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Atalose,Sad Sack or anyone -need your input
January 1, 2009
2:02 pm
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2BHAPPY
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Today is a new year and I think I want to leave a lot of things behind. I still have this "friendship" with my gentleman friend, but I think I am going to leave that behind and be more careful. Just seems like I get a lot of mixed messages here. It is really not that I am imagining this. I know when a man wants friendship or not. Sometimes when he tells me things like "I like your conversation, most women that I meet dont have anything to say..we seem to have an ongoing rapport here" or I like women that are successful and the women I have met have not a penny to fall on or they are alcoholics or they have filed for bankruptcy or they owe too much money" Now when I told him about my dog, he immediately called me and asked me what he could do for me..well I told him he could come over if he liked because I was afraid the dog would die on me..He said he would be glad to keep me company..came over and had a great time as usual and the next day wrote and said he enjoyed his time with me. Its like he is constantly complimenting me..telling me how much money he has saved and how he wants to buy a beach house and how he wants to spend the rest of his life with someone special and how he cannot enjoy anything he has unless it is with someone special...These are all mixed messages to me. A few days ago I called him and asked him what he was doing for NYE and he just said he was going to be home alone..so I asked him if he wanted to spend it with me as I was going to church and he said no. Well this morning I have decided to never contact this man again...I really dont like the mixed messages and trust me I do get them from him..it is not my imagination. I have deleted his number and dont plan on calling him at all. I cannot treat him as a friend because he doesnt talk to me like a friend..he talks about a future..about what he likes, wants to know what I like and so forth..but yet cant even get himself to ask me out and get to know me in a romantic setting. I dont mind friendships..but dont waste my time and my emotions leading me on to something that he may have to intentions to pursue. I already have plenty of male friends and at least they are honest with me and want to date me romantically, except that I dont like them that way and I MAKE IT VERY CLEAR TO THEM.

Anyway..just thought I share my feelings today.

 

 

2bHappy

January 1, 2009
3:34 pm
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atalose
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2BHAPPY,

I am sorry you are feelings so frustrated with this man and with knowing exactly what kind of relationship this really is. I know you are hurt that he said no about attending church with you on NYE and now that hurt is leading you down the typical codependency road.

Lets talk about how you know when a man wants friendship or not……So, what is this man telling you? Are you saying he doesn’t want a friendship or are you saying he does want a friendship (only) and you want more?

Lets talk about his mixed messages.

He told you that he enjoys your conversation because most woman he has met does not have anything to say and that the two of you seem to have an ongoing rapport here………..so what’s mixed about this compliment to you? Are you reading into it that you are better then these other woman he has met so there for he has found the woman he is looking for?

And when he says that the other woman he’s met who have either filed bankruptcy or owes allot of money with no savings, do you see yourself as better then those other woman because you have money and don’t own allot and have not filed for bankruptcy so there for he has found the woman he is looking for?

I think because you (don’t) fit into the category of woman that so far have not met his standards you think then that you automatically do so there for he must ask you out???? Is that how you are thinking when he makes these very general observations?

I think your angry because you do want more then this man is giving at the moment and you got your feelings hurt when he said no to your invitation about church last night.

Us codies throw the baby out with the bath water all the time based on our ill emotions that get out of control.

Maybe he is just not into church and that is why he turned the invite down but I am sure after he mentioned he would be home alone then told you no you read it as he’s rather be home alone then with you.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

January 1, 2009
5:25 pm
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2BHAPPY
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Yes Atalose, I am feeling very hurt today but maybe it is best if I am feeling this way...to let the friendship go. He says I am within his age group, that I am very attractive, we enjoy the same things..always always compliments everything I do, how I decorate my house. Always writes back thank me. I have a lot of friends and they dont go out of their way like this.

So if I am reading wrong into this..then I feel that perhaps its best that I let this friendship go..then I am thinking that perhaps I've already messed it up by asking him for NYE. Maybe scared him away.

He always tells me that he doesnt like to do things on his own..so I really thought he would jump at the idea.

I really dont want to feel this way. For the first time a man is really behaving like a gentleman and I am feeling like this. Perhaps all he wants is friendship...but I cant do this to myself. Seems foolish to be with someone who things that you are so great and doesnt want to take it a step further.

