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Atalose,anyone -boyfriend asked this question
September 13, 2009
9:04 pm
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2BHAPPY
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Last night my boyfriend and I had a long conversation..it started out with him asking me how if I was ever disabled or could not make any money...how I was going to support myself and keep up the payments on my homes.

As you know I am self employed and I have 3 homes..one I live in and the others are rented out. The whole idea about buying these other homes was for retirement purposes..but with the economy the way it is...they are not worth a lot right now...but maybe in another 3 or 4 years I can sell and make some money for retirement.

He especifically wanted to know if I had any savings to sustain me for at least a year in case of any catastrophe. Then he suggested that I buy some kind of disability insurance..but I have checked and they are very expensive.

Kind of took me by surprise and I wanted to get your opinion before I jump into my own conclusions.

 

 

2bHappy

September 13, 2009
10:34 pm
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fantas
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Well, I think asking these questions is important. I think anyone with three homes, can comfortably say they have a year's worth of savings to sustain themselves. I also think the market will bounce back sooner than 3-4 years. Disability insurance is great but there might be other forms of insurance that might be more beneficial to you if you research them. Do you think he is afraid he might have to take care of you? is it normal for him to bring these kinds of concern up, or is it completely out of the blue? How long have you known each other and how serious is the relationship?

September 13, 2009
11:07 pm
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Yes..I think he is afraid that he would have to take care of me and that I am interested in his money. At least that is what I am getting. We have been dating for 7 months and known him for 13 months. I would say the relationship is serious.

 

 

2bHappy

September 13, 2009
11:25 pm
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sdesigns
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If that is the case, do you think his concerns are valid? or not?

September 13, 2009
11:45 pm
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fantas
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If I were in your shoes, I would want to get to the bottom of his interest. I would want him to tell me why he was so concerned about my future financial welfare. If he is considering marriage, which might be the only time he would be legally obligated to take care of me, then we can discuss the logistics of that so his concerns are addressed.

Otherwise, I would encourage him not to worry about me too much and concentrate on the now. As a codependent, I have learned to stay away from people who only see me as half full. If he is looking at me and seeing all that could go wrong, then I wouldn't want to be around that because it plays into my insecurities and make me feel like I'm not enough. I also wouldn't want anyone to be with me conditionally. When two people meet, the connect regardless of their circumstances.

If there are circumstances that are concerning, then they should be addressed directly as they relate to the relationship. If my debt, for example, was a big enough problem for my partner, then I would want to know this before I spent too much time in relationship and got emotionally invested in it. 13 months is too long, IMO, to start sort of discussing these issues without a definite direction.

September 14, 2009
12:39 am
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Fantas..thank you..your remark about the half full is just what I was thinking...He is always thinking about what could go wrong. I am also not feeling as if I am good enough..even though I am a hard working person..have done a lot for myself and so far I've never had to bother anyone for money.

True, I could get sick and not be able to work and lose everything I have...but the way I am..I always look for solutions and ways to get ahead even when I have been sick.

and like you said...I also dont want any conditions on my relationship.

He said that he was just trying to be nice and make me think about these things..but knowing him I know he just wants to protect his income and not take on the responsibilities that come with having a mate.

Chances are that I will be doing really good pretty soon..and when real estate gets better..I will have a nice nest egg. I am not really worried...but he did make me think..not just about myself and my finances..but my future relationship with him.

 

 

2bHappy

September 14, 2009
10:00 am
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atalose
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I think the number one absolute issue here is what you said: “I am not feeling as if I am good enough”.

I think money is an issue for you all around so his comments to you have hit a nerve.

This guy is frugal and has all HIS I’s doted and T’s crossed when it comes to HIS retirement and HIS money philosophy. You have a different money philosophy, one that obviously works for you other wise it would be different.

I believe him when he says he was having this talk to be nice and to get you to think about things. I wouldn’t read MORE into it especially since you’ve only been dating him 7 months.

You don’t want to become the codie contortionist and mold yourself into what YOU THINK he wants you to be in order to secure some kind of guaranteed future with him.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

September 14, 2009
11:10 am
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Hi Atalose,

Thanks for your reply..One thing I did first thing this morning I called a major insurance company to get disability insurance. I guess it was good that he brought this up and made me think about what could happen to me especially being alone.

