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Beginning to Face It
October 28, 2006
5:09 am
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GettingAGrip
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I've known for alot of years that I was co-dependent. Alcoholism runs in both sides of parents families. My mother is co-dependent, my father is an alcohol (divorced when I was 19). I however never realized, even though I went into counseling once before, exactly the multitude of symptoms stemming from co-dependency, maybe I just wasn't ready to face it yet. Now, that my marriage may be over and my 8 year old child is following in my foot steps, I started researching and I am the epitimy of a co-dependent..... I asked my husband to move out, thinking he had issues that I just couldn't take any more. Looking at myself now, I realize that though I can't take all the blame, I can acknowledge that my control may have caused him to loose his self-worth and feel like less of a man, which is what probably brought the bad qualities he has expressed over the last 10 years. But, boy did we make a galant effort to co-exist, we used to make a good team. There must have been alot of love there at one time for it to last as long as it did before imploading. I unfortunately, haven't felt much of anything for along time, too long to remember. When my son saw me crying yesterday, he told me not to talk about it, then I would feel better. I think that's when it hit me, that not only have I possibly ended my marriage due to my mental state, I'm passing it down to my son. I told him that it's o.k. to feel sad and cry (key point being feel). I don't want him going through what I have during my life. It's sad when your only goal in life was to NOT be your parents and though I'm not an alcoholic, I am my mother. My son is a very sweet, happy boy. At least was until recently, now he's scared and sad, his little world seems to be falling apart. If I can help myself, maybe he won't continue down the path that I have been going through for 35 years. We only want what's best for our children, of course. It might be too late for my husband and I. A great loss after 15 years together in total.

I've made an appointment with my councelor for the upcoming week. I haven't talked with her in a couple years.

But, for now, I'm not sleeping, not eating and feel totally out of control, which I'm guessing is par for the course. I guess I just don't know where to begin to repair myself. I feel very broken and may sounds like I'm feeling sorry for myself. But, at least it's a feeling.

Any advise on where to start, until I can get the counceling started again, would be welcome. I am at a complete loss right now and feel very alone.

October 28, 2006
5:45 am
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Getting a Grip...
welcome, you have come to the right place, and the support here is unbelievable.
Well..I guess the place to start is to keep reminding yourself that all you can change is yourself.
I went down a very similar path as you...15 years with a man that I could not communicate with, that always told me if I felt something..'that is YOUR problem' and is doing the same thing to our 6 year old.
my LONG divorce (2.5 year divorce) was over on Monday...15 year marriage and we were the same way...roommates.
but we need more than that, we need to feel worth something too...as do the men in our lives.

But there comes a time that if you cannot help yourself and feel bad about yourself, that you cannot help your husband or your son.
Resentment in a relationship has a way of totally ruining a once-good relationship and then it is better to be apart...my now 12 year old was glad when we split..no more fighting she said...
funny, that is what she saw all the time, and I don't remember all that much fighting!

Parents are their kids world, it is difficult to lose what they know, but believe me, I am a much better role model for my kids now.
when I was married...I was the doormat that tried not to make waves..
typical co-dependent.

now my kids see a strong, independent thinker that holds a good job, and takes care of herself and does things for herself, without feeling selfish.

Believe me, I struggle every single day that I made the right decision with the divorce, it is getting better..I do know that after all he has done, I do not want him back, but I was holding onto a fantasy that we had this great marriage!

I am slowly letting go of that fantasy and seeing it for what it was.
Now, moving on is difficult, he seems to have no regrets..has a young g/f and just bought a new car....and I feel like I have lost everything.

