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Apparently I am "disturbed" and a disturbed person
February 12, 2007
5:06 pm
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bevdee
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Because when a bunch of characters are run - like those question marks, it - I don't know what it is called, but it changes the format or something.

February 12, 2007
5:29 pm
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doubledilemma
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Loralei

Thanks for understanding...I feel awful about the "vulgar mouth" thing, but I imagine that is what it is like for the women who he is with. I think about it all the time for anyone who he is with. It is torture. I don't know what it is like to be in prison or to have a life sentence from a disease or to endure abuse, but this is torture. Torture so bad, I want to take my life.

Honestly, I want to take my life, just to end this pain. Because I know that no matter how much I forgive him or forget what I did as a huge mistake (as you said an unforgivable one in the sense of never having a second chance), it will be torture knowing he is having a good time with someone, or worse, loving them too. What is the point? No-one can replace him, the way he looks, the impact he had. There will never be a subsititute.

No-one could forgive me, truly forgive me and allow me to feel better about myself, but him. But he doesn't want to do that. I feel as if I have been given some ultimatum in life. Either to live with this torture, which will never end, as he does not care or understand and it is not his fault, nor his responsibility for it to end, or to end my own life or disrupt my brain chemistry so much that I no longer care about him or anything.

What turnabout said, is the "first death" I must go through. I convince myself that the site is fun. That is don't care that I see his handle pop up sometimes in my friend network among the inactive members. I convince myself that I don't care he doesn't read my blog. I convince myself that it is good venting, that I don't care about all the sex some sexy woman on the site is having and the men cooing and fawning all over her. I convince myself that there are people on there that care. People have actually MADE real friends on there. People they telephone, skype with, webcam with (not just sexually) and so I feel pissed off. I have met some people of both sexes from the site who I would love to know in real life, but something prevents it. The geography, the trust issues, it is so hard. It never gets beyone a few instant message chats if I am lucky and that's it. A woman on there, an Australian woman who is a psych* of some sort, met her third husband there would you believe (Ok, the first one died, the second one pissed off with a backpacker or similar)and she is happily married t an American and he left the U.S. to be with her and her two children!

I have not made friends on there and when I write my blog, in which I admit I do use confrotational and vulgar language, I get few readers because I have been told I take issue with everything and everybody. People who seem to care then disappear. But there are people who are curious. I think they might just read it as if you read a gossip magazine to find out what is the latest misfortune with some movie or TV star. IT was the psych lady who said no-one reads my blog because she thought I was "disturbed". But I respect her, because she gave me a piece of Golden Advice, which I would like to share, but which is too late for me now...

"IF YOU GO LOOKING FOR LOVE, YOU WILL FIND IT, EVEN IF IT ISN'T THERE..."

That is exactly what I was looking for in David in Dec. 2004 when I joined that site. I even admitted I love him or wanted to love him. He knew that before I blew up at him, yet he played the game until I put a foot wrong, sent him an email in February 2005 he did not like the one he termed "aggressive", but not until he got his ego stroked and then said, enough is enough. I have to lose this woman, but he did it politely to his credit. So instead of just leaving it or apologising for the inappropriateness of the email succinctly, what do I do, send him what he termed an "obsessive" email. Not a romantic or lovely one, but with all my emotion and passion invested and he just called it "obsessive". I cried my eyes out while typing it and told him so in that email. IT meant NOTHING. There was NO response. Even in that July, after he had time to reflect on it while responding to the phone call made on my behalf by Karolyn, all he could say was that it was obsessive. Yet, I bet if he sent that to someone he loved, or got that from someone he allowed to love him, he would not think that.

But the site, it kinda makes up for the lack of my sex life. Also, I can have a go at all the sluts or marrieds on there and especially the married men and the other men who email with their stupid one-liners who think they have a hope in hell of me being interested in them. I have no pic up on my profile anymore. It gives me a bit of power being a bit mean and shaking people up, as in my real life I don't have any responsiblity, but as turnaround says, it is like I re-live the rejection every time I log on. Occasionally, someone who knows my story on there will say or email me with something, like one guy who said "I don't know anyone who has suffered as much as you have" but then, so what. Most of them think, Get over it. I am not the first and certainly not the worst.

Yes, I relive the rejection everytime I log on. But to "kill" me, to kill the handle I joined the site with, is almost like killing a part of me. It is killing the hope, it is me admitting defeat over a sex site. That he got to me. That he won in the end because as he says in that bastardly way it was "hard for you to take". Do you know that I cannot use those words?

Those words are so painful that I never, ever tell someone that something is "hard to take". I also avoid it, because the reference has sexual connotations also. But it reminds me of him. The phrases he used in his email of July 28, 2005, I find myself avoiding or finding alternatives for. Sometimes I hate his race, I hate his surname and the clan it represents, I hate anything connected to him or that reminds me of him. I hate the part of the U.K. where he comes from and where his origins are.

Yet, I am not a person that is driven to hate, prejudice, racism or judgement, but this has brought out the worst in me. That is perhaps what I really hate.

And the fact that he said in that email that it was not his intention to deceive me or to be cruel or cold. So in real life, he may be a genuinely nice guy. He may be a real sweetheart, but I have no way and will never have a way of knowing that. But he has summed me up, of course. Yesterday, I wasted a whole day fantasising about him and how he had come to Oz and was at the airport waiting for me. I thought, better than repress it, I should just live through it, indulge it. I don't know whether it was mixing drugs, but I just was in and out of sleep.

They say in a book on unrequited love I have been reading, by Baumeister, that emotional unrequited love is the worst to get over.

I AM EXHAUSTED. I AM EXHAUSTED AND HE DOES NOT GIVE A FUCK.

February 12, 2007
5:42 pm
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doubledilemma
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Sorry, that is my fault, in my desire to emphasise something, I have widened the screen. Sorry for the discomfort folks.

Loralei hon, to divorce hubby would kill him. I don't think I could do it and expect him to be my friend, he would be so heartbroken. And if I found someone to have sex with and they did not love me and understand me like my husband does, then it would be cold comfort. I would loose that which is too important and too precious to find. As my experience with David has shown. If we are at each others' throats without even knowing each other, imagine how much harder it is in real life to find someone compatible who you love.

Hon, not an option at the moment, hon. Thank you Loralei.

Thank you everyone. I am sorry to be so vulgar. Just the images of him making love to women as he must be doing, is killing me.

February 12, 2007
6:01 pm
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doubledilemma
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bluegirl

Do you follow from the above? Briefly, it was an affair of the heart which ended badly for me, almost two years ago, but which I have been unable to move on from and for which I bear alot of anger and resentment towards the man for. It happened around this time two years ago, it was only ONLINE as well. I was unwell and not rational, as it triggered mania, as well as me being rather sexually naive and stumbled across a sex site and kinda fell head over heels for a man in the UK, when I live in Australia. But they say that when you are head-over-heels, it is a madness, anyway. His last email to me, which I only got because I found an online female friend living in NZ who called him on my behalf (at his UK work) was extremely painful and final and I am still on this site and reminded of that pain.

I have been married for 16 years. I love my husband too, but I fantasise and am passionate about this man, but he does not care or spare one thought for me. He cut off all contact in July 2005 and while I sent two emails by way of explanation for my behaviour to him in November 2005, neither of them were replied to.

Thank you for your concern bluegirl, that is very nice of you and I hope that sums it up a bit?

D_D

February 12, 2007
6:28 pm
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doubledilemma
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Another apology to everyone...it seems as if very few of you either suffer from or understand what it is like to suffer from Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. Hence, statements given to others implying they are "great", and will meet someone "great" when they are finished grieving (and have faced their dependency/co-dependency issues) will happen.

I think what some of you don't understand that for the OCD sufferer, statements like these are actually repugnant to me, because it is not what I want to hear, it is not what I believe. The OCD sufferer believes that they will always suffer due to the loss of the love object, not that a better one will come and fill their place. I am depersonalising, but that is exactly how I feel. Call it crazy, but it does happen and has happened in history. I wish I wasn't. I don't know what it is like to live life "on the other side" and be free of obsessions with things or people.

I guess it does happen because otherwise people would never get over someone who they loved and find love again. Or people would not even be thinking in the aftermath of a rejection that they will find someone else. That is why David's comment "either patch up your existing relationship or find yourself a new one" just shows that like him, the majority of people love, but that for them, love can be short-lived. I don't understand that at all. His comment shows he does not understand that either because he just expects I can throw away what I feel for him and if my hubby and I aren't happy, I will find someone else.

In fact, I think with utmost and due respect to all your comments, none of you understand what it is like to have incurable OCD.

