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"But i love him!"
November 1, 2001
1:14 pm
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Maribelle
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I have been reading the post on here lately about women who have been with men over 5 years.. Have marriages with them, kids with them or just A really long drawn out relationship, Talking about how Their men treat them so horribly. Whether it's abuse, Stealing, lying, cheating it seems they all come up with the same excuse for staying with him "But i love him"
I HATE this excuse! Us women need to Start loving OURSELVES more and The people who have no respect or genuine interest in our well- being a little bit less!

I am 18.. And my parents had a really horrible relationship up until i was 13. My dad terrorized the whole family and my mom would kick him out just to let him back a week later. Only excuse she ever gave us kids was "I love him and he said he'd change" Me being young at this time, even then KNEW that this repeat behavior would NOT change, and i wanted him to leave for good and I just wanted to feel safe in my own home. It took my mom 13 years of my life to end her marriage of over 20 years finnally. And She only ended it because she found my dad With another women! NOW she despises him. But what about the way he acted before that? I swore i'd never use that excuse For a man i was with. If he treated me like shit, I would leave him in an instant.. And what did i do????

I got with someone just as bad. stayed with him for a year. Got cheated on,lied to, verbally abused, Cried to all my friends and family, Even tried to kill myself over this man I was so dependant on for my OWN hapiness. It can happen to Any of us if it happened to me! I was confident, independant and self assused before I met him. All my friends gave up on me and won't even talk to me anymore because I kept going back to him. Same with family they just won't let me cry anymore about something I CHOOSE to go back to. He clearly doesn't love me But In my dream world I figured he'd change and HE has to love me! He used to! And "i love him"

This is where i woke up. I'm tired of my friends not speaking to me. They are the only thing POSITIVE in my life. And I do not want to be stuck in a marriage with this man And have it been ten times harder to get out. In a way i'm greatful it took him only a year to show his true colors. I Want to get out before I Let everyone around me see me being disrespected and belittled When I am just happy that he's not cheating. It's not right. If a man truly loves you, you should not have to constantly be forgiving him for things that hurt you. And like most of the post on here.. i thought it was MY fault and i felt So useless. But i see now, This is HIS fault and he will never change, He wants to live his life this way.
I was so dependant on him that it had taken me a while to come to these terms. This will be my first week working on getting him completely out of my life. I'm also going to counseling because I never want to be with a man like this again. And what I would suggest for women in deeper.. Is they do the same, think of themseleves and the hapiness they will have without having to worry constantly about your partners whereabouts.

Sorry if i rambled but I just had some random thoughts to jot out. Have a nice day 😉

November 1, 2001
2:10 pm
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artist
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What is love anyway?
Love is the most ill used word on this planet and maybe other worlds, too--but I haven't gotten any feedback from any extra terrestrials as yet.
Seriously, for most people love encompasses a wide range of emotions and for some people a lot of those emotions have nothing to do with love--need, desire, fear of being alone, having someone to call mine to control or be controlled by and God knows what else.
I would like to believe that to fix this "love abuse" it could be as simple as getting the whole world to agree on a definition for love--but as much as I'd like to be Pollyanna in outlook--it ain't gonna happen.
It makes me sad.
Anyone got any ideas?
Artist

November 1, 2001
2:22 pm
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Cici
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Well, I think part of the process of learning to be intimate with yourself (which is what most of use universally avoid), is learning to be accountable for your own actions as well as learning to identify and separate the actions and feelings of others from your own biases.

What I mean to say is that part of the process of empowerment is owning up to your self-destructive duplicity - the fact that BECAUSE you never learned to love yourself and accept yourself, you chose to engage in actions that were potentially or actually harmful to you. This is super common with women who were victims of sexual abuse/assault. They feel worthless because of the helplessness and powerlessness they felt as abused children/women, and subconsciously decide that they deserve to be treated horribly because they are worthless.

Have you ever heard of the "theory of mind" development? Young children often have a difficult time relaying stories they heard to other people - the stories are choppy and disjointed and sometimes not even chronologically ordered! This is because they have not yet developed theory of mind, they don't realize that other people don't think the same ways and thoughts they do, so they assume others know what they know. It's a well-researched topic, and I'm actually doing research in 3 local preschools on the topic in a class study.

Anyway, my point is that in actuality, many adults are guilty of the same cognitive error. We tend to overlay our own biases on the actions of others that we perceive. So, bottom line, we must always be aware that our perceptions of everything and of our interactions with others or even our simple observations of others - are always colored by our personal biases. We must be aware that when we judge others, we are really judging ourselves.

I feel like elaborating because I was just discussing this issue with my husband. When we allow our internal emotional landscape to be altered by the actions of other people, we take that personal locus of control and put it outside of ourselves. We are suddenly dependent on the actions of other people (who may or may not realize this) for our own emotional stability!!

If you learn to focus on your own process of growth and learning, and cultivate a sort of objective awareness of your life and choices, you won't fall into this trap of self-destructive behavior, in it's many guises. I have to constantly remind myself of this throughout the day, it is a supremely difficult proposition, but in some ways I have found my own meaning of life in try to learn to focus on my own growth process.

November 1, 2001
2:35 pm
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artist
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Wow!
You have given me MUCH food for thought. I will ponder and get back to you with my self-revelations--good thoughts all. Thanks.
Artist

November 1, 2001
4:32 pm
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Maribelle
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Artist.. I think we all love people in simular ways. We all tend to look for the same thing. Only when it isn't returned.. it's because That person just doesn't love us back, but we always make up other excuses for it.
Blondie is right on the dot with this.Her explanation is simple.. Love is SUPPOSED to be simple. If you love someone you DO NOT hurt them. you just don't.. you let me be themselves and you Let them grow. If they ask you to do otherwise, then they just don't Love you and You can't change that.