But one thing I found in all this, was myself..something I don't remember having.
or feeling entitled to.
I now stand up for myself, do what I want to do, work on goals that I have, and I feel much less resentment.
I don't know how you get there, but your kid(s) come first, they need to feel safe especially at this time.
who knows what will happen in the future with you and your husband, maybe after finding yourself, he will change too?

we just have to go through life not looking back, looking forward and hoping that there is something better out there for us and our children, because they and YOU deserve the very best.

sorry for babbling, the random thoughts were just coming out!

stay strong!
nvr

October 28, 2006
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Thank you. It's good to know that there's hope of recovery. Granted my husband does have an anger management problem (never beat me, just yelling), but if I was making him feel less of a person, I'm sure that didn't help him. I'm hoping he gets help, during this time also. I'm sure that both of us fed off the others strength or weaknesses. He let me control everything, he gave up trying to have any kind of independence. In hind sight, I think I beat him down with my strength. I thought I could take on the worlds problems, because it was easier than facing my own. But at the same time that's what I always complained about. I do realize that whether my marriage survives this or not. It was just the way the cards were played out. What once was good, could now have so much water, the bridge has washed away for good. It's hard not to take full responsibility, as I probably shouldn't but damn if I'm not starting to. According to some things I've been reading this morning. I need to let go and have some fun, maybe that's a way to start. My husbands coming to take our son over night, so I'll have some me time. But, it's been so long since I've truly enjoyed anything, I'm not even sure where to start. Don't want the bar scene that I had when I was single. Lost any outside interests other than a good book. A friend of mine stopped by last night to check on me and she's a recovering everything that has relied on me alot, says that I need to reach out and actually say that I need something. Maybe I'll call a friend and get together. Just don't want to wear an ear off...you know?

October 28, 2006
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I understand that...I could never have made it without my friends and I truly found out who my friends are.
And the key is really listening to them too! The people you don't think have problems, do!
But, start out small..the bar scene..not fun....
but getting out, going out to dinner with a friend is a wonderful start!

I know all about taking all the responsibility for the demise of your marriage, but you can't. there are 2 people, you need to work together.
I went from blaming myself, to blaming him and then finally realizing I needed more, it was both of us.
We did not make each other feel good about themselves!
We both had a hand in it.
so don't take on all that guilt, it is not worth it!

my ex has an anger management problem, but it is not my problem anymore, and people see it for what it is.
and you both need help!
if it is meant to be, it will...
but for now, focus on you and building yourself up.

you is all YOU have!

nvr

October 28, 2006
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That's what I'm trying to come to terms with. It just looks like one of the longest/hardest roads that I am beginning a journey on. Thanks for your support. I guess being hard on myself and beating my self up won't help either. If the rain stops today, maybe I'll take a walk on the beach and collect shells. We have a wonderful cold front coming through here in Rainy Clearwater, FL. We're expecting 76 as the high today, which will be wonderful break from a long/hot summer. Maybe over Thanksgiving we, my son and I can take a road trip, find some snow and play in it......I'll keep looking to the future. In the meantime, trying to stay busy. Thanks for listening :]

October 29, 2006
5:45 am
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If I were in your situation, I would sit down with a box of pictures and make a scrapbook. Then I would give it to my son so that he could see that his parents weren't always angry, and they didn't always fight. Let him see that you loved his father (probably still do) and it may help you mourn the loss of the marriage. I hope that counseling will help you to develop a healthy relationship with your husband whether you stay married or not, so that you can co-parent a child who does want to be like you both. Lots of support to you during this trying period.

October 29, 2006
9:04 am
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Thank you. I did start to feel a bit better and a little helpless yesterday. My husband took my son for the night, so that made him feel better. I am also going to make an appointment with my Primary Care Doctor and see about an anti-depressant, as well. I think I'm battling both. I'm researching depression, as well and have all those symptoms, ugh. I just need to view the side effects and find the right one for me. Planning on doing that today.

I appreciate your incouragement and I think I will get the photo albums out. Not just for my son, but for me, those were times, when I was actually happy as well.

I did get my husband a card yesterday, not to say I'm sorry, it was just a because. Try to make a little peace for my sons sake. This morning when he called to arrange a time to bring our son home, there seemed a little less tension and I think that will help the situation some.

Lots of soul searching going on right now. But, gotta face it before I can start fixing it. It took me 35 years to get here, it may take me 35 years to reverse, but gotta keep trying. I've been to ala-non as a child, in it's beginning stages, so learned alot about the addict and I'm beginning to think that I will need to follow the same steps for the co-dependency.

Time will tell the outcome. But again, I'm so glad I found this group. In reading some of the other threads, I found out that I'm not alone and I can get better. I've wanted to comment on some of them, as they were so moving, but still so messed up, didn't know what to write.

Thank you again.