What also I don't understand is how someone who suffers doesn't believe the genuineness of how I feel. He did not believe or understand how I felt.

What an insult!!! To say that if I can't work out things with hubby, I should find someone else.

Does anyone really know the pain of love? Does anyone who knows the pain of love really say something like that?

Is there something up top I was not born with?

February 12, 2007
6:47 pm
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taj64
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Ya know you are not the only one here that knows what it is like. You assume a lot. You don't sound like you love yourself. Also you contridict yourself constantly so it is very hard to address you on the site. You said that your husband doesn't love you, then you say your husband loves you. Then you say you don't love your husband, then you say you do. So which is it? You think everyone is out to insult you etc, but really everyone is genuinely trying to help you but you seek out to point out that nobody here understands. Well I for one do not understand. I think the advice given here is reasonable and not wacky or an insult. You are quite a difficult person and very hard to understand so maybe you are quite right about not understanding. I wish I could come up with something, so my hands are up in the air for you. Good luck, and sincerley hope you find your quest for inner peace. Love yourself first, that is the key to me.

February 12, 2007
7:04 pm
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doubledilemma
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Sorry, not trying to bump myself up, just wanting to thank everyone who I have not thanked, in case you don't think I have not read or acknowledged your posts with direct replies, like healintime, isis, Alycia, gracenotes, bevdee, turnabout as well as the regulars taj64 and Rev. I think I have acknowledged others directly or indirectly.

I am aware of Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous (SLAA) and I know it is suggested you go to six meetings, which I have not done yet.

There is a theory in psychology called Association. Unfortunately for me, anything I do, like go to SLAA meetings, another psychiatrist, the psych hospital, are somehow related to him. That if he had treated me a bit more nicely, been a bit more sensitive to my feelings and not broken contact in the way he did, I would not be having to go through all this. SO I FEEL BAD.

Then I realise that the psych on that sex site to which I belong, said that I choose my thoughts, I choose to feel bad. No-one is telling me how to feel. I wish it was that simple. SO I FEEL BAD.

Then my rational mind kicks in and says, well I am a sick person, perhaps it could have happened with someone else, and fate intervened that is happen with him then. The poor UK bugger, David had the misfortunate and fate to encounter me online. But then, fate intervenes to bring people together in love too. Then I also think, no, don't blame him. Just because he was not "kind" (a word he used to describe himself in his profile when I first saw it) to me, he probably is a kind, caring person in real life, so get over the idea that my shrinks, meds, hospitalisation has anything to do with him. BUT IT IS SO HARD TO DO THAT.

I imagine it is like if you are in an accident, but the other person was responsible, but you also had your part. You could not be but pissed off at the other person who as a result of it, put you there. Except that hopefully, your body will mend, but there is no guarantee my heart will not.

We will see, kind and wonderful ladies up there, but now I am exhausted and had better lie down for a bit.

February 12, 2007
7:23 pm
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doubledilemma
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taj, sorry hon...I did not meant to confuse you.

Yes, I do love my husband and he loves me. That has never been in dispute or question.

Hon, the love or lack of caring is from Mr UK/David, not my husband. In fact, I would not even use love in the same sentence with him. Sorry, did not mean to confuse.

Taj, the "insult" was in relation to David's email. I find it very insulting that someone who you declared your heart to months back suggests that the answer is either to patch up your existing relationship (I will concede that as being caring) or to find a new one.

The latter part of that phrase is what is insulting, it belies or indicates that the fact that I had feelings for him did not count one bit to him. That I could just remove them or discard them as easily as they came and he could dismiss them by saying "I know this is hard for you to take". Well, maybe he can, but if that is the case, good luck to him, I am sure he has a simple and happily sexually and emotionally uncomplicated life.

Wish I had been given the same "mental resources" as David obviously has, I would have had alot more "fun" in my life if I was like him.

Moreover, HE silenced me. He took the power away from me to respond by threatening me with contacting the police in the UK and Australia. I said to Karolyn (the friend who called him on my behalf), that I wanted to reply to his email, and she said I should not, even a reply to my email he could use or construe as harassment towards me and could make him flip further. To me though, that is scare tactics back at me. It is bullying, what people in power use to wield over lesser people. It is just awful. I must concede that I did find an article and managed to track down his ex-wife. I told her about going over to the UK,(this was the Monday before the call on Thursday) and she said "No, don't" and nothing more. But that he was a nice guy, but she left him due to being "emotionally unavailable" and they had not spoken in three years (when the marriage broke down).

This is what gets to me. I can't put the pieces of the puzzle about him together. We have this supposedly nice guy, who is a veritable stud and powerful lover, who women have to fall over themselves to get him to sleep with them, but who is also unemotionally unavailable, who while it was not his fault or his responsibility, treated me in a way which showed little respect, empathy or understanding, and certainly without any forgiveness, yet who stated he did not intend to deceive me or be so cold or cruel.

Someone who threatens me with calling the police and then says in the last sentence afterwards, "Look after yourself" or "Take care of yourself"

I have asked the police here in Australia, twice when I could and they basically thought it was a joke. But if he wanted to, he could have got nasty and state I was cyberstalking him and God knows what he could have initiated against me in the U.K.

I just don't get it.

I just don't get it.

Is it me, because I don't understand.

This man loves. This man was born of a woman by pain.

Does this man feel pain at all?

February 13, 2007
1:38 am
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healintime
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Hi DD,

I've just read a little of the posts above. And you're right - I think that many of us can't relate to OCD. Is there a forum? Maybe that would be a good place to get additional support/empathy.

A lot of us do understand obsessive love, however - and from everything I've read - the kind of posts that you're making (constantly re-hashing, being vivid in your imaginings of what he's doing and with whom) become self-perpetuating. It's great to vent feelings - within reason. And yes - after a while it becomes hard to read - so I think people will either want to scroll down, or log out. It's not a rejection of you - nor is the feedback on the sex site. It's just that context, and content all affect how people react to what you're saying. The vulgarities... yup. Pretty vulgar. You know what I'm saying?

Two things strike me - first that for a while there you hadn't mentioned this man in your posts and you write that you were doing better over Christmas. That's important - what was going on then that you were feeling calm, and centred. Are you on a medication that you changed? Did your routime change? Did something happen in your life that has brought this back up so vividly again? Sometimes we need to be our own best detectives and try to figure out what our triggers are.

The sex site? Stop it. Stop it today. Really. You're not looking for sex - you're looking for acceptance. And the posts that talk about self-love are right. Sometimes it feels like you're writing to provoke so that people -will- reject you and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

As for the suggestion about your husband being insulting. I actually think that maybe there's more happening in your marriage than you might suggest. Are you this forthright with your husband about your feelings for thsi man? If you are, and if it doesn't bother him (deeply) - something seems to be seriously off-kilter. Sex generally is somewhat of a barometer in a relationship - if it's not happening for the two of you - maybe therapy together to figure out what's going on?

I don't know whether you're in a state of mind where any of this makes sense. I think, honestly, that you're a very intelligent lady. With a good heart. I don't think you're sick. I think that you're deeply, deeply invested in an incident that happened two years ago that was probably about an awful lot more than yoru exchange with this man. Self esteem - sense of self - sexuality - deep fear/aversion to rejection (which nobody likes, let's face it but which we can usually process) and abandonment. All of thsi has to have roots somewhere. What was going on in your life when your sexuality started to blossom? Where's the disruption? Is there one?

Finally, all of these things are best addressed with someone who is a trained professional and can really help. You'll get support here if not always complete understanding - but I really feel like there must be someone out there with a specialty who will help you unlock this. Instead of logging onto the sex site - next time you want to maybe google some keywords - hit some pshycological journals - check the abstracts and see whether you can find someone in your area who might fit the bill.

I wish you all the best and am sending thoughts and prayes your way.

Hugs,

H.

February 13, 2007
11:06 am
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Dear Double..Blue here ..gosh you have certainly caused somewhat of a ruckus here on this site. Not many know what to make of you ...and fear can really turn people away and make them run........I will not run from you

I am not afraid of you at all.

I only have a few minutes to write. I have just a few things to say to you right now....

First. You are not crazy...sounds like you have manic/depression or bilpolar disorder as we call it over in this neck of the woods. Sounds like you are in a mixed state as i often used to go through. This can be the worst ..being down and up can make a girl pretty agitated and pissed. There is some good news...meds can make this history..becoming stable is an option and for me it required me admitting myself into hospital for a little while. I have been stable now for over a year and free from your type of mania for over two.

