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at a crossroad...which way to go
September 10, 2006
6:26 pm
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honeyb
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We were high school sweethearts that was torn apart 30 years ago. We've been re-united after all of these years..he's an alcoholic..I am co-dependant. He says he will NEVER let the bad things he said or did to me happen again.....how can I ever trust him again?

September 10, 2006
7:02 pm
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ggfred4
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I am scared to give advice when I haven't been in your shoes, BUT, usually I say, listen to your heart...But I think I need to say, listen to your brain, not your heart in this instance. I am a non-trusting person, so it is hard for me to regain trust. I hope someone who has been in this situation responds and gives you better advice, but GOOD LUCK!!

September 10, 2006
8:16 pm
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honeyb
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thanks ggfred4..I listened to my heart when I let him move in with me..this was the first time I let myself 'step out of the box'...I normally keep a wall around me, but somehow he got past my radar..I do dearly love him, but emotionally, I can't take another hit like this one..thanks again for the response.

September 11, 2006
8:23 pm
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taj64
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Time is the best answer in trust. Im not so sure these type of relationships ever truly work out because people change after 30 years even if the love is there. Sometimes trust is either there or it isn't even after time. All you can do is earn it and keep it. Without trust a relationship is doomed.

September 11, 2006
8:56 pm
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honeyb
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thanks taj64 for the response.. i agree that people change.. as an adult, i've only known him as a drunk (up until the last 'almost' 4 months)..i'm not sure i know him..i've tried and tried to let go of him, but he is persistant - and of course my being co-dependant,well, you know the rest...my heart says..c'mon, give in..give him the 'another' chance he is begging for..but my head says, 'how many 'another chance' does it take? until i am so deep in depression i can never get out? until the next relapse and then the next act of abuse goes further than shoves? until life has completely passed me by and i am still alone and unhappy and angry with myself for being so weak?...its a very scary place to be...

September 12, 2006
9:27 am
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revelation
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honeyb,

I used to be a big romantic fool...all into giving everybody another chance, but nobody ever gave me another chance and i kept getting hurt, to the point where I wanted to end it all. So now, I'm still romantic, but I am no fool. Trust your gut-instinct, if he is an alcoholic and still drinks, then alcohol will ALWAYS come before you...are you willing to settle for that?

Rev.

September 12, 2006
9:32 am
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risingfromtheashes
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honeyb,

from my experiences with a practicing alcoholic and me being codependent.

They WILL be persistent.

because you take care of them - you make them feel good - you make them feel loved.

and when you ask too much of them and they feel like crap cuz they can't deliver, they hit the bottle to stop the pain and feelings of low self worth....and then you jump in to take care of them more and they feel bad again, and the cycle repeats itself.

My ex used to say to me "but I feel like you love me so much, it feels good"....but couldn't tell me what he was going to do to make it up to me, to make ME feel loved....cuz he couldn't.

practicing alcoholics (and dry drunks) are NOT emotionally available and NOT available for ANY commitment - their first love is the bottle and you won't come between that.

work on fixing your codependency....learn, grow, heal and get better.....you will see how toxic this union really is.

don't settle....you deserve someone who can match your commitment and effort.

September 12, 2006
5:53 pm
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doubleloss
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honeyb, from what i read in your post sounds like you already know the answer:

"'how many 'another chance' does it take? until i am so deep in depression i can never get out? until the next relapse and then the next act of abuse goes further than shoves? until life has completely passed me by and i am still alone and unhappy and angry with myself for being so weak?...its a very scary place to be... "

it is a terrifying place to be, but isn't it as terryging to live the rest of your life like this, it's kind of postponing the inevitable. keep posting, it helps so much to gain the strenght you need to do what is good for your heart and your head.