I havent talked to him since yesterday morning when I suddenly announced to him that I had a lot of things to do and he was quite surprised that I was leaving him on a Sunday.

This conversation over the disability or savings insurance was on Saturday...but we also had another money conversation on Friday and 2 days in a row was too much for me.

On Friday he confronted me about me not offering to pay half my share of the vacation. I was never part of his planning and had he asked me to contribute half I would have insisted on going during the holiday weekend and taken just an additional 2 days from work as I lose a LOT of money when I am off an entire week. He didnt want to travel during the holiday weekend. Taking a whole week off would have been ok on a trip that I really wanted to go..we were just going on a hiking trip and by the 3rd day of hiking for 3 or 4 hours each day..I was very tired and we didnt even go do any of the water sport that I enjoy participating in even though I offered to pay for that. I bought the groceries and I cooked for a few of the nights.. We only went out to dinner once and I offered to pay and he insisted that I dont. I paid him for some gas going there and coming back.

I insisted and gave him a check for half the accommodation on Saturday which he said he wasnt going to cash..I told him I felt better about writing the check and he could do whatever he wanted with it. After the conversation on Friday we went out to dinner and once again he insisted on paying and didnt even let me pay for the tip. He said it wasnt the money..but the principle. He knew that I had had a tough summer with making money at work and my renter destroying my rental wherein I had to spend a lot of money to fix it. I wasnt about to offer to pay half a vacation that I did not plan and was at a time that I didnt have the money. He said that I never communicated that to him..but I didnt think I had to because it was very obvious. I really thought that he was changing and he was becoming generous..but I was wrong.

Anyway...the real issue for me about the back up savings or disability is his always thinking about money and I felt that he would not be there for me in case I got sick or needed his help. I have never really thought about any catastrophe in my life as I tend to be very positive...but in some ways he is right and I need to take better care of myself financially.

Anyway.. I am feeling like I want out of this again. I just dont know how much money is enough for him at his age...he has already taken care of his future.

 

 

2bHappy

September 14, 2009
11:10 am
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Hi Atalose,

Thanks for your reply..One thing I did first thing this morning I called a major insurance company to get disability insurance. I guess it was good that he brought this up and made me think about what could happen to me especially being alone.

I havent talked to him since yesterday morning when I suddenly announced to him that I had a lot of things to do and he was quite surprised that I was leaving him on a Sunday.

This conversation over the disability or savings insurance was on Saturday...but we also had another money conversation on Friday and 2 days in a row was too much for me.

On Friday he confronted me about me not offering to pay half my share of the vacation. I was never part of his planning and had he asked me to contribute half I would have insisted on going during the holiday weekend and taken just an additional 2 days from work as I lose a LOT of money when I am off an entire week. He didnt want to travel during the holiday weekend. Taking a whole week off would have been ok on a trip that I really wanted to go..we were just going on a hiking trip and by the 3rd day of hiking for 3 or 4 hours each day..I was very tired and we didnt even go do any of the water sport that I enjoy participating in even though I offered to pay for that. I bought the groceries and I cooked for a few of the nights.. We only went out to dinner once and I offered to pay and he insisted that I dont. I paid him for some gas going there and coming back.

I insisted and gave him a check for half the accommodation on Saturday which he said he wasnt going to cash..I told him I felt better about writing the check and he could do whatever he wanted with it. After the conversation on Friday we went out to dinner and once again he insisted on paying and didnt even let me pay for the tip. He said it wasnt the money..but the principle. He knew that I had had a tough summer with making money at work and my renter destroying my rental wherein I had to spend a lot of money to fix it. I wasnt about to offer to pay half a vacation that I did not plan and was at a time that I didnt have the money. He said that I never communicated that to him..but I didnt think I had to because it was very obvious. I really thought that he was changing and he was becoming generous..but I was wrong.

Anyway...the real issue for me about the back up savings or disability is his always thinking about money and I felt that he would not be there for me in case I got sick or needed his help. I have never really thought about any catastrophe in my life as I tend to be very positive...but in some ways he is right and I need to take better care of myself financially.

Anyway.. I am feeling like I want out of this again. I just dont know how much money is enough for him at his age...he has already taken care of his future.

 

 

2bHappy

September 14, 2009
11:33 am
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fantas
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I think what the two of you have here is a value difference in regards to money and I think life in general. He is coming from what I would term a poverty/scarcity/ mentality and you have an abundant/plenty one. As long as the two of do not communicate with each other regarding the basic values motivating your relationships with yourselves, and life in general, this issue/attitude will move from money, to love, to friends and other things.