Second. The way you are behaving, thinking and feeling is completely understandable. A few years back i behaved very very similarily to you and felt almost identical feelings. I WAS IN THIS THOUGH FOR 9 years and let me tell you it was BLACK and sick and I lived in hell!
I know your pain...please believe me when i tell you that you are not evil.You are not a bad person. You are not disturbed either. Also remember that feelings are neutral ..neither good or bad they just are......You are a good person and this is where you need to start. I remember when i got stable i felt so ashamed for how i acted out toward my ex-lover who too had left me for another woman. I did some stuff that was out of control and went beyond what is acceptable as you have done thus causing this man to retreat even more. Remember folks that are not in our head space will not understand our actions and they will be perceived as us being dangerous, stalking, etc. They have every right to feel uncomfortable even though they stepped on our souls and abandoned us. Remember these boys and any human has the right to walk away from another at any time. It may be done not in the best way and we may die a death when they do go...but it is their choice and it becomes our job to handle and cope with what we are left with...issues of abandonment and in most cases if we have lashed out and really gone overboard they will behave as any scared person will do ...like they never knew you. Again looking back this is normal and he is reacting quite status quo.......

Three. I too chose to get involved with a person who was not there for me in real life. Unavailable men give us perceived safety and in that realm our sexual selves can come out and feel so very okay and thus the ties that bind get created. i know and i understand your connection with this man..even though you never physically touched our brains cannot tell the difference and i believe you truly loved him. I actually had a one on one relationship with this man but still one of fantasy .......so i do relate. I also relate to you that although you love your husband and have a real flesh day to day relationship there it is not enough to fill you or hit the soul like ones that are in fantasy ..........I have been there...lived in those shoes..Yes it is possible to love one and be in love with another and crave that person so badly it aches and the man beside you cannot even begin to give you......this is not to say that your marriage is a lie ...it is real and has it's good points...You need to be proud that you have been with him for so long..not easy for someone who is bipolar.....You have alot of good points.

We are human...Not black and white but mostly grey. I can see why you are on a sex site. I can see why you had an emotional affair on the internet. You are human. These things happen ......you are an extremely articulate and intelligent woman that already knows the good and not so good points of getting involved in cyber space relationships...they are addictive and produce such a high that for us manic/depressives..it can send us on a spiral that can be life threatening ..as was in my case. ( I met the man I had the 9 year with off of a chat line as in those days there wasn't the internet like today)

FOUR Being bipolar is very seductive and the highs bring experiences that are unworldly and electric. I wonder if you are willing to let that go? I actually went through a grieving process as i lost much of my creativity ( I PAINT) and write ...and my sexuality totally changed......looking back now i still miss some of me..but this new healthy boundary me is much safer and sailing at an even keel has brought me a new kind of joy. My point is that you can take the steps to get out of this if you want. Medication and psychotherapy saved my life and gave me quality of life.
These are my thoughts........again I just wanted to share because i remember where i came from and it is just down the road from where you are today............

If I could I would come down and spend a week talking with you..just know you are in my thoughts and please feel free to ask me anything as i am on the other side now of hell.........

Blue

February 13, 2007
1:11 pm
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turnabout
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All of this sounds so familiar. Boy, do I remember it. I remember the feeling of white hot rage every time I imagined him making love to that girl ... the one he passed me over for b/c he was looking for someone to screw and I wasn't "available" enough. Oh no, I just loved him with all my heart, that's all. I remember the obsessive thoughts. I couldn't picture NOT clawing his eyes out if I ever saw him. I heaped all kinds of curses upon his head. I prayed for God to curse him. I knew I would regret that one day. I always believed it was wrong to hate or wish ill on anyone, but I didn't care. I wanted him to suffer the way I was suffering. I wanted him to pay. I pictured him happy in his new life with his new girlfriend, oblivious to the pain he caused me. He got what he wanted out of the deal. He got everything he wanted. I beat myself down with those thoughts. How could he deserve to be happy when he dismissed me so heartlessly? I couldn't understand it, and I couldn't reconcile it. I felt so helpless.

I reached out to him so many times trying to make it better, but he only patronized me. So I got frustrated and acted out. Finally, one day I acted out by talking to his new girlfriend. I wanted to tell her the truth about him, but she didn't want to hear it. She'd found reason enough to call me crazy, and so she did. I had poured a drink over the guy's head the first time he came around me with her. I'd keyed another guy's truck when it appeared he was going to treat me the same way. I'd become unstable and everyone knew. I'd developed a reputation, I guess, and she used it against. She hit upon my deepest fear at the time ... that people thought I was crazy.

But then, after that incident, he said something that made me feel so unbelievably cold... so misunderstood... He touched upon the other deep, dark fear I had about how I must be perceived, especially by him. He said, "You need to move on." What did he know about me to say that? How did he know what I was feeling, or what I was doing with my life? I had tried being good to him, to take responsibility for the things I had done and to make amends, and this is how he acknowledges that? By dismissing me? I was heartbroken and scared and ... just everything, all at once. I was so helpless to fix it, and all I wanted to do was fix it.

And I always said I had nothing against his girlfriend, but every time I thought of her with him, I'd feel the rage. She was the reason he couldn't reconcile with me; She was in the way. And the longer he stayed with her, the more I felt like he was saying how unimportant I was. It took me two years to completely work through that. All I wanted was his friendship back, but I couldn't even have that.

And it was so hard to drop all chance of contact with him. I held onto certain friends who weren't even treating me like a friend just b/c they were friends with him. They were my last link. What hurt most about finally letting them go was losing that connection with him. Then I found his profile on the internet... his and his girlfriend's, both. I would go look in on his life. I revisited the rejection and abandonment that way until I finally realized what I was doing and made a real effort to quit visiting their sites. And I finally let go of the last friend that could (or would) keep me connected with him only this past December... 2 1/2 years after I first felt rejected by him... and it was only then that I really felt resolved about the situation.

If you're disturbed, dd, you're not the only disturbed one. If you're obsessive, you're not the only obsessive one. Actually, a lot of people here have gone through this on some level. Details will vary a little, but it's essentially the same thing... essentially the same obsessive, angry, helpless, worthless, heartbroken feelings. I know you feel alone. I remember feeling that way, too. No one around me understood, and it was very lonely. But there are A LOT of seemingly perfectly normal people who have gone a little crazy and done some stupid or crazy things in their lives. I decided to embrace my own stint of craziness and make it sort of a personal joke. My trademark song right now is "Crazy" by Gnarls Barkley (totally ROBBED at the Grammies this week!!).

Oh, and I remember how I hated people telling me I would get over it, too,... or that I would find someone else. (I'm single.) It was sort of like an insult to the way I felt about him. Even though I was heartbroken, feeling so rejected and abandoned, I still loved him. Part of me didn't really want to move on from that. I wanted the pain to stop, but I was scared of having that love diminished or replaced. I think I was scared of what it would say about me if it happened.

I just wanted you to see that I do relate.

turn

February 14, 2007
8:47 pm
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doubledilemma
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Dear healintime, bluegirl and turnabout

Thank you so much! You don't know what your posts mean to me. If only you knew. I just wish I could hug you all, but I wouldn't stop. I wouldn't be able to stop hugging and crying. I started to cry reading your posts and I am now uncontrollably crying at them, just knowing what you have all been through and what you must all be going through, still.

IT IS THE PAIN WHICH NEVER ENDS. THE PAIN WHICH EATS AT YOU, CLAIMING YOUR MENTAL HEALTH, YOUR HEALTH,INSIDIOUSLY TAKING YOUR LIFE AWAY FROM YOU LIKE A CANCER WHICH CAN NEVER BE CURED.

THAT IS WHAT IT FEELS LIKE.

I think we are made differently. I think people like David and men like him are made differently, and there are enough women in the world who are similar in personality and traits for them to be happy. Happiness is so much more simpler for them.

I honestly don't think there is any sinister with my husband. He is just sexually repressed and afraid of his sexuality, which is why he prefers to watch pictures of beautiful young women on the net. Soft porn. That way, he gets to relive "me", over and over again. I was once the young, sexually innocent and naive young maiden he married 16 years ago and he was happy to have that and would have been happy for me to stay that way.

Years ago, in 1995 when I had my first extra-marital affair, and I discovered a cache of schoolgirl porn - harder stuff. I was offended at first but then curious about it. I guess it gave me a reason to continue with this stupid affair, which was costing me alot of energy in keeping secret and again, I was doing the suffering, not him. But to my amazement and astonishment, I got over him and today I feel absolutely nothing for him. You would not believe the euphoria and Blessed Be and thanks to God, which I have have when I got this man out of my system!! I was on a bit of a high then too and I blurted it to my niece when I was in a hotel room with her and my second cousin, in a stopover in Bangkok, high from the experience of having sex with him the day before in some room where you take working girls and pay for by the hour and high from the anticipation of flying to London, which I had dreamed of going to from middle high school.