September 13, 2006
7:58 pm
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honeyb
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DoubleLoss, RisingFromtheAshes,Revelation..I really appreciate the posts you left..I need to be sure to clear something up, he is in recovery for just over 90 days - he did go into a treatment center and is now living in a sober living house (because I refused to let him move back in with me)I also believe he is not sincere in his sobriety. I believe he is only doing/saying what he thinks will make me let him come back. I also believe he has other mental issues besides alcoholism. It is my gut feeling that he will not stay sober. Because he has been in treatment soooo many times, he knows AA inside out, frontwards, backwards...mention something about the big book and he can tell you exactly where to find it and....quote a great deal of it verbatim...that worries me because if he KNOWS all of this..if he has truly 'owned' the tools he needs to be and stay sober, then how come he was drunk within 1 week of his moving here? He says because it was such a joyous occasion he was sure he could handle or control it..the disease took over...I have a really hard time buying that, because I told him before he came here that I would not tolerate drinking. So that must mean he didnt think too much of the relationship to begin with. I feel sure that he really thought he had found a place to live in his bottle and someone (me) to take care of him for the rest of his life regardless of the financial, emotional, spiritual cost to me..ok..sorry, I've started to ramble..I've just had a 'not great day' because of him. I had my phone number changed because he was calling me up to 50 times per day (no joke)- you never know what's going to happen when you answer either..so now he calls my work because he knows I work in a busy office with a few looky-lou's listening in and taking notes-no matter how many times I tell him I want out of the relationship, he refuses to acknowledge it..he keeps telling his family that we are still a couple and 'working' on rebuilding the relationship!! I've tried to explain to him that when he says I am 'the love of his life', all I can think of are the mean and nasty things he has said to me from those very lips....I dont think that can be blamed on 'the disease' even if he was drunk when he said them..... needless to say..sometimes I feel like I am losing my mind..thanks for letting me get a little bit of this off my chest.. I appreciate you

September 13, 2006
8:10 pm
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honeyb
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September 13, 2006
8:20 pm
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elizabeth anne
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honeyb

You gave him an inch and he wanted to be a ruler...Perhaps you are his out... and perhaps he has been burned by to many people that saw him for who he was. He may have felt I will do rehab to appease her,then once we are together it will be alright and perhaps I can continue my addiction, with someone that is willing to take me in... Might sound harsh,, but I know people that this has happened to.. And they always get sucked in....

September 13, 2006
10:18 pm
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honeyb
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Thanks for the response elizabeth anne! Unfortunately, I am afraid you are right. His mother and grandmother have both told me he has done so much damage with his alcoholism to his family, none of them are willing to help him anymore. It really hurts to feel this stupid as I do. I always thought of myself as reasonably intelligent..I guess I wanted a fairy tale ending. Thanks again. honeyb

September 14, 2006
2:36 am
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doubleloss
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honeyb, how are you? my ex has been sober for 10 years, knows AA inside out, it's a fantastic talker and he seems so in tune with himself (big reason why i fell in love with him), but his words fall on empty as he doesn't apply them to his relationships, at least the one with me. He has a daughter that he rarely keeps in touch with, I met some friends but they are more acquaintances. It's sad, because if he actually lived by his words... i've been learning a lot about alcoholics that don't do the grunt work of getting to their "root issues", almost impossible for them to have true intimacy and healthy relationships. I hope you find peace with whatever you decide to do. (((honeyb))))

September 14, 2006
7:23 pm
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honeyb
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doubleloss, you are such a sweetheart..thank you!
I've had another really hard day-because of him. he keeps calling my office badgering me. I guess it wouldn't be difficult if I didn't love him?? I don't know...he doesn't listen to what I am saying. All that matters to him is that he is not drinking right now - and I do not minimize that, but the violations against me do not go away because he didnt drink today. I have still been wounded beyond words..I still deserve to be healed. He says that I should recognize that he is trying to make the relationship work--I do recognize that he constantly wants to be with me--but he is obsessed. It's like he substituted me for alcohol. Sound silly? He says I am just looking for any excuse to push him out of my life. But do I need an excuse? Do I need permission to decide who will and will not be 'allowed' in my life? Isn't it up to me to decide if and when I forgive? I may never be able to let go of the things that happened to me. He says he wants to take care of me-but he can't take care of himself..I don't like to sound mean. I just wish I could crawl into an 'invisible' place. I don't know how to stop the hurting. I know that emotionally, I am not good for him either. But he is the one that picked up the alcohol, not me....is it wrong for me to be tired of hearing that it's a 'disease'?