I have my other friend who happens to be a doctor..he hasnt stopped calling me to see if I want to do something with him.. Today instead of going out with him, I am home. Now he wants to go out tomorrow and I really dont want to see him..I've already told him a million times that I am not interested romantically. I did like him at one time but something happenned (another story) and I totally lost the attraction but have remained friends.

Anyway, how do I handle this dilemma with my new friend...Its been 4 months since we met. He didnt ask me to go out with him until 2 months later...so we really have been interacting since middle of October and when we are together is no less than 3 hours..so that is a lot of getting to know each other.

 

 

2bHappy

January 1, 2009
5:27 pm
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2BHAPPY- The one thing that hit me between the eyes is that this man places a high value or priority on a womans financial assets. He has expensive taste. But what it sounds like he might be telling you is he wants a woman who is financially independent you know one he wouldnt have to support. I imagine that you are an attractive woman, who has nice things and is financially independent.

With some men they put material posessions ahead of a relationship.

From what you describe he doesnt sound like the type that is motivated by love and affection.

He does sound like he lacks romatic qualities as in holidays arent important to him and he hasnt been affectionate.

He said he wants someone special but did not indicate it was you.

If the most important thing to you is love and affection then he's not the one.

If you are into nice things and probably winding up with a man who thinks you pay your way baby and I'll pay mine then stick around.

The more non-romantic, unaffectionate a man is the longer he takes to fall in love. And these types are usually attracted to a woman who has the physical qualties they desire.

Since he was dissing less fortunate females he sounds critical.

I have met men like this before, and when I walk away I feel like I dodged a bullet and chalk them up to nothing more than a wast of my time.

January 1, 2009
6:55 pm
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Now I'm totally confused.

When I read your first post, I read about one problem and was prepared to express my opinion on that. Then I read on and saw that you are already talking about a different guy.

I specifically remember you talking about this doctor before. You said you had no interest whatsoever (I forget the entire story, though). How does your feelings change in a matter of 24 hours?

I understand being hurt that the hiker did not accept your invitation to go to church and celebrate new year's eve with you.

But I don't understand why that means he should be completely cut out of your life. You admitted that he was genuinely a nice,kind, intelligent and respectful man. WHy are you throwing that out the window just because he declined your invite?

There could have been any number of reasons why he chose not to accept. Why do you automatically attach a negative meaning behind his action?

I remember that the topic of your last thread was your neediness and how you wanted to stop being that way. But, here I am sensing that that characteristic is still guiding your actions/behaviors.

Genuine,healthy relationships need to develop slowly. You seem to want to rush everything along and then when the other person is not acting as quickly as you do, then you get angry/disappointed/frustrated and you want to end things.

You don't HAVE to have a man in your life. Why are you settling for that doctor who you, yourself, said was someone you were not interested in? Did you all of a sudden become interested just because the other guy turned down your offer to spend the evening with you?

I'm sorry 2BHAPPY, I just get the impression that your extreme desire to have a man in your life is clouding your judgement.

You asked for my opinion so here it is. I think you should keep the relationship with the doctor on the platonic level. And you should continue the friendship with the hiker and see where it goes. He seems like a nice guy. What is wrong with establishing a new friendship (if that is all it is going to be)? Perhaps, it may develop into something more meaningful. Stop rushing things!!!!!!

sad

January 1, 2009
7:36 pm
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You know, I just re-read your last post and I think I might have misunderstood (somewhat).

I was confused by your last paragraph. "how do I handle this dilemma with my new friend....?" Which friend are you talking about? I thought you were talking about the doctor but now I believe I was mistaken. I am sorry that I misunderstood.

sad

January 1, 2009
9:54 pm
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2B:

I think you're overreacting to his decline of your offer to spend NY Eve together.

I think the holidays put a lot of pressure on people, especially people who are dating. NY Eve is THE biggest date night of the year (right?) and maybe he didn't want to lead you on by accepting your invitation.

You say he's giving mixed messages by talking about things he wants in a woman, but he hasn't directed these wants to you specifically, has he? He's just speaking in generalities? Has he mentioned any other women he's dating?