If you both had the exact same amount of money, expenses, savings, etc. he would still fear what the future would bring while you are enjoying your fortunes. He would spend sleepless nights anticipating all kinds of tragedies while you plan vacations and busk in the glory of your days. This is a deeper issue.

You do need to plan for your future, but why is he so worried if he has already planned for his? He might encourage you to do something but it shouldn't become a daily conversation. Also, the fact that he knew you were hurting financially in the summer,didn't consult you to see if you could afford the trip and didn't appreciate that you actually bought stuff says a lot about him.

He sounds like a tallier. He will keep a list of all he has done and when he feels like he is doing too much for you, then he will get upset or pull back until he thinks things are even again. Goes back to that whole poverty/deprived mentality. He sees no virtue and deprives no joy from giving all he can of himself to even loved ones. He may not truly get that to live and abundant life you have to be abundant. He may think that you need to hold onto what you have just in case you loose it.

Does this sound like him?

September 14, 2009
12:02 pm
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Fantas..in some ways you are right..About him being a tallier..then everything comes up during a confrontation.

I dont think he worries about how much money I spend as long as it is not his. He has told me that if I wanted to go anywhere to a place that I would like to go..that he doesnt mind if we stay at a luxury place as long as I pay for it. He really wants this to be equal all the way..but the thing is that I feel that he just wants to save his money to keep as much money on his living trust...In the meantime, I am spending my time and my money and someone who doesnt think enough of me to take care of me financially if something should happen me. It is not that this will happen because I would never ask anyone for money for any reason..I am too proud for that.

I am not sure what I want to do at this point. If to break up with him or just go along for a little while ALWAYS pay my meals and not allowed him to do or not even order any food if I dont think I can afford it or dont even want to eat that. I just feel that the last two months that he has shown to be generous have been lie and I can probably go along and show him I dont need his money for anything until I completely fade away.

 

 

2bHappy

September 14, 2009
12:06 pm
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atalose
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I think what disturbs me the most 2B is you saying: “The real issue for you is that you felt that he would NOT be there for you in case you got sick or needed his help”….. and this regarding finances…..this a only a 7 month NEW relationship and you are seeking him to financial support you if you get sick and have no income……..what a major burden you are putting on him and at the same time setting yourself up for such disappointment with this 7 month NEW relationship.

It sounds like he’s pointed out something an independent woman would do for herself ----disability insurance as apposed to a DEPENDENT woman expecting a man to take care of her.

You will always have money issues between you as money seems to be a big issue for you in your life.

I agree with fantas as he is a tallier but then again I see you like that as well. Keeping score all the time of what he’s paid for and what he’s not paid for. How much he spends on his daughter, etc. etc.

How come when he was planning this trip you didn’t speak up and tell him you couldn’t afford it…..because you couldn’t say that could you because money is an issue for you and you don’t want him to know the real truth the real true you, money issues and all, and that’s why you are feeling like you want to flee. It’s not about him or his money it’s about YOU and MONEY, LACK OF and YOUR insecurities about that.

You’ve know who he is he’s shown you who and how he is with money, this is no surprise and this is NOT going to go away, it is what it is and he is how he is, period.

Yes he has taken care of his future, good for him he’s been very responsible with his money and thought enough of himself to do it.

Sounds like you are jumping way ahead of where this relationship really is and with tremendous expectations.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

September 14, 2009
12:12 pm
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2B:

Some people never have enough, and I think its a safety net mentality that fantas is talking about (Fantas- you described my father to a T!).

They have an unhealthy attachment to money and cannot enjoy the fruits of their labor freely.

When you were describing your finacial difficulties awhile back with the renter, I knew in my mind that your bf was going to have a problem with that. He likes stability and safety, right? And rental property is probably too risky for him. He probably has safe investments, checks his balances frequently, etc. Plus with the economy crash, he probably has less than before and will be even more frugal til that is somehow made up.

Since my father is a miser, I have struggled with the balance having money and spending money. Yes, there is need to be responsible but there is also the joy of having it.

I think if your bf wanted you to pay for half of the trip he should have discussed this with you up front, not afterwards. I recently turned down a trip with a guy because I haven't been working and therefore couldn't pay my share. And I wouldn't have it any other way, as I don't expect a man to pay my expenses, even if they can afford it.