Getting A Grip

October 30, 2006
5:23 am
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Getting a Grip..
all you can do is work with the other parent and we did the scrapbook thing...it was nice.
and it is much nicer to deal with the father of your child with less anger.
I cannot do that right now, I cannot even LOOK at him.

but, I know that time heals a lot of things, and we move forward.

we have a difficult road to travel, I am not saying it gets easier, but then again I don't want to be angry either.

so, we move ahead and hope that someday we can look back and see where we have been and hope to never be there again.

and we learn about ourselves and all that we are worth.
we all have a life worth living.

we just have to keep that in mind!

nvr

October 30, 2006
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nvr2late,

It sounds like your still struggling as well. I took your advise and we picked up an album that I let my son pick out. I pulled out a box that I kept from when we were dating and I let him pick out pictures that he wanted in his album. He got to look at dried up roses, little gifts and cards that told each other that we loved each other. I pulled out our wedding album and let him pick pictures from there, as well as his baby albums. He's keeping it in his room and I promised him that when I had someone to help me get a huge box out of the loft, he could pick out more pictures for his album.

It's unfortunate, but I believe that my husband was giving him possible false hope while he was with him overnight. According to my son, his father was telling him that we would be a family again. But, he shouldn't be saying things like that. Because none of us know the future. Though people say that love can cover a multitude of sins, sometimes the sins don't mesh. The more I put things together the more I realize that even if I am able to overcome my codepency and control issues, as well as depression. He could easily throw me back into it. Some of his issues are anger management which I mentioned before, but it's also insecurity and he's very weak. He's also such a perfectionist and considered a dry-drunk, which is someone with alcoholic tendencies, but aren't acting on them. He's always needing re-assurance and praise. I don't think that's a healthy situation for me.

I read alot of the threads and though I haven't read everyone of them and others completely, I haven't seen anyone that has successfully overcome their issues, where their spouses have worked at their issues and actually overcame them and made it work together.

I can't rule out the possibility, but it realy doesn't look good. I'm trying not to worry about what he's doing right now, it's up to him. He was still in denial when I asked him to leave, so chances are there we won't work through things to become healthy. I keep telling my son that no one predict our futures, in hopes that he won't be let down any more than he already is, but then his father says we'll be together again. He's just really confusing him.

My husband was also inquiring about me, trying to drain my son for information, which I guess is par for the course. My son is such an honest little boy, of course he told him about what I'm going through. I asked him why and he said because he wants daddy to see what's going on, in hopes of making him realize he needs to come home. Ugh, there he is trying to control the situation so he can have the outcome he wants. Boy, have I rubbed off on him......

I'm trying to stay strong for both of us right now.

I do thank you for your advise and incouragement, especially since you seem to be still facing your battle. I'm not sure which thread is yours, but I'm willing to listen, also. Maybe we can all become healthy together. That's what I'm getting out of this. I've never relied on others before, but it seems to be a better way of doing things.

Take care of you....

Getting A Grip -- something about shortening my user name to GAG, just doesn't do it for me :] Can you see why?

October 30, 2006
9:58 am
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Nvr2late,

I'm sorry I confused you with sis who got help, she gave me the album advise. I didn't want to confuse you with my dingyness.....

But, does sound like your still dealing with alot and my ears there for you.....

o.k. I'll do it....

GAG

October 31, 2006
3:34 pm
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Well, my husband called this morning and we were actually able to talk like human beings. A nice change. I was able to get alot of things off my chest, that I've been keeping in for years. I told him that for now, I'm working on myself and my needs. I've always worried about him and his needs. I did tell him things that may have aided in my co-dependency progressing to this degree. I needed for once that he take some of the responsibilty. I also told him that it is now up to him to worry about his needs, that I didn't want him back the way things have been. He needs to continue on his plan to becoming independent, that I'm not counting on anything or planning anything. I'm going to focus on counseling and living day-to-day.

We've come to some visitation agreements, which hopefully will help get my son through this. He misses his daddy so terribly. I think my husband is going to dock the boat and live on it for awhile. It's comfortable for 1, but not for 2. So, for the time being, when he spends overnight with our son, he can come to the house and I'll get lost for the night. Our sons comfort is also important right now.