He may very well be considering you for dating, but just not to the point of asking you. And dating is just dating- doesn't hold any promises for the future.

My opinion is that you should unblock him and try to be patient and see what he does from here on. If he indeed was considering you for dating, I think your reaction would tell him to change his mind.

Did he give a reason for declining your offer? He may simply have not wanted to go to church that night. Maybe he'll ask you out now that you've shown interest.

He may be getting mixed messages from you too. I would suggest just holding the course and see what happens. You seem to like his friendship and maybe thats all he has to offer. And its not so bad having him for a friend and going hiking occasionally, is it?

I know its hard for most women to make a move, and just because you did and he said no doesn't mean he doesn't want to see you anymore, on whatever level. I think if he realized he was blocked he's gonna think twice about you now.

sd

January 1, 2009
11:01 pm
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Ok..Let me clarify my relationship with the doctor. He has been a good friend of mine for some years. We have gotten closer as friends ONLY in the last 3 years. He knows about my dating life and he has stood by me through a few things in my life..my father's death, now my dog's illness and during times when he feels lonely..he reaches out to me. I dont date him because at one point when I was interested in him, he had some on and off dysfunctional relationship so in my eyes, he lost the appeal.

With the hiker...my only hesitation right now is if in all this interaction, I fall in love with him and it is not returned. When he speaks about what he is looking for a woman...he does say that I have what he is looking for...age, interests, conversation, independence....and when he talks about him..he also has the quality that I am looking for and the more I learn about him through our interactions..the more I like him.

I dont have him blocked...we dont communicate that way..but I have deleted his phone number so that I am never tempted to call him like I did this past weekend. He hasnt even written or called to wish me Happy New Year like my friends have.

I have asked him if he is dating anyone and he has said no..Even tells me he doesnt date and that its very hard for him to find a woman that he would be interested in as he is very selective and as he put it "selective like me" in picking a romantic interest. Too many bad experiences.

He has no idea that I have crossed him off in my mind..so he can reach me if he wants to hike or not..Just not going to make a fool of myself again.

 

 

2bHappy

January 2, 2009
12:23 am
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2B: I don't think asking him to join you on NY Eve is making a fool of yourself. He turned down the "outing" but he didn't turn down your friendship, right? Nothing wrong with that at all.

I know exactly what you mean by him not emailing to say Happy New Year. I am dating someone and he didn't contact me today either. But he did call yesterday and wish me a Happy New Year and let me know what he was doing last night. And he came over on Xmas eve and brought me presents, I was thrilled and I think he showed then that he cares about me.

I was fretting up a storm about NY Eve and had myself in a tizzy over it.

I think its essential in dating to learn to be patient and also to not have high expectations. I know that all my fretting was all for naught, that I WILL see him again, I just didn't get to see him last night. But when I get like that I want to forget about all the good stuff and go straight to the negative and make rash decisions- not a good way for me to behave.

So I can relate to your thought process and your reactions. and I know from experience its good to take a deep breath, try to separate from the negative reactions and usually things turn out OK without taking drastic meazsures.

Did you think about emailing him to say Happy New Year? I am learning that men like to be called and contacted too. As long as it isn't incessant, and communication is kept casual I think its OK.

sd

January 2, 2009
12:48 am
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2BHappy- The thing that caught my attention was the fact that you said somethng about "fall in love" and "feeling very hurt" in the same breath in regards to this man. It would help to figure out why you are attracted to men that make you feel bad.

January 2, 2009
1:01 am
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Destiny,

I was talking about the "future" if and when I fall in love by being around him so much. I like him a lot because he is someone I have a lot in common with and we do have fun when we are together..He does not make me feel "bad" at all. I have never been with anyone or stayed with anyone that made me feel bad..If you read my post you will note that I have nothing but nice things to say about him and he thinks very nice about me.

SD...That is so nice that your date spent Xmas with you and bought you presents..I wish I was at that level and that is where I want to get to..but I dont know and not sure where this is going. I always thougth that if 2 people got along well, were attracted to each other and share a lot of the same values..it would be easy to date..but I dont know if he is being super cautious because of bad experiences that he has shared with me or that he just likes friendships. But I am posting because I want to get my feelings out and get your input and protect myself so that I dont get over my head here. I have to practice being patient which I am not at all.