My husband is not a sexual being. He is not sexually at ease, and it was only by chance that I discovered this site, met this UK man online and then went rampant with the high of meeting him that it happened for me. Last night we discussed it. We talked about how on Valentine's Day 2005, it was the second-worst day of our married life. I gave him a card and then said I was going to go off and have sex with other men at this club. He cried his little eyes out like he never did before. His heart had been ripped apart from this wife that he no longer knew and he was helpless to do anything about it. In my heart, I knew that I was never going to leave him or that I was going to have this man reciprocate my love, but it was the first time I felt passion, and I was uncontrollable, as you can see from the emails below, which I have faithfully reproduced, without alteration.

Hon, I don't know if I was better in December, I almost ended up in a psych clinic and one evening I got so worked up that the police sectioned me and I ended up in the psych wing of the local hospital, remember. It was going away, going on a holiday with my husband, which perked me up, because I have no reminders. I tried not to log onto the site, I was not at the dreary room with the computer where I met him (though it has been changed since then), etc.

But I thought this week would be hard, as it was this time, around Valentine's Day February 2005 when I made the fatal mistake and sent him the obsessional email that I sent David.

It is with extreme pain that I publish it here, followed by his reply...

--------------------------------

To: david
Subject: .........Me the bloody fool and dumb arse!
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:42:11 +1100

Hi David

Don't get me wrong, but my sixth/psychic sense is nearly always right!........ I could be all wrong about this, so if I am, a million apologies.......

....... The reason you have been making excuses about you being busy is that you are plainly just not interested and just wish to lose me like a hot potato - this was evidenced by you not wanting to chat to me tonite on IM when I have tried many times and probably looked bloody desperate. You just don't have the guts to tell me by email did you, so you just stringing me along until I reached breaking point or cracked outright.

How could I have been so f***in' damn stupid when it was just so plainly obvious!..... You must be laughing in hysterics (o.k., well you not a woman so you don't have a womb) but the male equivalent!!!.... you are the Clown, after all. You don't feel anything for me, do you, because you never use nice words to me, and only rarely use my name when writing emails and all I have done is try to give my heart and love to you. I can't believe what I damn idiot and bloody fool I have been. What have I done to deserve this David? What has some woman/women done to you to make you so cold?.... What does your woman/women have that you can't break away yourself from have..... I don't have?.. Clearly alot. Geez, I just can't believe it, after all I have done for you! Me clearly was taken in, hook, line and sinker. I really do hope you find what you are looking for. I can see clearly now the rain has gone.....

G

_____________________________________

HIS REPLY:-

In light of your comments it is probably best if we don't try and communicate again.

Look after yourself and I hope life gives you everything you wish for.

Take care,

David

----------------------------------

Now, for most people, that would be enough. They would think, Oh dear, I have blown it and he has sent such a nice reply and they would leave it or just apologise. Or as I did, think that there was some affection or care behind it.

So, what did I do?

I MADE THE SITUATION 100 X WORSE BY SENDING HIM THE FOLLOWING EMAIL.

A NOTE OF CAUTION:-

************************************

**** THIS EMAIL WILL REALLY MAKE YOU CRINGE, I MEAN IT WILL MAKE YOU CRINGE IN THE MOST CRINGIEST WAY YOU HAVE EVER FELT, AS IT DOES TO ME AND HAS DONE TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE HONESTLY COMMENTED ON IT.

I UNDERSTAND IF SOME OF YOU ALSO FEEL THE NEED TO JUDGE ME AND MY MORALITY, TOO.

************************************

To: david
Subject: I am genuinely deeply sorry that my last email hurt and offended you and....
Date:

David

I was very tired and emotional last night, you said you would email soon, and happened to check your profile and noted that this time you were online and was just so excited about chatting with you that I was so disappointed when you couldn't join me although I don't understand how it all works and whether you knew I was online or not? I just cried and cried when I got the message you were "unavailable" it would have been just a dream to chat to you after all this time, after all our last two and only chats, although brief, (- and I am sorry, this was all my fault as at the time it was really late here in Oz and I was really scared about M discovering us) were before Christmas!

So does this mean you...... 1) don't accept my sincere and heartfelt apologies if I did have it all wrong about you "stringing me along" and not being really interested 2) what I have said is how you genuinely feel which is that you don't feel anything 'serious' for me...?

You know David, all I wanted to do is to let me love you and only you. To be your wife someday and the mother of your children, that was my ultimate dream and fantasy which I thought would become reality if I just tried and tried and tried. G was always a 'trier' at school, she wasn't always the best, but she gave her all (O.K.,well perhaps in sport she didn't!). You stated on the AFF/passion.com website "Giving Lover Seeks Same"... I wanted to be your Giving Lover back to you... I carried your picture in the shape of a heart in a zipped compartment of my purse when I went away to Victoria (I still do) and would kiss your photo in secret 36 times every day, I could just not bear to be even further away from you that the 17,000 km I was already away from you. I would rave to total strangers about you, was just so utterly madly in love with you.... Does this mean anything?.... My ultimate dream was to meet you and sing the Delta Goodrem song "Out of the Blue" to you, which if you download the lyrics is exactly how you make me feel, and which I have been practising in my head everyday to be able to sing to you, to read you poetry, to play for you, to write messages of passionate love to you in Italian (which is my first language), to dance for you, to comfort you, to hold you, to heal any of your pain, to massage any tension away, to rock you and kiss you gently to sleep, to look gazingly and adoringly into your beautiful eyes and stroke your face and hair, to love you completely, truly, madly deeply forever and ever.....

I was just so gobsmacked when the 'cupid settings' on passion.com showed us as 100% matched, although I know you can't put too much store on that, but you just kept on popping up everytime I checked!.....You were the second person who took my interest when I joined the site on 11 December last year. What puzzles me is I just don't know why you weren't the first - I think I thought you were just too damn handsome for the likes of me or just didn't notice you or both. The first is a Welsh guy, John, who has become a really dear and good friend, but we communicate almost every day by sms even though he is busy as a cameraman working for Uni of W at S. This is what I hoped would happen with us, though I could understand your hesitancy and apprehension about starting any sort of relationship with a somewhat naive married woman, given the nature of the website as well and with someone so far away. I was chuffed when you invited me to be in your "network" of friends, thought I had won the lottery that day!

I recently checked your profile and noted you hadn't ticked the "serious relationship" box at the bottom of the first part and reasoned that part of the problem must be that you just thought me serious and you were not looking for a serious relationship at this point in your life. I just thought that if you "were into me" you would crave and seek further communication with me, regardless of the tyranny of distance and the time difference. In fact, there is a bestselling book which I would 'consult' for advice called "He's just not that into you" (a spin-off from the Sex and the City Series) and was concerned that I could spot the same 'danger' signs in our "relationship" in the relationships of the people referred to in the book, which did not auger (sp?) well for ours.

I sent you an e-card for Christmas which it appears you have never opened. I made sure it wasn't too full on so as not to scare you, and picked it because it was cute and featured cats and I know you have two cats....

For days and weeks I waited for a reply to my hotmails which I sneakily had to send you while I was away and you were on your business trip. I sent you my mobile phone number so you could sms me (I didn't think it was that expensive, even from the UK), and hoped to just get a 'wee' little message, although I kinda knew you would never sms/text me. I was so ecstatic when you changed the main photo on passion.com back to the original for me and was hoping you did that especially for me, though was not sure, just wishful thinking!. Recently, I had special photos done of me in my red & black sexy corset/lingerie for you, I had a little bear carrying a 'heart' monogrammed on each side with 'David' and 'G' which I was hoping to send you for Valentine's Day and a card which was so lovely and expressed how I felt and not too "over the top" but understood your reluctance to give me your address at this stage..... I have probably done other things, need I go on.... Do you think I am crazy? Did you think I am insincere, was that it? I would like to believe people who know me describe me as passionate, genuine, loyal, caring and generous and funny, but I don't know, I guess the passionate part has landed me in a fair bit of hot water over the years....

The other thing that bothered me is this and call me a traditionalist or old-fashioned if you like. Well, I just seemed to be chasing you and you not chasing me and I believe the boy should chase the girl and not vice-versa, that way you know if the guy is genuine or not! M (my husband) sort of 'chased' me and not vice versa. Not having had any 'real' relationships apart from him, I guess when a guy is really into a girl he chases her, after all, that is Biology and that is how it is programmed to work in our genes. Remember, I was the one that sent you that very naughty email on the passion.com email!.... Geez, I still can't believe I did that!!!