I start counseling tomorrow, so I hope that will help me talk through some of the anger. I so desperately want to feel truly happy again. It's been a long time, if ever.

My husband is going to come over this evening and go trick or treating with our son. I told him, I would be glad to bow out, so that they could spend the time together. Our son really needs it. He's gotten so sad. I hope that makes him feel better.

I've put possitive phrases on the refrigerator to look at all the time and am reading a book on co-dependency. I hope I'm on the right track to recovery right now. I just can't think of anything else I could be doing different. I'm not that far in the book yet.....

October 31, 2006
8:08 pm
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Well, that was very tense, I guess par for the course. We'll have to learn how to communicate in a different way for our sons sake.

Got lots of halloween candy to eat :]

November 1, 2006
5:49 pm
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Well, I went to counseling today. When I left there I actually felt great. She said I was on the right track. I have my next appointment. But, I guess my idea of separation is different than any mans out there. When I got out of counseling, my girlfriend had left me a message that my husband lost his cell phone and she had picked it up from St. Pete police department. someone actually turned it in. She started going down the list of #'s trying to find and the first one she called was someone she met in a bar. Come to find out, he had met her the night before and then met her again last night. When she got drunk and was obviously about to be arrested for disorderly/drunken conduct, he ducked out (or so he says). With all the ducks in a row, it seems like things went on that may or may not have.

My idea of separation is a trial thing to see if there's anything left to salvage in a marriage. Not a chance to go date. Regardless of him saying nothing happened with her, when he went to meet her the second night, that was wrong, or at least according to my moral standards. Anyway, I ended up looking like the smuck. But, if he's out playing around, then the thought of reconsiliation just should go out of any of our minds.

He says since he's on his own, he should be able to talk with people, he's not dead. That's fine, but he's definitely going in another direction.

Am I wrong to think that a separation is supposed to mean that you should work on the communication again, and seeing if there's anything left to salvage. Or is that just a control codependency thing rearing up on me. My counselor said it's not going to happen over night.

After 15 years together, of course the thought of another woman, escpecially since we're still married, spiked a bit of jealousy. I'm not sure it wouldn't affect the healthy minded person.

We've talked about the separation and we both agree that if either of us disrespected the other one enough to sleep with someone else, while we are married, than there really isn't a marriage left to save. Well, doesn't meeting someone in a bar and setting a time to meet her the next night....mean that he's pursuing something other than a friendship.

Even if I was wrong about questioning the findings today, I don't think I'm off base. That this separation is only leading in one direction. If I'm the only one beginning to work on things and he's spending his lonely nights at bars, where is it really headed?

Would it be too early in the separation to see a divorce lawyer and move forward?

I know I am not supposed to worry about him any longer and only myself, but that's hard when nothing is final. Ugh.

I don't know whether filing for divorce is the right route, looking at what I'm seeing. I hate to keep hanging on to something that just won't work in the end. Don't want to prolong it. My son feels like he's in limbo, hoping for us to work out. If I went ahead and ended it, then he's not in limbo right now.

I definitely think the whole "NO CONTACT" thing would be great right now. But, unfortunately, I can't do that to my son.

I feel like the 3 steps forward I have taken over the past 5 days, has just been ripped away and I'm back to the drawing board.

Getting A Grip

(At least trying to)

November 1, 2006
5:59 pm
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Sorry if I have nothing better to say but seeing a lawyer (confidentialy) doesnt seem like the wrong thing to do. So many times we´re caught by surprise because we didn´t. I don´t think the lawyer is gonna make up your mind, just give you some hard facts. Good luck!

November 1, 2006
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Thanks. I just don't see an end to the disappointment, if we're heading in two different directions. Here I'm on a mission to feel again, since I've been avoiding it for so long. But, I actually felt the jealousy today and if he thinks it o.k. to talk to other people (I personally call it dating), while were' just 1 1/2 weeks separated, than maybe it's just not worth fighting for.

I think I will see one, thank you for your advise. I still thinks it's going to be a long hard road. We don't do well together and we're obviously not doing well apart either.....

I'm so lost and confused right now, I don't know where to start.