I think your bf is probably pretty savvy about money and I don't think his suggesting a safety net, disability ins, etc is out of line, especially since you two seem to be serious. But I think he saw that maybe your finances got a little unstable there for awhile and thats not within his comfort zone.

I think there is some common ground as you both seem to have money and like money, its just how its handled that seems to be different.

sd

September 14, 2009
1:56 pm
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MsGuided
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I can agree with everyone here but this BF also exhibits very controlling and stingy behaviours.

GREAT if some investments are solid but what is that? Having cash savings in the bank, not money tied up in the stock market, or land/property that is still mortgaged.

BF has moved all his investments into a fund, has a retiremnt plan he's living off of, but YOU are still working and building.

You should be given more emotional support, positive enforcenment for your achievements.

People who want to build wealth do so by taking risks. There are no guarentees.You work hard and have a lot of GUTS. He shouldn't expect you to be in the same place as him.

Why does he plant seeds
of doubt and scold you for being a working woman, who has an active social life? Why are you bending, taking time off, when you can't afford to to satisfy his stringent standards.

Does he not CARE you took a week off work, LOST that income, then he tells you you should of offered paid half? He sounds a little cruel and self centred to me. he doesn't LISTEN to you unless it serves him.

Do you just want to serve him? (I wonder how his marriage was? how he treated his wife is probably what you'll get)

To me it seems he is manipulating you to do things HIS WAY most of the time, is passive aggresive, and controlling.

You wrote before you have a lot of problems regarding your social needs and him not enjoying outings that involve other people. He makes you feel guilty later, about enjoying parties. He sulks and gives you the silent treatment.

He's throwing the guilt card out again after a holiday?

A good partner can roll with the punches, changes, and not make a person feel guilty IN CASE the bottom drops out. As long as every possible effort is made to be responsible. You're doing that. may be a little overwhelmed. SO WHAT!< Help U for cryin out loud! Insurance covers the risk factor. He wants you to have a safety net since rental properties are not solid until they are paid off, or sold. This is good advice. But look at the whole picture. Is he putting you down or helping. What you worte shows me he tries to appear like he's helping , but he does it with some cruelty thrown in. Figure out if he is really what YOU need. I run my own business and when i have trouble my partner helps me at times. He isn't the best helper with some things but at least He doesn't make me feel bad for the job i do or when a problem arises. Your BF is stingy, when he doesn't need to be. If a person truly loves you , for long term, then they share and give more without making you feel guilty. They allow you the things you enjoy and NEVER try to keep you from them. It's not like you're so needy, don't work and aren't productive! They don't just point out your weakness's and make you feel doubtfull when you're happy, or when life throws a wrench in things. A very bad sign is when a man brings you down when you are happy, or refuses to help when you need it. He basically told you if the bottom drops out he's not going to support you. You're on your own. Yea, you do have reason to feel wary. Your gut is telling you what he really said. That is reasonable for the stage your at, but perhaps take a hard look at HIS whole package and decide if you want long term yourself. Maybe casual is the best it can get. I see you as a more vibrant person, who needs someone a little more social and generous. You deserve what you give not to be stifled.

September 17, 2009
10:28 am
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atalose
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2B,

How are you, I sense you may have become withdrawn due to the responses you received.

Just wanting you to know I am thinking about you.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

September 17, 2009
11:13 am
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Geez, 2B -

This has been going on for a long time. I recall your previous postings about this bf, your upset over his purchase of a car for his daughter (while nitpicking you on the payment of dinner tabs, etc.).

Money has been an issue in this potential relationship for quite some time. Honestly? I don't think you are ever going to be happy with this man. You, two, are on completely different playing fields when it comes to financial matters.

He does come across as stingy and miserly. Conversely, you are very concerned about what he does/does not spend on you, as well as his plans to provide (via a Trust) for his daughter, following his death.

Perhaps you would be happier with a man who has no children and no inheritance issues? Also, a man who is more generous (and less obsessed) with his finances? They're out there. I just don't see this working out between you and this man. It is really important for couples to be on the same page, regarding money. A plethora of divorces have sprung from this very issue!

- Ma Strong

September 17, 2009
11:29 am
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Hi Atalose,

Thanks for thinking of me. No, I havent withdrawn and I certainly appreciated everyone's input and they were mostly right.