These are things I have done for you, David....do they mean anything to you?.....

You know, the day I could hear your voice or better still see you in person would just be like 'manna from heaven'. I was even thinking about what to do about what is probably my rapidly diminishing fertility...I was going to go on the progesterone-only pill (aka POP) so as not to conceive M' child, which I don't truly want...

Tears are welling down my eyes as I am writing this, the Whitney Houston song from the movie "Bodyguard" comes to mind, in fact, the more I think about it, I think you are a bit like Kevin Costner in the movie, he was her bodyguard and you are the "Guardian", after all - though I was always extremely curious to know why you picked that name for a handle!!..... the lyrics of the Whitney Houston song are just cutting me with a knife,........ if this is what you truly want. I just don't know, if it was something/somethings about me you didn't really like, or me being so far away, as you never seemed to use even the slightest hint of terms of affection I used in my emails to you, back to me. I am just so confused and distraught about why communication between us hasn't happened. I am really upset and in shock about how I could have sent you such a bloody awful email..... can't we just pretend it never happened?

I am feeling a bit dizzy atm and better go and get some coffee.

Please, David, if you can, do me the courtesy of replying to this email, as I have apologised here (and in advance) for the extreme rudeness of my former.

But whatever you decide,......"I will always love you".....(Whitney Houston)

G X

------------------------------------

PLEASE NOTE: THIS EMAIL WAS NOT REPLIED TO, AND NEITHER WERE SUBSEQUENT ONES OF A MORE "ANGRY" NATURE, IN WHICH I REVEALED I KNEW THE NAME OF HIS WIFE IN, REPLIED TO.

THE LAST EMAIL I GOT FROM HIM WAS THE "Leave Me Alone" email of July 28, 2005, which was only prompted by the fact this online friend of mine in NZ called him on my behalf to find out why I was being ignored. I published this in one of my earlier posts and so I won't re-publish it again here, unless people want to see it again in the context of the above emails.

I agree that I hash and re-hash, then I am O.K. for a while and then I hash and re-hash. It must seem to alot of you that there is nothing else going on in my life, that I would still be obsessed or as the Irish lady who he slept with, said to me in email in January of last year (2006), "...You still seem to be fixated on David. David just wants to be left alone. Leave him alone and he will think more of you." or words very similar to that effect.

I think and think, well what if it had been the other way around. I think of men who I have met, who have no impact on me whatsoever, regardless of even their handsomeness or their sexuality or whatever. Nothing and that I what I am to him. It is just hard to understand when it is happening to you. Hard to understand. I guess it is like trying to say to someone, "Oh this ice-cream flavour is completely divine and to die-for", when they find it completely indifferent, or worse, dislike it. Such is how attraction works for men and women.

I get upset with all the material available now, especially online, about "How to reclaim your lover" or "Get your lover back" or whatever. It gives people false hope. I don't know. Perhaps if there was mutual love and passion, respect and attraction initially, then this is a good strategy. I just know for me, I have often read these things and I know how well-meaning, but ultimately doomed their advice is.

I remember last year, hoping that he would email me, hoping that perhaps as my 40th birthday was approaching, he would use it as an opportunity to at least find out how I was, and being so wretched that nothing happened, I didn't even care to celebrate it. I did not have a drink with friends, or a party or anything, just another birthday. Then I remember about how on my 21st birthday I was upset at a boy at University who did not pay me attention, and so did not have a big bash then, and on my 30th birthday, I was still just happy but feeling guilty about the affair which had ended. Funny that.

But this is far worse. It is two years almost to the date, since David ended our correspondence and chats, if there were going to be any (it took a bit longer for me to find out that I had been blocked from his msn instant messenger list).

This was pure, unadulterated fear on his part, from a woman he wanted nothing more to do with. As you say, the fear overrides any care you may have for the person. He may still fear me. I don't know. That adds to the pain.

I have tried so many therapists hon, each with their own ideas that ultimately, nothing can be done for me. The only intervention is psychiatric, to get my moods and obsessiveness stablised so I can function as a normal human being, which I have not been for a long time, even before this trauma happened, according to my husband.

The pain of this trauma will never go away, especially as it was my fault. I ruined it. I have learnt my lesson, it will never happen again.

Bless you all, I am sure I have more to say, but I have to get off this computer as I have not seen my mother for days.

Thank you, Thank you so much for being such special people and tolerating me.

I am crying again now.

Goodbye.

February 14, 2007
9:00 pm
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doubledilemma
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Sorry healintime, I have to correct a comment of yours. My husband did not make an insulting comment at all. The "insulting comment" to which turnabout alludes to as she received a similar comment, was the suggestion by David in his final email to me that "either I patch up my existing relationship or find yourself a new one"

That was what I found insulting. Not so much the advice about my relationship, but that if I could not "patch up" my relationship, what I meant to him was of such little consequence that I could just dismiss my feelings for him and find someone else!! But then again, it all fits in with the "I know you find this hard to take.. and "Move on, I have" patronising comment, demonstrating his ego strength to deal with his own rejections and his confidence and personal philosophy about his own ability to find the love he wants.

There is another forum which I have posted to on unrequited love and one of the posters asked if this man had ever experienced unrequited love himself. Now, that's an interesting comment which had gone through my head, too.

I firmly believe now that Love and the experience of Love has different meanings for some people. Some people just need to feel mutually attracted sexually and then see if get on with the person for a while, make sure their personalities are easy-going and compatible and they can fall in love with another person.

Others need a deep connection of mind, body, soul and a depth of understanding and relating. There is torment, there is passion.

Others need a spiritual and mind union with a highly unusual person like themselves and the body is insignificant. Sex is just a base bodily function which is not important in the overall relationship.

I believe David is in the first category, I am in the second category and my husband is in the third. Being extremely simplistic, of course!!!

February 15, 2007
2:39 am
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turnabout
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dd, I'm so glad you seem to feel a little better understood now. I hoped you would. You openly express very intense emotions, and people get scared of their own intense emotions. They will often react in fear towards the strong, intense emotions your openess will draw up in them.

People are essentially afraid of themselves. Wouldn't you say that's true? Aren't you right now afraid of yourself?

So, even if they've experienced the same feelings, it's hard for them to look at it. Most people don't want to look at that part of themselves.

Italian is your original language? Fascinating!!

I can't post at length right now, but with the added detail to your story, I still relate to how you felt in sending those e-mails. I can draw correlations between them and what I remember going through.

February 15, 2007
12:15 pm
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bluegirl
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firstly..my dog has hiccups..a jack russel and it is so cute..k i bet i made you smile girls.

Well double..again when reading your posts I do not see madness in the sense of sociopath or psychopath honestly nothing in the words that you gave to David are cringy....

You are going to have to accept the fact that most likely you have a brilliant mind and with the brilliance also comes thinking too deep and too much

Also you have a depth that men may find intimidating and run from. YOU FEEL ..I mean really feel from the soul and you are in touch with darkness..boys well, most anyway are afraid of the dark

I am wondering if you would benefit from painting, drawing or writing your feelings....I bet you would make masterpieces...Your self esteem would rise as mine has from my work
WHY because in ART feelings are all ok and there is no judgement

I see unrequitted love turned obssesive love and off the rails into some stuff that looking in retrospect you probably are saying shit not a good choice..went overboard
and now they have the wrong impression of me

For me my behaviour....not only scared them but scared the beejesus out of me. Holy I did that? At the moment of doing it i felt justified and seeking of the truth. Trying to solve a puzzle almost like a private investigator that was going to get clarity on what this man was up to and really like because i felt like a victim and that i had been had so to speak..(He left me without a trace for six months at a time with no way to reach him...not fun)

So all of my research as i used to call it well
EEEEEK that pretty much backfired as he went on with his life after i had so called found him out and i was the one that almost ended my life. Not a bright move. This would repeat itself over the years and I spent countless time and energy spying, researching and delving into his secret life ...
ROCKBOTTOM BEHAVIOUR produces SHAME and lowers self esteen and wears out the SPIRIT....

IT HURTS US AS HUMANS and those we abuse....yes we abuse when we lash out

Yes Double i found out.....i found out lots. But even in the finding out of details there comes no peace as i can see in your situation as well

I contacted his wife..showed up on her doorstep as a matter of fact...I also found out a series of other women he was with and also met up with a few. Not pretty and certainly not with the results I intended. These girls were in denial and many of them were so rapped in his web they lied for him. Wife still's with him for financial reasons and comfort. One of his girlfriends has been with him for 5 years and no sign of her ever leaving.