My problem was, I was so convinced that when My Ex boyfriend told me he loved me, He felt the same love and passion I was feeling. So then when everything Went wrong.. I thought how could he do this to me HE LOVES ME AND HE KNOWS I LOVE HIM! HOW COULD HE JUST SLEEP WITH SOMEONE ELSE? Once my cloudy head cleared up I realized.. He did NOT love me! I like how cici explains it as well because I am guilty of thinking like a child when it comes to love! VERY guilty! For now on.. I look for what makes ME happy, and if another man is going to be part of my life .. I expect none of that to change.

November 2, 2001
8:55 am
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Hi gang! Heavy thinking going on from my end(can you see the smoke coming out of my ears?)

CiCi--I have been seriously thinking about every thing you said and I still am not catching it all--you are one deep lady-- but what makes sense to me right now and what I can apply to my situation--I never did learn to love myself for lots of reasons and I've made a lot of bad choices because of it--this "theory of mind" concept--it rings true--cognitive errors are my domain. My current inability to communicate effectively and to understand the differences between myself and my significant other--that's the result of years of cognitive errors. I am trying to claw my way out of the trap of self destructive behavior. It takes second by second awareness which takes LOTS
of energy(I'm seriously learning to LOVE naps--I nap and then I'm back ready for another round). Difficult, ooh, baby, I'll say--but not impossible and totally worth it.

Blondie--does the "cough, cough" mean that you've been sick? I thought that you'd just been out having fun trick or treating?:) You, OK? ET--what planet are you from--I'm from Uranus--sorry--REALLY bad joke--but I am an aquarian and it is my planet, honest.
I like your ideas, too--simple yet eloquent and summed up really nicely by you, Maribelle--love is supposed to be simple. I can run with that idea. I agree with Blondie--you do have your whole life ahead of you and what a great life it promises to be.
Thanks, all.
Love ya--Artist

November 2, 2001
2:24 pm
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Cici
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artist, much respect for your worthy effort. I empathize. It's hard to remember that life is a journey, especially when you have the very common feminine trait of over-analyzing. Suddenly you get to this world of gray in-betweens with no high ground to stand on because you are so busy trying to out-think yourself!

But lately I have been pondering this idea of love, Idealized Love, I guess, where everything is positive and supportive and accepting and open. But I have a hard time thinking of any good examples of this. I mean, to understand that we are human is to understand that we are flawed. It is our imperfections that endow that metaphysical concept of "humanity" on us, isn't it? As in, "I'm only human." (rather than the emobdiment of perfection as we identify divinity to be)

So, being that we are flawed, our mates will be just so, right? My infamous mother once told me that love isn't about anything but two people being able to tolerate each other's idiosynchrasies. It seems like a depressing enterprise when I put it that way, doesn't it?

I don't know. I am married to a very giving and generous man, but a flawed man, a man who is still learning and growing, who still accidentally elbows me in that growth process.

What I'm trying to say is that love is supposed to be simple, but how can it be simple when we are such complicated individuals?

November 3, 2001
3:53 am
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artist
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CiCi,
We are complicated--that's why I like to spend time with animals--their needs are simple and it's easy to fill them.

Because no two people are alike in personality, thought patterns and experience is where the effort or work comes in--to bridge the gaps between us--to make a relationship.

Love should be simple in the sense that a person should not have to work all the time in a relationship to make themselves and the other person in the relationship happy. Happiness should be the underlying attribute of the relationship. The effort should be a joyful one.

I agree with your mother and I will add that tolerance is a part of love--tolerance, compassion, mercy, understanding and forgiveness are wonderful and necessary attributes to possess when you are in a relationship. Color all these with joy and the idea is not depressing at all.

None of these attributes should be used to excuse abusive behavior, though. Many people keep themselves in bad relationships doing that.

So, we each get to decide for ourselves, is our relationship simple--easy for us to handle or more work than we want to undertake? Am I happy or miserable? Does something need fixing and can I fix it? Do I want to fix it or do I want to walk away?

I have a bumper sticker on my car that says "Life time member of the human race." Ya gotta love it.
Artist

November 5, 2001
3:44 pm
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Cici
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Most assuredly.

I despair of ever being able to have a healthy relationship, though. I have enough insight to realize when I am reacting with my very strong and brauny defense mechanisms, when I intentionally aggravate and push away because intimacy=vulnerability.

When I sat back and read your statement, it rang true in some ways. But I feel deperately responsible for my own continued conflicts in my marriage. We love, but at times it seems that the passion of the love I have is so intense it burns me, it makes me frightened and I shy away. We both do, my husband and I, circling endlessly and pecking at each other like blind animals.

November 15, 2001
1:34 pm
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lyn
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November 15, 2001
5:55 pm
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Maribelle
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Ugh lyn.. You absence of a post has reminded me of Mine 🙁
Here's my problem , I was doing good for a while.. Saying "oh i don't need a man like this in my life.. he doesn't really love me anyway" But Then he made me promises to Change and So I let down my walls a bit. And now Trying to make myself happy and thinking of doing it without him just does NOT work. I've read the post about being co-dependant and things but really I just feel i'm ONLY happy when i'm with him. I don't think i'm dependant now so much as before, it's just that I don't want to let go of someone who I love more then anything. In a way that makes me weak doesn't it? He hasn't kept any of his promises to me but He says he still wants to be with me and wants me to live with him. It truly is HARD to just leave someone when you are scared they will just find someone else in the future and you will always wonder what could be. I don't know what to do .. how do i just get over him?

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