I have been doing a lot of thinking on top of grieving my 14-1/2 year old dog's death.

I am really losing my desire to be with this man. He hasnt called me because he knows he messed up with me. I really dont want to speak with him and I dont miss him at all.

I am thinking that there is some emotional abuse going on because of the criticism I get. It seems like we do really good until I do something and then everything is bad..the past is brought up over and over again and when I do something once its like I do it all the time. While we were eating at a restaurant while on vacation...I had a really bad headache that lasted 2 or 3 days..and I probably forgot to thank the waitress...well he brought this up during an argument and I was shocked that he would say that because I am considered to be very courteous with everyone I meet. I am in business for myself and deal with every economic level. My cleaning people become very special in my life so its not like I look down at anyone. He said that I never thanked the waitress (I am the one makes sure he tips them the appropriate amount).

Another thing that came up was that I'd stopped paying for meals (but not all, I would still contribute whenever I thought we were going out too much. This came up in the argument too that I completely stopped when I didnt. I have my receipts to show and I also cooked at my house many times and made elaborate meals. When he invited me to vacation he never mentioned that I should have to pay my half. I took off the week before labor day because he didnt want to travel during the holiday. Had he asked me to contribute I would have said the weekend of labor day and just add another 2 days to the trip so that I dont close my business for an entire week. I paid for some of the gas, I bought the groceries and I cooked our meals at the condo and made sandwiches for our hiking trip. The one time we ate out..I said it was going to be on me and i was willing to go to an expensive restaurant because he had paid the condo.

Anyway, he brought all this up and said that I never volunteered to pay half the accomodations. I was so insulted by this that I immediately made out a check for half the condo..which he said he was not going to cash and it was not about the money but that I did not volunteer to pay..Well, he knew that my business was slow for the summer, he knew that my rental had costs me a lot of money repairing and he also knows that I lose a lot of money when I close my business.

Anyway, I hate to have to be writing about something that you guys already knew would happen..He was only being generous for a little while then he was going to throw it back at me.

This is a man that constantly mentions that he gets $10,000 a month on retirement, house and bills all paid off, he has $500,000 in savings and when his father dies he will inherit another million.

I havent heard from him and I dont miss him. I need to get back to my previous life of going out with friends, hiking in groups and just not being pressured about time like I used to be. I was giving up my social life for a relationship that is going nowhere and instead of making me happy..its just stressing me out. I had a good life before..maybe lonely at times but at least I could call a friend and say lets do something.

Thanks for letting me vent.

 

 

2bHappy

September 17, 2009
11:38 am
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Thanks MaStrong..I remember what you said before and Camer too..that he would eventually show his true colors.

I really he has changing and being generous and I was very happy about that. I thought his caring for me and wanting to have someone in his life was changing him.

Another thing that I found very insulting was that whenever he did something nice for me or was paying for dinner, I would say that he was so romantic and would say it with a very feminine tone and with a smile..and he repeated this phrase during our argument but mocked me with the same smile I gave him...that was so insulting.

During our argument, I let him say all that he had to say..he repeated all our previous arguments and I stayed quiet and let him run out of air..I didnt say a thing and he really thought we were ok after that. He took me out to dinner and once again INSISTED on paying for dinner..even though I pulled my money out.

 

 

2bHappy

September 17, 2009
5:49 pm
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2B,

I haven't read every bit of every post here, but I've been reading enough to know that this money issue has been an issue in your relationship since the beginning.

He insists on paying at restaurants, where everyone can see him "be generous"? And then later he whines about it? That would annoy and hurt me. If he wants to go "dutch", he should do it in the open. Sounds like he's conflicted about being generous, even sharing. So many of us from disfunctional backgrounds are. Giving and receiving can both be difficult.

It hurts me to hear about your arguments, too. Dragging up the past, attributing "sinister" motives to innocent things - it's really soul crushing. I've been on both sides of it. He's not "bad" for being the way he is, or "wrong", but you seem to need someone else. He had tried to change, but he seems too set in his ways, as are you, as am I, to be comfortable with the change.

He seems to get a lot of his self-esteem from how much money he has saved.

I'm sorry about this. Certainly some aspects of the relationship work, but as I said, the arguments you two have sound damaging. Neither one of you should really have to defend your spending or non-spending habits.