So yes i found out who he was...a rat. He shares himself with everyone but no one as he is a sociopath. However having said that...it still doesn't exscuse me for my behavoiur regardless of his lies and cheating and carrying on. At times he was verbally abusive etc. still there are lines that keep us civil ..and i have to live with what i did. Now...I do go gently on myself and recognize i was not being treated at the time..and have worked very hard to forgive myself. I no longer live with the shame.

I also no longer have sex with strange men. Again..not letting anyone use me or use anyone to get high. Only healthy stuff goes in or out of my body these days

I am single and have not had sex since Dec 23rd,,,the last time i saw the sociopath..and ended it then...I will date but with huge boundaries and will only have a monogonamous relationship..as when I get more than that into the mix it is only self harming for me

I stay off the sex sites but am on a dating website. Really picky who i write to and i will not instant message. It needs to go live meaning it needs to be real and i need to hear a voice and it to progress if safe to do so into meeting for a coffee. WHY? Because i recocgnize that fantasy land doesn't serve me although it feels good at the moment. I wonder Double if this could be a step for you......let go of everything on the internet...SHUT yourself down for say one month and see how you feel..literally shut the computer off...It would turn your focus on you..and i think you may begin to heal......

Just some thoughts for you

I have in my very darkest days found comfort in Martha Wainrights's CD called Bloody Mother F*%#'n Asshole and also Tori Amos CD's specifically Little Earthquakes and Boys for Pele..It helped me get all of my anger out towards men in a safe venue. I hope they help

Blue

February 15, 2007
1:36 pm
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Loralei
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DD,

Bluegirl gave you some excellent advice. I think a break from that dating site where you met David is in order. In fact, you should totally delete your profile there. By maintaining that profile, you are in a sense keeping that very hurt and obsessed persona alive. This is part of NO CONTACT.

If you ever decide to try dating again, I agree with Bluegirl that the relationship should be in person and on the telephone with very limited internet communication. It is no substitute for the real thing. I think that is the biggest reason you fell so hard for David. Since you didn't have the opportunity to actually meet him and spend time with him, you never got a chance to see the "real" man. You never saw his flaws and weaknesses that would allow you to realize he wasn't Mr Perfect afterall. It's a lot easier to give up a "regular" man than it is to give up what you think is a perfect man. You fell in love with the man you idealized and dreamed up. He never existed in reality, only in your imagination. So that is the danger of not having an in person relationship.

February 15, 2007
2:45 pm
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Zinnie
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Perhaps you need to pour all of this energy into your marriage? It might improve things.

That said, I agree with the above suggestion, stay away from the dating site (especially as you are married), and concentrate on your life that you have in the here and now. Not a fantasy of some screen person several continents away.

Z.

February 15, 2007
9:42 pm
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doubledilemma
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**turnabout**, yes hon, I AM afraid of myself, please read further!!

***bluegirl***, OMG....I feel like I am seeing a mirror of myself, except for the "brilliant" bit. I can assure you, I am not brilliant by any respects hon. Far from it. I got a nice letter from the university last week requesting me to "show cause" for why I should be allowed to continue in this course, given that I have not completed a course that if done it in one go, rather than subject-per-subject it would would take only 6 months. I began this course, a graduate certificate in 2003!!!! Plus, other non-related studies, I have just passed or failed in some way.

...yes, I too have been a snoop and contine to do so, but I have to stop myself. I have recently tried UK electoral roll searches and the like to find out if he really did get married like he stated in his email below. That backfired too, money down the drain as they did not reply to my repeated requests to do the search after I could not find anything. More than likely, it is too soon for it to be an online record. Then I thought, what difference does it make if he is married to the Queen of Sheba? Yes, but I see it as an integrity check. For someone who did not appear to like being lied to and who seemed to at least be honest, if not brutally so, with me, I wanted to see how far that honesty went. I emailed a guy on the net who is an investigator. After I told him I had moral qualms about wanting information, and he could have made a nice profit, he didn't even care about it. I even found some website last year with wedding photos showing his first name, and a wedding that took place about two days after that last email (re-published below), in his country of birth, but it was only a thumbprint and could not make out if it was him.

I am SO ashamed. I fantasise about him telling me he loves me, that he thinks about me. I fantasised this morning about kissing him all over and not being able to stop kissing him. It is like if I met him, I would totally lose control in a way that would scare as you say "the begeezus of out me". It would be like one of those Romance Novels that women read!! I am scared I have this un-expressed and pent-up passion for him, when in reality, he does not even think of me, and if he does, only as someone who he possibly has to be frightened of, for the rest of his life. Now, that is sad, too. Imagine being scared of this "looney Obsessed Aussie bird" who may one day decide she can't stand it any longer and go to the U.K., which I would never do and there is nothing he can do about it. Not that I would, it would remind me of the rejection and the reality of how it could actually destroy me if I did, would kick in at some time. That is why when my husband mentioned going to Ireland last night, I breathed a sigh of relief, that at least, it is not the U.K.

I don't know what it is like to have a man do this to a woman, to totally kiss and caress her, to stroke her hair, to look into her eyes and adore her, to not stop gazing at her and feel you are melting into his arms as you make love. I know a little taste I guess, from my husband and the fact that he loves me, but I don't know what it is like to have a complete mind and body feeling of such passion and love like that. When you can't stop devouring each other. I don't know what it is like, and I never will know what it is like, because the only man I feel I want to experience this with doesn't give a shit about me. Some of us will never get the chance to experience this, in this incarnation. I can find a man to cheat with perhaps and pretend, I can act it out as if it was real, but I have tried this with one guy and honestly, I just feel short changed and used. I fantasise about that and it is wrong, because he is doing this with someone else, not me. He is devouring and loving someone else, someone who is probably in all respects better for him that I am or could ever be. Someone who HE loves.

What do I do? I agree bluegirl, when I am manic, I am manic with passion and I need to channel it - if I could get my concentration span to last more than five minutes hon. I am too anxious to devote that energy to another course. I have my music, my singing and I get delusions about being a singer and making it on the stage and then that would show him what passion he has missed. Except that it would mean nothing to him. Except that my voice would need so much training now, even though I have sung in chamber choirs for the last few years.

I saw a site, an American site which is just a wealth of information for women on the net. The Cyberpaths site. I swear it is fantastic and the author is an absolute angel. I read about the sociopath and sociopathic-like men and could almost imagine David being like that, but it is just speculation. You know it would be like "To Kill a Mockingbird", the most moving book I read and movie I saw as a teenager. Everyone thought Boo Radley was this weird psycho man who raped that woman. When the truth was revealed with that absolutely moving defence by Atticus Finch (played by Gregory Peck in the movie version), he was proven to be the most gentle soul you could meet. I am crying. I would not want to make that mistake with David.

***Loralei honey, what is not fair is that he saw me, my flaws and my weaknesses, enough to "dump" me online, but revealed so little of himself. It was as if he was waiting for me to crack so he could find an excuse to dump me online. But then he counters that with his July 28, 2005 email, which I guess I will publish here (It may be useful for me to have a complete record to show a decent therapist, if I ever find one!!)in which he says below "....To me you were someone interesting from the other side of the World who I'd be happy to chat online to. "

This is his last email to me, published for the second time.

-----------------------------------

From : David
Sent : Thursday, 28 July 2005 10:00:42 PM
To :
Subject : Leave Me Alone

I've just had a conversation with your friend from New Zealand. She was very nice. You are lucky to have such good friends.

Why have I turned off my profile?
I have a girlfriend and I'm looking to get married. I'm not out to make friends.

Why don't I respond to your emails?
To be perfectly honest - You frighten me. We have exchanged half a dozen emails on general issues and suddenly the tone of your mails becomes aggressive / obsessive. To me you were someone interesting from the other side of the World who I'd be happy to chat online to. I don't have any feelings for you, I never did and I never will. I am sorry if you believe otherwise but I don't think I did anything to suggest you were in anyway special to me. I have a girlfriend who I love and who will shortly be my new wife. I would ask that you move on with the rest of your life and forget any notion of having anything to do with me - I am simply not interested. I never was and I never will be. Don't even think about coming to the UK it would be a waste of your time effort and money. If you try and contact me I will alert the police (In Australia and the UK).

Sorry if this email is rather tough for you to take. I had hoped you would have got the messaage without me having to be so cold. It was never my intention to mislead you or to be cruel. But in the current situation you need to understand that there is nothing between us. You should concentrate your efforts on patching up your existing relationship or finding another one. I intend to get on with my life I suggest you do the same. I do not expect we will be corresponding again in the future.