 

 

2bHappy

January 2, 2009
6:23 am
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Ok, firstly Happy New Year to you.

I do not know the full extent of your story, but hear goes.

Letting go is an art. And yes it is bloody difficult. Everytime your head goes off on these people, stay focused on building up yourself. Put so much effort into you, that when they do come knocking on your door, you have a full life, and you may be able to fit them in. Do not be in so much of a hurry. Relationships of any kind take time, patience, and bonding of any kind comes with trust.

Xmas and the new year brings many commitments and feelings up in all people. Some people withdraw as a way of protecting themselves, so people need others. It is a strange time of year for all people.

Wait, get on with your own life and when he comes back you can take it all from there.

Do not be in so much of a hurry. Let him earn your friendship. Dont forget you are the Gold in your life. Treat yourself like so.

love xxx

January 2, 2009
12:01 pm
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atalose
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2BHAPPY,

You explained yourself perfectly: You said “I have to practice being patient which I am not at all”. Your impatience is attempting to rush something that is not ready to be rushed.

You said in reference to SD who’s bf spent xmas with her that “I wish I was at that level and that is where I want to get to…but I don’t know and not sure where this is going. That’s the problem in a nut shell, you are sure where this is going or if it will ever go to the level you wish so you worry and become frustrated. Another sign of impatience.

If I remember didn’t you say at one point he asked you out on a date and you turned him down? Could it be possible he accepted you were not interested in him like that so he is accepting “just” a friendship with you?

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

January 2, 2009
1:56 pm
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Thank you Atalose..you are always "right on". I am not really sure if he asked me out or not. We went to coffee after our hike one time and we had a great time just reading the paper in between our conversation. I mentioned having gone to Sedona, AZ one time by myself and he said he really loved that place and said to let him know next time I go and he will go with me.

So my New Year's resolution in regard to this person is...dont ever call him...do not write an initiate any outing..just respond to his emails..I will still go hiking with him for a little while longer and then stop if nothing happens. The thing is that I do like him to be more than a friend...I like that he is smart, we have the same interests..both our spouses cheated on us and we have never remarried after many years...we have had bad experiences in our dating life and we do have some great conversations together.. In order to protect myself I will have to exit at one point..If I didnt like him, then I wouldnt be feeling this way and we could be friends forever..I have a lot of male friends like that and we get together about every few months and catch up on things and we talk about our dating life, etc. This is different though. Right now I think not seeing for a few weeks would be good..I dont really see my male friends that much..so why see this one every week?

 

 

2bHappy

January 4, 2009
12:11 pm
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Its Cody here again.

I havent heard from him since last Sunday when I invited him for NYE. He did mentioned during that conversation that we would go this weekend and today is Sunday and nothing. I think I scared him away and unless I write to him I feel that he is gone now. Probably my Codie personality speaking..but it could be the truth. Perhaps he thought I was trying to rush things.

I will definitely miss my new friend as we had a lot fun together..I hope that I dont weaken and do call him like I did the last time and reached out to him. I dont want to be the one to always make the initiative..Friendships are between 2 people and he should take the initiative to make contact.

 

 

2bHappy

January 4, 2009
12:50 pm
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Hi 2BHappy,

Perhaps you did scare him away and then again maybe you did not. At this point, there is no way to tell. Only he knows the answer to that.

Perhaps, he is very busy and preoccupied with something else (something legitimate). Perhaps, he may be thinking that he disappointed you and is backing off for that very reason. Really, we could only guess at this time.

I wouldn't consider you to be weak if you contacted him. How about a very brief e-mail saying something like "weather seems perfect for a hike - would you be interested?".

I think the key is not to come on too strong. That will definitely scare him away.

The view that I take is that finding someone we are compatible with is so rare, that I am not so willing to just let a possible friendship go so easily. Of course, if he shows no interest, then you have no choice but to terminate the relationship. But I haven't gotten the impression that that is the case here (well, not yet anyway).