September 14, 2006
8:11 pm
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honeyb
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September 15, 2006
7:40 pm
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honeyb
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September 15, 2006
8:26 pm
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doubleloss
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honey.
gosh, i don't know what to say except that unfortunatelly i understand some of what you are saying. my xbf concentrates too much on his challenge of being an alcoholic and to me it seems that he only sees his pain. sometimes i got the feeling that he thought that because he's had it really rough is like he got some kind of privilege to only talk about himself and his problems and that he has the "truth" in his mouth. Though, to his credit, he also knows how to really listen when he wants to. He's very thoughtful and seems to have special insight on things.
I don't quite understand (still) the concept of alcoholism being a disease, because i think well, it's self induced, it's not like a brain tumor that grows without you knowing. xbf explained that it was a mental issue because everytime you get drunk and feel horrible the next day it should be enought not to drink more; but they do it again, like continually puttin a hand on a hot stove. OK, that is NOT sane, if you know it hurts, you don't do it. But that is the "sane" person, not the "sick"person talking. I was trying to understand, or grasp the concept.

anyway, he was extremely cruel when the dumped me, it was like a different person came out of him. his behaviour hurt me soooooooo deep it's hard. if you know you don't want to be with him -for whatever reason- let it go, do yourself a favour. be gentle with him though. Don't wait for him to cruelly dump you. He's already shown that he can be cruel (you don't mention specifics, but the word is there..), don't let him manipulate you into staying, and don't feel bad about saying that he can't take care of you if he can't take care of himself, that it's just the plain truth.
I'm sure he would love to take care of you, but it sounds like the reality is something else. Hope you are well.

September 15, 2006
10:04 pm
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Thanks Rev,

I once again needed to hear your words of wisdom. You are right!

I will no longer settle to be with someone who has an addiction. Somehow both are trapped.

littlespirit

September 16, 2006
5:12 pm
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honeyb
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I appreciate the responses from everyone..I spoke with him yesterday, in fact, I saw him..I have to admit, he looks great...I haven't seen his blue eyes for 30 years-they are blue again! he no longer has 'the smell' about his skin..the things he was saying even made sense.....I felt hopeful, but there is still apart of me that says it's not for real-just a ruse to lull me into a false sense of 'safety' and 'security', you know-give me the warm fuzzies - so that I will allow him back in.........

September 16, 2006
5:48 pm
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doubleloss
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hi honeyb. oohhhh, those great looking guys with deep blue eyes...mmhhh...sounds like my xbf. the temptation, the hopes, the longing and wishing. i understand. it sounds as if you are really considering allowing him back.

i was given a suggestion by StronginHim while going through the aftermath of being dumped, she suggested to write ALL the big/medium/things that he said or did that upseted me, that were cruel, manipulative, insulting etc. keep that list close to you and read it when those warm fuzzies start to show, to keep things in perspective. Will help you make the right decision for yourself, remembering all the things that push you to not want to be with him anymore in the first place. good luck. take care.

September 16, 2006
6:11 pm
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elizabeth anne
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honeyb

Go with your gut instincts... It is so easy to get drawn in to someone you love... You are lucky you recognize it... I was to naive and co-dependent to think otherwise...

Addictions are not always about alcohol, it can carry over into a relationship addiction as well, knowing you don/t want to be with him, drives the addiction even further. The draw is exciting, hopeful.... What happens when you allow him back in... What has changed... How will it be 3 months from now... Will he get to comfortable or does he realize the difference now... All questions that warrent some kind of caution...