Look after yourself,

David

------------------------------------

So do you see, someone else can look at all the above and think, she was crazy, she was deluded and brought it upon herself.. A therapist I saw after this email told me to believe the part about him getting married. Why shouldn't I believe it? His wife said on the Monday prior to the call, he was a "nice guy" but she left him due to "emotional unavailablity" (her words) and when I suggested I would go over there, she told me not too and I assume, she would have said not to phone him, either!

I have been made to look the weird one. Even Karolyn, I don't know what to make of her words to him when she called him in the UK that evening. I cannot forget what she said to him, she repeated her words to him during the conversation that preceded the email. She said:-

"My name is Karolyn B. and I am calling from New Zealand. I am a friend of G...

He apparently acknowledged that he knew of me. Karolyn said to him,

"G is obsessed with you...... I wouldn't want her turning up at your doorstep or anything..."

David apparently replied, "Well, I don't think my girlfriend wouldn't be happy with that..."

He apparently said that I was "Very nice initially, but then agreed with Karolyn that I had "gone bananas" and I became too intense. He ended it by telling Karolyn that he hoped this conversation would not be repeated in the future and the conversation ended after some small talk.

Karolyn then IM'd me immediately and said, "Well, you know the truth, now"
and "Don't you dare reply to that email as he will get angry and you will find the police at your door".

I don't know what to make about Karolyn. She really put it to him in a brutally honest way. She also told him "Well, she has medical issues". I thought great. Now he knows I am a certified looney and he was justified in ceasing communication with me.

Except I later found out when Karolyn needed ME that she was a former heroin addict with a history of dating violent or abusive men, which I tried to get her to stop. I was there for her. I knew her history and I did not judge her. I more than compensated her for her call to David, knowing the money it cost her. I was there for her and am eternally grateful to her for making the call which I could not make. But I have lost contact with her. She told me she lost part of her finger due to having it trapped when the car door was shut, when she was mugged, very late one night when going out to get her cigarettes, and I just could not cope with it. I did not know how to deal with it while she seemed to deal with it better than me, it seemed. But I am not sure. I called the police in NZ, to see if I could find her and she was not replying to my mobile (cell phone) messages, late last year, and they would only tell me that her son was taken away from her. I feel sad. I cannot help her.

***Loralei*** dating again? What for hon, to find some sex, some sex that makes me feel a bit wanted at times, only later to then think, Oh God I have to worry about seeing another person and deal with all that? Not worth it. Without being my customary vulgar self, let's just say that "doing it for myself" is the way to go at the moment - for lots of reasons, even though I don't get all the nice emotions and warm and fuzzies that go with being with a man! The trouble with deleting myself from the site completely, is that it is a contact with a world that I cannot experience. There are some nice people to exchange ideas with on there. I learn things, it is a community, you don't feel as if you are blogging solo. But I feel as if I am under a microscope, too.

This is also what troubles me....please bear with me for a bit longer...

He has won "on the site", irrespective of his actual marital status, for these reasons:-

Prior to his last email (sent via hotmail), he had deleted his main picture and closed his profile so that it is not visible. Now, this is great for him, because one can reach various conclusions about this:-

1) He was actually in love and did get married, and would have shut his profile (not deleted) but still wanted to be on the site to chat with friends, relieve boredom online, but eventually decided that with me "around" it was done sooner rather than later. Perhaps the "naive" explanation, but this is the "benefit of the doubt" scenario.

2)He is NOT married and with me around, he knows that even if I deleted my current profile, if his profile is open that means he can receive emails, he is so scared I could email him under new profiles, and keep doing so, so it is best that it remain off PERMANENTLY so that I can't email him with a new profile.

This way, with a closed email, he can't receive, but he can initiate emails to women (which you can do with a closed profile), which gives him the privacy to do so, without me seeing that he is actively doing so.

Thus, because of ME, I feel he has not been able to keep a profile open like he could before meeting me. I basically scared him into closing his profile on the site. That makes me sad. It makes me sad, because even if I delete my profile, there is a fear I could re-emerge as a new "online reincarnation" - it seems he will never be rid of what he could term "that Aussie monster-woman". I am like the mythical Hydra who could grow more arms if I had my old ones chopped off. (As an aside, I actually learnt, or should have learnt - more like it, why some invertebrates can do this, regenerate their arms, quite interesting and the basis of neuroscience research!)

Yep, that makes me sad. Quite sad.

The other point and thought..For a guy, why on earth remarry? If a man has all these women vying for his attention, wanting to sleep with him, why limit yourself to one woman? There is a veritable smorgasbord of women out there for a single guy!!! Just see where it goes, and then if it doesn't work out, on with the next. If he wants a child, he will find some woman who is clucky enough to have his baby, and if it doesn't work out, well, he still has his baby (-ies!)

"Ezy-Peezy, Japan-eezy!!!" (No, not his cultural background...Think an "Terrier" bluegirl!!!

So, why find true love, when it is more fun not to?

Tragically sad, at cross-purposes, even.

****Zinnie, thanks for your comment about putting my "energy into my marriage", but with due respect, I think you fail to see my point or really understand.

Putting more "energy" into my marriage is not going to work. I know there is some equivalent in physics, and you could argue that our thoughts all boil down to physics in the end, if I could think of an example, I would!!

Thank you everyone. I really mean it. Thank you SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!

February 15, 2007
10:22 pm
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Zinnie
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Then why stay married to a man that though you might "like" him, you are spending all of this time and energy on?

Forgive me for my simplistic point of view, but, I do tend to break things down that way.

Also, as a person with "high functioning, low level OCD" - which is what I was diagnosed with 20 years ago - I can tell you by continuously going back and repeating the same behaviors (following his actions on this site) you are only furthering your own disease. You have to learn how to break the habits. It is hard, lord knows I know that first hand. But, with therapy, medication and my own stubborness it has been done.

February 15, 2007
11:15 pm
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doubledilemma
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Zinnie, hon, thanks...I will post a quick reply.

I stay married to him, because there is mutual love and the one thing this has taught me is that love (of the mutual, requited variety) is indeed extremely hard to find. As the psych- who is also on the sex site said, "If you go looking for love, you will find it, even if it is not there...". It gets harder as we get older. Really hard. We question and look for a lot more in a person, their qualities, as well as their looks. I guess, perhaps with my OCD, I am extremely fussy, I don't know.

I am not, nor will be in a situation where I will divorce my husband and then look for what I am missing, because as he says, I could end up missing alot more that what I am gaining! Integrity is absolutely paramount to me!

I understand what you are saying, that it is the OCD that is keeping me on the site. But I can go off it for a month. I can control it.

Oh and I found that CNN site, thank you, but not sure who suggested it. It is still up there folks and excellent. Maybe, find a basic brain anatomy atlas before, though!

February 16, 2007
12:10 am
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doubledilemma
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My other crazy thought is (and I know it sounds deranged but I would not be honest if I did not admit it) is

What if I am meant to suffer? What if it is meant by God, or whomever, that this situation, because it was too good from the start and I did not pay heed to my instincts, supposed to be my downfall?

I mean, if we do things wrong, we suffer? If we smoke, we run the risk of lung cancer? If we do something bad for us, we pay the penalty?

What if this man is thinking, well, she was stupid enough to delude herself, she only has herself to blame for her suffering and I am not to blame as I did not lead her on.

But more importantly, perhaps this is the addiction which is going to deteriorate me and spell my end. Just as surely as we all are going to die from some weakness that claims us, cancer, heart disease, dementia, stroke, this will be my downfall, my weakness, that will hasten my death, only because I am aware of this, unlike other organic disease, which I may not be aware of.

As time marches on, I am more convinced of this. That this situation, through my emotional recklessness, is going to be my demise, both mentally and in my body.

Why do I say this?

It would repeat a family pattern too. In 1974, my father and my brother had such a massive falling out that they never spoke to each other again and I had to watch and endure this cold war as an eight-year old child. When my father died, he died suddenly, so there was no opportunity for a reconciliation. My father had expectations of my brother than my brother could not and would not fulfil to please him. It was painful for my mother, but she would not stand up to my father about my brother. She was afraid of my father. IT must have killed my father and my mother, too.

So what does D_D do? Well, she finds a situation almost exactly the same with Mr UK/David. Creates a situation where she has unrealistic expectations of another person. Then that other person can't cope with the "demands", and goes away, never to speak to the other person or have anything to do with them again. Then the other person has to live with the cruelty of the "cold war" situation forever until it manifests itself physically and the person dies. Of a massive heart attack, at 70 years of age, as my father did, coupled with shame and embarrassment and humiliation. This is not the complete story, but the rest of the story is not relevant.