You know I wish you well. Please let us know what happens with this situation. I am rooting for a happy outcome.

sad

January 4, 2009
1:23 pm
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atalose
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2BHAPPY,

We "lose" our car keys, TV remote and book of stamps....those are "things" we possess........we can't LOSE people, because they were never OURS to begin with. As we become more fully actualized we learn the art of thoughtfully inviting people into our lives, and gracefully allowing them to exit........

I’d allow the ball to stay in his court and do my best to not reach out right away, allow some time to pass and then if you still feel like making contact take Sad’s suggestion with a very brief e-mail.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

January 4, 2009
1:33 pm
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thank you Sad Sack and Atalose,

I really need your help in this one so that I dont screw things up even more. When would be a good time to write him a short email? It has been a week since I called him and invited him for NYE..

I hate to leave this with him running off because I've scared him away..Now I know that I can only expect the friendship from him and that is probably all that he can offer...feeling like I made a fool of myself and want to undo it and if the friendship will end..just want to do it in a tactful way.

Please help me do this in a way that my co-dependent personality and my abandonment issues will not make things any worse.

thanks..I really appreciate your input

 

 

2bHappy

January 5, 2009
12:16 pm
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It has been 1 week and 1 day and didnt hear from him..we have never gone this long without communication..but of course sometimes its me writing and he writes back and then we continue...I dont know what to do. I am embarrassed after asking him to go out on NYE and dont know how he took this. It may be nothing and it may be that I am always the one to connect with him when a few days have gone by and I dont hear from him. I really want to neutralize this and continue our friendship..I will get over the romantic part. I know that I have done that with other male friends and we have continued our friendship and its very nice now.

My codie personality is really playing out here. I wish I could just forget and continue with my full life which I do..I do a lot of things and there are a lot of things to be happy about..This weekend went to a hockey game and had private suite while watching the game..what a treat....last night my daughter's boyfriend asked for her hand in marriage and he will take her to Paris to propose to her..but he wanted to ask me first...he is so sweet and very much in love with her.

I know I will get over this one..it always does...but I really hate to lose a good friend..or rather someone who came into my life temporarity and then moved on...but I am taking responsibility for that. I rushed things and I scared him off.

 

 

2bHappy

January 5, 2009
12:37 pm
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Hi,

First, congratulations on the engagement of your daughter. Her future husbands sounds very thoughtful and sweet. I know you must be so happy.

Second, I have to repeat the advice that I previously gave you. I would try one more brief email and see what his response is to that one. If he doesn't respond, then I guess you have your answer.

As I said, there may be any number of reasons why he hasn't contacted you. Only he knows the answer to that one.

If he has lost interest, then there is really nothing that you can do. I realize how painful that would be for you because I can see you have feelings for this guy. But, you will get through it. Let's try to be optimistic for now and see what happens.

Remember the cliche, "nothing ventured, nothing gained." You have nothing to lose by trying. Make the communication brief and to the point. Then see what happens.

I wish you the best.

sad

January 5, 2009
12:51 pm
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I agree with Sad a brief email then wait for his response. I would wait another week before I sent this brief email and I would keep it very general. If you want to see if he wants to hike then I would go with what Sad originally posted “weather seems perfect for a hike – would you be interested?” period. Don’t go any further, don’t tell him about your daughter’s engagement, nothing, keep it simple and direct to the point.

And congratulations on your daughter’s engagement!

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

January 6, 2009
11:26 am
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Just an update on my feelings today. I am thinking that perhaps I should just leave things alone...not call or do anything else. Think I have already done enough...Maybe all he wanted was friendship and I took it the wrong way..although the way he goes around this is wrong because you dont tell a woman about all the things you are looking for and how great she is and how much you enjoy her company and so forth and not expect her to think that you like her for romantic posibilities. I feel really stupid now..This coming Saturday the group where we met will be getting together again and I dont know if he will be there...but if we dont talk before that and neutralize this whole thing..I am going to feel so stupid. What will he be thinking about my invitations to things other than hike? Why didnt I leave things alone and acted so eager to include him in my life and share so much about myself? Most likely he will be there and perhaps he goes around this group approaching women the same way. I also noticed that he belongs to another group for dining and theater..didnt notice before. Maybe he has other females in that group that he enjoys going out to dinner and theater..who knows what this man is all about. Then he gives me this story about how he doesnt date and is too shy to approach women at supermarkets, etc.