Good luck with pulling away from him. You've definitely given it a good shot, and I'm sure after your anger subsides, you'll realize you have to grieve the loss of what worked in the relationship. It's not personal, though. I think he cares for you, but he cannot be who you need him to be.

All the best to you. Better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all, right? Good for you for taking a chance and opening your heart to someone. You can take the good memories with you.

Mary

September 17, 2009
6:30 pm
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Thank you Mary..that was so sweet.

I have not had any contact with him since I left him on Sunday (to his surprise) I guess to him is that I cannot face any issues and I run away. But in reality I felt so attacked in every way. He attacked me on my handling my business, my rental business, my faith in God, my way of expressing myself. That I take as much money from people as they allowed me to..I was appalled by this comment. That my children cannot handle their business without me (our 14-1/2 year old dog was dying while I was on vacation with him and they were devastated and took the dog to the vet and were crying and calling me because it was my dog) I was upset while on vacation cause I couldnt be with my dog. My sweetheart of a dog waited for me to die. Anyway, I should not have gone on vacation.

I think the argument was just too much for one or 2 nights in a row and it was as if he wanted to bring everything out...not just the recent incidents..but the ones that I thought we had already discussed and settled. I just think he is a very angry man inside aside from being cheat and misery.

 

 

2bHappy

September 17, 2009
6:42 pm
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StronginHim77
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I was married to a man who sounds just like him...the marriage lasted two months. I finally left. He was narcissistic (per the psychologist we consulted). Check out narcissism on the web. You might find that he has many of the traits.

It's sort of the kiss of death to any relationship. Basically incurable.

- Ma Strong

September 17, 2009
7:05 pm
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Thank you Ma Strong...I think of you and your warnings before when he starts arguing.

I looked up Narcissism and although he had a lot of the traits..there were some that he was not at all.

Like he doesnt exaggerate his accomplishments at all, but likes to wear his USC ring where he got his Masters Degree....and always lets me know how much money he has saved and how much he gets in retirement. He does have concerns for others I think or at least he lets me to believe...but likes to talk about the difference races and has this generalization about the different races.

But he needs to be right all the time. Needs to be in control as he needs for me to give him all my free time and gets upset if I do something else. He likes to be in control in his own environment. Everything has to be neat and clean..He only uses one glass, one plate and one cookware (his grandmothers) Eats the same thing all the time.. Doesnt buy anything new at all. I dont think he ever goes to a mall to buy something new to wear.

 

 

2bHappy

September 17, 2009
7:07 pm
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Also, he thinks that looking up stuff on the internet is stupid..He kind of said to me that my education comes from looking things up on the internet..instead of a college degree.

 

 

2bHappy

September 17, 2009
7:20 pm
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sdesigns
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2B: I think you said he's a retired police sergeant?

I dated one earlier this year and I tell ya, I think they do have their issues. I was warned about dating a cop, and I can see why.

Mine was also a narcissist and I also think that they exhibit a sense of superiority and entitlement because of their law enforcement/ power positions.

They do make great money in retirement thanks to being a public employee, and in a strong union. Most of us don't get that or have that.

Plus being self employed takes a whole dif type of person, and my guy told me he would never be able to manage self employment- he needed the structure. And mine was an ex Marine (was yours) so there's a certain amount of structure and power implied by that as well.

And since I am self employed and very independednt I think my guy saw I couldn't be controlled or LIED to. He needed a much more submissive woman I think because I wasn't putting up with the stories and the games. So maybe I brought out insecuruites in him since he didn't have authority or power over me. Maybe your guy was like that too?

September 17, 2009
7:56 pm
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Yes, SD..He is a retired police sergeant and his career went a little bit beyond just regular people. Mine was not in the service..but managed to have a great education.

I dont get the sense that he lies to me..and he did admit to liking structure and routine.

His biggest problem comes from this upbringing. His father was as he calls him a "rageholic" and was very critical...His mother has been dead for several years and he stills critices her (although I dont hear that when I speak with the father about the mother) His father was not highly educated but he did very well with his money and taught his son the same. Now..whats difference is that his father did enjoy the fruit of his labor..both parents travelled the world a few times..although the father has not travel since his wife died and has become kind of recluse because of his health and living in a boarding home.

My issues with him are his money issues and the criticism and the constant bringing up of all stuff.

 

 

2bHappy

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