I can feel it. This man will be my demise. Through his lack of forgivenss and capacity to not understand.

This man WILL be my eventual demise.

February 16, 2007
10:48 am
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HI double and everyone....really need some time to read your post again double as i think i have some light to shed....want to compile my thoughts so that they are helpful

Just wanted to share a little sunshine double ...My dogs names are Scout and Boo Radley...and Atticus is my hero....that is the kind of man I look for when i date..a man with that kind of character and soul..What a story

My other favourite is A Tree grows in Brooklyn. Francie the main character is alot like i was as a child. Have you read this...it is as compelling as To Kill....

I will write soon to comment on everyone's latest input as there are some really good points being said and Double .....again I am can only speak from my stuff .....but perhaps my stuff can either support you or just maybe not feel so dang alone.....in your head

I am glad that you have come here and shared with us as you have given us a gift........back

We are all learning here ..we are all equal

Will write soon

Blue

February 18, 2007
10:46 am
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Double...once again you have been offered some great tips on how to move towards healthy living

Shut the computer off, have a monogonamus relationship.... meaning no other relationships physically or emotionally ..only with the hubbie

Go into hospital to get stabilized where you will get psychotherapy and meds that will allow you to be practically mania free with just a dash of depression from time to time

Focus on issues you and hubbie have through additional marital counselling and find out ways to become more intimate etc.

Throw your passion into something that creates beauty. Serve others. Do volunteer work. Run... Walk... get out of the house and your head and ????

Am i making you sick yet?

Probably..the last thing you need is others telling you what you should do...Why? Well, you are already self aware..meaning you know better...you know exactly the steps that you would have to take to healthier living.

Here's the dealio...i feel you are not ready yet..not willing yet to say goodbye...not willing to severe the connection that keeps this alive in your head. How do i know this ....cause i was there..

In my experience the slave(me) kept returning to her master(The boy) even after the cage door had been unlocked..acutally the entire time in the cell i had the key......it was right there in me...see what i mean?

This man does differ from your David.
After he left me the first time without a trace and i literally hunted him down..he took me back. Over the next 9 years i left him almost 100 times i bet. I went back. ME......he only left me a handful of times after the first.

This man did tell me i was his rock, love of his life and his everything, we did make mad passionate love. hell we almost set fires. We went away on weekend getaways....I got pregnant with his children and lost them. Wow..lots of real stuff thus making this a fufuilling relationship ? No

REALITY IT IS NEVER ENOUGH... when i got pregnant he abandoned me. When i had a nervous breakdown. he abandoned me. he would go missing for weeks. no explanations. he was a liar and put my health in jeopardy by having sex with dirty women. He has a secret life of drugs and the underworld including crime..big crime
What i am saying is i did get alot of what i craved for from him..like i have seen you write...wanting his child...wanting that touch....etc.

Unless you get the whole shibang...meaning a really nice kind bloke all around.... those tid bits or crumbs are never enough. I had him but not all of him. None of his women do.
RIGHT AT THIS MINUTE
I could drive to his work and see him. I could call him and have him over here by nightfall. That life is right there for the taking ...BUT...i am never going back..it is a choice...a decision...it is up to me.....i want better and am willing to stand here with nothing and wait until a healthy life starts to flow in. AND likewise it comes down to it being your choice to end this within your HEAD..to the point where you say ...i don't want this man ....not him really..if i really knew him would i even like the person he is...would we even get along...would i really want to raise our children we had..would i really want to live with this guy on a daily basis.....clean his shit stained underwear..etc.

For me after i saw my guy as a human being with oodles of flaws..practically no characters i like in a partner....i was able to take him down of the pedestal and stop worshiping him like flaming JESUS......he is not better than me ....in fact he has serious mental health issues also and leads quite a sad life. Not at all what i want as a role model for my teenage son. Do i want to live with a man who would cheat on me and leave me alone at home while he shnogged others....SEE REALITY finally set in....I lost a dream ..I lost a fantasy of what i thought was an amazing guy.

Is your David really that amazing. Honestly.......perhaps you need that person to worship...that ideal bloke to exist as it gives you hope. That is why i stayed stuck.

With you well David left you and didn't make it possible to return. He has made it impossible for you to make amends and heal. You have no contact but only the fact that you share the same website. This is the link that keeps this alive. And you are not ready to pull the plug and let this die. Well.....I am not going to tell you to do this until you have had enough of how you are living. One day you will wake up and say and feel ENOUGHS ENOUGH..it'll come..for me it took years ..for you too maybe. cause you see you are still getting a pay off for your actions......there is still some hope there as long as you stay online and also keep him alive in your HEAD.

Anyway the dealio about the suffering thingy and how you feel it is your course in life .........hogwash........right now this is your shtick ...but as human not only do we have the capacity for suffering but thank god we also have the capacity to grow learn and change or evolve. We also have free will. Meaning we hold the key so to speak. It is our birthright....we hold the key to our happiness and it is never ever in a man's hands. When you are ready to stop suffering..you will find your key...by the way it is in your heart...and open the already open door

End of story

Hugssssssss
BLUE

February 18, 2007
4:01 pm
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DD,

Please listen to bluegirl.

Since my personal experience is in so many ways similar to yours, I want to relate mine again. The only real difference is that I actually got to see my guy in person for almost a year. But it was a one-sided affair. I loved him. He never loved me. So even if you had gotten to be with David for awhile, odds are that you would have been in the same predicament I found myself. I am also married to a man I love, but it is more of a friendship. The sex is almost nonexistent these days.

Because my bf didn't want a real relationship with me and only used me for sex, we broke up last May. It has been hard on me. I still miss him. But I have spent this time trying to work on ME. Getting my head on straight. This AAC site has been very helpful, learning about codependency and that I'm not the only one who has been going thru hell. I feel like I have come really far these past months.

I am slowly finding peace within myself. But I had to get away from other men and even the idea of looking for a new lover. My focus is on me. By putting myself first and doing what is best for ME, everything is starting to fall into place. Even my marriage has slowly improved.

But you have to stay away from that online dating site. You have to stop thinking about David. Focus on other things of interest. Focus on making YOU feel good. Only you can take the first step away from the hell you are living in and towards a more peaceful life.

((((DD)))))

February 18, 2007
8:25 pm
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doubledilemma
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Thank you God, but I can't do it...I log on, hoping to find something nice to say, but I am uncontrollably crying, sitting here alone, not tending to the things I should do, because I have just logged on and written this deep and meaningful profile that will have people wondering what planet I inhabit.

I can't do it. Yes, perhaps there is a pay-off, but as with all addictions, when reality is too damn hard and too damn painful to bear, what else do I do? I can do volunteer work, I can run myself ragged with thinking of others, but this is just fooling myself too. I can run after my mother and I know that I will regret the countless thousands of hours wasted on him.

At least you ladies go to "know your men".. They might even be aware there is something wrong with them. I never got to know this man. It had ended before it had even began. Is that a blessing? I don't even know. I know that the sex addiction I used to have was because I could not face my painful reality. I am facing my painful reality, now, doing my best without it, avoiding sex with other men and while I feel heaps better for it, the reality I am faced with is not nice either. It is not nice not being able to sleep, to function, to feel as if I am in his haze of confusion and pain and no, it is not David's fault. David was only doing what David does, according to the information he had at hand. I know that.

A lady with whom I spoke to after a literature course yesterday afternoon said to me "You have a ring on your finger. You have a man who loves you. I have been single for 15 years. Do you know how many times I have craved a relationship?. Sometimes we need to look at what we have, instead of what we are missing."

Yes, indeed. Except what if he gets everything? What does that mean for me? Do I think, well, what does it matter, we are all going to the same place, we are all going to die, does it really matter what happens along the way, as long as we are good people? But I somehow can't get over the idea that if he is having this new loving wife, or sex with other women, I think, what has he done right, to deserve this, that I have done wrong? It is not as if he has worked hard for something. Then I realise how stupid that it. What did a wonderful person do to deserve to get cancer and me not??

So, it IS like a nightmare in my mind, coming to terms with it. The time is consuming me. I felt so tempted last night to wait hundreds of dollars trying to call the psychic I first called about him 2 years ago.

I need help, but it sounds as if you are abandoning me too. It sounds as if you are abandoning me, but in a different way to David. Maybe David abandoned me for my own good, he is THAT advanced in his personal development. I will never know.

I just feel so horrible. I don't want to feel this horrible anymore. God knows I don't. I shouldn't say I can't stand it, but I honestly can't anymore.

Thank you.

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