September 16, 2006
6:30 pm
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honeyb
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thanks doubleloss and elizabeth anne,
the only things I know for sure is that he is the only man that I have enjoyed 'doing his laundry'..cooking with him, yes with him..watching tv with..you know, I lost my mother(my dear best friend), my dad, and 2 mentally/physically handicapped brothers that I loved with all of my heart and was diagnosed with cancer-in that order within a 5 year period..let me tell you, I nearly lost my mind, and my already troubled spirit was beaten down just that much more..I stopped feeling for anyone or anything..holidays? forget it-as far as I was concerned, they no longer mattered or existed..I was only concentrating on getting out of bed each day and concentrating on going through the motions of living..this man, even though he did some terrible things to me..gave me back my feelings (even bad ones)..last Halloween we had such a blast decorating and making a kind of 'spook house' for the neighborhood kids!! what great fun we had...Thanksgiving! oh my..we gave thanks for each other..Christmas, we decorated anything and everything - even our 2 cats! when it comes to this kind of thing, he is so young at heart..such enthusiasm..it lifts me! we both laugh at things no one else understands....I don't know if I can ever be happy without him in my life........I'm 45 years old, but he gave me a promise ring last summer to get back some of what we were denied as teenagers!!!!

I know, I know...you can't trust an addict.......but he knows, all he has to do is call me 'baby'....push my hair back from my face............
my gut tells me, I am going to get crushed again, and I don't know how to stop myself......if I sound messed up, it's cause I am....

September 16, 2006
7:20 pm
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StronginHim77
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honey -

No. You spoke the Truth. You CANNOT trust an addict. I, too, love an addict. My ex-fiance is an alcoholic. He would become tense, moody, irritable, abusive and enraged when he drank. And he drank EVERY SINGLE DAY. He had to make a choice. I see that now, looking back. Live a clean life with me...or return to his nightly bar-hopping (which he has done for over 45 years, despite the irrevocable damage to his health). He is -- literally -- drinking himself to death. And he chose to dump me, instead of reaching for a new life. His choice. He is an addict, so I should not have been surprised.

They cannot LOVE. That is the big problem. They can "need." They can "project" loving us. But they cannot truly LOVE us. Cannot meet our emotional needs. We can never be emotionally safe with them because they will always let us down, hurt us, abandon us. THEY ARE ADDICTS.

I would share with you from the heart: leave him now. Save yourself years and years of ever-increasing pain. Better to face the pain of leaving him and get it over with, then to be dragged down an endless path of continual disapointment, anguish and suffering.

Cut your losses and leave.

- Strong

P.S. Then you can begin to heal.

September 16, 2006
11:09 pm
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honeyb
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Thank you StronginHim,

I've waited my whole life for real love..I know in my heart I do love him..but I feel in my gut he will start drinking again..yes, he says he is strong in his recovery program..today..but I do worry about in a few months, a year..I don't know how to let go of someone I want so much..

September 17, 2006
2:19 am
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doubleloss
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oh honey, i so understand you. you'll make your own decision, you'll deal with the consequences and be sure we'll be here to support you.

I would highly recommend the book "Why does he do that?" by Dr. Lundy Bancroft. the insights are incredible and he makes it clear that ABUSE is very different from addiction. There are abusive people that are not addicts, and there are addicts that are not abusive. The alcohol problem is a big one, but the abusive behaviour a worse one.

It's weird how we know we are going to do something that will wound us and we are still willing to try, so when it comes to that, then you have to go for it, give your best and then if it doesn't work out, find the strenght from somewhere to heal, learn the lesson and move on.
why do we make our lifes so bloody complicated? perhaps it's just what we need to go through in order to grow and learn. All my prayers to you. Keep posting. Take care. double.

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