issues that came up (generally when the tension phase of the kapmann's triangle of abuse was in play)

(6) Attacking her, along with his DAD (both men, together) when she went to his dad's house to get him to come out and talk about coming back home "to take care of his family". When I say attack, I mean literally, physically attacking and punching

(7) The last attack (same scenario as #6) involved her dad being there to protect her "so it wouldn't happen again", and the not-so-ex still attacked them both along with his dad and felonious assault charges are now filed against HER dad (for just stopping them from beating her) and he could go to prison

(8) During his last "hiatus", he chose not to participate in his four year old daughter's birthday, buy gifts, call or ANYTHING. She was in tears, having no money to do anything for the 4 year old girl (which she is an absolute doll, by the way, but aren't they all???); the neighbors, including myself, all pitched in money to buy her cake and icecream & gifts.

(9) When the 4 year old girl broke her arm a month ago, the not-so-ex bas***d showed up at the emergency room, looked at the daughter and said "well, she's not crying, so she must not be hurt THAT bad!" and turned around and WALKED OUT! NOT ANOTHER WORD! (you read that correctly)

(10) At the first hearing for the divource, the not-so-ex bas***d told the judge that he loved her, didn't want to leave and dind't want to be kept from his kids, that it wasn't HIS idea to file for divource; when the judge and lawyer asked him "well, we see here no bills were paid, you didn't send any money to support them or provide for thier general welfare... don't you want to help them out?" and his answer???? "NO! I don't want to give them ANYTHING!" (BZZZZZZT! Wrong answer to tell a southern christian judge; he nailed him with child support and spousal support payment orders, none of which to date were paid on time and to the correct amount)

OKAY, gang, that's enough for me now, i'm really angry... my point is, all these events are accurate, took place over the last 5 years or more of thier marriage... felonious assault charges pending against the father, he tells his daughter on the phone "you TOOK BACK the man and are now LIVING WITH the man that can put me in JAIL!!!!!!" and her reply; "dad, i'll still testify in your behalf!"....

and, two weeks ago, she cries to me on the phone and tells me, "I can't see you anymore; I saw him (the not-so-ex) and love for him returned and hit me like a ton of bricks!"

Well, that's enough for now. I'll conclude it by saying that I just spoke with her mother-in-law at the church (the dad, unfortunately, missed services as it was away at work out of state) and, nearly with tears in her eyes, the mother in law says, "(insert my name here), her dad was really fond of you; he knew you were good for her. This shocked all of us, and now her father says that she's right where (the ex) wants her; trapped, because next time the family won't be there to help her. Her father is devistated and feels.... betrayed."

Boy, YOU guys think you're lives are messed up? Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it.

InPain

August 29, 2004
3:25 pm
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..OH, and I just thought of something else the not-so-ex b***ard did; once when she left the house to have time for her self and calm down during one of his rampages and crybaby fits, he waited a few minutes and did the same thing; you know, "i'll show YOU! I'll just get mad and leave the house TOO!"

meanwhile, two babies, without adult supervision, are left at the house. Yep. He just left them there. Alone. Nobody there. (I remember when she once said "that was the LAST straw; we're over for good now. You can do anything to ME you want, but you don't mess with the welfare of my children!"). This event took place about a year and a half ago.

Oh, did I mention she just told me two weeks ago that love for this man returned like a ton of bricks on top of her? Yea, I think I mentioned it.

Oh, hey, wait, i'm being nearsighted and close-minded; i'm being just stupid. I bet he won't do any of this stuff again; i'll be this time he really will change.

InPain

August 29, 2004
3:36 pm
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Hi In Pain: I can understand your pain and especially your confusion. I too thought I was better than who my ex took up (all 30 of them!) but reading your story (several places) and especially what you wrote today- there is an awful lot of tragedy and drama in this woman's life and even if she were to come back to you, this would all be dragged along. Your life would have this in it forever. The ex isn't going away- they share children together- and its going to continue in some way. From an objective point of view, I wouldn't want all that mess in my life. I know you are attached to her- is it the saviour part of you that feels he needs to rescue this woamn? That would be an ongoing job. Hope this doesn't offend you- just opinions. SD

August 29, 2004
4:54 pm
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sd- no offense taken, I understand exactly what you are saying, and if I were on the outside, I would think the same thing; that, as Dr. Laura Schlegginger would say, would be "stupid chivarly" (from the book "Ten Things that men do to mess up thier lives"

Actually, i've been a friend/acquintence of her for 5 years; i've SEEN the "together,apart,together with intermittent violence & drama" cycle for the entire time, and I was well aware of what she was stuck in.