I feel so stupid now..how do I undo this? For sure now he thinks I am hurt over him not joining me at such a personal time as New Years Eve celebration...and how stupid of me inviting him to my home..this was not supposed to be this way...we were supposed to get together for exercise....not personal stuff.

Why would a man ask me about personal stuff like my dating life, why my relationships ended..what was I looking for...what do I enjoy..and then compliment me so much about who I am, the great time he had with me, and lots more..it was hours and hours of talking.

What do I do at this point? I know I am going to see this man again and I dont want to be embarrased..

 

 

2bHappy

January 6, 2009
11:45 am
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2BHappy,

Sweetheart don't be embarassed about yourself. You did nothing wrong. So you jumped a little, I would have done the same thing. He did led you to beleive he had an interest, so you took the risk...no big deal. Go on your hike and say Hi and do your thing and see what happens.

My concern is: He tells you he is shy and doesn't date but yet he has a dinner/theater group, so he must do some sort of dating.

Becareful with him, until you find more about him. Start asking him things and other people about him.

You can do this. You are worth it. You deserve it.

Love, Z

January 6, 2009
11:49 am
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Hi 2BHappy,

I wish you would stop beating yourself over this. And stop overanalyzing every thing he said and everything you said/did.

You were not stupid at all. STOP THAT!!!

I think the average person would have gotten the notion that he was interested beyond friendship.

He admitted to you that he was very shy and uncomfortable and awkward in approaching women. Perhaps, he is just anxious about taking this a step further. I think many of us don't really listen when people tell us who we are. My exbf told me that he "sucked at relationships" and it was awhile before I realized that yes, he does really "suck" at relationships.

I wanted to ask you how you found out he also belongs to a group for dining out/going to the theatre? Do you think that perhaps you are overstepping some boundaries and digging where you shouldn't be digging?

If you want to just let this be, then that is your business. But the way that you are agonizing over this, makes me wonder if that is the best possible way to go.

What harm would there be to try one more time? Perhaps, (as I have said before) he feels that he disappointed you and is afraid to approach you. This is all very hard because we don't know what is going on with him. If I were you, I would give it one more try. But, of course, if you don't want to do that, then so be it.

Let us know what you have decided. And again, please stop torturing yourself over your actions. No one is perfect and you need to accept that about yourself.

Try to have a peaceful day.

sad

January 6, 2009
11:58 am
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atalose
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2B,

What if you had met a woman in your hiking club who you seem to hit it off with friendship wise? What if this new friend asked questions about your dating life, past relationships and why they ended? What if this new friend gave you compliments and told you they really had fun with you and enjoyed the talks and walks (hikes). That’s a healthy new friendship and how friendships begin and grow.

The difference here is that you have developed romantic feelings for this guy and wish those feelings would be reciprocated.

You said “Maybe all he wanted was friendship and I took it the wrong way. Although the way he goes around this is wrong because you don’t tell a woman about all the things you are looking for and how great she is and how much you enjoy her company and so forth and not expect her to think that you like her for romantic possibilities”.

Again getting back to building healthy new relationships maybe you have taken his words to much to heart and assumed his words enmeshed around you and your wants and needs. We often attempt to force the square peg into the round hole in order to suit our own needs. I am not saying he was not true in his compliments to you or the fact he enjoyed spending time with you but just because he mentions what kind of woman along with her financial status he is looking for and you feel you fit that mold, then you assume he should be romantically interested in you. That’s how our codependency makes us think.

You mention he told you he doesn’t date and is shy about approaching woman. Maybe what he is giving you is all he is able to give to you or any other woman.

You also mentioned that he never e-mails you first you always have to initiate them. So then sitting around waiting for him to do something he’s not really ever done before then being mad because he hasn’t, is a waist of your time and energy.

As far as neutralizing this, there is nothing to neutralize expect your inner thinking and attitudes.

Learn from this experience; learn not to act so eager to include new people in too much of your life too quickly.

I would go to this event with my head held high my attitude in check and be nice and cordial to him.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

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