November 1, 2006
10:49 pm
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Well, things are getting nasty again. We (meaning my son and I), weren't available when my husband called today, so he left me a really nasty message. I am going to contact a divorce lawyer. I need to know where I stand and what I need to be doing to prepare for the worse. My dry-drunk husband is drinking regularly now that he doesn't have his co-dependent wife nagging and stopping him. Until the alcohol is out of his system, he won't be rational. Don't forsee a happy ending right now. He's too busy playing the victim instead of trying to do the right things. I can't for my own sanity worry about him anymore, that's what got me where I am to begin with.

I've actually started to change our routines. I've been a walker since I quit smoking. But, on Monday and Wednesday's when I work at home this week, I started walking my son to school. We are actually trying to pull together a group of people together to go to rib fest on the 10th and see Cheap Trick. I think my son would enjoy it. I don't forsee it being a big party fest, since it's more family oriented, but at $6 a ticket, if we had to leave early, it wouldn't be much of a loss. I've invited some people, not sure who will make it. But, if it's just us, than we can play and have a good time together. He loves music and has never really seen a band in concert.

Still, no matter what I plan, I feel very disheartened. I did talk with a very good friend of mine from high school that reconnected with me, earlier this year. It was nice talking with him tonight. Kinda took my mind off things a bit, while at the same, allowed me to air to a unbiast ear. He feels that though my husband is stroking his ego right now, when I asked him to leave, if he didn't really feel we needed to split, he would have tried to find ways there of staying together. He also said that right now, he's partying again, like a single man in his early twenties, instead of a mid 30's man with a family at home. He said he's like a kid in a candy store right now.

I know that I shouldn't be thinking about what my husbands doing right now, but if there was a chance for working things out, morally he's on the wrong path and he's traveling down a road that leads to final disaster.

Though I feel like a failure, I think I need to cut our losses and make the first move to end result. I might be jumping the gun, but we can't recover from the path he's taking. Though he may not have yet, he will ultimately wash the bridge away with a bunch of drinks and a hurt ego. Then in my mind, the vows will be broken and there's no need to pursue it.

I'm rambling, but my mind just won't settle tonight. I finally at something after I put my son to bed. I had realized that in all the Chaos I hadn't eaten today. In the last week, I have lost 10 pounds due to stress. I think I force feed myself, because I can't get sick. I've got to take care of my boy.

My recovering from everything neighbor stopped by and she said "if you put one foot in yesterday and one foot in the future, you piss all over today". She definitely has a way of putting things.....but it's true. However, it's hard not to plan for the future, when the need of some certainty in life is there.
It all sounds great in theory, but tough to live that way.....

November 2, 2006
6:32 am
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Though suffering from lack of sleep, I woke up this morning feeling better. A new day and a fresh start. Wish is was cold out, so I could walk out the door and take a big breath of fresh air....well, maybe this weekend.

Today, I'm going to call an attorney and make an appointment. I have realized that it's time to move on, why waste any more time. It's been 15 years. I might regret it later, but then we both can move on. He's obviously anxious, but doesn't want to face it. He can't have his cake and eat it to.....

Living for today :] Will try to avoid set backs.....

November 2, 2006
9:53 am
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In the words of Aretha Franklin....

I've got a new attitude :]

November 2, 2006
12:34 pm
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GettingAGrip
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Or was it Patty Labelle?

November 2, 2006
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My son keeps evesdropping on my conversations and is learning entirely more than I want him to know. Since I'm his primary care giver and he's with me 24/7, at what point do I get a chance to talk with friends.

I really can only do it when he's around and not he's listening in and asking questions and knows way more than I think he should.

How can one talk through issues and troubles, when there's a little one around all the time. Of course wanting undivided attention and now hiding around corners so he can hear what's going on. Ugh.

I can't not talk through things, or I'll loose my mind right now.

Not sure how to handle this, but waiting for my son to mention something I've said to his father, then another ball will drop.....

November 3, 2006
12:29 pm
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The selfish-self center twit is forcing me to get a lawyer, as he wants to take away the house that his son is living in, when there's a second one, that he could live in, once a tenant was evicted. But, that's too easy.

See what happens when alcohol clouds the brain.

O.K. I'm done letting him piss all over my day.

:]

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