The only thing that made a difference THIS time is that everybody, including her family, actually believed she had had "enough" this time (the ex ba***rd stayed gone for so long this last time that the water got cut off to the house; neighbors pitched in and got it turned back on). With all the money the family forked out this time to pay bills, fund a lawyer, and also all the actual changes she seemed to show this time, we ALL thought she had finally made a breakthrough. The websites all say that sometimes it takes 8 or 9 beatings (that sounds crass but that's the synopsis of it) for them to learn thier lesson. I don't know how many total physical attacks and violent "smash object" episodes he's had, but EVERYBODY thought this time she learned; they were within 3 weeks (I think) of the finalization of the divource.

And then love for him returned like a ton of bricks.

I don't know if you read my other posts on the matter, but when I brought up his past to her on the phone the last time we spoke over a week ago, her response was "there you go, bringing all THAT up again!".

Yep. As simple as that. There I go, bringing all "that" up again.

InPainZHT

August 29, 2004
6:15 pm
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Hi again In Pain: I've read a bunch of your posts and don't remember all the details but my feelings are that this woman has A PILE of things to sort out before she can be good for anyone- MEANING YOU! She doesn't want what you have to give her- normalcy, protection, security,love, etc. She will just drain you because your good intentioned efforts will be for nothing as you have found out. She will sap every ounce of energy you have for the rest of your life unless she gets her head on straight and she is a long way away from that. Think of yourself for God's sake. I have a sister that is 45 years old and still can't get one single thing in her life together and I have had to remove myself from the situation but unfortunately my parents are still trying to raise their "baby" and she will never be a responsible adult. Worried about you- please consider a very important person in this situation- you. I think anyone deserves a simpler, happier life than what she can give you. SD

August 29, 2004
6:26 pm
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sd- I feel for your parents; they obviously haven't had "enough" yet. Just today in church, part of the pastor's sermon included the "prodigal son" story; love them, pray for them, but let them go, so when they are ready to really fix thier life and return, then help them.

My ex's parents, I think, have just gotten to that stage. I believe they are emotionally drained; after over 5 years of this repeat activity, they believed like I that this time she was going the distance and getting out.

Her stepmother, however, told me that after THIS "i'm going to give him ONE MORE CHANCE" stunt, everybody is done with her. Her father feels betrayed (who can blame him?), neither parents are talking to her at all (last I heard), and right out of my ex's own mouth, "I don't have a father anymore now." And when the step mom said "everybody is done", she explained that she meant that WHEN it doesn't work out again THIS time, my ex is trapped, with no where to go, because the family won't buy it another time. After several thousand dollars and a gallon of streaming tears, who can blame them (like I said).

I guess right now i'm just venting (like I said in the thread title)... i'm just saying (typing) things out loud to get them off my chest. I have seen insanity before, but this really took the cake. Like her step mom said to me, "we didn't even know that going back to him was a possibility!". My ex will be lucky this time around if a ton of bricks is the only thing that DOES fall on her.

I browsed a few more "cycle of abuse" websites again today, and BOY, if this isn't a textbook case. He fit 9 out of every 10 listed criteria for the "charming abuser" roll; including the one where they look pathetic and destitute after a long duration of being away from the victim, so the heart strings are plucked and she went running back, disappointing the whole family, her friends, placing her children back in harms way (though she won't admit it), and ripping my heart right out of my very chest.

What she is also ignoring now, for expediency and convieneince sake, is that his destitute & skinny appearance is from excessive drug use.

But what do I know; i'm stupid. I just live in the real world, not the one the little trolley went to on Mr. Roger's Neighborhood.

InPain

August 29, 2004
6:41 pm
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InPainZHT
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OH, hey, I just thought of one other thing he did that was "the last straw, it's OVER!" event (this happened about 2 years ago). During one of his baseball bat and fist against inanimate object rampages, he smashed up a picture of her she had on a desk.

When she asked him "why did you smash a picture of ME up?" he said that so he could still hit her but in such a way that he wouldn't go to jail for it.

Yep; she said "THAT event told me he's not getting any better, that he's never going to change. It's over when he did THAT."

Two years ago, and 2 or 3 more attacks ago.

But love hit her for him like a ton of bricks, and she had to drop me and take him back.

Yep. I sure am close minded, aren't I?

InPain

August 29, 2004
7:22 pm
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Dear InPain: Well, I don't know. Not being a psychiatrist or a psychologist, I can only say that to me, this man sounds without a doubt, to be crazier than a loon! And scary as H***. I'd like to think that if I were this lady, I'd be running, not walking, in the opposite direction from this guy as fast as I could! But, we don't know what really lies inside another's mind. My cousin did somewhat what your ladyfriend is doing but to a lesser degree. After I thought for sure she had totally taken leave of her senses, though, she regained her dignity and left the abuser for good. Married and settled down with a really nice, well-grounded, decent fella and they are still together some 15 years later. I guess they have to come to a point where they really want out and can't take it any more and don't fool themselves into thinking things will change. They seldom do. I feel sorry for you, and very sorry for this poor lady who does not seem to be able to get up the gumption to be done with the guy. I hope for her sake, that in time she does sort things out. And I hope that you can heal and maybe meet some other decent, appreciating gal. I can imagine, though, how it hurts watching someone you love behaving so recklessly. Remember, time.....Bangles

August 29, 2004
7:24 pm
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IN,

Here is my advice, and you can take it or leave it, but do me a favor.

Go make yourself something that you really enjoy drinking (however, I would suggest non-alcoholic), sit down and re-read EVERYTHING that you have just posted.

Everything you posted has to do with what this other man did, and yet, she still continues to take him back. Well, guess what? Darlin' it is HER problem, not yours. You CANNOT save her, no matter how much you think you love her.

The best thing to do at this point, do the 21 day detox. Make your "no buts" list, make another list of things you want to accomplish in the next six months - that DO NOT include her. Do NOT engage in conversation with others regarding your ex. If they start to tell you about what she is doing or going through, etc. reply, politely BUT firmly "I'm really no longer concerned what Dipsy Doodle is doing, but pray tell... how are YOU doing?" That will generally stop all the "well meaning" folks who think you need to know every last mundane fact of her life. By them doing that, and you listening and partaking, and banging your head trying to figure out why she chose him over you, you are only crazy-making. You are not doing yourself any good at all.

I have some other stuff that I have posted to others here on the site that they say have helped them, and if you like I will dig it up and post if for you to read.

But, you have to look at the realism of things, and yes, I know it stinks... these threads are FULL of woman who would give their right arm to have a nice, loving, caring man around. But, again, it is HER life, and it is HER life that she is messing up.

Believe it or not, and I promise you this, O.K.? Write down the date, because I really do promise you this. In time, when you look back on all of this you will think to yourself "thank God I didn't marry her, life would have been hell."

Z.

August 29, 2004
7:43 pm
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bangles,

I agree with you 110%; for those who survive the h*** of relationships such as these, they FINALLY reach a point where they get out, and hopefully heal properly so they don't allow themselves to continue back down the preprogrammed track of finding another abusive cycle to go to... I personal know many ladies who seem to jump from one abuser to another would-be-hero-later-turns-out-to-be-another-abuser... and it, until now, has flabbergasted me because it makes no sense, but thanks to all the forums and the book as well as posts in here, I finally understand just what in the devil is happening.

As for HER getting the sense to get out, everybody and I mean EVERYBODY thought THIS was her "don't look back" exit; however, from what i've heard, including right from her step mom today, she just very well may have burned all her bridges this time around... and God help her, He may be about the only one left that will listen when she decides to really try to climb back out of the pit.

The one remaining mystery- and continuing source of making everybody scratch their head- is HOW did this happen, literally, in the chasms and tunnels and pathways of her mind? Up until the very day she droped "the big one" on me (and her family), NOBODY but NOBODY saw it coming. I mean, nobody had a clue; there was nothing anybody could read from her that said "she's done with (me)", but CERTAINLY nobody say ANY clue that said "...and she's going right back to *him*"... her stop mom's words today to me after church; "I didn't even know her going back to him was a possibility!"

People, all jokeing aside... seriously, not meaning to sound poetic or dramatic.... but it's as though her brain suddenly *snapped*. If she only dumped me and said that I was a mistake, or that she wasn't ready yet for a relationship, or whatever, i'd still be hurt but for the sake of pete, that's not the same as going back to *him* concurrently! That makes it an ENTIRELY different story all together.

It's as though something in her mind literally short-circuited; THAT is what is the real puzzle here! Just what in the WORLD happened inside that head of hers?

I just don't know. Yea yea yea, I know what everybody is going to say; "you won't know, it makes no sense, don't try to figure it out, blah blah blah" but i'm sorry, things *do* happen for a reason, and I want to know what that reason is.

Perfectly sane, rational, wealthy businessmen ( who didn't suddenly go bankrupt and lose all thier money & assets) do not jump out of skyscrapers for no reason; There is a cause-effect relationship that I want solved. When crime inspectors start looking into solving cases like murder, the modus operandi is one of the first thing that is researched and discovered (if at all).

Now I am rambling for sure, but this is what is on my mind.

InPain

August 29, 2004
9:27 pm
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InPainZHT:

I'm glad you vented...I read this thread and see that you have every right to be angry and frustrated with this situation. It's maddening. When I read your list of things she has allowed to happen to her, I am shocked. However, I'm sure that many people are shocked when they hear the things I have allowed my husband to get away with. Codependence is a very powerful thing. As I work through my recovery, I realize that I should not have allowed so many of these things to happen to me. But so many factors enter into the picture, including how I was raised as a child. I pray for her...that she will have an enlightenment and free herself from the abuse. I pray for you...that you will learn that it is nothing that you have done to deserve this. And I thank you for sharing your story so that others might see themselves and learn from it. Bless you.

August 29, 2004
10:26 pm
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readyforachange,

I have gathered two things in this adventure of self discovery; (1) It's the glowing, romantic, "i'll never do it again" honeymoon phase that keeps the women coming back, and (2) the episodes between violence & abuse are spread apart JUST enough so the short-term memory can block it out... a few months apart, in my ex's case. I think most episodes took place between 1 1/2 months to 4 months apart.

Fact is, if it were daily, I don't think 99% of the codependent "go back for more punishment" cases would happen; if there were no honeymoon phase, I don't think so either.

That's the down and dirty details, sad as it is to say.

God bless all of you in this horrible cycle, and may God save me from insanity.

InPain

August 31, 2004
1:53 pm
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InPain,

I agree with Zinnie. It doesn't sound like you took a word of what she said seriously, not that you have to. I said this over and over again to you and this will be the last time. Get your focus off of your ex gf and the reasons she went back to her ex. Get the focus off her ex. Put the focus on YOU because you are being your worst enemy and driving your own self insane. Take it or leave it.

August 31, 2004
2:44 pm
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Hi Inpain,
I just read this thread hope you are doing well this week?
You know addiction is like jumping in front of a bus knowing you are going to get hurt. Doing over and over again.

She is not in love with him she is addicted to him and all that Crisis and Trauma.
As sick as that sounds Ms. Trauma Queen will drag everyone down with her on her addiction of him. Even if she does leave him she will do it again with someone else until she gets help.

For you sake Inpain keep venting! Look what Zinnie said it's so true!
set a date to start it.

Write down all and everything you can including you feelings about this.
Every detail.
Then tell yourself you are going to let go of it. Put the papers you write in the barbecue and set them on fire!

Watch them burn...ending. Then do what Zin suggested. Start a new life.
Refuse to let anyone talk about it to you. Do something everday wonderful for yourself...
If a thought comes in your head about her replace it with No! I am not going to think of this go for a run or walk or anything you enjoy.
Rent some funny video's.
Make a list of everything you want!
I mean everything! Without her in it.

Better health, New car, New house, new job. A wish list.
Start new hobbies. Go out with friends who don't know her.
Or won't talk about her.

If you don't you are letting "him" destroy your life too.

You are the healthy one and there are so many beautiful loving women that would love to have you.
Just don't let this get you too.

You don't want to take this on and be caught up in crisis also.
Someday you will look back and be so grateful and know how sick this all was and you did not get hooked in it.
CAK

August 31, 2004
3:55 pm
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CAK -- THANKS, what an excellent post. SO much so because I saw you, like a few others, used the words "addicted" in applying her feelings for him; I decided to go do a web search on "addiction and relationships". THIS is why I came to the forum to talk to people; I knew the wisdom of others would help pull me throug. I had NO earthly idea there was such a thing as relationship addiction; and, just like the karpman triangle of abuse, she fits the set of criteria listed on the pages I found to a T. She seems to have an intermixing of problems; as suggested by one of the relationship addiction sites, her codependency spills over onto R.A., or so it would seem.

NOW is coming some more relief that I have been seeking; as in my past, all truths I have come understand has helped to set me free. A couple of books on the subject of relationship addiction were suggested on some of the sites, which I have no added to my "to read" list (I consume books the way politicians consume tax dollars). I may even be learning a little something about myself as well.

ZINNIE -- I thank you for the helpful hints. I would like it known, however, that my problem ISN'T that I am trying to save her from him; after all, though I am in a lot of despair now, even I realize that she's the nut, not me, for choosing to be with him.. those two have gone through this song and dance for over 5 years, and i've lived next door to it... my hurt and pain has come from the fact that she and I were dateing (since her friends, family and I all figured that she was showing signs of having pulled free of it) and she STILL decided to go back just one more time. That may not matter to some, but I wanted the record clear about what it was that was killing me. It's not a rescueing concept, either, at least not in my opinion; I wasn't dateing her to RESCUE her. She had family & friends to give her financial help. I just really, genuinely cared about her; we have been friends many years.

Anyway, as they say, 6 of one and half a dozen of the other...

InPain

August 31, 2004
4:02 pm
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InPain,

You deserve so much better than her. She sounds like she has so many hang ups and it isn't you. She is addicted to him and can't let go which makes her not able to have a healthy relationhsip. The thing that bothers me the most is she isn't just hurting you and herself, she is putting the children in a terrible home life.

I hope that you will find some peace by realizing your true value and doing things for yourself. I hope that she will seek help for her addiction for herself and her children. But for now, you can only do things for yourself. She has to realize on her own and hopefully she will.

September 1, 2004
8:36 am
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Ahealthierme,

I'm trying. It's very hard... I'm on the rollercoaster, up and down now, nearly everybody has gone through it. At first i'll have a feeling of peace to one degree or the other (generally after comeing to some realization of some kind), but maybe 1 hour later or 10 minutes later, WHAMMO, "it" hits me again; "well, that aside, still the matter remains that she DUMPED me!" and I curl up and cry yet again.

Sucks.

InPain

September 6, 2004
2:16 pm
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InPain,

That is so depressing.

Well, it looks like you got yourself mixed up in something you didn't quite understand. Her betrayal of you is definitely a bummer.

What most concerns me is the safety of the children. It sounds like a case for CPS. There is a lot of violence there and it is already manifesting as neglect. People who are habitually abusive to their intimate partners are most often also abusive to their children too. I hate to think about where this could go.

September 6, 2004
2:29 pm
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InPainZHT
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Worried_Dad...

yep; and with THAT in mind, I know re-direct you once again to another thread, the one labeled "there ought to be a law".... where I brought this up.

I cannot honestly say I am the first one to have looked at it from this angle; it came to me after seeing several other people in here post "what about the children?", as well as people in my local inner circle here who said things along the same lines... "why don't the grandparents take the kids?"

I don't know why the CPS hasn't. So far, the children have never been a direct target of the violence; my ex, living in a dream world, thinks that he won't "cross THAT line", although she learned during this whole seperation & fake divorce minagerie that there are LOTS of things he is willing to do that she didn't think he would. Keep in mind one event where the father picked the little girl up, holding her as a "shield" as it were since he knew his wife wouldn't do anything back with him holding the daughter, and began pushing and shoving her, ultimately pushing her through a glass door. Anybody who doesn't realize that this is permanantly dented into the little girl's mind is NUTS.

But, alas, since the wife never filed any charges at anytime against him, and that things are kept so quiet, the CPS hasn't interviened. Her mom & stepdad haven't tried to adopt them out from under them, but I imagine out of fear of hurting her feelings (I guess); they are capable of it, because they already HAVE adopted the little boy from one of thier boys (my ex's brother) because the guy was a crack addict and in and out of so much trouble he couldn't raise the child properly.

Once again i'll say it; what a SICK world this is.

InPain

May 23, 2005
7:11 pm
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Okay, it's now may 23, 2005. Several months ago, this man attacked her AGAIN with pepper spray; ran off, leaving the two children and herself without means of support, had her car (in his name) towed away, the power turned off, phone disconnected and gas turned off. Add all that to the august 29, 2004 list I made.

We played the STUUUUPID role of "you learned your lesson, now you and I can try again", about 3 Months ago.

Two weeks ago, suddenly, she determines once again that this man is a saint, loves his children, and was always there for her and them both and took care of them as a loving, caring father & husband. So she took him back.

Now, dear friends, I have learned MY lesson. Don't let this happen to you. Life is bittersweet.

InPain

May 23, 2005
7:37 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Yes, a very hard lesson to learn. Life is bittersweet isn't it.

But, you hold your head up and you walk on with your head held high.
You can be just fine.

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